WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[sweetcell]

Alright, round two. Tell me what y'all think for this.
Brett Trois IPA - 3.0 gal
OG: 1.061
IBU: 57.0
SRM: 5.1
75% efficiency

4 lbs 2-row 60.4%
2 lbs White Wheat 30.2%
8.0 oz Golden Naked Oats 7.5%
4.0 oz Acidulated Malt 1.9%

8g Columbus (14.0%) FWH 60 min
10g Pacific Jade (14.4%) 10 min
10g Motueka (6.7%) 5 min
10g Nelson Sauvin (12.5%) 5 min
10g Pacific Jade 5 min
10g Motueka 0 min
10g Nelson Sauvin 0 min
8.35g each of Motueka, Nelson Sauvin, and Pacific Jade dry hop

i haven't brweed with this yeast so i might be wrong here, but seems like this IPA could use more late hops. i realize it's a 3 gallon batch, but i'd increase those 10g additions to 15g. 1.1 oz dry hop seems low. for me, an IPA needs 0.5 oz/gal (14g/gal) at the very least, with 1 oz/gal (28g/gal) being a better number.

but maybe the Trois reduces the need for late hopping?

that, and i possibly like hops too much

 

[cjalderman]

i haven't brweed with this yeast so i might be wrong here, but seems like this IPA could use more late hops. i realize it's a 3 gallon batch, but i'd increase those 10g additions to 15g. 1.1 oz dry hop seems low. for me, an IPA needs 0.5 oz/gal (14g/gal) at the very least, with 1 oz/gal (28g/gal) being a better number.

but maybe the Trois reduces the need for late hopping?

that, and i possibly like hops too much

Added more hops and brewed this past Saturday. I decided to start keeping a blog as an online journal for my own brewing adventures, so here's a link to a post with some brew day picture for those interested.
Brett Trois IPA Brew Day

I went out and bought another ounce of NZ Green Bullet to use in this brew and updated the hopping schedule:

8.35g NZ Green Bullet (12.5%) FWH - Boil 60 min
10g Pacific Jade (14.4%) - Boil 10 min
10g each: Motueka (6.7%), Pacific Jade, and Nelson Sauvin (12.5%) - Boil 5 min
10g each: Motueka, NZ Green Bullet, and Nelson Sauvin - Boil 0 min
8.35g each: Motueka, Pacific Jade, Nelson Sauvin, and 10g NZ Green Bullet - Dry Hop 5 days

This gives me 60g (2.12 oz) of hops thrown in for the final 5 min of boil and 35.05g (1.24 oz) of hops for dry hopping (@0.41 oz/gal). I think this looks good, right?

 

[sweetcell]

This gives me 60g (2.12 oz) of hops thrown in for the final 5 min of boil and 35.05g (1.24 oz) of hops for dry hopping (@0.41 oz/gal). I think this looks good, right?

now you're talkin' :rockin:

do report back and let us know how it turns out!

 

[Brulosopher]

I would ditch the oats, that might also be too much wheat. This is tough with the split batch. The bugs in the Roeselare batch will definitely eat though everything over the 11+ months but I think you are gonna have too much mouth feel in your blond if you are going to be drinking it within 2 months.

Alright, so here's what I came up with considering your advice, please let me know what you think about the changes:

Brett Trois Blonde Ale (5.25 gallon batch size)

GRIST
13 lbs 4 oz German Pils (70%)
2 lbs 12 oz Munich - 10L (15%)
1 lbs 5 oz Acidulated Malt (7%)
15 oz White Wheat Malt (5%)
9 oz CaraPils (3%)

This will get me an OG of 1.049. Hop schedule stayed the same.

Cheers!

 

[kaips1]

Alright, so here's what I came up with considering your advice, please let me know what you think about the changes:

Brett Trois Blonde Ale (5.25 gallon batch size)

GRIST
13 lbs 4 oz German Pils (70%)
2 lbs 12 oz Munich - 10L (15%)
1 lbs 5 oz Acidulated Malt (7%)
15 oz White Wheat Malt (5%)
9 oz CaraPils (3%)

This will get me an OG of 1.049. Hop schedule stayed the same.

Cheers!

If it were me I'd lower the acid malt and increase the wheat malt. The acid malt helps the Brett attenuate and that'll thin your body.

 

[Brulosopher]

If it were me I'd lower the acid malt and increase the wheat malt. The acid malt helps the Brett attenuate and that'll thin your body.

