Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

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I just got some shipped to me interesting it was bottled in October why do we age our clones a year or more when the brewery does not
 
Finished the first batch over a year ago. It really is a great beer. My first batch was only 3.5 gallons. I used the single malt version of the recipe on the CSI website. I started a 5 gallon batch this time around using the two malt version. I encourage anyone exploring this style of beer to brew this one. I will brew this style every year. :mug:

20161124_192928_2.jpg
 
jtp137 said:
I just got some shipped to me interesting it was bottled in October why do we age our clones a year or more when the brewery does not
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Try the clone after a month and after then two years, and you'll know why ageing is a good thing. Even the ones you purchase will improve greatly if you save them for a year or two.

I recently tried a clone I made more than two years ago and it was quite delicious. I'm glad I saved some of this long.
 
Searched this thread but didn't see anything...

I assume this would be fairly easy to convert to extract, since pilsner and light DME/LME are pretty easy to come by.

Anyone tried it and have any advice?
 
deadwolfbones said:
Searched this thread but didn't see anything...



I assume this would be fairly easy to convert to extract, since pilsner and light DME/LME are pretty easy to come by.



Anyone tried it and have any advice?
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The only thing that would worry me is the ferment ability with 2.5 pound of d-180 you are around 14% sugar I would replace some DME with cane sugar maybe push simple sugar percentage close to 20% you dont want it ti finish any higher than 1.012
 
jtp137 said:
The only thing that would worry me is the ferment ability with 2.5 pound of d-180 you are around 14% sugar I would replace some DME with cane sugar maybe push simple sugar percentage close to 20% you dont want it ti finish any higher than 1.012
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Cone on the 530 will gladly give you over 80% with this kind of recipe, my second batch I will start with a OG of 1085 then I will end up @ 10,5 alc @ the end.

For all of you who dont get over 80% don, t trust pitch calculators
 
As I mentioned before, I failed to use a dark enough sugar and ended up with a golden strong. 1.089 to 1.011.

Bottled it yesterday in champagne 750ml. I am impressed at how well it turned out. It has lovely spice and fruit flavours and is alarmingly smooth for 10.25%, with minimal fusels- mostly just a present, warming alcohol.

Thanks everyone, I learned a lot from this thread!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485760649.682217.jpg
 
I most recently completed a golden strong which was created as a way of building up a large amount of yeast for brewing this beer. I used harvested Spencer Trappist yeast (VERY fresh bottles) which I have heard is a house yeast based on WLP530. The issue is that my golden strong is currently fizzling at 1.017 (about 7 pts higher than I would have wanted) after 2 weeks. I'd most likely chalk this up to underpitching as it was the first beer made after stepping it up from commercial dregs. Is this high finishing gravity alarming enough to not attempt to use it for this recipe (despite that fact that it's supposed to be a beast), or should I not be worried because I clearly have a huge cell count to work with going forward to pitch into this quad?
 
If you think that the issue was with the yeast and not that the limit of fermentability was actually 1.017, then you probably have stressed yeast. Maybe pull a sample and try a FFT to see if there are fermentables left.

Do you have the option of making a huge starter to revitalize the yeast?

My concern is that if you pitch from this last batch, the yeast will be in a high sugar environment and go very active, and their replication/growth will be messy, leaving all kinds of waste products in the beer.
One of the reasons we do a starter, in addition to growing more yeast, is to vitalize the yeast and get them in great condition for adverse conditions -- so what you have now might be an anti-starter.
 
Point taken on the anti-starter. My plan was to pull a decent amount of slurry, and do a vitality starter; meanwhile I would clean the fermentor and ready it for the quad.

However, I think I may just go with a fresh pitch of 530 as I don't want to risk pitching a mutated strain into such a potentially huge and awesome beer. I don't think I have it in me to turn this recipe into a yeast experiment. The fermentabilty of the current golden strong I have going should have gotten down to single digits. I mashed at 148-149F, aerated with 60 secs of O2 and there is 2 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch.

