Verdant IPA yeast best practices

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royger

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Hello,

I've been using the dry Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast for a while now for my NEIPAs and Pales Ales since it's more convenient than Wyeast 1318, but I don't seem to be able to get the mentioned flavour profile of fruit and creamy vanilla. I've always pitched a full packet (11gr) directly into the worth (~24L, 6gal) and tried different temperatures:

- Pitch at 18C (64F), let rise to 19C (66F), finish at 22C (72F).
- Pitch at 19C (66F), let rise to 20C (68F), finish at 22C (72F).
- Pitch at 19C (66F), let rise to 22C (72F), finish at 23C (73F).

But I always get a fairly clean profile in my opinion. I also get an attenuation higher than expected, >=80%, so I mash higher (70C) in order to compensate or else the resulting beer has a thin body. I ferment on a 27L conical Fermzilla with a refrigeration coil, and I'm slightly worried that the temperature probe is too close to the coil and thus not giving accurate results. However my iSpindel seems to mostly agree with the temperature probe, so I think the values reported above should be accurate.

Does someone has any tricks about how to get the vest profile with this yeast?
Is it similar to US-05 in that I will get more fruity esters if I lower the temperature?
Should I pitch less than a packet in order to stress the yeast and get more esters?

Thanks, Roger.
 

duncan_disorderly

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I've not had any problem getting the flavours and I just ferment at ambient, usually around 70F in my house. I have noticed that repitched yeast provides more flavour than yeast straight from the packet though. I crop yeast from the surface of the beer a few days into fermentation. Around 3 days. It's an ideal yeast strain for this.
 

tyrub42

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I ferment at 18c (wort temp), and get a great mouthfeel and flavor profile. Are you saying you get a much better ester profile and mouthfeel with London III by comparison? If so, it's really surprising. I think they're almost identical but gun to my head I honestly prefer the verdant as it seems slightly fruitier (hard to tell in an NEIPA but I've noticed it in less hoppy styles).

I make starters, so maybe that's it? My attenuation is also high, although I prefer that
 

ebbelwoi

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I get good results with APAs fermenting at about 22C, with cling wrap over the fermenter rather than an airlock. It's basically open fermentation. Once the brown krausen has receded (maybe 4 days?), I top crop the fluffy krausen. Then I flush the fermenter with CO2 and affix an airlock.
 

Miraculix

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I have really fruity beer at room temperature. Almost a bit too fruity. Almost...
 

Garage12brewing

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Do you hydrate your yeast before pitching ? I noticed that since I hydrate my dry yeasts I get much quicker fermentation ( almost no lag time ) and much better flavors/aromas. I know that many people are saying that you dont need to hydrate the dry yeast but I am sure they never done the hydrating process to try the difference. For me, huge difference. Going from 18C to 22C wont change the taste of your beer much.
 

tbaldwin000

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Anybody who'd like to know exactly how Verdant use it. They ferment at 19C and raise to 21C at the end of ferment, and pitch rate wise I have just seen this from James at Verdant (founder):

"We normally pitch 3kg of our Verdant yeast into 1.077 gravity DIPA's...and it seems pretty happy with that. But, yes, if we were to follow certain calculators online then we are considerably underpitching that also!"

Their batch size is 40HL, so that's in the region of half standard ale rate. They do this to get their desired ester profile.
 

ebbelwoi

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"We normally pitch 3kg of our Verdant yeast into 1.077 gravity DIPA's...and it seems pretty happy with that. But, yes, if we were to follow certain calculators online then we are considerably underpitching that also!"

Their batch size is 40HL, so that's in the region of half standard ale rate. They do this to get their desired ester profile.

Maybe this is just my morning math, but that looks like 3000 grams in 4000 liters, or .75g/L, which is 50% higher than the .5g/L that I accept as the standard ale pitch rate. Then again, my ales are all under 1.060. What's the standard pitch rate for ales at 1.077?
 

tbaldwin000

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Maybe this is just my morning math, but that looks like 3000 grams in 4000 liters, or .75g/L, which is 50% higher than the .5g/L that I accept as the standard ale pitch rate. Then again, my ales are all under 1.060. What's the standard pitch rate for ales at 1.077?
I was going by the brewers friend 'Pro Brewer' preset which is 0.75m cells/ml/degrees plato, however there are a million calculators out there that give a range of results, including Lallemand's own, so it's a fair question.

