Using Vodka For Cacao Nibs - How Much Is Enough / Too Much?

[lolznrofls]

So basically we have several methods and work around..sounds like experiment time.. Cheers..

 

[Cape Brewing]

So basically we have several methods and work around..sounds like experiment time.. Cheers..

I think they'll both get you to basically the same place. It is just a matter of personal preference.

For me, personally, I don't like adding vodka to my beer. And on any kind of scale, using vodka becomes impractical very quickly. You're not going to have 55 gallon drums lined up full of vodka and cocao nibs. The options are to simply toss the nibs into secondary and risk infection, or try to sanitize them by some other means. Heat is a common one.

For homebrew scale batches... using spirits to sanitize works. So does Sodium Metabisulfite and a few others. Heat is simply another option.

Like I was saying though... It is about sanitation, not extraction... and I think if you do a side by side experiment... You won't taste the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew because it impresses people

 

[grrickar]

I'll have some results to post up in a few weeks.

I ordered a Java Stout extract kit and I crushed the coffee beans with a rolling pin and dumped them in a mason jar, then covered them in vodka. I left both covered for about 3 days, and I would give them a shake every now and again. I did the same thing with cacao nibs.

I did not do it to sanitize, but to make a coffee and cocoa 'liquor' to toss in the secondary. The kit instructions stated to brew the coffee strong for best results, and this should be super-concentrated.

I doubt vodka (in the volume we are talking about) will impart much taste, and will boost the ABV a tiny bit I suppose. I have maybe 8oz of each liqour to play around with.

The Java Stout went into the primary today...will toss in the liquor in the secondary in a week or two.

 

[day_trippr]

"Allow me to retort"

The reason I started making "nib extract" had nothing to do with infection avoidance. I've never had an infected batch of anything so that wasn't the issue.

What happened was I had a couple of pours of kegged Young's Double Chocolate Stout and was in heaven (the canned version is nothing like the kegged brew, btw). The intensity of the chocolate was incredible compared to what I'd been achieving by just dumping roasted nibs in the fermenter for a couple/few weeks.

The choice was to use more nibs - or think about how to increase extraction. A bit of reading convinced me to try spirits and I've never looked back. Same amount of nibs, but far more chocolate presence up front, in the middle, and the finish.

Aaaand I switched to using dark rum instead of vodka about five batches ago and will stick with that. The character addition is totally sympatico...

Cheers!

ps: A vanilla bean added to the soaking nibs definitely boosts the apparent chocolate intensity...

 

[Cape Brewing]

Retort away... like I said... They are all personal preferences and different options. If YOU have never had an infection and that's how/why YOU do it.... Awesome. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and if get good results, great. Folks should try it and see what results they like. That said, I think simply saying, "i've never had an infection so I'm just gonna toss this in my beer" is a mistake... which is why I was saying, in general, soaking in vodka is recommended for sanitation and not extraction. If you do it the other way around, awesome. That's not wrong in any way.

All I was saying was there are other options.

I don't think any commercially available beers that use nibs, oak chips, any fruit, or any other flavor "additive" is setting up massive drums of vodka/"additive" mix in order to extract flavor though. Does that matter for home brewed batches? Not particularly since the scale allows it. All I am saying is that there are other ways to do it and "it" is sterilizing the additive instead of extraction.

Will hard liquor extract flavors better? Maybe. I'm certainly not an expert on that topic but I'm a little skeptical from my experiences. That doesn't at all mean it's not true, it just means I, personally, haven't seen that. I have made all sorts of beers where I have used heat to sterilize (vanilla beans, cacao nibs, etc with dry heat and peaches and other fruit with controller pasteurization) and those beers have never been infected and I've never had a problem with extraction.

.... It's just a different option.

 

[lolznrofls]

Yeah..what he said..i only have one chocolate beer under my belt..I do think toasting the nibs also helps with the flavor..atleast my house smelled great..Cheers!

 

[grrickar]

Will hard liquor extract flavors better? Maybe.

