Wyeast 2112 California Lager fermented cold (49 F)

[DaveSeattle]

I have been fermenting a Premium American Lager for about a week using California Lager yeast at 9.3 C (49 F), due to bad info from my LHBS (I intended to use American Lager). Has anyone fermented this strain at true lager temps? How did it come out? The Wyeast site specifically says that this strain doesn't do well at cold temperatures, and American Lagers require a very clean fermentation, so I'm getting worried. Oddly the Wyeast site also says this strain is recommended for Premium American Lagers but not Lite or Standard ones, so I'm not sure what's going on there, though I expect they intend it to be used in the cool end of the recommended range rather than below that.

The beer had a huge krausen very quickly and has attenuated about 20 points in a week. I plan to watch it and increase the temperature if attenuation stops, but want to keep it as cool as possible to ensure a clean fermentation. I do also plan to do a diacetyl rest for 3 days at 68 F once the beer is about 75% attenuated, so that might also help address the risk of low attenuation.

Recipe and process: OG was 1.051 (13 Brix). I pitched a two-step starter (2 L decanted, then 1 L not decanted) at low krausen with massive oxygenation (pure O2 plus wine whip). Wort was at 58 F at pitching and then chilled to 49 F over about 24 hours. I pitched 12 hours after brewing, waiting for my fridge to cool it down to a reasonable pitching range. The recipe is a European-style Premium, made with pilsener malt and a high amount of hops for the style. It was actually supposed to be a Standard but it was the first run on a new RIMS system and I unexpectedly got 80% efficiency . BTW I chose this style on purpose since it allowed easy adaptation to varying efficiencies.

Back story: My LHBS didn't have the American Lager yeast I wanted and gave me California Lager instead. At first they didn't even tell me they substituted it and just handed me the yeast pack, but I noticed. I told them it was the Anchor Steam strain, meant to ferment in the 60s and not true lager temps, but they told me it wasn't and that it was just another American lager yeast strain. I believed them and I didn't double check it until well after I pitched.

I'll let you all know how it turns out. My fear is that it will lack that smooth lager character.

 

[DaveSeattle]

I also sent a contact request to White Labs to see why they say it's not recommended.

 

[giraffe]

Ive never tried it that low in the high 50's low, but not 49., but I suspect it will be clean enough. The typical problem with that strain is a lack of attenuation even at high temps. Its likely not to finish dry enough.

 

[DaveSeattle]

Here is what Wyeast said:

Hi David,

Considering the starter size and subsequent pitch rate you used, you should be OK at those lower temperatures. Due to the flocculation characteristics of this strain, we typically recommend higher temps if it is being used for lagers. Historically, this strain is used at high temperatures (ale fermentation temps) to produce steam beers. Many breweries and homebrewers though have used it successfully for lagers.

I think using the 2112 at 49 will work fine, but the fermentation could take up to a 2 weeks.

Please let me know if you have other questions.


Jess Caudill
Brewer/Microbiologist
Wyeast Laboratories, Inc.

I have a ton of US-05 sitting around, so if it doesn't attenuate fully I'll pitch some of that to get it the last mile. But usually my lagers attenuate ridiculously well so I hope not to have an issue.

 

[DaveSeattle]

Update: at 7 days and 10 Brix, fermentation seemed to slow, so I bumped the temperature to 10 C (50 F). That seemed to jumpstart things, but it's also possible I took a bad reading. After 2 more days it was down to 1.020 and ready for diacetyl rest, where it is now. Last I checked, yesterday, it was down to 1.010. So it's going to attenuate just fine. We'll see how it tastes... Though I didn't detect any off flavors in a sample.

 

[DaveSeattle]

It attenuated all the way down to 4.5 Plato, roughly 1.005. That's some ridiculous attenuation, though I may have again taken a bad sample (the way to take samples in my fermenter is awkward). Lagering now and will probably get it in a keg in a few weeks.

 

[ong]

I'm planning to ferment this yeast cold (well, around 52-ish), since I've read that some commercial breweries are using it that way. I built up a 1 gallon starter, and just decanted -- wow, even the unhopped, decanted starter is really excellent! I found myself drinking a whole cup of it. Excited to try this guy in an IPL.

I'm running it cold both to get a very clean, crisp finish, but also because I'm doing a bock with Munich Lager yeast at the same time. Both will be the first lagers I've brewed, after lots and lots of ales.

 

[DaveSeattle]

Great! My sample of my American lager was also very good, though I only got a few drops of it ��. Congratulations on your first lagers - you won't regret it. Note that if you dry hop the IPL extraction times will be significantly greater in the cold environment.

 

[ong]

Thanks! I was going to keg hop rather than hop during the lagering stage.

