Us05 experience

[BrewnWKopperKat]

lactic acid

FWIW, there are brewers who prefer phosphoric acid over lactic acid for mash pH adjustments. IIRC, the 'flavor descriptors' they used didn't match exactly with the 'flavor descriptors' the are being used here. Maybe it's a combination thing: acid choice + malts + yeast.

 

[superiorsat]

FWIW, there are brewers who prefer phosphoric acid over lactic acid for mash pH adjustments. IIRC, the 'flavor descriptors' they used didn't match exactly with the 'flavor descriptors' the are being used here. Maybe it's a combination thing: acid choice + malts + yeast.

Hmm. I have boosted a couple lack luster sour's in the past with the tiniest dose of lactic acid and it really made a difference sour wise at first, but faded to a more fake not earned kettle sour "sour" with time. Any time I add acid for PH reasons I always use phosphoric just for the exact reason that I don't want to sour unintentionally.

 

[Shortstack]

Adding my 2 cents as I have just recently used US 05 in back to back beers. l was surprised that the pH finished at 4.0 for both, which is lower than what I typically get. Seemed to play well in the American Wheat but can definitely pick up a twang in the APA that I don’t really care for. My hypothesis is that it is the low pH that I am picking up as the twang.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Adding my 2 cents as I have just recently used US 05 in back to back beers. l was surprised that the pH finished at 4.0 for both, which is lower than what I typically get. Seemed to play well in the American Wheat but can definitely pick up a twang in the APA that I don’t really care for. My hypothesis is that it is the low pH that I am picking up as the twang.

In your case, are you doing anything on brew day to adjust the water pH, or to adjust water chemistry?

 

[Shortstack]

In your case, are you doing anything on brew day to adjust the water pH, or to adjust water chemistry?

APA was mashed with 1.5% acid malt and distilled water treated with CaCl. That got me to a mash pH of 5.2 that dropped to 5.1 post boil. Same mash approach for the wheat resulting in a 5.5 mash pH, treated with 10ml/11.5L 10% phosphoric post boil for a 5.3pH in the fermenter. So nothing crazy low.

 

[day_trippr]

Gotta say I've been moderately curious about this alleged "twang" thing with US-05.
Mostly because I never experienced that character and I've used quite a bit of US-05 over the years.
And fwiw, one can find a "twang" badge frequently pinned to S04 as well. .

I wager there's a crapton of commercial brews using bricks of US-05...

Cheers!

 

[MHBT]

Gotta say I've been moderately curious about this alleged "twang" thing with US-05.
Mostly because I never experienced that character and I've used quite a bit of US-05 over the years.
And fwiw, one can find a "twang" badge frequently pinned to S04 as well. .

I wager there's a crapton of commercial brews using bricks of US-05...

Cheers!

I think “twang” can be found anywhere, I honestly dont even think its a “flaw” more of a subjective experience thing, some people pick things up while others dont, maybe the ones that do are the odd ones out with us05 Im one of those

 

[Spivey24]

Interesting. What did you do as far as the pitch rate for the batches? Direct pitch or with a starter? What size batches and gravity? What style beer?

I have used 1056 and 001 a lot over the years, but never in a side by side. I have been moving mostly to dry yeast over the past year or two, and I have made some excellent IPAs and Pale Ales with US-05 (including a recent silver medal for an IPA made with US-05). I have played around with a few other dry yeasts for hoppy beers (BRY-97 and M36/Liberty Bell...a recent Pale Ale with Notty), but keep finding I like Chico/US-05 the best. A split batch with 001 vs 1056 vs US-05 might be fun.

I actually really liked the way that Pale Ale with Nottingham turned out. It was a 100% Simcoe and it is a bit hard to pick out what flavors are from the yeast vs the hops. Fermentation finished faster than I would expect with US-05.

