Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

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jturman35 said:
Ok so I am planning on brewing this beer next weekend. I am going with 8lbs each of MO/Pilsner and 3 packs of D-180.

My LHBS only had one pack of WLP530 from February 5th which expires in Aug. What is the ideal step up process to get this yeast up to 350 B cells over a weeks time? I know yeast health is the most important part of this beer. I only one have one 2L flask.

Any suggestions?
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A 1L starter at 1.036 (3.6 oz DME) spits out 355B cells using Brewer's Friend calculator on a stir plate. You could build 1.5L starter and then save some for later.
 
Using BS and Feb 5th as the package date I end up with 312b cells doing a 2L starter.

I checked BF and a 2L starter I get 298b cells. I need around 337-350b cells depending which one you use.

I only have a 2L flask. I’m guess I can just do a step starter of 2L and decant after a 24hr period and add another 1L step starter.
 
jturman35 said:
Using BS and Feb 5th as the package date I end up with 312b cells doing a 2L starter.

I checked BF and a 2L starter I get 298b cells. I need around 337-350b cells depending which one you use.

I only have a 2L flask. I’m guess I can just do a step starter of 2L and decant after a 24hr period and add another 1L step starter.
Click to expand...

You could also do a shaken starter. Since the theoretical maximum cell count for 1L of wort is around 200B cells, you could make a small 2L batch of wort with the same composition as the main batch, wait until it is at high Krausen, then pitch the whole thing.

Ever heard of the “Shaken, Not Stirred” starter? Adding the part about making a mini batch of starter wort is my own idea but other than that look it up and see what you think.

You could use a 1 gallon sealable container as your vessel.
 
When doing a step starter its better to do a small starter then step up to a larger. I would do a 0.5L of 1.030 wort for a couple days then step up to a 2L of 1.040 wort. My last packet of 530 was a dud. Bought it to make Leffe clone. Switched gears and made a Saison with some 3726 I had in the fridge. Best of luck!
 
Really hope this yeast is up to the task. I built a step starter over a week period doing (3)1L starters. The last starter the night before brew day ran out of dme and used some Pilsner malt. Starters never had any sign of a krausen however mine rarely do. Preparing for blow off!

IMG_6397.JPG
IMG_6421.JPG
 
I used an extreme method above to avoid blow off and only added 6 drops of ferm cap and had zero krausen enter my blowoff tube. Beer after one week is at already done at 1.013. I let this ramp up to 82 degrees.

I brewed a Belgian Blonde Ale once before using this yeast and lost a ton due to blow off which is why I went with the 1” tube above. Hydro sample was amazing, little “hot” but this one is going to be special!
 
Worth having it side by side with a Rochefort 10 if you can find it easily.

I could organise a weekend in Poperinge with a trip to the monastery for less than US$165! :)
 
Just put my latest batch into a keg. I'm going to let it cold condition for a few months then bottle it. This is my 3rd time making it. First time turned out great, 2nd time it fermented down way to low, like 1.005, so it was too boozy, this time my OG came in quite low at 1.073, but it finished at 1.010. The sample I had when kegging it was pretty good, so I'm hoping for good things out this one. Cheers!
 
Curious why you are cold conditioning in the keg and then bottling? Mine has been in the keg almost 3 weeks and trying to keep my hands off until the 6 month mark.
 
applescrap said:
Is the first recipe still the one? Thanks! Amazed at the simplicity of the recipe.
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Even CSI, who sells syrup, later reduced the syrup in that batch size from 2.5 lbs to 2 lbs. And you can mess around with the malts. To me, an all pilsner recipe is just as good as the (more or less) half pilsner, half pale ale.

Great recipe.
 
Maybe mine is still green at 6 months in the keezer @ 39 but still not anywhere close to the original. I may try the adjunct version on my next attempt.
 
