WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[AmandaK]

Just picked up a vial of WLP644, supposedly the strain from Drie Fonteinen.

Any ideas on what kind of beer to make with this? I was thinking 100% Brett fermentation...

Either way, I'll be definitely building up a huge starter of this and doing multiple batches over time.

 

[SPLASTiK]

I'm looking forward to this one... Just waiting for my online homebrew shop of choice to finally put it on their website so I can order! Probably will pick up some Vinnie bottles for the batch too.

 

[AmandaK]

If you're waiting on NB (the bottles gave it away), they have it already. Just call if it isn't up online.

 

[Almighty]

I love this strain of Brett and I have been brewing with it for about 1.5 years. (My friend is the one who cultured it from Avery 15 and gave it to White Labs). I really prefer it as a primary strain in 100% Brett beers. I have added it in secondary to a few Saisons and I didn't get much flavor production from it.

But as a primary strain it is amazing. It puts off some huge tropical fruit flavors early on and over time will move toward more funk (I think of it as over ripe fruit). The initial flavors I relate to the hawaiian drink POG (passion, orange, guava). The Brett will produce some acid (acetic) if you aerate it well, the amount is just enough in my opinion to give people the idea that it is a wild beer, but no where near a sharp bite. If you do not aerate, then the yeast will still produce the fruit flavors, but with little to no acidity and a very "clean" taste.

I have tried this yeast with several different worts and really been happy with how each turned out.

English Bitter - 1.045 - 1.012 - 30 IBUs -no aeration - big tropical fruit - nice w/ Goldings
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2011/01/dreg-series-avery-15-or-drie-brett.html.

Old Ale - OG 1.080 - F.G - 1.020 - 40 IBUS - 8.5% - aerated - sour and decently complex in 3 months - easily one of my top beers.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2011/02/dreg-series-old-ale-with-avery-15-brett.html

Extra Special "Brett"er - 1.049 - 1.006 - 20 IBUs - Dry-hopped w Nelson - testing it with a Hoppy wort - no aeration - over the top fruit aroma, clean tasting
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/05/brett-series-extra-special-bretter.html

These also were all done fermenting in about 3-4 weeks (majority done in 1 week).

And I'm excited to hear how others are using it.

 

[Guess42]

Thanks for the summary. Ordering some now thanks to this.

 

[AmandaK]

Almighty, thank you so much for the post! I'm hoping to keep this updated when I do my own experiments. Yeast gets here tomorrow.

 

[Coff]

Can't wait to try this strain, I'll pick it up this week.

 

[Almighty]

I think this thread could be a great resource, if people can post their experiences with the yeast in different types of wort, different pitching rates, temperatures, levels of aeration.

I have only fermented this yeast in the 68 - 72 range and I'm curious how much temperature will make a difference for this Brett strain. I know that below 65 and the yeast has a hard time fermenting, but others may have different results.

I also am interested in seeing the fermentation limits of this yeast - 20% Brett Beer anyone?

 

[Bsquared]

Almighty, when you used this for a primary fermentation, do you recall your pitching rate? I've been using Brett C for primary fermentation, and have used an extra large pitch in the past, that gave a very clean fermentation with very little brett profile. I also have a batch that is just finishing up that i pitched only one vial from WL, the wort was 1.050, oxygenated with pure o2, and fermentation was started at 68º and allowed to ramp up.I'm hoping this will result in a more robust brett profile.

I'd be curious to see how wlp644 would perform in these conditions, you have any input on this? might have to brew this sooner than later so i can compair the two, or do a spilt batch.

 

[Almighty]

My most recent pitch was pretty good size.

I started with some saved yeast in a White Labs vial that was 1/8 full of yeast. I did a 4 oz 1.020 starter since it was a couple months old from a previous batch. Then a 32 oz 1.040 starter, then 64 oz 1.040 with a week between each. According to my estimates (very rough) and this calculator (http://yeastcalc.com/ - based on Sacc). I had some where around 220 billion cells.

Next batch I'll be better about qty in mL that I pitch.

 

[adc123]

I just got two tubes of this and I am pretty excited to use em.

Go find anything written by Chad Yakobson (crooked stave) on brett. He uses this strain quite a bit.

On pitching rate: he recommends 100% brett ferments with lager scale pitching rates for speedy attenuation. And give the starter a week.

 

[digitalbullet]

Where did all of you get your vials? Couldn't find it online.

 

[adc123]

I was pretty OCD about getting them. I ordered it on northern brewer monday morning (been looking every day for a week). Honestly, I don't have the vials in hand yet, but they should be here tomorrow. I saw today they were all out!

We will see if they actually sent me what I ordered :rockin:

 

[Coff]

I'm checking my LHBS today to see if they have this but if not does anyone know what online retailer has this in stock? If they do have it today I am willing to snag a few vials and share with you folks in exchange for beers on the back end.

 

[mhenry41h]

I just ordered 2 vials as well. Im considering doing either a Belgian Wheat beer with it OR a Golden Strong with honey replacng the sugar (1 vial of Brett and 1 vial of a Belgian ale strain if I do this) Ive had tremendous luck pitching Brett alongside Saccro. It gives a much more intense Brett chracter and finished rather quickly...last beer took 6 weeks and obvious Brett character was there in 4 weeks.

 

[mhenry41h]

...quick question though...considering that WL's synopsis seems to recommend a 100% fermentation with it...are the cell counts higher than in a traditional vial of Brett?

 

[adc123]

When I pitched the trappist blend (orval-like blend of sacc and brett) into an orval clone, it got SUPER bretty in only a few months. For orval you really need to do like they do it: sacc first, mash a bit high. dry hop in primary. brett in the secondary/bottling bucket and bottle immediately with heavy bottles. that way you get the dry hop/belgian sacc character early on, and over time the brett takes over.