I went through a small phase earlier this year where I wanted to see for myself whether I could switch to dry and stop messing with starters. What I found was it’s hard to compare yeasts. Different temps, fermentations schedules, pitch rates, characteristics, etc. But after 4 mediocre batches of dry, I quit. All liquid yeast batches came out good.
I did 2 US05 and 2 Nottingham batches. Each was 1 or 1.5 packets for the dry sprinkled direct and my standard stir plate starter for the liquid. They were 11 gallon batches split evenly through a hose with a tee connector to 5.5 gallon batches in SS Anvil bucket fermenters. All house IPAs. OGs ranged from 1.055 to 1.063. US05 fermented with a pretty steady line downward - notty was fast.

I used post pitch low oxygen practices with purged kegs on all batches. I wish I could describe the off flavor from the dry yeast but it was a little muddled and the hops were not as popping. Kinda tasted a little oxidized or a similar flavor, but not in your face. I may not have noticed as much if it wasn’t side by side with the liquid yeast batches.

 

[Yesfan]

The "tartness" trait some of you all are describing......is it like a green apple kind of tartness? I've tasted that with some of my past beers, but I never thought that could be attributed to the yeast and in a way I still don't but this discussion peaks my curiosity on that. I've read a lot of posts in the past here where US-05 had a undesirable peachy note to it if fermenting too low. I've kept my beers with this yeast between 68F-72F. This last beer I brewed (Two Hearted Ale type clone), I pitched US-05 at 75F and the temp dropped down to 72F. It was still flat when I tried it yesterday, but I didn't detect anything besides it being flat.

Ten years ago when I first joined here, You couldn't mention dry yeast without also including US-05 or S-04. Now we have a whole lot more options out there!

 

[TheCache]

Just adding to this conversation. I've been experimenting with US-05 this year. I brewed an Amber ale earlier in the year and noticed a subtle tart/sweetness in the beer. I might say it was cider like, but just barely. Because I had two brews going and my fermentation chamber was full I let the Amber ferment in the basement where the ambient temp was around 64. The mash temp was 150. I had read about US-05's peachy flavors I assumed the flavors were due to a low ferm temp. The beer was still quite good, I was just not excited about the slight tart flavor.

More recently I brewed a Cream of Three crops batch and since I was using 05 again I kept the fermentation temp up around 67. Mash temp was 152. I noticed the tartness again, stronger than in the Amber, but I assumed this was due to the less robust flavors of Three crops VS an Amber ale.

I'm now trying some similar recipes with M44 and Nottingham to see if I notice the flavors there. I did a few brews with liquid yeast in between (Irish Red w/ Omega OYL-005 and another Amber with OYL- 004) and did not notice the tarntess in either of these brews.

Maybe as @MHBT mentioned, it's just something about my taster that picks up the tartness. Others who try the beers like them and are not that aware of the tartness unless I mention it.

Hmmm

 

[wepeeler]

Gotta say I've been moderately curious about this alleged "twang" thing with US-05.
Mostly because I never experienced that character and I've used quite a bit of US-05 over the years.
And fwiw, one can find a "twang" badge frequently pinned to S04 as well. .

I wager there's a crapton of commercial brews using bricks of US-05...

Cheers!

I know of one big brewery in CT that uses bricks of US-05. I got to chat with the owner/head brewer, and he said they use it a lot.

 

[wepeeler]

When I started brewing I read about US-05 being the most common homebrewers yeast. I was mainly after the neipa whale, so I never used it, except for 1 stout, which I have since brewed with S-04. (I like the less clean S-04 for the stout.)

Last year I made a West Coat Pale and decided to try WLP001. Enjoyed it immensely and re-brewed it last month with US-05. It's literally one of the cleanest and best home brews I've produced. Fermented at 68, and it smells and tastes just like a commercial beer. 2 Row, a little Vienna and Crystal 20. I've since tweaked it to get a bit more malt backbone and higher IBU, but damn is it tasty. I don't get any tartness whatsoever. Can't wait to use it again. LOVE not making starters.

