Using sugar to prime in keg?.

[Redpappy]

here is my set up, I have a fridge that will hold 2 kegs as well as my co2 bottle, I do have a 2 way valve in place. Ohh, by the way I will be filling my first keg in a week... I went ahead and purchased 3 kegs to start with. With what I have researched, a person can carb using about half the sugar. Here is the scenario.... I have 2 kegs in fridge, and my third is ready to keg. I put half the sugar in, ( ie it calls for 4 oz for bottle conditioning, so I put 2 oz in keg) I close up the keg. Basement temp at the moment is a steady 63F.

Now the question..

How long can my keg sit with out worrying about it?

I bought a third one, just so that I will always have 2 in the fridge, not thinking of what to do when the fridge is full..... damm I need to figure out my brew house .


I figure worse case, trial by error

 

[Anyhowe]

Curious as to why anyone would carb a keg with sugar?

 

[Redpappy]

Curious as to why anyone would carb a keg with sugar?

As stated, I have 3 kegs, my fridge will only hold 2. If I still have 2 in the fridge, what should I do with my next batch.... I prefer to have it in a keg versus bottles..... no if enough peeps say that it would be better to bottle, then I may go that route, and figure the third keg a waste for the time being....

Now if you have a suggestion for what to do with a third keg with a 2 keg system I am all ears. And open for any suggestions.

 

[Anyhowe]

Ok then ...

 

[Redpappy]

Ok then ...

Any suggestions?

 

[Anyhowe]

Any suggestions?

Not putting sugar in your kegs?

 

[OpenSights]

Curious as to why anyone would carb a keg with sugar?

I might be partly special, but anytime I’ve tried to force carb it ends up either over or under carb’d. Anytime I condition with sugar, it comes out perfect after two weeks.

Edit: I do rock a sugar primed keg once a day when priming with sugar after purging with co2 on day 1.

 

[doug293cz]

I might be partly special, but anytime I’ve tried to force carb it ends up either over or under carb’d. Anytime I condition with sugar, it comes out perfect after two weeks.

Edit: I do rock a sugar primed keg once a day when priming with sugar after purging with co2 on day 1.

I won't call you special, but if you use the "set and forget" method of force carbing, at the correct pressure for your beer temp and desired carb level, you have to violate the laws of physical chemistry not to be correctly carbed after 3 weeks. (One exception is overfilling the keg so that you have significantly less surface area exposed to CO2 (beer up in the curved area at the top of the keg. In this case carbing can take much longer.)

If you try to burst carb by agitating the keg at higher than chart pressure for temp and carb level, then you are using a fundamentally uncontrollable process, and it's easy to over or under carb.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

... With what I have researched, a person can carb using about half the sugar...

I've seen this advice pretty much everywhere, but no one has ever been able to explain how you get the same amount of CO2 generated by half as much sugar in a keg vs. a bottle. It's not headspace, since for both full bottles and full kegs the headspace volume is about 6% of the beer volume. Of course even if you are undercarbed when you put the keg on gas, the carbonation level will increase until it is in equilibrium for the CO2 pressure and beer temp.

Brew on

 

[jmarkkaufman]

So I think the OP is asking how to manage carbing the third keg since there is no capacity to refrigerate it. I suggest that you look up the pressure required to carb it to your specified volumes of CO2 at the basement temperature of 63. Dial down to serving pressure when one of the other kegs kicks. If you also lack the ability to set a second pressure, just top it up every day or something. It’ll catch up. Too much beer shouldn’t be a bad thing [emoji481]

 

[TallDan]

You absolutely can prime and carbonate your keg with sugar. I've never done it, so i can't comment on the validity of using half the amount of sugar, but worst case, it's a little undercarbed with the sugar, but you have a head start when you put it on gas. You probably want to use co2 from your tank to make sure the keg is sealed correctly after you put the beer and sugar in there.

No matter what, that third keg is not a waste. I have four taps and eight kegs, which is about right for me. Right now, five have beer in them, four serving and one lagering. Before the next one is emptied, one or two more will probably be filled. Having extras makes it easier to brew and fill kegs when it's convenient, rather than having to wait for one keg to kick before refilling it. I also like to let big beers like imperial stouts and barleywines age for a while in the keg.