Thanks! I was hoping to get a subtle tartness from the higher acid malt %, hence the prior inclusion of oats. Argh, this is getting confusing

 

[kaips1]

Thanks! I was hoping to get a subtle tartness from the higher acid malt %, hence the prior inclusion of oats. Argh, this is getting confusing

Using an aerated starter of Brett trois and a couple months in the bottle and you should see some tartness, not a lot but its there

 

[ryanhope]

Care to elaborate? I figured since Blonded are lower OG, it'd require more body building malts.

This yeast in the absence of phenols from a sacch yeast produces lots of tropical fruit notes which work really well with the citrus and tropical fruit flavors in modern hops. Thats why I say IPAs are easy with this yeast. Depending on how bitter the beer is you will need a decent malt back bone.

Now for a blonde ale you are not going to have that much bitterness so you dont need such a big malt background. You do need to have an idea when you want to drink the beer and make sure you have enough sugars for the brett to eat so that you can hit your target fg when the beer is ready. I would personally drink the blonde young because the little hops will fade quick. I also think the blonde would do well on the dryer sides of things.

 

[ryanhope]

If it were me I'd lower the acid malt and increase the wheat malt. The acid malt helps the Brett attenuate and that'll thin your body.

I never heard that about pH and attenuation with brett. However, something about the lower pH or the lactic acid from the acid malt does help the brett produce more tropical fruit notes.

 

[kaips1]

I never heard that about pH and attenuation with brett. However, something about the lower pH or the lactic acid from the acid malt does help the brett produce more tropical fruit notes.

It's in chad yacabsons dissertation on Brett, the presence of lactic acid helps Brett finish out completely, kinda like the secondary transfer can.

 

[Brulosopher]

It's in chad yacabsons dissertation on Brett, the presence of lactic acid helps Brett finish out completely, kinda like the secondary transfer can.

Okay... so if I'm keeping the Acid malt and my OG is 1.049ish, perhaps it would be prudent to include maybe 8 oz flaked oats just for body/mouthfeel purposes?

Seriously, this thread is teaching me a lot. By the time I get to brewing on Friday, I'm sure I'll have a better idea of how this yeast will impact the beer I'm making. Cheers!

 

[kaips1]

Okay... so if I'm keeping the Acid malt and my OG is 1.049ish, perhaps it would be prudent to include maybe 8 oz flaked oats just for body/mouthfeel purposes?

Seriously, this thread is teaching me a lot. By the time I get to brewing on Friday, I'm sure I'll have a better idea of how this yeast will impact the beer I'm making. Cheers!

Google the brettanomyces project and it'll take you to the site chad was runnin while doing his masters. It contains his dissertation which should give you the best advice on building a recipe. Go to embracethefunk.com and click for videos and watch his presentation he did in TN, its insanely insightful.

 

[cdburg]

From what I've seen from everyone else, the Brett Trois has behaved like a "normal" beer yeast. I just finished my second beer with it, and both have ended up with a 1.001 FG. (1.061 to 1.001 in 10 days starting at 64 F and ramping up to 72 F).

How is everyone getting the Trois to stop? Any ideas why it isn't in my case?

 

[ryanhope]

From what I've seen from everyone else, the Brett Trois has behaved like a "normal" beer yeast. I just finished my second beer with it, and both have ended up with a 1.001 FG. (1.061 to 1.001 in 10 days starting at 64 F and ramping up to 72 F).

How is everyone getting the Trois to stop? Any ideas why it isn't in my case?

I've never hit that low of a FG with a 100% brett ferments. Maybe it is because I use torrified wheat instead of flaked wheat. I also keg not bottle so maybe if I waited longer my FG would go a little lower. Mine usually end up around 1.010

 

[Coff]

Are there any online retailers selling this atm? I kept my culture going for a while but need a new pitch. I could culture from my remaining bottles but wouldn't mind starting over again.

Edit: Nevermind, found it at Rebel Brewer.

 

[lacticacid]

Are there any online retailers selling this atm? I kept my culture going for a while but need a new pitch. I could culture from my remaining bottles but wouldn't mind starting over again.

Edit: Nevermind, found it at Rebel Brewer.

Keystone in Montgomeryville had 4 vials last weekend if you wanted so place sort of local.

 

[Coff]

Keystone in Montgomeryville had 4 vials last weekend if you wanted so place sort of local.

Awesome, thanks for the tip. My brother lives around the block, I'll have him pick me up a vial.

 

[Brulosopher]

I brewed the split-batch Blonde ale this morning, pitching WLP644 in half and Roeselare inthe other. Here's the grain bill I settled on:

13 lbs German Pils
2 lbs Munich - 10L
1 lb 8 oz Flaked Oats
1 lb 8 oz White Wheat Malt
1 lb 6 oz Acidulated Malt (added at end of mash)

My hops schedule looked like this:

14 g CTZ @ 75 (12.3 IBU)
20 g EKG @ 25
24 g CTZ @ 10
30 g Centennial @ 5

I pitched both yeasts at 67F. I plan to let the 644 go for 7-8 weeks before kegging, while the Roeselare will go for a year before bottling.

