Tube & Shell Heat Exchanger

[biertourist]

I do think you're missing out on the REAL potential for this kind of hardware, though. (Expensive bit of equipment to use for CHILLING.)

This thing is just DYING to be used as an external calandria ESPECIALLY if it's heavy duty like this and can withstand a bit of pressure (but providing steam to it would be the challenge). Note: If anyone tries this remember that you're essentially building a pipe bomb and hoping that you don't pressurize it enough to ACTUALLY EXPLODE... Dangerous business...

I might be a giant weirdo but I dream of home brew-level steam both for amazing control over mashing AND for gentle boiling and things like an external calandria. External calandrias could work AMAZINGLY well in home brew whirlpool-capable kettles. You can get WAY higher hop utilization when using a calandria but I haven't calculated what kind of pump you'd need to recirculate the whole volume but you need to recirculate the entire volume 7 - 12 times in an hour (probably way easier at home brew scale than professional scale). You also get way more volatilization and higher boil-off rates so DMS quickly becomes a non-issue and you can possible reduce your boil time down to 45 min depending upon the temp / pressure in the calandria.

You also get way better circulation in the kettle this way.


External calandrias could really benefit micros the most, IMHO as again it uses technology that most micros already have (whirlpool / kettle combo tanks) AND it can increase hop utilization and throughput in the brewhouse; running both the normal kettle heat (direct fire or steam) plus the calandria recirculation could also get you up to boil faster and require a shorter boil. -It's the engineering side of the equation that's the problem: you need right sized pipes, the right amount of surface area, fast enough pumps, and high enough velocity so that the thing doesn't get super fouled up.

If a HEX like this can provide enough surface area for a micro and be adapted to use steam as the heat source you've got something pretty amazing as it's dead simple to clean by popping off the tri clamps and running a brush through the tubes every once in a while and just a CIP caustic cycle in between. --Can you use caustic on silver solder, though, I wonder? What about acid sanitizers (I'm thinking specifically of peracetic acid if that helps)?


Adam

 

[Hex]

http://byo.com/stories/item/2849-double-pipe-wort-chiller-projects

 

[biertourist]

OMG this thing could be used as a HEX for HERMS (or even external steam-based recirculation mashing!).

I SOOO want one of these plus an appropriately sized (small) steam generator for my home brewery. Think about what you could do with it:

1. Provide external HERMS-like temperature stepped mashing capability for recirculated mashes (with the gentleness of HERMs and the performance of RIMS)
2. Use it as an external calandria for boiling
3. Use it has a HEX for chilling


Even without steam, this thing could ROCK for #1 and #3 - just recirculate hot water through the shell and wort through the tubes during the mash and then cold water through it during the chilling cycle. (recirculate boiling wort through it for the last few minute of the boil to sanitize in between) --Much like some folks on here do with their convoluted counter flow chillers today.

If you want to send this to me for a couple of weeks I could certainly test it in a HERMS setup for you.... ; ) (Can't blame me for trying.)

Adam

 

[biertourist]

Now I'm wondering whether we could just use stainless swimming pool heat exchangers for this exact purpose....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Woo...985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232a8a5c21

For $149 this thing is a lot cheaper than convoluted copper counter flow chillers AND it's stainless...
Plus it's rated for pressure so low pressure steam seems like an eventual future possibility. (Sanitary tri clamp fittings would seal the deal.)

[Edit] And a copper alternative for only $85: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Side-Arm-He...8275258?_trksid=p2047675.m1982&_trkparms=aid% 3D333005%26algo%3DRIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D177%26m eid%3D3212828654009685649%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D1 088%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D151037565985%26

Adam

 

[Stealthcruiser]

WissaBrewGuy............I think you would play hell cleaning said unit, with the wort flowing in the shell, vs. the tubes!

 

[WissaBrewGuy]

WissaBrewGuy............I think you would play hell cleaning said unit, with the wort flowing in the shell, vs. the tubes!

Yeah you are absolutely right about that.

 

[ScubaSteve]

WTF? How did I miss all these posts?! Great discussion so far....

WPStrassburg: Lol, I'd love to have a chunk of SS like that in my garage...just to look at and fondle Good point about the "water out" port...we'll see how it performs...I'm only losing an inch or so to air. Could possibly plug the existing port (or use for thermowell) and install one higher on the other side.

Biertourist: Hadn't even considered a calandria. Sounds like you're interested in steam...it can definitely be done, I know Yuri made a go of it.

I've been playing around with other projects lately (welding up a B3 1550 clone out of some spare strut i had). I will order the water fittings today and hopefully do a test this weekend. I'm still unhappy with the hack job I did on the welding....I may slice off the ends and buy fresh triclovers...trick would be to get a flat surface again (I could machine it flat but it is a very odd shape and I don't know how to clamp it right).