I was also previously wrestling with replacing the Brewer's Gold with Chinook as I have a lot on hand and I've read they can be a substitute for each other, but as long as I'm running the LHBS, I might as well pick up an extra ounce of the correct hops as well.
 
troglodytes said:
Point taken on the anti-starter. My plan was to pull a decent amount of slurry, and do a vitality starter; meanwhile I would clean the fermentor and ready it for the quad.

However, I think I may just go with a fresh pitch of 530 as I don't want to risk pitching a mutated strain into such a potentially huge and awesome beer. I don't think I have it in me to turn this recipe into a yeast experiment. The fermentabilty of the current golden strong I have going should have gotten down to single digits. I mashed at 148-149F, aerated with 60 secs of O2 and there is 2 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch.

I was also previously wrestling with replacing the Brewer's Gold with Chinook as I have a lot on hand and I've read they can be a substitute for each other, but as long as I'm running the LHBS, I might as well pick up an extra ounce of the correct hops as well.
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I used this yeast 5 times with adequate starters and it always stalls I quit using it I now use 500 for all my Belgians never had an issue
 
I have brewed this four times-first two batches last February and they were great when I started having them starting in October.

I just brewed another two separate batches. Both batches this time reached 83 degrees after 3-4 days. I had a healthy pitch and it took off within 12-18 hours. I hadnt planned it to get so warm, it was in a fermentation chamber (freezer but with temp controller off) in a 65 degree basement. Hadn't planned to let it get that warm-I slowly dropped temp to upper 70s over two days after seeing it so high.

I tasted it at two weeks having reached FG and it was hot and I think may have some fussels.

I recall from last year it tasted hot right out of primary but I dont recall it being so harsh. Unfortunately my notes didn't say too much except it was harsh and rough.

I have it in secondary where it will sit until this summer when I keg or bottle. I may keg because I am not sure it will settle out if indeed it is fussel alcohol I am detecting.

I won't dump it now but will taste it again in some months...I am hoping that I just hit it at a bad time...but since it was hotter with a bit of solvent taste I suspect I may be sitting on a couple bad batches...

Can someone give me their taste profile out of primary?
 
eujamfh said:
I have brewed this four times-first two batches last February and they were great when I started having them starting in October.

I just brewed another two separate batches. Both batches this time reached 83 degrees after 3-4 days. I had a healthy pitch and it took off within 12-18 hours. I hadnt planned it to get so warm, it was in a fermentation chamber (freezer but with temp controller off) in a 65 degree basement. Hadn't planned to let it get that warm-I slowly dropped temp to upper 70s over two days after seeing it so high.

I tasted it at two weeks having reached FG and it was hot and I think may have some fussels.

I recall from last year it tasted hot right out of primary but I dont recall it being so harsh. Unfortunately my notes didn't say too much except it was harsh and rough.

I have it in secondary where it will sit until this summer when I keg or bottle. I may keg because I am not sure it will settle out if indeed it is fussel alcohol I am detecting.

I won't dump it now but will taste it again in some months...I am hoping that I just hit it at a bad time...but since it was hotter with a bit of solvent taste I suspect I may be sitting on a couple bad batches...

Can someone give me their taste profile out of primary?
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83 F should still be just within range. Mine went to 83 F on the second day, and it still turned out excellent.
 
I brewed this again and have a bit of a problem. I took a sample and tested with my refractometer and was convinced it was done and kegged it up. Turns out after kegging it it's sitting at 1.041. Any reason at this point I shouldn't just dump Brett into the keg and let it sit in the garage till next fall? Maybe release the pressure once or twice a week? Or any other suggestions?
 
It went from 26 brix to 16 which puts it at 10.84%. But it says 1.041 on my hydrometer and smells like wort not beer. Anyway it's kegged and carbed, but undrinkable due to being overly sweet. So Brett maybe? Dump a bottle of Kriek in here? I don't know, kinda at a loss on what to do or what will work.
 
tjosborne said:
It went from 26 brix to 16 which puts it at 10.84%. But it says 1.041 on my hydrometer and smells like wort not beer. Anyway it's kegged and carbed, but undrinkable due to being overly sweet. So Brett maybe? Dump a bottle of Kriek in here? I don't know, kinda at a loss on what to do or what will work.
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Maybe some 099 in a small active starter?
 