We'll see!

 

[meltroha]

I have 1 long excruciating week left till I bottle my Belgian blonde with trois, I can't take it anymore.

 

[kaips1]

I have 1 long excruciating week left till I bottle my Belgian blonde with trois, I can't take it anymore.

Just wait till its conditioning time, that wait will kill you too

 

[meltroha]

Just wait till its conditioning time, that wait will kill you too

It will be worse!

 

[m00se]

Just brewed a NZ/AUS IPA this weekend with 644. Didn't aerate and pitched at 74 with a 1.5 l starter I made over 10 days that I stepped up twice. Visible signs of fermentation started w/in 5hr. 36hr later it looks like the krausen has dropped and the airlock slowed. 644 will typically start back up in a few days right?

Part of me is wondering if the starter was big enough, I've never seen krausen form and drop w/in 36hr before.

 

[kaips1]

Just brewed a NZ/AUS IPA this weekend with 644. Didn't aerate and pitched at 74 with a 1.5 l starter I made over 10 days that I stepped up twice. Visible signs of fermentation started w/in 5hr. 36hr later it looks like the krausen has dropped and the airlock slowed. 644 will typically start back up in a few days right?

Part of me is wondering if the starter was big enough, I've never seen krausen form and drop w/in 36hr before.

Leave it alone, don't bother it for at least 3 more weeks. If you're going to secondary and dry hop it will kick back into activity that should be noticeable. Then if you bottle it could kick back up again.

 

[humann_brewing]

would the conditioning time be spead up with a bigger starter meaning the brett will go through the wort quicker or is the slow conditioning time slow no matter what?

 

[smokinghole]

Well I gave up on my 1.045 gravity saison/blonde ale. I dumped the rest out a week or so ago. I can use the bottles, I didn't like the beer at all, and it wasn't getting any better. It could have been the gravity, it could have been the recipe, me in general, or just that this yeast isn't for me at all. Its not bad as a secondary yeast mixed in with my saison yeast blend.

 

[kaips1]

would the conditioning time be spead up with a bigger starter meaning the brett will go through the wort quicker or is the slow conditioning time slow no matter what?

It has its own time frame, it will eat the easy sugars first no matter the size of the starter. Then work on everything else till it decides to quit. The less complex sugars and proteins the faster it potentially can go but you will have a vary flabby beer. No body and watery are usually not descriptors you want for a beer.

 

[meltroha]

Bottled my Belgian blonde with trois yesterday, pitched @ 70° 1.5 litter starter for 4 days, shake method. I also shake aerated the wort, for about half as long as I usually do. Fermented for 6 weeks, not sour or acetic at all, went from 1.069 to 1.006. In my first experience with this yeast, pitching at ale rates and sacc methods, it performed exactly as a sacc yeast would have. Can't wait for conditioning to see what kind of flavors develop!

 

[Quaker]

Just tapped and somewhat inadvertent Brett pale ale. I had brewed a batch of pale ale. I racked most into a keg with some party remnants of the prior batch. The remaining gallon that wouldn't fit was racked into an unclean keg which had held my SiMaiYa Saison which had been finished with 644. That was on June 25th. I put the keg in the fridge last week and finally tapped it tonight.

A nice light sour cherry note is apparent in the nose and flavor. No tropical character as I've had in my 644 primary fermented beers. It works quite well with my hopping actually. It's not funky at all. The body is quite light and thin, but still quite quaffable. Goes down really well.

7 gallons pre-boil batch, 6 gallons post boil, 5.5 gallons to the fermenter.

8.5 lbs Belgian Pils
0.5 lbs acidified malt
1.0 lbs Simpson's Golden Naked Oats
1.0 lbs Simpson's Medium Crystal
1.0 lbs Breiss Victory

60 min 14g Cascade (10.3 IBU)
10 min 31g Sticklebract (19.6 IBU)
10 min 28g Motueka (10.9 IBU)
0 min 28g Cascade (3.5 IBU)

IBU calcs assumed a 10 minute hot stand at flameout.

Dryhop 14g each Cascade and Motueka divided into 2 doses 3 days apart.

14.9 P OG
3.3 P FG when racked to keg - no measurement after Brett
WYeast 1275 Thames Valley primary
WLP644 secondary

 

[terrapinj]

has anyone tried doing a hop forward beer with no boil hops?

 

[Matteo57]

Will have to try this brett strain sometime soon! Sounds delicious!