Whats your white whale?

[deuc224]

Erdinger dunkel clone. Just cant nail it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Kulmbacher Monchshof Kellerbier. Seriously my favorite beer in the whole world. I would love to clone it but can't get hold of any and their website doesn't say much about grain bill or hops. I've tried other kellerbiers, zwickels, etc. and none of them even come close to the creamy, malty character. I love this beer and would give anything to be able to duplicate it in my home brewery. I would sip on a bottle while eating a döner kebap and walking around Esslingen's Altstadt after work, just after sunset, all by myself just marveling at the architecture and pondering the city's medieval history. Very happy times.

My other white whale is authentic Schwäbisch Döner. I've tried to make it a few times but so far I haven't been able to recreate the experience.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am not sure I would call it a White Whale yet, because I have never tried to brew it, but St. Bernardus Abt 12 is a target and motivator of mine. Several years ago I was able to sample some next to Westvleteren 12 ("best beer in the world") and I preferred the St. Bernardus a bit more (nice that I can get a 750ml bottle for $12 at the local Total Wine!).

Instead of jumping right into trying to brew a clone of St. Bernardus, I have instead been focusing on getting a better understanding of brewing Belgian beers. I have brewed a number of beers using the Westmalle strain (which should be similar to what St. Bernardus uses...my understanding is they are using a relative of the original Westvleteren strain and Westvleteren switched to getting yeast from Westmalle when they took the brewing back). Along the way I have learned how much I like Dubbels!

 

[Monmouth00]

I haven't even tried a lager yet. I'm not set up for temperature controlled fermentation.

I'll consider myself a good homebrewer when I am set up, and can consistently crank out clean, clear, crisp, repeatable light lagers.

My holy grail.

 

[user 263363]

Mine would be a dank, sticky, clear but dark double IPA. Something along the lines of G'knight from Oskar Blues. I haven't even attempted one yet as my hoppy beers still need some work.

 

[JAReeves]

Mine would be a dank, sticky, clear but dark double IPA. Something along the lines of G'knight from Oskar Blues. I haven't even attempted one yet as my hoppy beers still need some work.

Something that changed my last IPA radically was dip-hopping instead of whirlpool/hop-stand. Here it is:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/736484/st-augustine-of-hoppi-dipa
The hop stand is actually the dip-hop. I put hops in the fermenter while the wort is coming up to a boil. When wort hits 170F, I put 1 1/2 quarts of hot wort in the fermenter and sealed it up. The cat pee aroma coming out of the airlock was intense! But the cat pee aroma in the beer was almost non-existent, and the pine-citrus aroma and flavor were fantastic. Several of my beer tasters felt it was the best iteration of this beer that I have made since I started making it four years ago. Anyway, after the boil, I ran the chilled beer straight to the fermenter on top of the dip hop, finished the chill to 65F and pitched the yeast. After a week, moved it to the keg for the dry hop.

The dry hop is done by having them in a CO2-purged keg, then closed transfer beer, and immediate chill in the keezer to 36F, after 2 days I put it on gas and force carbed at 30PSI overnight, then turned it down to 12PSI for a week.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Clones for two of my favorite beers...

1. Fuller's London Pride - followed the recipe exactly per the "Can You Brew It" podcast but the marmalade element of the bottled version never appears. Gonna try A09 Pub Ale yeast next as somewhere I read that while 002/1968 is a Fuller's strain, it is not what they use for ESB/Pride/Chiswick and A09 is.​

​

All we know for certain about 002 and 1968 is that genetically they are part of the Whitbread family - and that they taste nothing like Fuller's yeast. If it's not got that orangey marmalade, then it's not Fuller's. And Fuller's went down to a single strain when they converted to conicals in the late 70s, so you can't make a "it's part of a multistrain" argument. I don't know what the story is, whether they came from Fuller's originaly but mutated and lost the orange somewhere on the way to WL/Wyeast's freezers, or they just never came from Fuller's in the first place - but 002 and 1968 are nothing like the real Fuller's yeast.

Here in the UK it's easy, as 1856 is readily available from supermarkets and is bottle-conditioned with the production yeast, but reportedly A09 is close.

If you've not seen this thread, it has actual Fuller's production records and down-thread there is an ESB close that is reportedly close, based on the original brewsheets.

For me, its a Belgian Quad (Strong Dark Ale). I've tried to brew one 5 times now and each time it's been, well, unsatisfactory. Too thin. Too bland. Too sweet. Too hot. For some reason, I can't figure that puppy out.

I am not sure I would call it a White Whale yet, because I have never tried to brew it, but St. Bernardus Abt 12 is a target and motivator of mine. Several years ago I was able to sample some next to Westvleteren 12 ("best beer in the world") and I preferred the St. Bernardus a bit more (nice that I can get a 750ml bottle for $12 at the local Total Wine!).