Jwin said:
Maybe some 099 in a small active starter?
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Could I just throw that in the keg? Because whatever I do I don't plan to transfer it. Just want to let it sit out someplace in the keg and pull the release every day or so.
 
tjosborne said:
Could I just throw that in the keg? Because whatever I do I don't plan to transfer it. Just want to let it sit out someplace in the keg and pull the release every day or so.
Click to expand...

Could you ?
Yes.
Is it ideal?
No. But your not in an ideal situation. If it works(no guarantees as we don't know 100% why your FG is so high), you'll have quite a bit of sediment in your keg.
It would also add oxygen exposure, but if there is indeed fermentable sugar left, that should be mitigated.
You could also try adding some amylase enzyme. It+so5 helped me with an already kegged dipa stuck in the upper 30s. Mine got stuck from 002 flocing out before finished.

Ideally, you would want to either push the end result to a purged keg or let it crash in the keg for a bit then pour off a couple pints. If you ever moved or shook that keg, all the yeast would be in suspension again.

My lesson learned: take gravity readings before kegging. Krausen up, krausen down, wait a week(or two) doesn't always cut it with big brews. I wouldn't hesitate to pitch a starter in a stalled brew in the fermenter, bug in a keg presents far more issues. Your call. But if it is undrinkable to you now, you have to spur fermentation, or dump it.
 
I'm building up my starter right now and wondering if my process will be good enough to attenuate this beer. I just pitched a fresh pure pitch packet of WLP530 into 1.5L @ 1.035 starter. Once this is done I plan on decanting the liquid and pouring off the yeast to save and leave about 100B cells in the 2L flask and do another 1.5L starter. I will then combine the yeast from both starters and do a vitality starter on brew day and pitch at high krausen.

I'm doing this as my limitations are only having a 2L flask and no krausen capture vessel that will be completely sanitary. Would it be in my best interest to collect the starter blowoff into a sanitized ball jar and build a starter out of blow off yeast only or will my method provide fresh enough yeast @ a cell count of about 350-375B for a 5.5 gal batch?

I do plan on recapturing the blowoff out of the fermentor as my flask will be freed up at that point and repitch as needed.
 
I'm getting ready to brew this in the next few weeks as well. Assuming the yeast step calculators are correct, I plan to do a 0.5L starter, decant, and then a 2L starter. But this is my first time doing a step up, so I am interested in others feedback as well.
 
For a starter I did a single step 4L starter. Assuming you have access to 5l flask/bottle - no problems it worked great.

Just remember to catch the blow off in another container (your starter flask) and add it back into the beer. My batch did not stall out and is a very tasty brew.
 
Oh man, I have a 2L flask and was going to step up a couple starters, and oh man did I get a blow out with the WLP530. I think I have about 50B cells sitting on my countertop right now. I think I'm going to do a krausen collection for my second starters.

I figured that catching the blow off and adding it back should be all I need for a success. Thanks
 
Jwin said:
Could you ?
Yes.
Is it ideal?
No. But your not in an ideal situation. If it works(no guarantees as we don't know 100% why your FG is so high), you'll have quite a bit of sediment in your keg.
It would also add oxygen exposure, but if there is indeed fermentable sugar left, that should be mitigated.
You could also try adding some amylase enzyme. It+so5 helped me with an already kegged dipa stuck in the upper 30s. Mine got stuck from 002 flocing out before finished.

Ideally, you would want to either push the end result to a purged keg or let it crash in the keg for a bit then pour off a couple pints. If you ever moved or shook that keg, all the yeast would be in suspension again.