JFTR, Roncoroni and Verstrepen measure the stats at :

Westvleteren Blond : 5.8%, 8 EBC, 30 IBU, 47kcal/100ml
Westvleteren 8 : 8.0%, 62 EBC, 23 IBU, 67kcal/100ml
Westvleteren 12 : 10.2%, 61 EBC, 29 IBU, 80kcal/100ml
St Bernardus Abt 12 : 10.0%, 64 EBC, 14 IBU, 74kcal/100ml
Rochefort 10 : 11.3%, 76 EBC, 10 IBU, 76kcal/100ml
Niewhuys Alpaide : 10.0%, 65 EBC, 29 IBU, 72kcal/100ml
La Trappe Dubbel : 7.0%, 79 EBC, 12 IBU, 61kcal/100ml

So think of Alpaide as the diet version of Westvleteren 12! Interesting that their work on flavour compound analysis (which goes way beyond the basics listed above) puts La Trappe Dubbel relatively close to the big boys, albeit closest to Rochefort 10 out of the Big Three.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
JFTR, Roncoroni and Verstrepen measure the stats at :

<tt>Westvleteren Blond : 5.8%, 8 EBC, 30 IBU, 47kcal/100ml
Westvleteren 8 : 8.0%, 62 EBC, 23 IBU, 67kcal/100ml
Westvleteren 12 : 10.2%, 61 EBC, 29 IBU, 80kcal/100ml
St Bernardus Abt 12 : 10.0%, 64 EBC, 14 IBU, 74kcal/100ml
Rochefort 10 : 11.3%, 76 EBC, 10 IBU, 76kcal/100ml
Niewhuys Alpaide : 10.0%, 65 EBC, 29 IBU, 72kcal/100ml
La Trappe Dubbel : 7.0%, 79 EBC, 12 IBU, 61kcal/100ml</tt>

So think of Alpaide as the diet version of Westvleteren 12! Interesting that their work on flavour compound analysis (which goes way beyond the basics listed above) puts La Trappe Dubbel relatively close to the big boys, albeit closest to Rochefort 10 out of the Big Three.
Click to expand...


Wow! I was just looking at that book on Amazon!
 
I'm curious on folks water profile. On Bru'n Water I'm looking at the Chimay water profile. However I use RO water. To achieve this profile, especially the Bicarbonate ppm, I need to use 1.25lbs of acid malt, about 5%, which my understanding is a lot and would significantly change the flavor profile. Any thoughts on the subject?
IMG_20200114_210847.jpeg
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I’m very uneducated on water but I always thought Martin said you weren’t suppose to adjust for Bicarbonate? I know it’s a buffer but one should adjust sulfate and Cholride and leave the bicarbonate alone.

Keep in mind I have brewed two quads, one this exact recipe and both mediocre at best. I would cut the D-180 down to 2-2.5 lbs at most. I did 3 and it’s just too much.
 
jturman35 said:
I’m very uneducated on water but I always thought Martin said you weren’t suppose to adjust for Bicarbonate? I know it’s a buffer but one should adjust sulfate and Cholride and leave the bicarbonate alone.

Keep in mind I have brewed two quads, one this exact recipe and both mediocre at best. I would cut the D-180 down to 2-2.5 lbs at most. I did 3 and it’s just too much.
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I got 2lbs. Most ever for me. I'll just stick with my house profile. Might play with this later with experimental brews.
 
I was starting to wonder if this beer would come around. Finally after almost 6 months in the keezer it’s starting to hit its stride! Getting impatient waiting on this one, it’s been a sweet mess until this point.

Here is a pic after a few sips and warmed up. Really turning into a good beer. Just wished I’d bottled a few and set them in warmer temp for faster aging.

IMG_8781.JPG
 
PianoMan said:
I'm curious on folks water profile. On Bru'n Water I'm looking at the Chimay water profile. However I use RO water. To achieve this profile, especially the Bicarbonate ppm, I need to use 1.25lbs of acid malt, about 5%, which my understanding is a lot and would significantly change the flavor profile. Any thoughts on the subject?View attachment 662005View attachment 662006
Click to expand...