 

[Redpappy]

I guess this is dilemma, I like small beers 4-6%, I have a 2 tap system. I do gave 3 kegs. What would the best Avenue when I fill 3 kegs on on a 2 keg system? I didn’t give it much thought when I bought 3 kegs..... it’s hard to say when I will empty 1 keg. Especially since I’m used to bottles and having 5 viarioritys. ( in which I have right now in bottles).

Now if sugessted to have 2 kegs filled, 3rd on stand by and bottle any any extra, I’m good with that, but please say so. To simply say say ..

I've seen this advice pretty much everywhere, but no one has ever been able to explain how you get the same amount of CO2 generated by half as much sugar in a keg vs. a bottle. It's not headspace, since for both full bottles and full kegs the headspace volume is about 6% of the beer volume. Of course even if you are undercarbed when you put the keg on gas, the carbonation level will increase until it is in equilibrium for the CO2 pressure and beer temp.

Brew on

You absolutely can prime and carbonate your keg with sugar. I've never done it, so i can't comment on the validity of using half the amount of sugar, but worst case, it's a little undercarbed with the sugar, but you have a head start when you put it on gas. You probably want to use co2 from your tank to make sure the keg is sealed correctly after you put the beer and sugar in there.

No matter what, that third keg is not a waste. I have four taps and eight kegs, which is about right for me. Right now, five have beer in them, four serving and one lagering. Before the next one is emptied, one or two more will probably be filled. Having extras makes it easier to brew and fill kegs when it's convenient, rather than having to wait for one keg to kick before refilling it. I also like to let big beers like imperial stouts and barleywines age for a while in the keg.

Would you think if I attached it to my co2 tank, and made sure the o2 as pushed out that I would be good for foughly 4 weeks ( doubt it would take that long, but worse case Scenario) but then I wonder if the yeast needs the oxygen to bring itself alive? Sorry not a science guy, and a lot of this is above my head.

By all means I mean disrespect to anyone’s opinions , I look forward to evereveryones viewes, and I do realize the final discions is mine.

 

[chickypad]

You can absolutely do this, it's not that uncommon. As you mention some folks don't have room or enough lines to carb all their kegs, some folks want to save Co2 for dispensing. I commonly do it on fruited wheats with juice, it cuts down on total grain to glass time as I transfer directly to the keg from primary and let the yeast naturally carb the keg from the sugar in the juice. I also commonly do it with bigger beers like some Belgians or stouts that I want to age at room temp for a while. I aim for the lower end of carbonation so as not to overshoot, say about 3.5 oz of table sugar in a 5 gal keg. As far as how long it lasts, just think of the keg as a big bottle - i.e. no limit but as with all beers you want to think about how age will affect it. And no, you don't want to add extra oxygen at this stage. Purge and seal the lid as TallDan said.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Curious as to why anyone would carb a keg with sugar?

Priming a keg works well...I have done it several times.

If you intend to cellar the beer for a few weeks it works well to eliminate the chore of force carbing.

I’ve also heard the point that sugar is cheaper than co2, lol never done the math.

It also simplifies a 2 keg system not having too raise pressure to force carb a single keg, or waiting on the set and “try” and forget method.

 

[WBCo]

I've only carbed a keg once, and it was a while ago, so I'm going off memory. I believe I used somewhere around 3.0 oz of dextrose, but I attached a spunding valve to the keg as well. I guess I was scared of over or under carbing it, so I added a little more sugar than I thought was necessary, but I had the spunding valve as insurance.

 

[greyghost]

It's called cask conditioning. I like conditioned beer not force carbed.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I am with greyghost - I prefer naturally carbonated beer. Many brewers will say that CO2 is CO2 and there's no difference - I disagree. I think it has to do with scrubbing Oxygen. CO2 in a cylinder has some Oxygen in it. It won't affect things too much if you're drinking the beer immediately, but if you're leaving it for long term ageing, natural carbonation will keep the beer for much longer. The downside, of course, is the time it takes and the trub at the bottom of the keg. However, I now mostly carbonate with a spunding valve either in primary (ferment in keg under pressure and transfer carbonated beer to my serving keg) or transfer beer to keg with 4 to 10 points of gravity left and let the yeast finish it off in the keg (the spunding valve takes care of potential over carbonation).