For what it's worth I always underpitch this yeast with good results (ester wise).
 

Beer666

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Great yeat for top cropping. Found the krausen takes about a week to drop. Very happy with my first beer using it. Just what i was hoping for.
 
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royger

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So I brewed yesterday with it again and this time I will try to keep wort at 17.5-18.5C (63.5-65.3F) until I get to ~1.040 and then allow to rise to 21C (70F). I've also underpitched, as I've used 8gr for a 22L batch with OG 1.062 expected FG 1.025. Seems like this time the yeast is slightly slower to start, as I've pitched ~20h ago and while there's blow off activity it's not crazy as it used to be when pitching a full packet.
 
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royger

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I haven't tried to ferment it under pressure, but that would suppress ester formation and that's the main point of using this yeast in my opinion.
 

HopsAreGood

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So I brewed yesterday with it again and this time I will try to keep wort at 17.5-18.5C (63.5-65.3F) until I get to ~1.040 and then allow to rise to 21C (70F). I've also underpitched, as I've used 8gr for a 22L batch with OG 1.062 expected FG 1.025. Seems like this time the yeast is slightly slower to start, as I've pitched ~20h ago and while there's blow off activity it's not crazy as it used to be when pitching a full packet.
I always pitch 2 full packs. Typical OG is 1.068-1.072. I don’t like underpitching.
Pitch at 70, hold at 70 for 4 days, bump up to 71 for 3 days, 72 for 3 days, then drop to 60 for 24 hours. Dry hop at 60 for 3 days. Transfer, carb, serve. This yeast performs beautifully if you follow this schedule.
 
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royger

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I always pitch 2 full packs. Typical OG is 1.068-1.072. I don’t like underpitching.
Pitch at 70, hold at 70 for 4 days, bump up to 71 for 3 days, 72 for 3 days, then drop to 60 for 24 hours. Dry hop at 60 for 3 days. Transfer, carb, serve. This yeast performs beautifully if you follow this schedule.
I use a similar schedule, my main difference is that I start the dry hop at 60F and then slowly move to cold crash temperature (~36F). I also move temperature ranges faster, as I start raising to 71F once gravity drops below 1.030-40. So I usually pitch and ferment between 64-66F and then let it rise on it's own to 71F at the tail of fermentation (2-3 days after pitch).

Maybe it's just luck or some other factor, but I've used a full packet on all my previous batches and always had much less krausen and a super-fast fermentation. This time which I've only used 8gr (~2/3 of a packet) and the krausen was thicker and fermentation wasn't as explosive as before, it took 72h to reach FG, while in the past it would usually reach FG in 36h.

I'm unsure whether this will have any effect flavour wise, as I haven't kegged it yet, I've just dry hopped today and will leave the hops for 48h then transfer.

EDIT: fixed fermentation times.
 
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CascadesBrewer

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I figured this would be a good place to ask about Verdant pitch rates. I see at least 1 vote for "2 packs" and one vote for "1 pack".

I plan to brew several iterations of a NEIPA recipe in the 1.065 to 1.070 OG range. So far I have only done two batches that are in the 2.5 gallon range and both times I have pitched on full pack of Verdant. I did use 1 pack of Verdant to ferment a 5 gallon batch, but that one was in the 1.043 OG range. I have had good luck with one pack of dry yeast in a 5 gallon batch of 1.055 wort, and pitching two packs in a 1.090+ batch. The 1.065 range is where I start to think more about my pitch rates.

For a 5-gallon 1.068 OG batch would you pitch 1 pack, 1.5 packs or 2 packs? Make a starter? I recently got 4 packs of Verdant from RiteBrew for $4 each, but my local shop sells a pack of Verdant for $7.
 

Miraculix

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I figured this would be a good place to ask about Verdant pitch rates. I see at least 1 vote for "2 packs" and one vote for "1 pack".

I plan to brew several iterations of a NEIPA recipe in the 1.065 to 1.070 OG range. So far I have only done two batches that are in the 2.5 gallon range and both times I have pitched on full pack of Verdant. I did use 1 pack of Verdant to ferment a 5 gallon batch, but that one was in the 1.043 OG range. I have had good luck with one pack of dry yeast in a 5 gallon batch of 1.055 wort, and pitching two packs in a 1.090+ batch. The 1.065 range is where I start to think more about my pitch rates.

