What's with All the Enzyme Threads?

[TexLaw]

To begin: Yes, I am in a ranting mood today. I apologize.

Now, what's with all these enzyme threads? Recently, I've seen all sorts of talk about using alpha amylase and Beano. I know those always have been the point of discussion to some extent, but I've seen it much more. Now, today, I see a thread about an enzyme to prevent or dispose of diacetyl.

What are you people doing to your mashes that you can't get the fermentable wort that you want? What are you people doing to your dear little yeasties that they won't finish the job you've asked of them? Why do you people want to make beer like a frappin' beer factory and not actually brew like a brewer? What's going on around here?


TL

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

To begin: Yes, I am in a ranting mood today. I apologize.

Now, what's with all these enzyme threads? Recently, I've seen all sorts of talk about using alpha amylase and Beano. I know those always have been the point of discussion to some extent, but I've seen it much more. Now, today, I see a thread about an enzyme to prevent or dispose of diacetyl.

What are you people doing to your mashes that you can't get the fermentable wort that you want? What are you people doing to your dear little yeasties that they won't finish the job you've asked of them? Why do you people want to make beer like a frappin' beer factory and not actually brew like a brewer? What's going on around here?


TL

I'd agree, don't we brew because we find it fun and intriguing?

When I start to get all fancy-like with my process, I have to remind myself that brewing has been taking place for thousands of years with much less equipment and science that we have and know today, and I would bet that they made some damn good suds in the old-country.

Of course I understand the pursuit of creating the perfect beer, but if one thinks that the large scale breweries are making perfect beer then one needs to rethink their motives for homebrewing.

IMO the perfect beer is a homebrewed beer that you like, not what pleases the masses.

On that note, and to end with...The Masses are Asses!

 

[netjunk1e]

How else am I going to clone Bud Light without using enzymes?

Good thing I am not actually going to clone Bud Light.

 

[passedpawn]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/miller-lite-really-triple-hopped-123937/#post1381323

 

[farmbrewernw]

That is probably my main aggravation about this forum sometimes, people just try to make brewing too difficult. If a lot of those people saw what we do on the pro-side they would relax.

 

[netjunk1e]

But on the pro side (Light BMC) they really do use cultured enzymes.

 

[annasdadhockey]

I started one a few days ago. Normally I wouldn't care, but I'm donating 10 gallons of brew to a local event and don't want my beer tasting like ass when all these nice drunks drink it. I do enjoy brewing...I also enjoy people enjoying what I make. Sorry.

 

[lamarguy]

Now, what's with all these enzyme threads? Recently, I've seen all sorts of talk about using alpha amylase and Beano. I know those always have been the point of discussion to some extent, but I've seen it much more. Now, today, I see a thread about an enzyme to prevent or dispose of diacetyl.

As the guy promoting the diacetyl reduction enzyme, I'm going to answer your question with a question...

Why wouldn't I want to avoid a diacetyl rest and speed up the lager conditioning process? If an enzyme can shorten a larger fermentation by a week, then I'm interested.

 

[Brew-Happy]

To begin: Yes, I am in a ranting mood today. I apologize.

Now, what's with all these enzyme threads? Recently, I've seen all sorts of talk about using alpha amylase and Beano. I know those always have been the point of discussion to some extent, but I've seen it much more. Now, today, I see a thread about an enzyme to prevent or dispose of diacetyl.

What are you people doing to your mashes that you can't get the fermentable wort that you want? What are you people doing to your dear little yeasties that they won't finish the job you've asked of them? Why do you people want to make beer like a frappin' beer factory and not actually brew like a brewer? What's going on around here?


TL

Hmm, I wonder if they make a moodiness enzyme?



Oh, wait. It's called chocolate nevermind

 

[Nyxator]

I really don't have a stake in this race, except to say that I've used alpha amylase in the past to get better efficiency. It was mostly in my attempt to track down my efficiency problems.

I can understand using that to get a more fermentable wort, but I have no earthly idea why anyone would use Beano during fermentation. I can't imagine that the final product would taste good.

 

[KayaBrew]

That is probably my main aggravation about this forum sometimes, people just try to make brewing too difficult. If a lot of those people saw what we do on the pro-side they would relax.

Sorry, but not ALL of us are pros.

 

[annasdadhockey]

Sorry, but not ALL of us are pros.

Amen sister!!!

