Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[TorMag]

Respectfully, you've got it wrong. Induction doesn't have many limitations. The Advanco 3500 is what has the limitations.

I'm subscribed to this thread because the Advanco users are probably the most advanced brewers using induction.

I love the Advanco, yes it has some limitations, but it works fantastically. I do BIAB and I recirculate my mash. Yes, I have the heat going and I monitor it for the whole mash time, but that is fine for me, I did not get into this to plug something in and walk away from it and come back later for beer. It's about the process. With the Advanco, I get to brew indoors, in my basement, and not have to worry about the weather, bugs and bird crap. I can also brew at any time of day for me.

If you wan the convince of electrical brewing, without huge expenses, then this is the way to go.

 

[brewman !]

If you wan the convince of electrical brewing, without huge expenses, then this is the way to go.

And it would be even better with a larger coil for lower heat density, more power, 5Kw versus 3.5Kw, and a built in controller so that you can walk away and it stays at the set temperature. If you like controlling it manually, set it up for manual control.

Induction is in its infancy in this hobby.

 

[IslandLizard]

And it would be even better with a larger coil for lower heat density, more power, 5Kw versus 3.5Kw, and a built in controller so that you can walk away and it stays at the set temperature. If you like controlling it manually, set it up for manual control.

Induction is in its infancy in this hobby.

I agreed, those features would be nice.

But again, at what price do you think this can/should happen?

How about the idea of plugging 5 kW appliances into a wall socket in a home setting?

 

[brewman !]

How about the idea of plugging 5 kW appliances into a wall socket in a home setting?

I wired a 20A 120/240VAC receptacle into the back of the pot drawer in our island. I used 12/3 wire and it is protected by a GFCI.

Out of sight, out of mind until I need it. The receptacle cover is spring loaded, so it snaps closed when it isn't in use. I can plug into the receptacle without removing either drawer and the plug doesn't protrude way out into the galley isle. The drawer needs to stay open about an inch to allow the cord to exit.

I have't tested it yet. I plan to brew in the kitchen in the near future.

The bottom picture is the before image... I provided it as a reference of where the drawer was located in the island.

 

[cbier60]

How about the idea of plugging 5 kW appliances into a wall socket in a home setting?

I wired a 20A 120/240VAC receptacle into the back of the pot drawer in our island. I used 12/3 wire and it is protected by a GFCI.

Your 20A/240V drop is fine for the 3.5kW IC3500, but isn't sufficient for 5kW. You really need a 25A minimum drop for that.

BTW, I'll be glad to buy the $250 5kW 13" manual induction top you're "promoting".

 

[Lmiller1708]

Automatic Control with the Avantco burner... Sure? Anything can be automated with a slight hack (right)?!?!

I have been working on this for a while now (OK, more thinking), and one may say it's still at the "idea" stage... But with two young kids I barely have time to brew!

Anyway, here are my plans that I hope to be testing out soon and I hope it sparks a few more ideas here for Automatic Control.

Goal: Automatic Control of the Mash temperature of course!

1. Add two wire pairs to the underside of the PCB to control the Up/Down switches. Status: Done! See pictures.
2. Add two SSR's to the wire pairs that will activate the up/down switches. The switches had around 5 volts DC on them (if I remember correctly) and when shorted together it will act like the switch was pressed. Status: Need to find the SSR's.
3. Recirculating mash. Status: Done!
4. Write an application that will control the SSR's based on the mash temp and have a cool interface and have control over my entire brew process! Status: STARTED!
5. Tune and Test! Status: Coming soon...
6. Brew!!! Repeat steps 5 and 6 again and again! Status: Coming soon...

I'm using Vb.net to a USB controller with several I/O, one would be able to do this with a raspberry pi and/or arduino just as easy. Tuning the controller is going to be the best part and what I'm looking forward to the most! There are only 10 steps from 500 to 3500 watts. 500 isn't off but in my experience it's close enough. I do plan on using the Watt mode, but will also try out the temp mode when tuning as the burner does have some control already and it may help... I don't remember home many steps there are while in the temp mode?

Concerns I have:
Loud beeping noise? (Would hate to wake up the kids!) First, I will try adding some tape over the speaker, if that isn't enough I will just remove the speaker all together.

Switching too fast or too much? Start with a 10 second delay before making any changes and adjust as needed. But, maybe it doesn't matter at all and one would just switch away... Not sure, but the tighter the control means more accurate temps and it also means more switching... Also Faster the better!

