nofootbreak
Well-Known Member
I bottle conditioned about 1/4 of my berliner weisse with this yeast and I really dont like the way this strain comes through. Just far too much over ripe stone fruit.
I bottle conditioned about 1/4 of my berliner weisse with this yeast and I really dont like the way this strain comes through. Just far too much over ripe stone fruit.
Tiroux said:What is a normal lagtime with this strain? I pitched a starter in 5 gallons of 1075 wort, 36hours ago. Nothing yet, except the airlock sucjing back water because the temp goes down last night. It was 1.25 et 1.75 starter (5days each step) starter with 3 vials, i pitched 2/3 of this starter.
What is a normal lagtime with this strain? I pitched a starter in 5 gallons of 1075 wort, 36hours ago. Nothing yet, except the airlock sucjing back water because the temp goes down last night. It was 1.25 et 1.75 starter (5days each step) starter with 3 vials, i pitched 2/3 of this starter.
What is a normal lagtime with this strain? I pitched a starter in 5 gallons of 1075 wort, 36hours ago. Nothing yet, except the airlock sucjing back water because the temp goes down last night. It was 1.25 et 1.75 starter (5days each step) starter with 3 vials, i pitched 2/3 of this starter.
Given you made a starter I would be surprised if you do not have any fermentation...though lack of airlock activity is not a reliable indicator of a lack of fermentation - have you taken a look at the beer to see if you have other physical evidence? If you are really worried, take a gravity reading and see if it has decreased.
What temp is the beer at? You mentioned that it got cold overnight, so I wonder if it is too cold???
It is a carboy.. so I see the beer, and the surface is pretty still, no krausen, just rare bubble boats. The temp when down to 72. Now i went back up to 78. The airlocks are bubbling.. but I guess it is just the head space air that is expanding. I don't see why it would not ferment.. I had like 200-250ml of yeast slurry after I decanted the starter, which had krausen at the second step.
A friend of mine also fermented a berliner with WLP644 and it smells like parmesan cheese. Pretty nasty but that might change with time.
Interesting. About as close as I can come is a hint of butterscotch (ethyl lactate?) in the background. Looking at this chart in Wild Brews, most of the things referred to as "cheesy" are acids. I wonder if the cheesy element doesn't come from the sour mash as opposed to the brett. Good news is it looks like esterification of these cheesy acids results in fruity characteristics, so hopefully with time it'll come around.
cjalderman said:Alright, round two. Tell me what y'all think for this.
Brett Trois IPA - 3.0 gal
OG: 1.061
IBU: 57.0
SRM: 5.1
75% efficiency
4 lbs 2-row 60.4%
2 lbs White Wheat 30.2%
8.0 oz Golden Naked Oats 7.5%
4.0 oz Acidulated Malt 1.9%
8g Columbus (14.0%) FWH 60 min
10g Pacific Jade (14.4%) 10 min
10g Motueka (6.7%) 5 min
10g Nelson Sauvin (12.5%) 5 min
10g Pacific Jade 5 min
10g Motueka 0 min
10g Nelson Sauvin 0 min
8.35g each of Motueka, Nelson Sauvin, and Pacific Jade dry hop
I see both Isovaleric and Isobutyric acids listed as being cheesy, though none specifically listed as Parmesan. Hard to say...
My first starter of 644 has been on a stir plate for the last 5 days, I just turned the stir plate off and plan to let it sit at 74F until I pitch on Thursday. How does this sound?
Here's my plan and recipe for Thursday's brew day... I'll take all the help I can get!
Batch Size: 10 gallons split into 2 x 5 gallons Brewhouse Efficiency: 75%
Expected OG: 1.055
Expected FG: 1.005 (or less)
SRM: 5
IBU: 32
GRAIN BILL
10.50 lbs German Pilsner Malt
4.50 lbs White Wheat Malt
3.00 lbs Munich Malt - 10L
1.50 lbs Acidulated Malt
1.50 lbs Flaked Oats
HOP SCHEDULE
20 grams CTZ [12.90%] @ 55 min
20 grams EKG [7.80%] @ 25 min
24 grams CTZ [12.90%] @ 10 min
30 grams Cascade [12.90%] @ 5 min
YEASTS
WLP644 Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Trois Yeast for half
Wyeast Roeselare Blend for half
PROCESS
Mash @ 150F for 60 min
Split wort into two 6 gallon carboys and pitch both yeasts (1.5 L of Brett Trois starter, smack-pack of Roeselare) at 68˚; allow to ferment at this temp for 5-7 days then move to 74˚ sour closet for batch conditioning and aging
**For the Brett Trois Blonde: Move back to ferm chamber after 3 weeks and cold crash to 33˚ for 3 days, keg and lager a bit while carbonating, then serve. Grain to glass in 5-6 weeks.
**For the Roeselare Blonde: Keep in sour closet for 11+ months or until it develops appropriate sourness; bottle condition.
ryanhope said:I would ditch the oats, that might also be too much wheat. This is tough with the split batch. The bugs in the Roeselare batch will definitely eat though everything over the 11+ months but I think you are gonna have too much mouth feel in your blond if you are going to be drinking it within 2 months.