FWIW, my wife makes her own vanilla extract instead of buying it at the store, and she uses it for cooking tons of stuff. She simply takes organic vanilla beans and slits them with a knife, then pops them in a 750ml of vodka. Actually, I may toss some of that into a brew someday...

Could she extract it some other way? Sure - but popping some beans in vodka and being patient isn't a bad way to go either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla_extract

It's how the pros do it: "Pure vanilla extract is made by macerating and percolating vanilla beans in a solution of ethyl alcohol and water."

Why alcohol? Because it extracts compounds out that aren't water soluable. Ethanol is able to dissolve substances which are less soluble in water, while at the same time the water content can dissolve the substances less soluble in ethanol. A win-win I guess you could say...

I would imagine that you could 'cold brew' coffee with alcohol at room temp far stronger than you could with hot water, since alcohol would be more efficient. Brewing the coffee longer would make it more bitter, not so with the vodka method. Medicinal tinctures are also made primarily with some type of alcohol.

Lots of folks make vanilla extract that way too: https://www.beanilla.com/blog/homemade-vanilla-extract

If you have bought vanilla extract in those tiny bottles, you will find that this is far cheaper to make your own. A little extract goes a long way, so a 55 gallon drum of the stuff would probably last quite a while.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who works in a microbrewery as to how they create the flavors they add...

Most extracts have alcohol as their primary ingredient, and I don't see it being for sanitation reasons, but for the reasons I stated above. Soaking coffee (of cacao nibs) in water versus spirits will produce a weaker solution (all other variables being equal).

Of course brewing and cooking are two different things, since the alcohol generally cooks off in baking, etc.

I still think that pitching small amounts of homemade extract into a secondary is fine. It's not like we're putting 750ml of flavored vodka in a 5 gallon batch.

I'm sure the alcohol in the secondary will do the same, only requiring more of of whatever you are extracting from (as in more coffee beans/nibs/etc)

 

[Cape Brewing]

It would be interesting to hear from someone who works in a microbrewery as to how they create the flavors they add...

We sanitized the nibs with heat and add them directly to secondary.

 

[govner1]

I just did the Stone Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout (AG) and put the nibs directly in the boil.
Just out it on tap- outstanding!!

 

[Cape Brewing]

I just did the Stone Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout (AG) and put the nibs directly in the boil.
Just out it on tap- outstanding!!

There's another option...

I would think adding to the boil would pull acrid bitter from the nibs but that is based on nothing but a guess as I've never tried it... but if it works and gives good results... Sure, that's another option.

 

[lolznrofls]

Adding to the boil would release fats from the cocoa nibs which would negatively affect head retention.

 

[govner1]

This was per the Stone recipe & I've had no head retention issues.

 

[khillian]

I posted Drew's nib extract recipe from Experimental Brewing mostly because of its consistency. It allows a home brewer to follow the extraction recipe which is one less variable you have to worry about with making chocolate infused beers. The amount/temp/time would vary greatly between a Mild and Russian Imperial Stout due to the alcohol percentage. At least with the extract method you can dose in the keg with a small sample and multiply up, where as in secondary your stuck with what you have already done to the beer good or bad. Just my two cents I think either way will work but the extract gives you more control/consistency.

 

[lolznrofls]

Idk about that but the cocoa nibs and vodka thing reall added a nice bit of cocoa flavor to the stout I just made..then killed an entire batch in one weekend...all I can say is it most deffinatley works well..

 

[robotinc]

I just added coco nibs to an imperial stout coming out of a bourbon barrel. I spread the nibs on a baking sheet and toasted them at about 350 until they smelled great, ~15 mins. Then I put them in a carboy and racked the beer on top. The heat takes care of any nasties you don't want in the brew, and because you are adding the nibs themselves they will continue to develop, were as the spirit extraction you get what you get. As far as time I think it took about 2 weeks to get the flavor I was after, but I would judge via your taste buds, and not your calendar.

Cheers

 

[grrickar]

Just drank my second bottle from a Peace Java Stout kit, where I soaked the coffee beans and cacao nibs (my contribution to the kit) in vodka and added in the secondary.