Having tasted the Big 3 side-by-side on more than one occasion, personally I prefer Rochefort 10... But if that's your thing then you'll enjoy the Pursuit of Abbeyness blog which includes iterations of a beer inspired by Rochefort 10, and this AHA thread based on a brewsheet from Rochefort :
https://pursuitofabbeyness.com/2018/02/12/brew-day-pursuit-of-abbeyness-xii/https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=30994.0

 

[user 263363]

Something that changed my last IPA radically was dip-hopping instead of whirlpool/hop-stand. Here it is:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/736484/st-augustine-of-hoppi-dipa
The hop stand is actually the dip-hop. I put hops in the fermenter while the wort is coming up to a boil. When wort hits 170F, I put 1 1/2 quarts of hot wort in the fermenter and sealed it up. The cat pee aroma coming out of the airlock was intense! But the cat pee aroma in the beer was almost non-existent, and the pine-citrus aroma and flavor were fantastic. Several of my beer tasters felt it was the best iteration of this beer that I have made since I started making it four years ago. Anyway, after the boil, I ran the chilled beer straight to the fermenter on top of the dip hop, finished the chill to 65F and pitched the yeast. After a week, moved it to the keg for the dry hop.

The dry hop is done by having them in a CO2-purged keg, then closed transfer beer, and immediate chill in the keezer to 36F, after 2 days I put it on gas and force carbed at 30PSI overnight, then turned it down to 12PSI for a week.

That is a very interesting technique and I can see where it would definitely get me where I want to go. Thanks for the information!

 

[bwible]

I've yet to brew a hefeweizen I thought nailed my preferences. I like a lot of banana but it still needs balance with clove. I either end up with too much banana or too much clove. I haven't found the right fermentation temperature profile for what I consider the perfect character but I also haven't brewed enough to give myself the opportunity.

Weast 3068 produces more banana at higher temps and more clove at lower temps. I also like more banana than clove. Sometimes I get these and all I taste is clove - those are the ones I don’t like. I still say the best hefe I ever made was during my first year or two of brewing. 100% wheat dme, hallertauer hops, fermented in July back in a time and place where I didn’t have air conditioning. It was probably 90 degrees or more.

 

[bwible]

I haven't even tried a lager yet. I'm not set up for temperature controlled fermentation.

I'll consider myself a good homebrewer when I am set up, and can consistently crank out clean, clear, crisp, repeatable light lagers.

My holy grail.

Lagers are certainly not a standard to judge somebody’s ability by. I know plenty of brewers who do not make lagers and are excellent brewers. I know people who only make English Ales. I know people who only make Belgian beers. I know people who only make pale ales and IPAs.
I agree, I would also like to get set up and be able to make lagers. Right now I am running a commercial glass front fridge for bottles and a 2 tap kegerator in addition to our house fridge. So we’re running 3 fridges. I don’t know if I can justify buying a 4th fridge to make lager. And if I did, my wife would probably commandeer it and start putting food in it. So I don’t consider anybody not a good brewer because they don’t have equipment or facilities to lager.
I’m researching these experiments and threads about fermenting lagers with 34/70 warm. People claim to be getting great results. And I’ve been reading all about cream ales, which was the American brewers response to lager beer.

 

[bwible]

Truth^^^

I've generally been successful in (eventually) being able to brew a given style that eventually meets my goal.

BUT.... the perfect Helles has always been my elusive butterfly. I've got all the ingredients set to go next weekend, and will be building and decanting a 2+ liter fresh starter of 1st generation Ayinger strain yeast starting Tuesday to be at krausen by Friday with 2 growth stages.

Wish me luck.

You have to at least step mash. The Germans do a decoction mash. That’s the key to the maltiness.

 

[cmac62]

I’m researching these experiments and threads about fermenting lagers with 34/70 warm. People claim to be getting great results. And I’ve been reading all about cream ales, which was the American brewers response to lager beer.

I've brewed this a couple of times and it has turned out great. Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale) I have also used 34/70 warm and it was OK, next time I'm going to try Lutra Kveik at 85 and see how that turns out. It is supposed to be very lager like at those temps.

 

[bwible]

I've brewed this a couple of times and it has turned out great. Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale) I have also used 34/70 warm and it was OK, next time I'm going to try Lutra Kveik at 85 and see how that turns out. It is supposed to be very lager like at those temps.

Thats a pretty good looking recipe. I’ve never used corn and rice. I just use corn.
With that much adjunct, I would think about replacing some of that 2 row with some 6 row.

 

[cmac62]

Thats a pretty good looking recipe. I’ve never used corn and rice. I just use corn.
With that much adjunct, I would think about replacing some of that 2 row with some 6 row.

Or, a 1/2 tsp of Amylase. I didn't the last time I brewed it and it still came in under 1010. I think I did 5 lb pilsner, 2 lb flaked corn and 14 oz of Uncle Benz instant rice (that was the size of the box). A super pale light and tasty cream ale. Good stuff Maynard.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

With that much adjunct, I would think about replacing some of that 2 row with some 6 row.

The common North American 2-Row is generally as high or higher in diastatic power than 6-row. It was bred that way decades ago under programs by the big brewers to support 50% adjunct lagers. Their goal was to be able to use the bigger and more consistent kernels of 2-row but also have the diastatic power of a 6-row. There is generally a massive different in diastatic power between NA and European base malts (and some of the NA craft malts).