Thanks for the input!
Hmm, I have a friend who has one BoS in multiple comps with his 100% Brett IPA using 644 (it's so good), he's the one who recommended making just a 1 L starter using a fresh vial... he's also the one who helped me design this beer- wheat, oats, and all. I am now both confused and totally open to changing the recipe! Anyone else care to chime in?
Thanks for the input!
Hmm, I have a friend who has one BoS in multiple comps with his 100% Brett IPA using 644 (it's so good), he's the one who recommended making just a 1 L starter using a fresh vial... he's also the one who helped me design this beer- wheat, oats, and all. I am now both confused and totally open to changing the recipe! Anyone else care to chime in?
ryanhope said:Well IPAs are easy with this yeast, especially with all those citrus and tropical fruit hops. Blond ales are much different.
i haven't brweed with this yeast so i might be wrong here, but seems like this IPA could use more late hops. i realize it's a 3 gallon batch, but i'd increase those 10g additions to 15g. 1.1 oz dry hop seems low. for me, an IPA needs 0.5 oz/gal (14g/gal) at the very least, with 1 oz/gal (28g/gal) being a better number.Alright, round two. Tell me what y'all think for this.
Brett Trois IPA - 3.0 gal
OG: 1.061
IBU: 57.0
SRM: 5.1
75% efficiency
4 lbs 2-row 60.4%
2 lbs White Wheat 30.2%
8.0 oz Golden Naked Oats 7.5%
4.0 oz Acidulated Malt 1.9%
8g Columbus (14.0%) FWH 60 min
10g Pacific Jade (14.4%) 10 min
10g Motueka (6.7%) 5 min
10g Nelson Sauvin (12.5%) 5 min
10g Pacific Jade 5 min
10g Motueka 0 min
10g Nelson Sauvin 0 min
8.35g each of Motueka, Nelson Sauvin, and Pacific Jade dry hop
i haven't brweed with this yeast so i might be wrong here, but seems like this IPA could use more late hops. i realize it's a 3 gallon batch, but i'd increase those 10g additions to 15g. 1.1 oz dry hop seems low. for me, an IPA needs 0.5 oz/gal (14g/gal) at the very least, with 1 oz/gal (28g/gal) being a better number.
but maybe the Trois reduces the need for late hopping?
that, and i possibly like hops too much
This gives me 60g (2.12 oz) of hops thrown in for the final 5 min of boil and 35.05g (1.24 oz) of hops for dry hopping (@0.41 oz/gal). I think this looks good, right?
I would ditch the oats, that might also be too much wheat. This is tough with the split batch. The bugs in the Roeselare batch will definitely eat though everything over the 11+ months but I think you are gonna have too much mouth feel in your blond if you are going to be drinking it within 2 months.
Brulosopher said:Alright, so here's what I came up with considering your advice, please let me know what you think about the changes:
Brett Trois Blonde Ale (5.25 gallon batch size)
GRIST
13 lbs 4 oz German Pils (70%)
2 lbs 12 oz Munich - 10L (15%)
1 lbs 5 oz Acidulated Malt (7%)
15 oz White Wheat Malt (5%)
9 oz CaraPils (3%)
This will get me an OG of 1.049. Hop schedule stayed the same.
Cheers!
kaips1 said:If it were me I'd lower the acid malt and increase the wheat malt. The acid malt helps the Brett attenuate and that'll thin your body.
Brulosopher said:Thanks! I was hoping to get a subtle tartness from the higher acid malt %, hence the prior inclusion of oats. Argh, this is getting confusing
Care to elaborate? I figured since Blonded are lower OG, it'd require more body building malts.
If it were me I'd lower the acid malt and increase the wheat malt. The acid malt helps the Brett attenuate and that'll thin your body.
ryanhope said:I never heard that about pH and attenuation with brett. However, something about the lower pH or the lactic acid from the acid malt does help the brett produce more tropical fruit notes.
kaips1 said:It's in chad yacabsons dissertation on Brett, the presence of lactic acid helps Brett finish out completely, kinda like the secondary transfer can.
Brulosopher said:Okay... so if I'm keeping the Acid malt and my OG is 1.049ish, perhaps it would be prudent to include maybe 8 oz flaked oats just for body/mouthfeel purposes?
Seriously, this thread is teaching me a lot. By the time I get to brewing on Friday, I'm sure I'll have a better idea of how this yeast will impact the beer I'm making. Cheers!
From what I've seen from everyone else, the Brett Trois has behaved like a "normal" beer yeast. I just finished my second beer with it, and both have ended up with a 1.001 FG. (1.061 to 1.001 in 10 days starting at 64 F and ramping up to 72 F).
How is everyone getting the Trois to stop? Any ideas why it isn't in my case?
Coff said:Are there any online retailers selling this atm? I kept my culture going for a while but need a new pitch. I could culture from my remaining bottles but wouldn't mind starting over again.
Edit: Nevermind, found it at Rebel Brewer.
lacticacid said:Keystone in Montgomeryville had 4 vials last weekend if you wanted so place sort of local.
meltroha said:I have 1 long excruciating week left till I bottle my Belgian blonde with trois, I can't take it anymore.
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