Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[hobbybob]

I'm here in Brussels and a small bottle of westy 12 costs 14 euros.
So keep brewing your own, folks

In The Netherlands between 5 and 13 euro so I think Mer-man has to look a bit harder

 

[UCChemE05]

In The Netherlands between 5 and 13 euro so I think Mer-man has to look a bit harder

I was in Amsterdam a couple months ago and found a couple places selling them for 15 Euro a piece

 

[jtp137]

I just got some shipped to me interesting it was bottled in October why do we age our clones a year or more when the brewery does not

 

[tim_c7]

Finished the first batch over a year ago. It really is a great beer. My first batch was only 3.5 gallons. I used the single malt version of the recipe on the CSI website. I started a 5 gallon batch this time around using the two malt version. I encourage anyone exploring this style of beer to brew this one. I will brew this style every year.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I just got some shipped to me interesting it was bottled in October why do we age our clones a year or more when the brewery does not

Try the clone after a month and after then two years, and you'll know why ageing is a good thing. Even the ones you purchase will improve greatly if you save them for a year or two.

I recently tried a clone I made more than two years ago and it was quite delicious. I'm glad I saved some of this long.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Searched this thread but didn't see anything...

I assume this would be fairly easy to convert to extract, since pilsner and light DME/LME are pretty easy to come by.

Anyone tried it and have any advice?

 

[jtp137]

Searched this thread but didn't see anything...



I assume this would be fairly easy to convert to extract, since pilsner and light DME/LME are pretty easy to come by.



Anyone tried it and have any advice?

The only thing that would worry me is the ferment ability with 2.5 pound of d-180 you are around 14% sugar I would replace some DME with cane sugar maybe push simple sugar percentage close to 20% you dont want it ti finish any higher than 1.012

 

[hobbybob]

The only thing that would worry me is the ferment ability with 2.5 pound of d-180 you are around 14% sugar I would replace some DME with cane sugar maybe push simple sugar percentage close to 20% you dont want it ti finish any higher than 1.012

Cone on the 530 will gladly give you over 80% with this kind of recipe, my second batch I will start with a OG of 1085 then I will end up @ 10,5 alc @ the end.

For all of you who dont get over 80% don, t trust pitch calculators

 

[hobbybob]

I was in Amsterdam a couple months ago and found a couple places selling them for 15 Euro a piece

The Netherlands have a online marketplace there it's cheaper

for excample ( if you can read dutch):

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/verzame...51fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr&pos=13

and:

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/verzame...51fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr&pos=13

 

[Mer-man]

As I mentioned before, I failed to use a dark enough sugar and ended up with a golden strong. 1.089 to 1.011.

Bottled it yesterday in champagne 750ml. I am impressed at how well it turned out. It has lovely spice and fruit flavours and is alarmingly smooth for 10.25%, with minimal fusels- mostly just a present, warming alcohol.

Thanks everyone, I learned a lot from this thread!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485760649.682217.jpg

 

[troglodytes]

I most recently completed a golden strong which was created as a way of building up a large amount of yeast for brewing this beer. I used harvested Spencer Trappist yeast (VERY fresh bottles) which I have heard is a house yeast based on WLP530. The issue is that my golden strong is currently fizzling at 1.017 (about 7 pts higher than I would have wanted) after 2 weeks. I'd most likely chalk this up to underpitching as it was the first beer made after stepping it up from commercial dregs. Is this high finishing gravity alarming enough to not attempt to use it for this recipe (despite that fact that it's supposed to be a beast), or should I not be worried because I clearly have a huge cell count to work with going forward to pitch into this quad?

 

[Mer-man]

If you think that the issue was with the yeast and not that the limit of fermentability was actually 1.017, then you probably have stressed yeast. Maybe pull a sample and try a FFT to see if there are fermentables left.

Do you have the option of making a huge starter to revitalize the yeast?

My concern is that if you pitch from this last batch, the yeast will be in a high sugar environment and go very active, and their replication/growth will be messy, leaving all kinds of waste products in the beer.
One of the reasons we do a starter, in addition to growing more yeast, is to vitalize the yeast and get them in great condition for adverse conditions -- so what you have now might be an anti-starter.