My lesson learned: take gravity readings before kegging. Krausen up, krausen down, wait a week(or two) doesn't always cut it with big brews. I wouldn't hesitate to pitch a starter in a stalled brew in the fermenter, bug in a keg presents far more issues. Your call. But if it is undrinkable to you now, you have to spur fermentation, or dump it.
Click to expand...


The reason I don't want to transfer it again is to prevent oxidization. I just would like to let it sit in the hot garage over summer and do its thing.

It stalled because of my new brew bucket. I ramped temp up two degrees a day, once in morning and night, but once it hit 80 on my temp controller I noticed it would go to 81.5 then drop to 79 before it would kick on to heat back up. The placement of the probe or something messed things up. Bought two of them and after $450 I'm back to using my bottling buckets.

But anyhow I would like to fix this without transferring. Would a saison yeast work? In summer heat? I realize I don't want to potentially contaminate my system just to save one batch.
 
hello,
i am Nick and i am a new member in this forum. I have brewed about 10 recipes and i think i will make a try for this recipe very very soon. i have already made my recipe which i would like to present. i have changed the yeast and i think i will use M47 by Mangrove.
WESTY 12
Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 50.0
Total Grain (kg): 20.000
Total Hops (g): 180.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.090 (°P): 21.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.020 (°P): 5.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 9.19 %
Colour (SRM): 25.0 (EBC): 49.3
Bitterness (IBU): 32.8 (Tinseth)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
9.000 kg Belgian - Pale Ale (45%)
9.000 kg Belgian - Pilsner (45%)
2.000 kg Belgian Candi Syrup - D2 (10%)

Hop Bill
----------------
70.0 g Brewer's Gold Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)
40.0 g Hallertau Mittelfruh Pellet (3.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
70.0 g Styrian Goldings Pellet (5.5% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with M 47- M 27


Recipe Generated with Brewer's Friend

Any recommendations about the whole recipe?
Thanks
 
I have used m47 in a dubbels and blondes, and in my experience it doen't attenuate as much as some belgian strains, although the flavor is very nice. You should be able to get the 76% apparent attenuation that's in your above calculation, but if possible I would ramp the temperature up to about 25 C when the fermentation winds down. I would also consider mashing a little lower, or maybe do a step mash.
 
sikkingj said:
For a starter I did a single step 4L starter. Assuming you have access to 5l flask/bottle - no problems it worked great.

Just remember to catch the blow off in another container (your starter flask) and add it back into the beer. My batch did not stall out and is a very tasty brew.
Click to expand...

Holy crap! If you started with a reasonably fresh vial of yeast that would put you at around 700B cells, is that for real? I'm not going to have anywhere near that much. Or were you doing a 10 gal batch (I'm only doing 5.5Gal)?
 
I finally had my brew night last night and hit just about every number. Ended up at 1.093 and a taste test is delicious. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

But I woke up this morning realizing that I am a complete dunce. I always do a vitality starter and this brew was no different, but I just realized that I never boiled the wort before creating the starter because I was preoccupied by the wort reduction on the stovetop.

Anyway, I guess I'll just have to wait to see what turns up, but this looks extremely promising based on gravity, color, and taste. Can't wait for the final results.
 
Friends i 've got a problem. I can't find d-180 here in Greece. Do you have any idea to suggest? Thank you.
 
A quick Q on the timing of the temperature ramp up. I read that CSI says this ramps from 63-79F evenly over the course of a week. Others in here have advocated for a free rise then hold. I want to get as much attenuation and flavor as possible out of this yeast and while I'm more likely to trust CSI with his method, I'm mine will reach high krausen while in in the mid 60s which would be too low.

I pitched my starter at high krausen and the batch was fermenting with about a half inch of krausen, CO2 bubbling out the blowoff at a pretty constant rate already. Its been ramped from pitching temp (63F) to (66F) and right now at exactly 24 hours post pitch where the kruasen is now about 2 inches. Should I let a free rise up to the high 70s happen now, or use my ferm chamber to regulate a steady temp increase of about 2.5F degrees a day? I don't want hot alcohol or off flavors, but obviously this yeast wants to work in warmer conditions.
 

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