PH 5.7 for a porter?

[trapae]

This was my first time brewing, a dark beer with reverse osmosis water using bru’n water and my pH 10 minutes into the mash at 70° was 5.7. I was shooting for 5.55. Just wondering if this is going to make a big effect on taste? Any opinions?

Also, when I added my Brewing minerals, my strike water turned cloudy. And did not clear. Gypsum 1.12 g, CACL 2.79 g, Epsom salt 1.67 g, NaCl 0.37 g, baking soda, 3.05 g.

 

[marc1]

Did you add your minerals while the water was cold? Gypsum gets less soluble with warmer water, so get that dissolved while the water is cool.

How did you measure the pH?

 

[trapae]

I added the minerals at strike temperature and stirred well for a long time. I used my pH meter and calibrated it immediately prior.

 

[dmtaylor]

That's a lot of baking soda. That's why your mash pH was too high, and caused clouding up of the strike water. A faint haze is normal, but with that much baking soda, plus adding calcium, you're going to end up with calcium carbonate in the water which is not soluble.

 

[trapae]

That's a lot of baking soda. That's why your mash pH was too high, and caused clouding up of the strike water. A faint haze is normal, but with that much baking soda, plus adding calcium, you're going to end up with calcium carbonate in the water which is not soluble.

Aside from pH is that a problem? And do you think it will cause flavor issues?

 

[dmtaylor]

Aside from pH is that a problem? And do you think it will cause flavor issues?

Chalk (calcium carbonate) will stay behind with the spent grains. This is normal, not a problem at all. Even a pH of 5.7 isn't a horrible thing probably. IF you end up with any astringency in the finished beer, it could be from the pH. But I think it will probably turn out alright. You can add a few drops of any acid to the mash, boil, or fermenter to knock this down a notch, the earlier the better. But you're most likely still going to make a decent beer regardless.

 

[marc1]

I added the minerals at strike temperature and stirred well for a long time. I used my pH meter and calibrated it immediately prior.

The gypsum won't dissolve as easily hot.

Did you measure pH at mash temp or did you cool the sample to room temp?

 

[trapae]

Measured the ph at 70 degrees

 

[Peebee]

Wish I could end up with pH5.7, as it is I've been fighting to get mash above 5.1. (And, that's been using 3 grams of baking soda!).

No problem with 5.7. It is pushing the top end of "safe" pH, but "a miss is as good as a mile". Some suggestion high pH actually improves the flavour of porter and stout ("modern" porter that is, containing high roast grain). e.g. "Dutching"? (Martin pushes loads of other stuff regarding a higher pH for porter and stout ... except Guinness!).

 

[Peebee]

Ha! I've just been preparing for my next brew and Bru'n Water is giving me:

"5.7". Now there's a coincidence. Am I worried? Well ... yes, as in "fingers crossed that it wilI get that high". Note: Bru'n Water has only colored the pH "orange" (caution) not "red" (don't do it).

I'm being asked to add 3.5 grams of calcium hydroxide (lime ... weight for weight, twice the clout of sodium bicarbonate) to get that, although 2.5 grams goes in late with the chocolate malt after the main mash is complete for a 20-30min steep at 160F (roast malt is being held back because it is so acidic).

 

[mabrungard]

At the typical dosing of gypsum in brewing, the temperature of the water has NO effect on gypsum solubility. If your gypsum doesn't dissolve when stirred into the water and kept suspended by stirring for a minute or so, then the gypsum probably isn't pure and may contain chalk. If a drop of acid on your 'gypsum' produces any bubbling, then it is contaminated with chalk. Pure gypsum and acid won't produce bubbling.

Dave, the small amounts of baking soda, gypsum, and calcium chloride are not enough to result in calcium carbonate forming in the water and clouding it up. The cloudiness is just particulate salts that haven't dissolved yet. KEEP STIRRING until the water clears. The other consideration is that baking soda is a BASIC BUFFER (contains HCO3 or CO3) and its not a BASE (contains OH). It doesn't really raise pH significantly like a real base like lime or lye does. I show that adding a good dose of baking soda to RO water only increases pH from 7.2 to 8.0 in a check I just performed.

Mashing pH does change during the course of a mash and an early pH measurement is not likely to be the pH at the end of mashing. I find that mashing pH doesn't become constant until about 45 minutes into the mash. An early pH check is OK to check, but it isn't the final pH.

Do check pH at around 45 minutes and NEVER chase pH by adding acid or buffers because your early pH isn't where you targeted. If you're using good mashing chemistry software like Bru'n Water, the ending pH will be in the ballpark and should be close enough. Do measure final pH if you can and compare it to the software prediction and use that information to tell you to bias your software target higher or lower based on those previous results. Remember, grains and additives (including salts) can be off from what was assumed in your software and if you observe consistent deviation from your target, move the target to hopefully end up where you want your wort to be.

 

[marc1]

At the typical dosing of gypsum in brewing, the temperature of the water has NO effect on gypsum solubility. If your gypsum doesn't dissolve when stirred into the water and kept suspended by stirring for a minute or so, then the gypsum probably isn't pure and may contain chalk. If a drop of acid on your 'gypsum' produces any bubbling, then it is contaminated with chalk. Pure gypsum and acid won't produce bubbling.

Dave, the small amounts of baking soda, gypsum, and calcium chloride are not enough to result in calcium carbonate forming in the water and clouding it up. The cloudiness is just particulate salts that haven't dissolved yet. KEEP STIRRING until the water clears. The other consideration is that baking soda is a BASIC BUFFER (contains HCO3 or CO3) and its not a BASE (contains OH). It doesn't really raise pH significantly like a real base like lime or lye does. I show that adding a good dose of baking soda to RO water only increases pH from 7.2 to 8.0 in a check I just performed.

Mashing pH does change during the course of a mash and an early pH measurement is not likely to be the pH at the end of mashing. I find that mashing pH doesn't become constant until about 45 minutes into the mash. An early pH check is OK to check, but it isn't the final pH.

Do check pH at around 45 minutes and NEVER chase pH by adding acid or buffers because your early pH isn't where you targeted. If you're using good mashing chemistry software like Bru'n Water, the ending pH will be in the ballpark and should be close enough. Do measure final pH if you can and compare it to the software prediction and use that information to tell you to bias your software target higher or lower based on those previous results. Remember, grains and additives (including salts) can be off from what was assumed in your software and if you observe consistent deviation from your target, move the target to hopefully end up where you want your wort to be.

I didn't know that gypsum could be contaminated with chalk. Interesting to look into.
Thank you for correcting the retrograde solubility statement I made; it seems solubility is still in the g/L range even though it is less than at room temp.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

because sometimes most times cross posting brings out the best in the online home brewing community:

• https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/ph-5-7-for-porter/39311