 

[troglodytes]

Point taken on the anti-starter. My plan was to pull a decent amount of slurry, and do a vitality starter; meanwhile I would clean the fermentor and ready it for the quad.

However, I think I may just go with a fresh pitch of 530 as I don't want to risk pitching a mutated strain into such a potentially huge and awesome beer. I don't think I have it in me to turn this recipe into a yeast experiment. The fermentabilty of the current golden strong I have going should have gotten down to single digits. I mashed at 148-149F, aerated with 60 secs of O2 and there is 2 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch.

I was also previously wrestling with replacing the Brewer's Gold with Chinook as I have a lot on hand and I've read they can be a substitute for each other, but as long as I'm running the LHBS, I might as well pick up an extra ounce of the correct hops as well.

 

[jtp137]

Point taken on the anti-starter. My plan was to pull a decent amount of slurry, and do a vitality starter; meanwhile I would clean the fermentor and ready it for the quad.

However, I think I may just go with a fresh pitch of 530 as I don't want to risk pitching a mutated strain into such a potentially huge and awesome beer. I don't think I have it in me to turn this recipe into a yeast experiment. The fermentabilty of the current golden strong I have going should have gotten down to single digits. I mashed at 148-149F, aerated with 60 secs of O2 and there is 2 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch.

I was also previously wrestling with replacing the Brewer's Gold with Chinook as I have a lot on hand and I've read they can be a substitute for each other, but as long as I'm running the LHBS, I might as well pick up an extra ounce of the correct hops as well.

I used this yeast 5 times with adequate starters and it always stalls I quit using it I now use 500 for all my Belgians never had an issue

 

[eujamfh]

I have brewed this four times-first two batches last February and they were great when I started having them starting in October.

I just brewed another two separate batches. Both batches this time reached 83 degrees after 3-4 days. I had a healthy pitch and it took off within 12-18 hours. I hadnt planned it to get so warm, it was in a fermentation chamber (freezer but with temp controller off) in a 65 degree basement. Hadn't planned to let it get that warm-I slowly dropped temp to upper 70s over two days after seeing it so high.

I tasted it at two weeks having reached FG and it was hot and I think may have some fussels.

I recall from last year it tasted hot right out of primary but I dont recall it being so harsh. Unfortunately my notes didn't say too much except it was harsh and rough.

I have it in secondary where it will sit until this summer when I keg or bottle. I may keg because I am not sure it will settle out if indeed it is fussel alcohol I am detecting.

I won't dump it now but will taste it again in some months...I am hoping that I just hit it at a bad time...but since it was hotter with a bit of solvent taste I suspect I may be sitting on a couple bad batches...

Can someone give me their taste profile out of primary?

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I have brewed this four times-first two batches last February and they were great when I started having them starting in October.

I just brewed another two separate batches. Both batches this time reached 83 degrees after 3-4 days. I had a healthy pitch and it took off within 12-18 hours. I hadnt planned it to get so warm, it was in a fermentation chamber (freezer but with temp controller off) in a 65 degree basement. Hadn't planned to let it get that warm-I slowly dropped temp to upper 70s over two days after seeing it so high.

I tasted it at two weeks having reached FG and it was hot and I think may have some fussels.

I recall from last year it tasted hot right out of primary but I dont recall it being so harsh. Unfortunately my notes didn't say too much except it was harsh and rough.

I have it in secondary where it will sit until this summer when I keg or bottle. I may keg because I am not sure it will settle out if indeed it is fussel alcohol I am detecting.

I won't dump it now but will taste it again in some months...I am hoping that I just hit it at a bad time...but since it was hotter with a bit of solvent taste I suspect I may be sitting on a couple bad batches...

Can someone give me their taste profile out of primary?

83 F should still be just within range. Mine went to 83 F on the second day, and it still turned out excellent.

 

[hobbybob]

I uselly start @68 and keep it there for the first 36/48 hours after kick-off, after day 6 I'am @83ish

 

[tjosborne]

I brewed this again and have a bit of a problem. I took a sample and tested with my refractometer and was convinced it was done and kegged it up. Turns out after kegging it it's sitting at 1.041. Any reason at this point I shouldn't just dump Brett into the keg and let it sit in the garage till next fall? Maybe release the pressure once or twice a week? Or any other suggestions?