Updated recipe if you're interested:

It's a kickass beer. I'm my own worst critic, and I love this beer. Looking forward to amping up the hops and going more bitter. Haven't even dry hopped yet. Made 20 gallons of it since June

 

[Miraculix]

Just adding to this conversation. I've been experimenting with US-05 this year. I brewed an Amber ale earlier in the year and noticed a subtle tart/sweetness in the beer. I might say it was cider like, but just barely. Because I had two brews going and my fermentation chamber was full I let the Amber ferment in the basement where the ambient temp was around 64. The mash temp was 150. I had read about US-05's peachy flavors I assumed the flavors were due to a low ferm temp. The beer was still quite good, I was just not excited about the slight tart flavor.

More recently I brewed a Cream of Three crops batch and since I was using 05 again I kept the fermentation temp up around 67. Mash temp was 152. I noticed the tartness again, stronger than in the Amber, but I assumed this was due to the less robust flavors of Three crops VS an Amber ale.

I'm now trying some similar recipes with M44 and Nottingham to see if I notice the flavors there. I did a few brews with liquid yeast in between (Irish Red w/ Omega OYL-005 and another Amber with OYL- 004) and did not notice the tarntess in either of these brews.

Maybe as @MHBT mentioned, it's just something about my taster that picks up the tartness. Others who try the beers like them and are not that aware of the tartness unless I mention it.

Hmmm

I taste tartness in almost every green net right or of the fermenter. After bottle conditioning, it is usually gone.

 

[thehaze]

I can share my own experience as well: I have used US-05 over 40 times as a homebrewer and have used it 10 times in the last year, in bigger batches ( 550 liters ). I have not experienced any twang, tartness or other particularities with it. As a homebrewer, I used to pitch 2 sachets for beers that had an OG of at least 1.055-1.060, and incrementaly raised the quantity with any increase in density. Fermentis recommends a pitch rate of 50-80 gr/hl. For my bigger batches, I use a whole 500 gr brick for every batch, which is around 600 liters of wort. So I pitch at the high end of the recommended scale.

However, I have a few friends that do not like US-05, and changed to something else. What I have noticed with US-05 is the somewhat slower fermentation when compared with other strains, weird attenuation in complex worts, where mash temperature was high. Also, some different / sharper* perceived hop flavour and aroma, in some hop combinations - this is when compared with the likes of S-33, BRY-97, Nottingham, Verdant - the caveat being that hoppy beers fermented with US-05 seem to take a bit longer conditioning that with other yeast. Nothing wrong with that - just a few more days.

 

[dmtaylor]

I taste tartness in almost every green net right or of the fermenter. After bottle conditioning, it is usually gone.

Ditto. This is the taste of tiny amounts of yeast that haven't settled out yet.

 

[kylewag]

What temp are you fermenting at?

There seems to be a bit of a mentality shift on HBT regarding US-05. In the past, people almost always insisted keeping it below 66-68 because of the flavor profile. As of recent I seem to see people talk about how forgiving it is 68+. I’m not sure what’s driven the change but I’m in the below 68 camp. I ferment it in the mid 60’s and find I clean and enjoyable.

Same here. I fermented a cream ale & an APA this year with it @ 65-68 and very clean flavor.

 

[moreb33rplz]

I swear every yeast strain has been described by someone on this board as having every type of off-flavor at some point or another. The consensus is there is no consensus.

I've used US-05 a lot, I usually ferment at 65 (fermenter wall temp), and I primarily use it in APA and IPA. I haven't noticed tart, I get expected attenuation, and it takes a long time to flocc out compared to other yeasts I use a lot

 

[wepeeler]

I swear every yeast strain has been described by someone on this board as having every type of off-flavor at some point or another. The consensus is there is no consensus.

I've used US-05 a lot, I usually ferment at 65 (fermenter wall temp), and I primarily use it in APA and IPA. I haven't noticed tart, I get expected attenuation, and it takes a long time to flocc out compared to other yeasts I use a lot

That's because there are so many other factors than just the yeast. We are definitely not all brewing the same!

Try hitting your keg with Biofine Clear. My US05 beers are brilliantly clear less than a week in the keg. I use an oz per 5 gallons, but I think the dosage is like 1/2 or even a 1/4 that. Whoops. Been working for me. I use it in every beer except my neipas.