 

[s3n8]

I thought adding beano would cause it to really dry out. I mean really. Like below 1.000.

I would probably rather drink a brew thats a little heavy and sweet than malt colored rubbing alcohol. Thats me though. I have seen a couple of the threads you speak of, and thought about saying something, but held back as I have no direct experience with Alpha Amalayse or beano.

 

[Revvy]

What the heck's wrong with doing a diacetyl rest???? You take the beer out of the cold for a couple days and put it back in...that's hard? And you don't NEED to add a bunch of chinese manufactured chemicals that have god knows what else in them (remember dog food, children's toys and milk products?)

Reinheitsgebot Rules!!!!!

 

[bkov]

i wonder if a beer mash really low tastes much different then a beer mashed really high but uses enzyme in secondary? if they end up at same FG

 

[beerocd]

Reinheitsgebot Rules!!!!!

Easy there, I like my Hefeweizens.

-OCD

P.S. - It's about the same as why Catholics eat fish on Fridays. Totally bogus - follow the money.

 

[Red Clay]

P.S. - It's about the same as why Catholics eat fish on Fridays. Totally bogus - follow the money.

Or maybe they eat fish on Friday's so that annoying people won't ask to come over for dinner and drink their beer.

I'd agree, don't we brew because we find it fun and intriguing?

When I start to get all fancy-like with my process, I have to remind myself that brewing has been taking place for thousands of years with much less equipment and science that we have and know today, and I would bet that they made some damn good suds in the old-country.

I find it interesting that people are getting all arrogant about how complicated others are making their brewing. Jeesh. Maybe they aren't brewing gods like you...or maybe they really are smarter and know something you don't...or maybe they are just better looking. Who knows, but why do you care? I'd bet they find playing with enzymes in brewing "fun and intriguing."

RDWHAHB.

Oh, and by the way, from what I've read a lot of "old-country" beer was pretty wretched....while it's fun to romanticize history, turns out living before antibiotics, electricity, birth control and deodorant pretty much sucked.


Warning - This post was not approved by the White House press secretary.

 

[Parker36]

I find it interesting that people are getting all arrogant about how complicated others are making their brewing. Jeesh. Maybe they aren't brewing gods like you...or maybe they really are smarter and know something you don't...or maybe they are just better looking. Who knows, but why do you care? I'd bet they find playing with enzymes in brewing "fun and intriguing."

Agreed. There really isn't much of a need for a HERMS or crazy fermentation chambers or brew sheds or lots of stuff, but people like to take their hobby in different directions or merge with other interests. Good for them I say

 

[ChshreCat]

Some people just need some enhancement. Who are we to argue? It's their life, after all.

Oh wait... that's Enzyte....

nevermind.

 

[david_42]

If you are making a GF beer, using alpha amylase makes sense.
If you want a low-carb beer, alpha galactosidase is about the only way to go.

 

[HotbreakHotel]

Thanks for starting this thread, Tex -- I just learned new info on enzymes!!

To all the "enzyme detractors" I'm having trouble understanding people getting mad because someone else wants to learn something or use an enzyme or whatever.

 

[s3n8]

Thanks for starting this thread, Tex -- I just learned new info on enzymes!!

To all the "enzyme detractors" I'm having trouble understanding people getting mad because someone else wants to learn something or use an enzyme or whatever.

I dont think anyone is mad, but more like people feel that others may be getting bad advice. At least thats how I feel about it. I read a thread where a big beer finished in the 1.025 range, and someone advised adding beano to unstick the fermentation. A. I dont think it was stuck, but rather done. and B. I think its going to completely dry the beer out and its going to turn into something worse than if he did nothing at all. Learning is great. Experience gained through bad advice is still experience I guess.

 

[Orfy]

No further with the sarcastic insults please.

 

[Revvy]

I don't think anyone's mad, I just think Tx, and those of us who are regulars are curious about the sudden Pattern on here about them. It IS unusual to see so many on here in the course of a couple days, when there are rarely any on here.

When something like that happens it usually means something is being talked about somewhere else inthe brewing community, like on podcasts in BYO or Zymurgy, or something....Like when all of a sudden all these "No chill" threads exploded on here, that was triggered by a BYO article.

My biggest concern is that new brewers who understand very little about their processes and brewing in general start panicking about stuff like this, and think they need to do it, and start messing around. Like the olive aeration threads. People start messing around on their first batch and not understanding anything think "well if 1 tiny drop of olive oil works, 1 tsp MUST work better," then start an is my beer ruined thread. (true story).