For a 5-gallon 1.068 OG batch would you pitch 1 pack, 1.5 packs or 2 packs? Make a starter? I recently got 4 packs of Verdant from RiteBrew for $4 each, but my local shop sells a pack of Verdant for $7.
I'd pitch two oyf I wouldn't have to look on the money and otherwise one.
 

HopsAreGood

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I figured this would be a good place to ask about Verdant pitch rates. I see at least 1 vote for "2 packs" and one vote for "1 pack".

I plan to brew several iterations of a NEIPA recipe in the 1.065 to 1.070 OG range. So far I have only done two batches that are in the 2.5 gallon range and both times I have pitched on full pack of Verdant. I did use 1 pack of Verdant to ferment a 5 gallon batch, but that one was in the 1.043 OG range. I have had good luck with one pack of dry yeast in a 5 gallon batch of 1.055 wort, and pitching two packs in a 1.090+ batch. The 1.065 range is where I start to think more about my pitch rates.

For a 5-gallon 1.068 OG batch would you pitch 1 pack, 1.5 packs or 2 packs? Make a starter? I recently got 4 packs of Verdant from RiteBrew for $4 each, but my local shop sells a pack of Verdant for $7.
Use this. No need to worry about under pitching or over pitching. Direct from the manufacturer specs. I’ve use this the last three times I’ve used verdant and had what I would consider perfect results each time.

The beer I have fermenting right now was 5.25 gallons into the fermenter, with a 1.072 OG, which I’d be fermenting at 68°. The pitch rate calculator said I need 15.3 g, so I opened up two packs and weighed out 16 g and direct pitch that. I tend to round up to the nearest gram, but don’t think it would really make that much of a difference.
 
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CascadesBrewer

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The pitch rate calculator said I need 15.3 g, so I opened up two packs and weighed out 16 g and direct pitch that.

That makes sense. I probably need to get more in the habit of using a half or a partial pack of dry yeast for my batches. I have had good luck in the past with using a small amount for 1 gallon batches, and sealing up the remaining yeast.
 
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royger

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For Verdant IPA I usually pitch 80% of what the official pitch rate calculator suggests and get good results. I think you will be fine pitching a single packet if you cannot seal the half used one properly.
 

Beenym88

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It is best to use the calculators I love verdant for NEIPA my standard paractice is above 1.070 is two full packs and always had great results it is much better to over pitch then under pitch
 

tyrub42

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I figured this would be a good place to ask about Verdant pitch rates. I see at least 1 vote for "2 packs" and one vote for "1 pack".

I plan to brew several iterations of a NEIPA recipe in the 1.065 to 1.070 OG range. So far I have only done two batches that are in the 2.5 gallon range and both times I have pitched on full pack of Verdant. I did use 1 pack of Verdant to ferment a 5 gallon batch, but that one was in the 1.043 OG range. I have had good luck with one pack of dry yeast in a 5 gallon batch of 1.055 wort, and pitching two packs in a 1.090+ batch. The 1.065 range is where I start to think more about my pitch rates.

For a 5-gallon 1.068 OG batch would you pitch 1 pack, 1.5 packs or 2 packs? Make a starter? I recently got 4 packs of Verdant from RiteBrew for $4 each, but my local shop sells a pack of Verdant for $7.

Let me know if you can't find the specifics but I read an interview with the brewers at Verdant where they said that they pitch at a substantially lower rate than what calculators recommend.

Otoh I did have a batch get what I would call 'the wrong kind of estery' where it was starting to have an almost-belgian quality to the ester profile (I can't say for sure it was from under pitching, but that is my suspicion).
 

t^3

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I tried using both 1 and 2 packs of Verdant for 5.5 gallon 1.080ish brews. With 1 pack tried both rehydrating and just sprinkling on top. I couldn't tell a difference. Definitely needed the blow off tube for all of them. Elsewhere on the forum people were talking about using 1 pack of Verdant and 1 pack of New England. I tried that and it worked very well. Definitely better attenuation if you are looking for that. I repitched the mixed slurry 3 times with no noticeable change in taste or performance.
 
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