 

[Beermeister32]

If you don’t like US-05, try some of the others. I’d suggest you try Nottingham. Dry packs, easy to keep on hand, just as easy to use, produces fine ales.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Ancedotals can lead to curiosity which can lead to suspicion which can lead to casual experimentation which can lead to better beer.

---

It may not be possible to have a consensus since people taste beer differently.

Some of the 1st person ancedotals have remained consistent over the years. Anything that's 'hear-say' can be discarded without thought. It's the difference between "I get peach flavors from US-05" and "You will get peach flavors from US-05". Over time one can identify a number of people who seem to be quietly looking into this topic. Follow them across multiple forums.

Yeast provider product information sheets can be good sources of yeast flavor profiles. Sometimes the information is on web pages (rather than PDFs) at the provider's web site. It's been a while since I've listened to yeast provider videos, but there may be additional information there as well.

Split batches of the same yeast, with different pitching techniques, may be interesting. Over in AHA forums, there was discussion a number of years ago on flavor differences between 1st pitch and re-pitches.

Split batches with a dry pitch and an overbuilt starter may be a starting point that offers new insights. It's highly unlikely that dry vs re-hydrated will yield fresh insights.

Be sure to record the 'best by' date of the yeast and 'lot' information. In additional to full recipes (including water profile), mash temperature, fermentation temperature, and additional ingredients (yeast nutrient?, clarifiers?, ?) could also be noted.

 

[chipotlemonger]

If you don’t like US-05, try some of the others. I’d suggest you try Nottingham. Dry packs, easy to keep on hand, just as easy to use, produces fine ales.

Good advice. I am a fan of both US-05 and Nottingham, but I can see how some may not like one or the other. Just depends on what you want in your beer!

 

[Protos]

I like US-05, not for its supposed "cleanliness" (Kölsch yeasts are way cleaner, if cleanliness is what's needed) but for its nice peachy esters. The joy is mired however by its excessive and inconsistent tartness. It just comes about or doesn't, and most often it does. I tried the yeast in many ways: dry sprinkling, rerhydrating, making starter, slurry harvesting up to 3rd generatioln, cold fermentation, hot fermentation. I'm still to find out what makes some beers tart. Definitely, not an infection, it's a different kind of acidity than what Lactobacillus brings about in my rare infected beers. It also doesn't seem dependent on the grist or fermentation temperature (though, cold-fermented batches seem to come out acidic more often than the warm-fermented).
To me, it's a very unpredictable yeast, I never know what I get from it in the next batch. I'd like to stop using it alltogether but its unique peach nose and also that it's present in so many recipes makes me to continue my search for the US-05 sweetspot. Haven't found it yet, I must confess.

 

[Miraculix]

I like US-05, not for its supposed "cleanliness" (Kölsch yeasts are way cleaner, if cleanliness is what's needed) but for its nice peachy esters. The joy is mired however by its excessive and inconsistent tanginess. It just comes about or doesn't, and most often it does. I tried the yeast in many ways: dry sprinkling, rerhydrating, making starter, slurry harvesting up to 3rd generatioln, cold fermentation, hot fermentation. I'm still to find out what makes some beers tang. Definitely, not an infection, it's a different kind of tanginess than what Lactobacillus brings about in my rare infected beers. It also doesn't seem dependent on the grist or fermentation temperature (though, cold-fermented batches seem to come out acidic more often than the warm-fermented).
To me, it's a very unpredictable yeast, I never know what I get from it in the next batch. I'd like to stop using it alltogether but its unique peach nose and also that it's present in so many recipes makes me to continue my search for the US-05 sweetspot. Haven't found it yet, I must confess.

Sounds like my personal mystery with the coming and going head retention problem. I cannot give you any advice but just wanted to say, what would home-brewing be without these little things that we just cannot get a grasp on. Probably boring .

 

[Protos]

No doubts, that well may be very true for many!

For me, I hate uncertainty and unpredictability in brewing, as well as in life in general. I pre-calculate my brews the most thorough way, down to a single gram, and plan the process to a tiniest detail. That's why I like brewing: there's not much places left in this life where I still keep the full control. There's no place for spontaneousness in my book; order and planning is everything. And when something works not as planned and the chaos comes loose, I get pretty frustrated. I'm looking at you, Fermentis US-05.