It is mellowing out nicely, and I definitely would not hesitate to use this process again. The more time goes by, the more the flavors blend together.

 

[lolznrofls]

I find through trial and error that I got the best flavor from toasting my nibs for flavor then soaking in vodka for a day to extract a little into the tincture and dropping it in the secondary. ..i read alot of people do one or the other...so I did both with wonderfull results

 

[Tommydee]

Reviving this. I've Got a Northern Brewer chocolate milk stout all grain kit going on day 2. I'm anti-secondary. Can't I follow Drews method, and dump it in the primary After fermentation settles, llet it sit for a week, and keg? Or, can I rack the beer to keg, dump in the extract, let it sit for a week, then chill/carbonate? Or should I suck it up and dirty a second carboy? I read that nibs don't do well in primary, as they get lost in the trub, but seems the extract method would solve that issue.

 

[Chvymn99]

Reviving this. I've Got a Northern Brewer chocolate milk stout all grain kit going on day 2. I'm anti-secondary. Can't I follow Drews method, and dump it in the primary After fermentation settles, llet it sit for a week, and keg? Or, can I rack the beer to keg, dump in the extract, let it sit for a week, then chill/carbonate? Or should I suck it up and dirty a second carboy? I read that nibs don't do well in primary, as they get lost in the trub, but seems the extract method would solve that issue.

I just throw them in a hop sack, toss them in the primary for two weeks.

 

[atsir]

Reviving this. I've Got a Northern Brewer chocolate milk stout all grain kit going on day 2. I'm anti-secondary. Can't I follow Drews method, and dump it in the primary After fermentation settles, llet it sit for a week, and keg? Or, can I rack the beer to keg, dump in the extract, let it sit for a week, then chill/carbonate? Or should I suck it up and dirty a second carboy? I read that nibs don't do well in primary, as they get lost in the trub, but seems the extract method would solve that issue.

If you’re using a tincture I don’t think it matters if the nibs get lost in the trub. The flavor will be coming from the liquid you throw in.

 

[atsir]

Reviving this. I've Got a Northern Brewer chocolate milk stout all grain kit going on day 2. I'm anti-secondary. Can't I follow Drews method, and dump it in the primary After fermentation settles, llet it sit for a week, and keg? Or, can I rack the beer to keg, dump in the extract, let it sit for a week, then chill/carbonate? Or should I suck it up and dirty a second carboy? I read that nibs don't do well in primary, as they get lost in the trub, but seems the extract method would solve that issue.

If you’re using a tincture I don’t think it matters if the nibs get lost in the trub. The flavor will be coming from the liquid you throw in.

 

[TravelingLight]

Reviving this. I've Got a Northern Brewer chocolate milk stout all grain kit going on day 2. I'm anti-secondary. Can't I follow Drews method, and dump it in the primary After fermentation settles, llet it sit for a week, and keg? Or, can I rack the beer to keg, dump in the extract, let it sit for a week, then chill/carbonate? Or should I suck it up and dirty a second carboy? I read that nibs don't do well in primary, as they get lost in the trub, but seems the extract method would solve that issue.

Brewed a breakfast stout yesterday and am essentially doing this. When the beer is ready for the keg, I'm just going to add the tincture to a clean/sanitized keg, and rack the beer in on top of the tincture. This is the same way I do tinctures for goses and works well.

 

[Tommydee]

Brewed a breakfast stout yesterday and am essentially doing this. When the beer is ready for the keg, I'm just going to add the tincture to a clean/sanitized keg, and rack the beer in on top of the tincture. This is the same way I do tinctures for goses and works well.

So I soaked my nibs in Goslings black rum for 4 days, dumped it in the primary on day 7, all the tincture, about half the nibs, kegged at day 14, turned out great. I was somehow worried that it might be too bitter if I threw in all the nibs, but in hindsight, I could have just dumped it all in. Brought a growler to a friend's party, it went pretty fast. Does the Goslings matter over just vodka? My pallet isn't good enough to know, but it definitely isn't worse.