 

[DaveSeattle]

Just kegged this up and it is fantastic. Still needs a couple weeks of lagering to really smooth out, but the beer has a super clean, crisp finish with a nice subtle malty character. No diacetyl, no perceptible defects. There is some sweetness from the corn and possibly a bit of fruit character but it's so subtle I can't really say it's there at all (I plan to get a second opinion on that). So in conclusion, you can definitely use Cal Lager just like a lager yeast and it will work great, at least if you use proper yeast management practices as I did.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

I am glad I ran across this thread. Thanks for the info. I know the thread is a little old but I do have a couple questions. This is my first Lager.

I pitched a batch of dead 2035 Wyeast American Lager Sunday. I got it at my LHBS Saturday. It never swelled and after I pitched it, I noticed the date was 8 months old. Nothing happened for 3 days.

I went to the LHBS for unexpired yeast and the only in stock Wyeast Lager yeast they had for exchange was 2112 (they stood behind their product). Not realizing the higher temp range requirement, I smacked the pack to pitch later. After I did this I found out the higher range and was a little disappointed that I couldn't ferment cold (again this is my first lager). I am still fermenting it at the low end of the range at around 58 F. But it is starting out real slow, not much activity after 36 hours.

Did you use a secondary after the rest, or is that what you are doing when you are lagering? I am not in a hurry and would still like to secondary at lager temps ~35 F for a few weeks. Is that what I should do with this yeast?

I am a little confused about the temp ranges they give and what they mean for different parts of the process. Is there a difference with the fermentation temps vs lagering temps. Can I ferment at around 55-60F and then lager at 35F when the yeast activity has stopped after a couple weeks?

Also, my kegs are full so I plan on bottling this. Would you suggest adding some yeast at that time? I have a bunch of washed yeast on hand.

One more thing. I got real good efficiency on this batch ~80%. I had a RIMS system, running the whole time for a step mash. Consequently I had a couple gallons extra wort and still hit my gravity on the head. So, I pitched some ale yeast into it. I am planning on a comparison later. That's why I am a little disappointed that this is kind of a pseudo lager. I wanted a good comparison to decide if it is really worth it to go through the extra time involved.

 

[DaveSeattle]

You can definitely ferment this yeast cold. I did and it worked fine. It needs a little TLC to do its best work at cold temperatures (big pitch, good aeration) but it worked great for me, just like a normal lager yeast. If you just pitched a smack pack, you're going to see a slow start, maybe less attenuation than desired, and more esters. I did a diacetyl rest, ramping to 68 degrees for 3 days, and have no diacetyl in my finished brew. I racked off the yeast and lagered at 38 for a couple weeks before kegging. The beer did improve over time as I dispensed it.

The end result of my fermentation is described in my previous message - it does have some fruity notes and therefore isn't 100% to style in the Light Lager category, but it is a freakin fantastic beer. My craft beer purist friends scoffed at it, then loved it.

You shouldn't need to add yeast at bottling time unless you cold condition for a very long time (many months). By the time the yeast is done fermenting you should have plenty of healthy yeast to bottle condition. Lager yeast remains active at cold temperatures and will carbonate your bottles just fine.

Did you adjust your hops to the extra volume? If not, your bitterness and hop flavor/aroma will be too low. Otherwise, sounds like an interesting experiment! The difference between ales and lagers is definitely perceptible to me, but many lager malt bills have an equivalent historical style made with ale yeast, so usually you'll make a fine beer by using ale yeast.

 

[skw]

I've used 2112 cold twice. It certainly works, but I wouldn't use it as a substitute for a "normal" lager yeast. Compared to other lager yeasts that I've tried, it has a distinct own twang that I can't quite put my finger on.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

It is now starting to move a bit. SG has gone down .015 pts in 2 days @ 58f.

I didn't add any additional hops, although I probably should have. I didn't expect there to be so much wort left. I followed Beersmith and thought I had my equipment profiles set right. I was a little surprise I had so much left after a good 60 minute boil. Since my SG was right where it was supposed to be, I went with it because it meant more beer. I really got some real good efficiency with a continuous RIMs recirculation.

This is only the 6th or 7th time I have brewed on a new electric brewery setup I built this Winter and I am still working things out. Once I have things smoothed out it should be more consistent.

Maybe I'll throw in a few aroma hops at the rest for 3 or 4 days before I lager. It only had 2 oz total (1oz at beginning 1oz at FO) to begin with so maybe a 1/4 - 1/2 oz or so wouldn't hurt. It is not supposed to be a real hoppy beer (It is a Yeungling-ish clone).