To naturally carbonate with sugar in the keg, use 80g (about 3oz) per keg. It'll get you in the ballpark. You might need to adjust up or down a bit (vent or add a burst of 40psi CO2). I think the difference compared to bottling is to do with headspace - although the headspace capacity in both is similar, it isn't vented from a keg, but is with each bottle that's opened. Think about every bottle losing CO2 as it's opened - that doesn't happen with keg dispensing.

 

[IBRUTOO]

So to minimize o2 pickup put 3oz sugar in serving keg then setup to purge keg via Co2 from fermentor. Once done fermenting force transfer onto priming suger in purged keg. Priming sugar will scrub any o2 left and get carbonation going.

 

[Redpappy]

Thanks for all of the input.

 

[Anyhowe]

It's called cask conditioning. I like conditioned beer not force carbed.

No that’s called priming with sugar. Cask conditioned or Real Ales finish their fermentation in the cask and that final fermentation of natural ingredients provides the carbonation.

 

[Anyhowe]

Almost by definition HB is a trial and error/experimental hobby.

Try some sugar in a keg and see how it is after a month. I just don’t like putting sugar in my beer. YMMV.

Another test,since you have the gas, would be to add say 30lb of gas and let it sit til your ready and see how it goes.

Adjust both from there. The beer will be in good shape no matter the results. You will discover your own favorite process in short time. Gl.

 

[jrgtr42]

I don't have a kegorator or CO2 rig, but I have a few kegs, I will occasionally keg a batch, mostly if It's for a party. I use the little charger and 16-gram cartridges to push it. So, I prime with sugar. I use a little less than if I was going to bottle, that's what I've always read, and it comes out fine.
If I did have a kegorator with limited space, I'd likely use a spare gas line outside to carb with. (presuming the CO2 tank is outside as well.) It's not needed (from everything I've seen) to keep the kegged beer cold the whole time. Once it's carbed up, I'd pull from the line and let it sit till needed.

 

[doug293cz]

... I just don’t like putting sugar in my beer. YMMV.

...

And just what do you think is in your wort that ferments to make alcohol?

Brew on

 

[Anyhowe]

And just what do you think is in your wort that ferments to make alcohol?

Brew on

apparantly that is what the guys at miller and coors think too...

 

[Gnomebrewer]

apparantly that is what the guys at miller and coors think too...

And Westvleteren........

 

[Anyhowe]

Haha. And check out the timely ad I go at the top of this thread...

 

[Anyhowe]

Delete

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Adding sugar (sucrose or glucose/dextrose) to beer has nothing to do with eating sugar, or detoxing from sugar in your diet. Sucrose and glucose ferment COMPLETELY. No sugar left in your beer. No sweetness. Just alcohol and Carbon dioxide.

 

[lump42]

here is my set up, I have a fridge that will hold 2 kegs as well as my co2 bottle, I do have a 2 way valve in place. Ohh, by the way I will be filling my first keg in a week... I went ahead and purchased 3 kegs to start with. With what I have researched, a person can carb using about half the sugar. Here is the scenario.... I have 2 kegs in fridge, and my third is ready to keg. I put half the sugar in, ( ie it calls for 4 oz for bottle conditioning, so I put 2 oz in keg) I close up the keg. Basement temp at the moment is a steady 63F.

Now the question..

How long can my keg sit with out worrying about it?

I bought a third one, just so that I will always have 2 in the fridge, not thinking of what to do when the fridge is full..... damm I need to figure out my brew house .


I figure worse case, trial by error

I'd always used 75% of bottle conditioned rate, but 50% rate would get you close if not spot on. If it's under it wouldn't take long under forced carbonation to fine tune it. As far as storage no problem either, since the yeast refermenting the priming sugar will scavenge any oxygen in the keg. It will store as well as a bottle conditioned beer outside of the fridge. You may get a bit more yeast settling in the bottom of the keg. Not a huge issue other than the first pint or two will be heavy with yeast. This is a very viable option. I've used it a few times.