No feedback to tell me the power level or step? May take some more digging into the PCB to find a spot to monitor and tie it back to one of the controller's input.

Again, not complete yet... But I wanted to share what I have so far to help spark other ideas!

Cheers!

 

[brewman !]

Your 20A/240V drop is fine for the 3.5kW IC3500, but isn't sufficient for 5kW. You really need a 25A minimum drop for that.

Most breakers will pass 20-50% more current than their nominal rating for hours.

5,000 watts/240V = 20.83 Amps.
20.83 Amps/ 20A = 4% "overload"

I don't have any heating processes that will require full power (5 Kw) for hours. 12 gallons from 150 to 210F with 5Kw induction takes ~12 minutes, after which much less power is needed to just maintain the boil. It takes roughly 1000 BTU to boil off a pound of water. 8,300 BTU per gallon boiled off. A 5Kw induction system will boil off ~2 gallons per hour at full power.

In reality, 5Kw is the nominal rating of the induction system. How much power it actually draws/supplies depends on the actual input voltage as well as the inductive coupling between the pot and the induction coil. Power factor also plays a role.

My "2500" watt induction system pulls 9.8-9.9 amps at 242 volts AC supplied using my preferred pot and a sub optimal coil. I haven't measured the power consumption of my 5Kw system yet.

Immersion resistance elements have a similar "nominal" rating. What they actually draw depends on input voltage and probably the temperature of the liquid they are heating.

 

[brewman !]

2. Add two SSR's to the wire pairs that will activate the up/down switches. The switches had around 5 volts DC on them (if I remember correctly) and when shorted together it will act like the switch was pressed. Status: Need to find the SSR's.

Not all "SSR"s will switch DC loads. Use opto isolotators instead. FOD814A or similar.

 

[The_Bishop]

Most breakers will pass 20-50% more current than their nominal rating for hours.

5,000 watts/240V = 20.83 Amps.
20.83 Amps/ 20A = 4% "overload"

Advocating this is both stupid and dangerous. Deliberately running a circuit above (no matter how slightly) it's rated capacity could burn someone's house down.

Also, not sure where you got the breakers passing more current than their rating for 'hours'. Most breakers used in residential applications are 80% load rated.

 

[brewman !]

Advocating this is both stupid and dangerous. Deliberately running a circuit above (no matter how slightly) it's rated capacity could burn someone's house down.

LOL ! Have you run the numbers on that ?

5,000 watts is a nominal load rating. As is the rating on an immersion element. What they actually draw depends on a number of factors. Breakers are not precise devices either. Nevertheless, they protect the rest of the circuit from damage regardless of the load applied. When the breaker, wire and plug are properly sized to each other there is zero chance of anyone's house burning down, regardless of whatever load you may apply.

I think you would be very surprised to see the current draws of various appliances versus what their nominal rating says, especially if there is a motor or high temperature resistance element involved.

Also, not sure where you got the breakers passing more current than their rating for 'hours'. Most breakers used in residential applications are 80% load rated.

Huh ?

http://static.schneider-electric.us...100-400 A Frame FA-LA/FA-FC-FH/0600DB0105.pdf

Here is a discussion of the 80% load rating rule. Notice that "continuous" loads are those that operate for 3 hours or more.
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/128677/80_breaker_rating.html

 

[Lmiller1708]

Not all "SSR"s will switch DC loads. Use opto isolotators instead. FOD814A or similar.

Great idea, as I have a few opto isolotators sitting around already. Thanks!

 

[The_Bishop]

I stand by my original statement. Advocating that someone utilize a circuit beyond it's rating is stupid, dangerous, against code, and is a hazard. I'm not interested in 'running the numbers', I'm going by what's safe/best practice.

If the circuit is 100% perfect with tight/non-oxidized connections, there probably won't be a problem until the breaker gets hot and trips. In reality, there could be loose and/or oxidized connections which will cause resistance and in turn, create heat.

There's the liability angle, too. Burn your own house down doing something like this and the insurance company figures it out? Hello, denied claim. Likewise if you burn down someone *else's* house/building, that responsibility is yours.

I was going by this document for the 80%:

http://blog.schneider-electric.com/...g-confusion-80-vs-100-rated-circuit-breakers/

In short: You want to take risky shortcuts and risk your own neck? Go right ahead as long as you aren't hurting anyone else. Don't give others your 'advice' and say "LOL, don't worry!"

That sort of irresponsible nonsense can get people hurt or worse.