If someone thinks an airlock stopping bubbling means their fermentation is stuck, and doesn't take a hydro reading, and dumps beano in their beer willy nilly, they are going to be in for a surprise...especially if had they taken a reading would have found out their beer is fine.

$.02

 

[rocketman768]

Let people experiment. If Thomas Edison had listened when everybody told him, "electricity making light? Why don't you just stick to gas lamps?", things would be a lot less interesting. People are naturally curious, so don't discourage that curiosity. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it the absolute correct way to do it.

By the way, why is everyone so concerned with the Reinheitsgebot? It wasn't signed into law to protect the "purity" of beer, but to prevent shortages and price hiking of wheat and rye to bakers, so that people could eat affordibly.

Let people try beano; let people try amylase. They will either learn from their mistakes, or make good discoveries, and we all learn the same lessons as well! For example, from the beano threads I've learned that adding it to any normal beer at any time is pretty much a fatal mistake. I've also learned that amylase can save a batch of beer when used properly.

 

[lamarguy]

What the heck's wrong with doing a diacetyl rest???? You take the beer out of the cold for a couple days and put it back in...that's hard? And you don't NEED to add a bunch of chinese manufactured chemicals that have god knows what else in them (remember dog food, children's toys and milk products?)

No one said there is anything wrong with a diacetyl rest. But, why perform one if you can prevent the precursor in the first place? Makes perfect sense.

And the acetolactate enzyme I speak of is already used in a number of beers across the globe, so I guess we're all about to die from Chinese lead poisoning...

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

My biggest concern is that new brewers who understand very little about their processes and brewing in general start panicking about stuff like this, and think they need to do it, and start messing around. Like the olive aeration threads. People start messing around on their first batch and not understanding anything think "well if 1 tiny drop of olive oil works, 1 tsp MUST work better," then start an is my beer ruined thread. (true story).

It is up to new brewers to exercise due diligence and research the site. I don't see why more experienced brewers should keep quiet about certain brewing practices just in case newcomers might read it. I have no dog in this fight, but there is no one single way we must brew our beer here. All methods and practices have a place on the forum.

Take myself as an example. I am still a brewing noob, but as far as lagering and a diacetyl rest is concerned, I am a TOTAL noob! It's just not in my area of interest at the moment. However, I can read. I have seen the other threads, and from those, I now know that beano is an option, but other replies have stated it is a bad one. It's all opinions and personal experience. This is how forums work!

If you are a newcomer, and can't be bothered to read up, then don't bother with brewing at all. Brewing is easy, but if you fail to study then failing is an even easier option.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

My biggest concern is that new brewers who understand very little about their processes and brewing in general start panicking about stuff like this, and think they need to do it, and start messing around. Like the olive aeration threads.

Sounds like a good way to gain first-hand experience and learn. Like the Olive oil aeration. Nothing wrong with that imo...it can be a good thing.

IMO it all comes down to; 'Why do you brew?' For the vast majority of us it's for personal enjoyment and if trying out new things gets you there then it's all good.

 

[JVD_X]

To begin: Yes, I am in a ranting mood today. I apologize.

Now, what's with all these enzyme threads? Recently, I've seen all sorts of talk about using alpha amylase and Beano. I know those always have been the point of discussion to some extent, but I've seen it much more. Now, today, I see a thread about an enzyme to prevent or dispose of diacetyl.

What are you people doing to your mashes that you can't get the fermentable wort that you want? What are you people doing to your dear little yeasties that they won't finish the job you've asked of them? Why do you people want to make beer like a frappin' beer factory and not actually brew like a brewer? What's going on around here?


TL

My issue was that I wanted to mitigate a mistake but I think there is a lot of information out there. Plus, brewing has "gone up-scale" so to speak. Do you think Blichmann would have had a market 15 years ago? Maybe - maybe not.

So, what do you do when you end up with a beer that is not quite what you wanted? You can either just deal with it and brew another or -do what I did- try and find a solution. In my case, I can trace the issue to a RIMS heater problem. That is now fixed. Adding the AE seems to have helped.

IMO, these threads are a result of this time of year. People have been brewing in warmer weather and now that it's getting cold fermentation are not as steady and people hurry their brew process to get out of the cold/rain. So naturally, their process is not as refined. However this is just my opinion and not based on any facts.