 

[Mer-man]

Was that final reading an unadjusted refractometer?

 

[stonebrewer]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiAwPS0poTSAhURxGMKHdkRB0AQFggaMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.morebeer.com%2Fpublic%2Fbeer%2Frefractbeer.xls&usg=AFQjCNHm7pwQYPw11YUFANhKXrpPhdqGCw&bvm=bv.146496531,d.eWE

Did you use something like the above to calculate your final gravity in the presence of alcohol?

 

[tjosborne]

I used the calculator on the Grainfather website.

 

[tjosborne]

It went from 26 brix to 16 which puts it at 10.84%. But it says 1.041 on my hydrometer and smells like wort not beer. Anyway it's kegged and carbed, but undrinkable due to being overly sweet. So Brett maybe? Dump a bottle of Kriek in here? I don't know, kinda at a loss on what to do or what will work.

 

[Jwin]

It went from 26 brix to 16 which puts it at 10.84%. But it says 1.041 on my hydrometer and smells like wort not beer. Anyway it's kegged and carbed, but undrinkable due to being overly sweet. So Brett maybe? Dump a bottle of Kriek in here? I don't know, kinda at a loss on what to do or what will work.

Maybe some 099 in a small active starter?

 

[tjosborne]

Maybe some 099 in a small active starter?

Could I just throw that in the keg? Because whatever I do I don't plan to transfer it. Just want to let it sit out someplace in the keg and pull the release every day or so.

 

[Jwin]

Could I just throw that in the keg? Because whatever I do I don't plan to transfer it. Just want to let it sit out someplace in the keg and pull the release every day or so.

Could you ?
Yes.
Is it ideal?
No. But your not in an ideal situation. If it works(no guarantees as we don't know 100% why your FG is so high), you'll have quite a bit of sediment in your keg.
It would also add oxygen exposure, but if there is indeed fermentable sugar left, that should be mitigated.
You could also try adding some amylase enzyme. It+so5 helped me with an already kegged dipa stuck in the upper 30s. Mine got stuck from 002 flocing out before finished.

Ideally, you would want to either push the end result to a purged keg or let it crash in the keg for a bit then pour off a couple pints. If you ever moved or shook that keg, all the yeast would be in suspension again.

My lesson learned: take gravity readings before kegging. Krausen up, krausen down, wait a week(or two) doesn't always cut it with big brews. I wouldn't hesitate to pitch a starter in a stalled brew in the fermenter, bug in a keg presents far more issues. Your call. But if it is undrinkable to you now, you have to spur fermentation, or dump it.

 

[troglodytes]

I'm building up my starter right now and wondering if my process will be good enough to attenuate this beer. I just pitched a fresh pure pitch packet of WLP530 into 1.5L @ 1.035 starter. Once this is done I plan on decanting the liquid and pouring off the yeast to save and leave about 100B cells in the 2L flask and do another 1.5L starter. I will then combine the yeast from both starters and do a vitality starter on brew day and pitch at high krausen.

I'm doing this as my limitations are only having a 2L flask and no krausen capture vessel that will be completely sanitary. Would it be in my best interest to collect the starter blowoff into a sanitized ball jar and build a starter out of blow off yeast only or will my method provide fresh enough yeast @ a cell count of about 350-375B for a 5.5 gal batch?

I do plan on recapturing the blowoff out of the fermentor as my flask will be freed up at that point and repitch as needed.

 

[Oldskewl]

I'm getting ready to brew this in the next few weeks as well. Assuming the yeast step calculators are correct, I plan to do a 0.5L starter, decant, and then a 2L starter. But this is my first time doing a step up, so I am interested in others feedback as well.

 

[Shawn3997]

Just brewed this. Hope it turns out tasty.

 

[sikkingj]

For a starter I did a single step 4L starter. Assuming you have access to 5l flask/bottle - no problems it worked great.

Just remember to catch the blow off in another container (your starter flask) and add it back into the beer. My batch did not stall out and is a very tasty brew.

 

[troglodytes]

Oh man, I have a 2L flask and was going to step up a couple starters, and oh man did I get a blow out with the WLP530. I think I have about 50B cells sitting on my countertop right now. I think I'm going to do a krausen collection for my second starters.

I figured that catching the blow off and adding it back should be all I need for a success. Thanks