 

[bracconiere]

Ahh okay, so what do you call a NEIPA made in California?

Chico Brew?

Schwäbisch Döner. I've tried to make it a few times but so far I haven't been able to recreate the experience.

LOL, i'm not sure why? prison time?

 

[monkeymath]

My other white whale is authentic Schwäbisch Döner. I've tried to make it a few times but so far I haven't been able to recreate the experience.

I've never heard of such a thing as "Schwäbisch Döner", but given that the Schwaben (the people) are generally known to be notoriously thrifty and cheap, I'd have to guess it was a flatbread with leftover ham?

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've never heard of such a thing as "Schwäbisch Döner", but given that the Schwaben (the people) are generally known to be notoriously thrifty and cheap, I'd have to guess it was a flatbread with leftover ham?

Echt Schwäbisch Döner is made from scratch every morning with fresh, seasoned raw meat piled high on a vertical spit and served on fresh-made Fladenbrot baked with a sprinkle of schwarzkummel on top.

Far from being cheap, Schwabs only open up their wallets for the good stuff, i.e., Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Bosch, Maultaschen, Weissbier, etc.

 

[cmac62]

Echt Schwäbisch Döner is made from scratch every morning with fresh, seasoned raw meat piled high on a vertical spit and served on fresh-made Fladenbrot baked with a sprinkle of schwarzkummel on top.

Far from being cheap, Schwabs only open up their wallets for the good stuff, i.e., Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Bosch, Maultaschen, Weissbier, etc.

Sounds like Swarma or El Pastor, I bet it is good too. (drooling)

 

[Barbarossa]

I'm too new to have a white whale, but I can say that a red beer escaped me.

 

[cmac62]

^^^ 100 % RedX and your there.

 

[Barbarossa]

I've yet to brew a hefeweizen I thought nailed my preferences. I like a lot of banana but it still needs balance with clove. I either end up with too much banana or too much clove. I haven't found the right fermentation temperature profile for what I consider the perfect character but I also haven't brewed enough to give myself the opportunity.

I felt the same while using wyeast 3068. Then I used wyeast 3058 Bavarian wheat.

 

[JAReeves]

I'm too new to have a white whale, but I can say that a red beer escaped me.

Try this, I get constant requests to make it. Probably the most popular beer I brew, across multiple palates.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/842897/red-rye-at-night
Peace,

Reevesie

 

[FromZwolle]

the perfect english brown.

I'm way to picky with certain styles. i've made a half dozen 'good' ones, but never quite right.

 

[anotherbeerplease]

I want the perfect Oktoberfest. The only commercial example I really like is Ayinger.

I take my seasons, and my fall beer, seriously and so far my oktoberfests have been totally drinkable but they have not offered the deeply toasted malt lager flavor I am looking for.

 

[layd0g]

When I first started brewing I followed and extract recipe that included fermenting with strawberries. It was absolutely amazing! A solid blonde ale with a whisper of strawberry at the end. Since switching to AG, I've never been able to get that recipe down. I try about once a year and it escapes me yet again.

 

[Brooothru]

When I first started brewing I followed and extract recipe that included fermenting with strawberries. It was absolutely amazing! A solid blonde ale with a whisper of strawberry at the end. Since switching to AG, I've never been able to get that recipe down. I try about once a year and it escapes me yet again.

There's always the option of brewing an extract, even though you've switched to all grain. I'll do it maybe once every other year or so if I need a quick fix to a "low beer" light on the kegerator. It's still a valid way to make beer, although a bit more restrictive in recipes and more expensive for ingredients. OTOH, the brew day sure goes a lot faster.

 

[layd0g]

There's always the option of brewing an extract, even though you've switched to all grain. I'll do it maybe once every other year or so if I need a quick fix to a "low beer" light on the kegerator. It's still a valid way to make beer, although a bit more restrictive in recipes and more expensive for ingredients. OTOH, the brew day sure goes a lot faster.

I know, and I've thought about that a few times... I just really want to get an AG version nailed down.

 

[duffy5018]

When I first started brewing I followed and extract recipe that included fermenting with strawberries. It was absolutely amazing! A solid blonde ale with a whisper of strawberry at the end. Since switching to AG, I've never been able to get that recipe down. I try about once a year and it escapes me yet again.

I wonder if you can brew one and use some Strata hops in a dry hop. I have yet to use them, but they supposedly have a strawberry flavor to them.

I may actually try this. I've been going around and around on what I want to brew next. Be a good way to test drive the Strata...

 

[rtstrider]

Mine is a nice lager with repitched w34/70

 

[layd0g]

I wonder if you can brew one and use some Strata hops in a dry hop. I have yet to use them, but they supposedly have a strawberry flavor to them.

I may actually try this. I've been going around and around on what I want to brew next. Be a good way to test drive the Strata...

Oh that's an interesting idea... if you do brew one please report back. I'll add this to the list for sure!