 

[Anyhowe]

Adding sugar (sucrose or glucose/dextrose) to beer has nothing to do with eating sugar, or detoxing from sugar in your diet. Sucrose and glucose ferment COMPLETELY. No sugar left in your beer. No sweetness. Just alcohol and Carbon dioxide.

Where is the head smack emoji here?

 

[Homergah]

High fructose corn syrup is not the same thing as dextrose. It is, and has been, a traditional ingredient in beer. Honestly, you need to do some reading, studying, meditating. THEN, come back and talk some smack. Lol

Cheers, brewing guy!

 

[govner1]

I keg condition fairly regularly. It gives a smoother carbonation than force carbing, HOWEVER, I use priming malt ( DME) or priming sugar (light colored beers) and I use .75 oz per gallon that I dissolve in water and boil gently for five minutes then cool before adding to the keg. You need to seal your keg with a burst of CO2 after filling. Then I leave the keg at 68°F for a minimum of 10 days. Cold crash for 24-48 hours.
You will probably want to shorten your liquid dip tube by 1/2-3/4” and add a SS mesh filter to prevent picking up yeast residue..

 

[Anyhowe]

High fructose corn syrup is not the same thing as dextrose. It is, and has been, a traditional ingredient in beer. Honestly, you need to do some reading, studying, meditating. THEN, come back and talk some smack. Lol

Cheers, brewing guy!

where are my crayons .

You see, we were talking about using, or not using sugar, then a random ad came up about not using sugar. The two are not related. I thought the timing was funny; like....a joke?

 

[Homergah]

where are my crayons .

You see, we were talking about using, or not using sugar, then a random ad came up about not using sugar. The two are not related. I thought the timing was funny; like....a joke?

You should've written it in crayon. Maybe then I would have got it!

 

[doug293cz]

And just what do you think is in your wort that ferments to make alcohol?

Brew on

apparantly that is what the guys at miller and coors think too...

Sorry, but I can't parse (make any sense of) your reply. Just what are you trying to say?

Maltose is sugar, sucrose is sugar, fructose is sugar, dextrose/glucose is sugar. Maltose is the primary fermentable sugar in wort, but all of these sugars will ferment 100% to alcohol and CO2. The flavor in beer comes from other compounds in the wort.

There are also dextrins in wort, and these are more complex (higher molecular weight) sugars that do not ferment. Adding simple (mono and disaccharide) sugars does not affect the amount of dextrins in beer.

Brew on

 

[twd000]

I'm interested in trying this. Might be helpful to reduce oxygen in long-term aged beers.

My basement is only 55 degrees - is that too cool to "bulk prime"?

I have been adding gelatin when I transfer to the keg, in order to get clear beer faster. Should I skip this step? Will gelatin prevent active yeast from continuing to work, or does the gelatin just amalgamate the yeast cells that have already dropped to the bottom of the vessel?

Do I need to transfer from carboy to keg with a few gravity points remaining, or can I let fermentation finish completely, then prime with sugar and seal up the keg?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

55 degrees - will depend on yeast strain.
Gelatin - should be added to cold beer (main purpose is to drop out haze, most of which only forms at cold temperatures). Beer should be warm for priming. Either gelatin cold for a few days, then warm up and prime, or prime and condition for carbonation, then chill and add gelatin. Or leave out the gelatin.
You can let the ferment finish completely then prime with sugar, but in theory transferring with active (still fermenting) yeast is better for scrubbing oxygen.

 

[odie]

I’ve never kegged for storage until now. Maybe I need to start adding a little sugar to the kegs if it’s gonna age? I’ve got a porter and couple lagers that will sit 2-4 months before drinking. Should I pop the top and add a little sugar and reseal?

 

[odie]

The reason I’m asking/thinking is the oxidation thing. I’m wondering if a few oz of sugar in the keg will feed the yeast and they will consume whatever oxygen left is inside after the kegging. Carbonation is a secondary benefit to the oxygen removal

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I'm in two minds about it - the sugar is good, but opening the keg is bad. Will the sugar off-set the keg being opened? Probably not. Getting sugar in the keg at the same time as transferring beer definitely has benefits, but I don't think I'd be opening an already kegged beer to put sugar in.