 

[bolus14]

I just picked up a pack of 2112 to make an Anderson Valley Winter Solstice clone and plan to ferment around 60-62. My question is how big of a start do i need to go with? Estimated OG is 1.069 with planned FG at 1.019. I know lager strains need a higher pitching rate but Mr. Malty seems really high on what's required. The smack pack is from 5/14/15 so a little old, Mr Malty calculator shows needing to use 2 smack packs and 2.62 liters of starter to get to 250 billion cells.

My plan is to do a stepped starter, basically do a 1.5L or 2L starter, put in the fridge, decant after yeast settles, then another 2L starter, put in the fridge, decant and pitch on brew day. How can i figure out if this route will give me enough yeast?

 

[DaveSeattle]

That plan will be just fine, and if you have time to do the stepped starter like that, it's the most efficient way to do it. You could also put all the starter volume in one container, but it'll be less effective. Do you have a stir plate or aeration method? There is a stepped starter calculator out there if you spend some time looking, but I forget where or who made it. BrauKaiser maybe?

Two things to keep in mind about the MrMalty calculator:
1. Its viability calculations are questionable past a month or so, and downright wrong for old yeast. I would set the viability manually to something that seems reasonable. Viability varies wildly in practice, and having too much yeast is far far better than having too little, so the calculators all err on the side of recommending too much. Not many (any?) studies have even been done on yeast older than a couple months in homebrew conditions because nobody except cheap homebrewers uses yeast that old .
2. Jamil (MrMalty) is trying to make the best possible beer, all else be damned, and the calculator reflects that. There is no provision for your convenience . That's also why it says you need two smack packs.
So taking both of those into account, you can usually safely underpitch the calculator's values. This assumes you're doing everything else right, i.e. aerating properly, pitching cold, and controlling fermentation temperatures. As you cut back in any of those areas, you start to get more undesirable yeast off flavors. Winter Solstice should be a fairly tolerant beer for the off flavors 2112 is going to tend towards, so you should be alright with a fairly minor underpitch, as compared to a light American lager or Kolsch where there's a lot less going on to hide any defects. Obviously that's not an excuse to screw up, just comfort that if you do slightly underpitch, it probably won't be noticeable.

 

[bolus14]

Sounds good. I did find a different calculator, maybe brewers friend or brewdad, can't remember now, that showed doing a a 2L starter then a 3L starter will give me enough to pitch. I was planning to brew this weekend hut because of going with a lager yeast instead of an ale strain I'm waiting till next weekend.

I'll be using the occasionally shake method, working on building my own stir plate but that's not ready yet so...

I also agree that any off flavors should get hidden by the caramel malts and vanilla in this beer so if my pitch rate is low I think it will be fine. The rest of my process is pretty sound, fermentation temps may fluctuate a little due to where I have to ferment but no more than a couple degrees usually.

 

[bolus14]

Here's my 3L starter after decanting and shaking to get all the settles yeast back in suspension, this was about 10 min after shaking.

View attachment 1439720600103.jpg

 

[bolus14]

So, getting back to the original topic. I decided to pitch at 55 degrees. I don't have the means to hold the temps below 60ish so I figured I would pitch below that and let it rise to the low 60s and hold it there.

I had a bubble ever 2 or 3 seconds 10 hrs after pitching and temp was at 58.

 

[dmick]

Hey Dave,

Flash forward to August of 2018 and this post helped ease my anxiety. Without doing any research, I swapped out a German/Bohemian Lager Yeast for the California 2112 Wyeast at the last second. I'm brewing a Schwarzbier for the next round of our club competition and wanted to make more of a New Belgium 1554 and after some hasty research, I swapped my hop bill for EKG and the swapped yeast. I pitched just a few hours ago and thought I should maybe look at what I just did.

I'm happy to know that I'll be alright! I threw 2-smackpacks into a 2L starter. Can't wait to see how this turns out. I've been doing lagers for a few years now and love them, but having two small kids really kills any spare time for brewing or just having a clear, uninterrupted thought.

Cheers and Thank You for sharing the notes from Wyeast Dave!
-Mick

 

[TNJake]

Hey Dave,

Flash forward to August of 2018 and this post helped ease my anxiety. Without doing any research, I swapped out a German/Bohemian Lager Yeast for the California 2112 Wyeast at the last second. I'm brewing a Schwarzbier for the next round of our club competition and wanted to make more of a New Belgium 1554 and after some hasty research, I swapped my hop bill for EKG and the swapped yeast. I pitched just a few hours ago and thought I should maybe look at what I just did.

I'm happy to know that I'll be alright! I threw 2-smackpacks into a 2L starter. Can't wait to see how this turns out. I've been doing lagers for a few years now and love them, but having two small kids really kills any spare time for brewing or just having a clear, uninterrupted thought.

Cheers and Thank You for sharing the notes from Wyeast Dave!
-Mick

I love 1554! How was the turnout?