Really good question on cell count; Ill send them an email!

 

[Almighty]

If people are really having a hard time getting a vial, I would be happy to fill a vial from my most recent yeast cake.

 

[adc123]

WLP644 is a reduced count:

******
Andrew,

All of our Brett strains, including the 644, are reduced cell counts and
are intended to be used in a secondary fermentation. If you want to do
primary fermentation with Brett, you will need to either use multiple vials
or propagate the yeast yourself.

Cheers!

*****

 

[mhenry41h]

WLP644 is a reduced count:

******
Andrew,

All of our Brett strains, including the 644, are reduced cell counts and
are intended to be used in a secondary fermentation. If you want to do
primary fermentation with Brett, you will need to either use multiple vials
or propagate the yeast yourself.

Cheers!

*****

Thanks for finding an answer! It's a little bit misleading, but I certainly understand it.

 

[RomanNumeral]

Used it solo to ferment a blonde and it just took off. Not too sure about reduced cell count.

 

[AmandaK]

Used it solo to ferment a blonde and it just took off. Not too sure about reduced cell count.

I have it sitting in my fridge upright and there is barely a dusting of a yeast cake in the bottom of the vial. Probably about 2cm in the bottom of the curved vial.

I'm thinking that I'll start with a 500mL - 1000mL starter of 1.030 wort, let it eat, step it up to 1500mL and then step it up again to 2000mL. It may take about 2-3 weeks for it to have a week for each step (as has been suggested here). I'm looking to get the tropical fruit with a bit of sourness.

Perhaps I'll try this with a cream ale or a Belgian Pils SMaSH (something basic to let the yeast shine) and then go from there. If it turns out well, I'm hoping to keep a culture of this going for one of my house strains.

 

[adc123]

the Trois strain is one of the hardier brett strains according to The Brett Project's experiments. Even underpitched it still had good attenuation. The main reason to make a decent starter, like for any beer, is to prevent underattenuation of the beer and proper yeast health.

 

[Almighty]

The points brought up is why this thread is helpful. I would like to hear about the results of people using different pitching rates and see how that influences flavors and/or attenuation like we know it does for Sacc strains.

 

[mhenry41h]

bit of sourness.
Sourness. I doubt that you'll get any sourness without either Lacto or a bunch of acid malt. In fact, 100% Brett fermentations tend to be strikingly like Saccro fermentations. you'll get fruity, but I doubt you will get any sour.

 

[mhenry41h]

Ive decided that I will, in fact, use 1 of the vials of Trois along with a vial of WLP575 to do a 1.070 Golden Strong. For those tracking pitching rates Im going to do a 1250ml starter (stir plate). (575 and Trois together)

 

[spearko520]

Making a starter and doing two batches of 50/50 pils/munich- one with lacto, one straight- will keep posted.

 

[Bsquared]

Making a starter and doing two batches of 50/50 pils/munich- one with lacto, one straight- will keep posted.

How are you going to pitch the lacto? With the brett, or before brett? are you going to make a lacto starter too?

 

[spearko520]

How are you going to pitch the lacto? With the brett, or before brett? are you going to make a lacto starter too?

i'll pitch lacto first and let go a couple days - i have a quart of starter ready to go. My lacto starters have been getting very acetoney(sp) lately, so i am hoping this one doesn't - but so far so good. If it does, i guess i will go with a pure wyeast culture- no starter. i've had good luck with those.

 

[Almighty]

In my experience with this strain, you can definitely get some "tartness" when the Brett is well aerated. It produces acetic acid from all that I have read, but I have never thought the beer tasted sharp or vinegar like. I think the level of acid is so small that it doesn't give you those characteristics. I believe Chad Y discussed this recently in his interview on the Sunday Session.

 

[mhenry41h]

Fortunate change of plans for the Golden Strong. I managed to come across a vial of East Coast Yeast ECY09 (Belgian Abbaye), I will do a mixed starter of ECY09 and Brett B Trois and let it run. I cannot wait to brew this.

 

[AmandaK]

Bumpin' it up.

Any updates as to who has brewed this yet?

 

[lacticacid]

Bumpin' it up.

Any updates as to who has brewed this yet?

I have a batch fermenting now. The fermentation appears more vigorous then the batch fermenting with 3711. It smells pretty tropical as it is fermenting.

 

[AmandaK]

I have a batch fermenting now. The fermentation appears more vigorous then the batch fermenting with 3711. It smells pretty tropical as it is fermenting.

Very nice! What was your starter size and did you aerate?

 

[dwarven_stout]

I need to get my hands on this before it goes away.

 

[lacticacid]

Very nice! What was your starter size and did you aerate?

I used a 1000mL 1.040 starter pitch into 4 gallons of ~1.040 wort.

For the batch I diluted 6 gallons of 1.80 worth 50/50 with bottled water. To aerate I shook the Carboy.

 

[eastoak]

i have a buddy fermenting a beer with this strain, i'll be teaching him how to wash yeast and snagging some for myself to ferment a 1.050 blonde ale hopped with galaxy hops. can't wait.

 

[Almighty]

This Brett strain and most of them have very low flocculation. You may need to assist the yeast to floc out with a cold crash and a bit of pressure. But then separating it from the trub should be pretty easy.

 

[smokinghole]

I just ordered two vials of this before it left the shelves. I plan on a 100% trois wit, and maybe using that as a washed yeast for a dubbel recipe. I will then probably start my own saison blend and use this the brett in the blend.

 

[adc123]

Did people's starters get going immediately? I have made a 500 mL starter and the next morning there was definitely activity. People say brett starters need more time to get going, but perhaps Trois is faster? I am just wondering if I have sacc in there too on accident.