Also: That wiring you're showing in your picture would fail inspection around here. You have 'soft' in-wall wiring in an exposed area, prone to damage from any items in those drawers.

 

[brewman !]

Also: That wiring you're showing in your picture would fail inspection around here. You have 'soft' in-wall wiring in an exposed area, prone to damage from any items in those drawers.

Spring loaded cover. The back in that cabinet is 1/2" plywood.

You got all the answers, don't ya ?

 

[The_Bishop]

Not talking about the outlet. I'm talking about the exposed romex wiring to the right of it.

 

[brewman !]

Not talking about the outlet. I'm talking about the exposed romex wiring to the right of it.

The inspector was fine with it. And it has survived 4 years with no signs of damage.

 

[tmendick]

I'm shocked that an inspector didn't have a problem with that!

It won't "definitely" fail or be an issue, but if you're recommending electrical wiring to people on a random brewing website, i.e. dealing with NOOBS, water, and electricity, don't recommend something that is against code and potentially dangerous.

For anyone looking to wire, don't simply use romex, in exposed areas, you would want conduit around the proper wiring (not romex) to protect it from potential damage.

Now...let all hug it our and calm down.

 

[boland]

Hi I'm looking to buy an induction cooker as well. Here in New Zealand they are hard to find, can only find one for >$500. I did find this one on Aliexpress, has some decent reviews, what do you guys think?

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi I'm looking to buy an induction cooker as well. Here in New Zealand they are hard to find, can only find one for >$500. I did find this one on Aliexpress, has some decent reviews, what do you guys think?

Amazing how they sell it for $58 while shipping it to the US is $59.

Looks like a fair and decent unit.

I wouldn't be surprised if the internals are very similar to those of the IC3500, which is also China made. The coil looks similarly built.

From what I can see the unit seems to have a (black) molded plastic base with a stainless/glass top cover. At 5 kg it's much heavier than the IC3500. The exhaust fan seems to be in the bottom, right next to the air intake, which may or may not be good, depending on clearance. The IC3500 blows off quite a bit of hot air through the back port.

Although some buttons are self-explanatory It's everyone's guess what the chinese symbols mean on the control panel. The description hints to cooking presets, like boiling water, stir fry, etc. The IC3500 is much plainer, simpler in that regard.

After less than 2 years of regular, but not daily use, the fan on my IC3500 wasn't coming up to speed anymore unless I rapped the sides. So I opened it up and removed the fan. It has a sleeve "bearing" as found in cheap computer fans. I sprayed some teflon lubricant in it, like I've routinely used on fans of that type. That has kept it running much smoother since. It's an 18V DC fan, haven't found a suitable replacement yet.

Surprised the IC3500 hasn't appeared on Ali Express.

 

[Lmiller1708]

Anyone have a broken IC3500 sitting around? I think I fried my control board this past weekend by touching a switch to chassis ground! PM me if you do!

Lucky I could finish brewing outside!

 

[geoffm33]

Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.

Does a magnet stick to your pot? I have the same pot and a magnet wouldn't stick so I didn't think it was suitable for induction.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.

Your answer may be in this thread, reporting results with induction equipment.

Does a magnet stick to your pot? I have the same pot and a magnet wouldn't stick so I didn't think it was suitable for induction.

The non-sticking magnet is an inconclusive test for induction capability. We do know when a magnet sticks it IS positively suitable for induction. However, when it doesn't stick it doesn't mean it won't work. It may still work fine.

I have an 8 gallon tri-ply bottomed kettle (MoreBeer Heavy Duty), a magnet sticks to it everywhere. I think it takes about 20-30 minutes to heat 4 gallons of strike water to 175F, but I never really measured the exact time, it heats while I measure out grains and mill them. When I get back inside it's usually about ready.

I also have a cheap 8 gallon single ply kettle (Polarware), to which a magnet will not stick. I often heat my sparge water in that, also using the IC3500. I have no clear evidence it takes any longer.

 

[geoffm33]

Your answer may be in this thread, reporting results with induction equipment.


Thanks! Found this one:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6442872&postcount=58

Based on my calc: http://www.geoffmanning.com/homebrew/wattage-efficiency-calculator/

It seems more efficient than my system. 77% vs 72%.

 

[IslandLizard]

Your answer may be in this thread, reporting results with induction equipment

.

Thanks! Found this one:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6442872&postcount=58

Based on my calc: http://www.geoffmanning.com/homebrew/wattage-efficiency-calculator/

It seems more efficient than my system. 77% vs 72%.