 

[Miraculix]

No doubts, that well may be very true for many!

For me, I hate uncertainty and unpredictability in brewing, as well as in life in general. I pre-calculate my brews the most thorough way, down to a single gram, and plan the process to a tiniest detail. That's why I like brewing: there's not much places left in this life where I still keep the full control. There's no place for spontaneousness in my book; order and planning is everything. And when something works not as planned and the chaos comes loose, I get pretty frustrated. I'm looking at you, Fermentis US-05.

Hahahaha, that might the the true reason why it seems only to affect you. The wise us05 tries to teach you a valuable lesson, to use Yoda's words:

Embracing and accepting the chaos you must!

 

[Protos]

I like the philosophic turn of this humble yeast conversation
My feeling is that I'm already forced to "embrace", "accept" and "tolerate" too much Chaos around me, which I have no means of control, to allow this schit to creep into my Brewhouse too.
So, US-05 chaotical tartness will be tamed or... Or no "or-s".
It will be wrestled, subdued and tamed some day, period.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

When I first started homebrewing, one of the first kits I brewed came with Cali dry yeast. I thought it was really good. After being told it was just repackaged US-05, I purchased four 11 gr packets of US-05 from my usual online store because they didn't carry Cali yeast. Well, the first time I used it the beer tasted terrible and I figured being new to brewing it had to be something I did wrong. Just recently I brewed an all grain kolsch recipe and had some US-05 on hand and figured it won't be a kolsch but how bad could it really be? It tasted like some funky peach wine and I didn't care for the flavor at all. I don't remember Cali yeast tasting at all like this. It was fermented at 68f. At this point I've pretty much made up my mind that I won't be buying anymore US-05 and I strongly believe it's not the all purpose good for all yeast it's made out to be.

Yuck!


DMF

 

[day_trippr]

lol!

 

[dmtaylor]

When I first started homebrewing, one of the first kits I brewed came with Cali dry yeast. I thought it was really good. After being told it was just repackaged US-05, I purchased four 11 gr packets of US-05 from my usual online store because they didn't carry Cali yeast. Well, the first time I used it the beer tasted terrible and I figured being new to brewing it had to be something I did wrong. Just recently I brewed an all grain kolsch recipe and had some US-05 on hand and figured it won't be a kolsch but how bad could it really be? It tasted like some funky peach wine and I didn't care for the flavor at all. I don't remember Cali yeast tasting at all like this. It was fermented at 68f. At this point I've pretty much made up my mind that I won't be buying anymore US-05 and I strongly believe it's not the all purpose good for all yeast it's made out to be.

The only dry yeast I'm aware of that's called "Cali" or "California" by the actual packager is Mangrove Jack M54 "California Lager", which is probably actually a repack of Fermentis K-97 German Ale yeast, not US-05 which is entitled "American Ale" yeast by the manufacturer. People might say US-05 is from Chico, California, and they might be correct. But what was the source of information about your "Cali" yeast? Did it say so on the pack, or did somebody verbally imply that this pack of yeast was meant for California-style ales or lagers? There is also a big difference between California ale and California lager, two totally different types of beer. California lager generally refers to Anchor Steam, a warm fermented lager, which is nothing like an ale brewed with a Chico yeast such as US-05. This can all be confusing for sure. If you meant to make an Anchor Steam or a Kolsch-style beer, but used US-05 and fermented cool, yes that's not going to turn out quite right. And yes, likely peachy, as you found out. This is not to say that K-97 or M54 would have turned out a whole lot better -- those yeasts have their own problems too in my experience -- tart, hazy, and yeasty instead of peachy. Better choices for a hybrid ale/lager might include BRY-97, S-04, S-23, or W-34/70.

 

[Protos]

Mangrove Jack M54 "California Lager", which is probably actually a repack of Fermentis K-97 German Ale yeast

...or better to say of Lallemand's Köln, to be absolutely exact, as both are not nearly as tart as K-97
The rest is explained very correctly, I'd say.