Why not use acid instead of that much acid malt? I use phosphoric and in my big batches it takes me about 5ml. I usually blend my water 50/50 for these styles. My water is pretty hard here.
 
Dog House Brew said:
Why not use acid instead of that much acid malt? I use phosphoric and in my big batches it takes me about 5ml. I usually blend my water 50/50 for these styles. My water is pretty hard here.
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I'm just digging for info. I never use acid malt but also never attempted this water profile.

Probably going to dump another batch on this yeast cake so will give it a go. And yes will use acid instead.
 
PianoMan said:
I'm just digging for info. I never use acid malt but also never attempted this water profile.

Probably going to dump another batch on this yeast cake so will give it a go. And yes will use acid instead.
Click to expand...
I think the profile you showed w additions looks fine to me. When looking at profiles from areas, I wonder if that is what they use? I'm going to order my syrup tonight. I'll have to read through the thread to find what iteration everyone is using. Mine is like 15# Pils and 2# of 180 @ 36ibu.
 
Dog House Brew said:
I think the profile you showed w additions looks fine to me. When looking at profiles from areas, I wonder if that is what they use? I'm going to order my syrup tonight. I'll have to read through the thread to find what iteration everyone is using. Mine is like 15# Pils and 2# of 180 @ 36ibu.
Click to expand...
I believe the water profiles are analysis of the local water supply. A bunch of research was done decades ago concerning water.
 
Belgian dark strong ( BDS ) and dopplebock are my favorite beers ( see my avatar picture ) . I brew the BDS using homemade dark candi syrup.
I want to brew the original recipe on page 1 of this thread. The recipe asks for 2.5 lbs of D-180 commercial candi syrup and some Clear wort boil-down.
Boiling down some runoff = reduce a solution of maltose + nitrogen to produce Maillard reactions and that's how candi syrup is made.
So the recipe asks for 2 additions of candi syrup, the commercial D-180 and the reduced wort . Is it correct ?

Jacques
 
eimar said:
Belgian dark strong ( BDS ) and dopplebock are my favorite beers ( see my avatar picture ) . I brew the BDS using homemade dark candi syrup.
I want to brew the original recipe on page 1 of this thread. The recipe asks for 2.5 lbs of D-180 commercial candi syrup and some Clear wort boil-down.
Boiling down some runoff = reduce a solution of maltose + nitrogen to produce Maillard reactions and that's how candi syrup is made.
So the recipe asks for 2 additions of candi syrup, the commercial D-180 and the reduced wort . Is it correct ?

Jacques
Click to expand...

Yes, but it's debatable whether boiling down some of the first runnings into maltose syrup is worth the trouble, although there is no reason not to try it at least once to see for yourself. BTW, CSI, the original poster with the recipe, later reduced the 2.5 pounds of D-180 to 2 pounds, and CSI is in the business of selling syrup.

For me, 2 lbs. of D-180 in a 5 or 5.5 gallons batch is plenty, but it's a matter of taste.
 
Kee said:
Yes, but it's debatable whether boiling down some of the first runnings into maltose syrup is worth the trouble, although there is no reason not to try it at least once to see for yourself. BTW, CSI, the original poster with the recipe, later reduced the 2.5 pounds of D-180 to 2 pounds, and CSI is in the business of selling syrup.

For me, 2 lbs. of D-180 in a 5 or 5.5 gallons batch is plenty, but it's a matter of taste.
Click to expand...

I agree, 2 lbs of candi syrup is a lot. I use 1 lb of homemade candi syrup + 1 lb of pure cane sugar ( for a dry finish ).
As you say, there is no reason not to try.
I might make the maltose candi syrup in advance by reducing some water + light malt extract.

Jacques
 
I'm very curious on where the front end fruitiness with the real W12 comes from. The syrup? The yeast? Small fruit additions? Anyone got a clear picture of it?
 

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