Ironic to see I that I redirected you to your own thread!
I wasn't aware of the efficiency calculator on your site either.

It indeed hints to a slightly lesser efficiency (6.4%) on your system, perhaps due to the kettle material; there could be others, such as heat loss.

The factors involved to determine how efficient the induction energy is transferred to the wort is perhaps a bit more complex. To really assesses and compare transfer efficiency one could measure voltage and current in the supply line. Not the case here, but unless the same model unit is used, energy losses within each unit need to be subtracted to be fair. Kettle geometry, construction, insulation, etc. add a few more variables in regard to overall efficiency.

As I said I have the feeling my cheap light weight Polarware kettle is not quite as efficient as the Heavy Duty one. I'll try to measure it next time.

 

[geoffm33]

Ironic to see I that I redirected you to your own thread!
I wasn't aware of the efficiency calculator on your site either.

It indeed hints to a slightly lesser efficiency (6.4%) on your system, perhaps due to the kettle material; there could be others, such as heat loss.

The factors involved to determine how efficient the induction energy is transferred to the wort is perhaps a bit more complex. To really assesses and compare transfer efficiency one could measure voltage and current in the supply line. Not the case here, but unless the same model unit is used, energy losses within each unit need to be subtracted to be fair. Kettle geometry, construction, insulation, etc. add a few more variables in regard to overall efficiency.

As I said I have the feeling my cheap light weight Polarware kettle is not quite as efficient as the Heavy Duty one. I'll try to measure it next time.

Ha! No worries! I was on a brewing hiatus for well over a year so I haven't been around much at all.

The heat time I was comparing against was also using a neoprene keg sleeve vs. the reflectix on my kettle. So there is that as well.

I am looking to get a new kettle for Xmas from my kids but only if it's as efficient or better than my setup. I like the welded ports and the kettle markings. And my kids will like the bling factor

 

[DaveNH]

I'm still working my way through this thread, but in researching the possibility of integrating an induction coil into a kettle, I came across this for those without induction ready kettles:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/747044530/miito-the-sustainable-alternative-to-the-electric

Apologies if this was covered in the 70 odd pages that I haven't waded through yet.

Tl: Dr

Immerse an induction interface disk into the kettle instead of between the kettle and cooktop.

 

[tyhoward]

Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.

I recently acquired a 10 gallon tall boy kettle (tri-clad). I've been trying to get everything in order to test it out. I'll post here once I do.

 

[rnorman57]

I have an 8 gallon tall boy that works great with an ic3500 without any additional interface disk.

 

[DevilsCups]

Hey guys and gals. Have to unfortunately sell off my Avantco setup. If anyone might be interested let me know. I'm in NY. Looking to sell with my Bayou 10gal kettle (try-ply with ball valve) and my cooler mash tun to mash in a bag.

Sorry if it's improper to post in here, but figured if someone is thinking about taking the leap I can help provide them with a whole setup! I'm in NY, and yes, this setup is absolutely awesome.

Everything is in perfect shape. PM me if interested!

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I've spent countless hours looking at various eBIAB options, and I've read over 15 pages of this thread so far. It seems like a 3500 watt induction burner is my best bet. I like the idea of Plug-and-Play, without dealing with drilling a hole in my kettle, wiring heating elements and an ezBoil (or similar device), etc.

My breaker box is in my garage, and (thankfully) I would be brewing within a couple feet of it, so I would just need to have an electrician install an outlet right under the breaker box. My house was built in 2013 so the wiring should be modern, and there are spots available in the circuit breaker.

What exactly do I ask for? Would I just ask him to install a 20 amp, 240 V outlet like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...e-Single-Outlet-White-R52-05821-0WS/100356999

Do I need to specify any type of wires, or would it be obvious to an electrician?

Or for people starting from scratch, is there any benefit to adding a standard dryer-plug outlet (6-30P) then spending another ~$25 for something like this? I don't know if that would make it easier to switch to a 5500 watt element at some point down the road if I wanted to go that route - or if both outlets would be the same for that.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Locking...iFDMZMZIWz-ljRXmhpgaAsu3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


On a separate note, I did run across this Evergreen 3500 watt induction for under $120 with free shipping. Personally, I'd opt for the Avantco because of the amount of good reviews, but the Evergreen looks very similar. There are no reviews for this specific model, but their 1800 watt version gets good reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0762YZ9JM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20