 

[ScubaSteve]

Okay, so here's the latest....decided to chop the ends off and try again. I couldn't stand how ugly it was..solder was a pretty ghetto way to cover up imperfections and as you can see in the pics there was still some small spots of corrosion because I overheated the SS. It's all a learning experience for me, so I guess it's fine. TIG welding and machining are pretty complex skills, and I just don't have enough time with either to call myself competent. At any rate, I bought the rest of the fittings I'll need and I'll do some things differently this time around.

I had a hell of a time cutting through....not only is it 316SS, but it has been welded, which makes the steel harder than woodpecker lips! Notice how the solder basically melted off and kind of came off in globs? ipe: I thought I was going to burn out my saw...popped the breaker a few times...definitely need to buy another blade for the Rage 2 saw...not cheap.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I have no idea if the silver solder wicked down deep enough to still provide a joint around the individual tubes....I doubt it. The saw cut created a very irregular surface on the ends, which will make welding the ferrules on a lot harder....so I need to machine them flat somehow.

Ideally, i could use a fly cutter to square off the ends, but that will not be possible because of the length of the chiller. After staring at things for a while, I decided I would use my milling machine in horizontal mode and use a wide cutter. I'd really like to use a facing mill or shell mill...but that would be quite expensive and tooling is very rare for my machine. So, let's keep our fingers crossed

I have everything set up and will most likely try to square things off in the next few days.

 

[orangehero]

Why do you need to machine it? Just get a big file to do the rough work. Draw file it flat and smooth...if you're careful it will be as flat and smooth as from a surface grinder.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Because the sawblade deflected quite a bit since it was such hard material....there is a noticeable angle to the ends....plus there are some significant ridges. No way in h#ll am I going to stand there with a file and try to do it....at least not until I am done with re-soldering the tubes, etc. This will be a 1/16" DOC with just a few passes per side, so I am pretty sure the HSS cutter can handle it. Looking into proper feeds and speeds right now.

 

[WPStrassburg]

me thinks that is going to end ugly. The lift from the cutter may end up lifting the piece out of the vice. Any chance you can spin your vice 90* and chuck up the fly cutter with the mill in horizontal mode to face the ends off? the lathe not big enough to turn it down? If you're putting a ferrule back on all you really need is a small shoulder turned around the circumference not the whole face true.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I hear ya.....going to take light cuts. The picture doesn't show, but the tube is well within the vise. The lathe is big enough, it's the fittings on the side that will create a dangerous runout. I feel safer running the horizontal mill with a skimming cut. As far as the vise, this one is too wide...it can only be in the Y axis...only 3 T-slots this one was probably designed for 4. If I could rotate 90 degrees, you bet I would be looking at a flycutter!

FWIW, I probably should have gone with a 3-4" ferrule just to decrease the size of the shoulder....too late though...I ordered some short ferrules this time and plan to purge these much better....also going to use smaller rod and tungsten....if I get cold feet i may just tack it with the TIG and solder the rest of the perimeter.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well, got sidetracked by several other projects, and had some problems with the motor on my mill. I replaced the motor, adjusted the pulleys, etc. and took a crack at smoothing the ends out. It worked pretty well, the vise held everything nicely. However, there were areas that the cutter "grabbed" for one reason or another, and there are a few small depressions. Should be okay, because I can fill those in. Here's what I have so far...planning on TIGing in the very near future!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Click for video!

 

[AnOldUR]

Rotate the vise 90 degrees on the table and put a face mill in the horizontal . . .




edit:
shuda read more. WPStrassburg beat me to it.


Thought the 1996 Fadal stuffed in my one car garage was impressive.
That machine is a piece of art.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yeah, this particular vise is too wide....and it doesn't have mounting holes fore/aft. I got a pretty good deal on it, considering it is a Kurt and shipping is usually the dealbreaker. It's probably too big for the mill, but it's hell for stout.

Ironically, I sold the lathe pictured above....got a larger one. I can put the whole thing in the lathe now and do a basic cleanup. I think I will machine a "shoulder" at each end...that way the triclover ferrule will fit over it and I can silver solder it. Because the endcaps are so thick and the ferrules are so thin, I really don't trust myself to TIG it.....I'm sick of fiddling with that part of the project, and they have to be done correctly or the chiller will rust.

Before I can use the lathe, I have to machine the toolpost to fit the compound....which requires me to fiddle with the milling machine some more...the new motor is causing some overcurrent issues since it is 3 HP. Eventually, I hope I can get all the bugs ironed out!

 

[AnOldUR]

If you can find a cheap piece of steel plate, think about making a subplate so you can mount the vise perpendicular to the head. You'll find lots of advantage to having the capacity to face mill.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I actually do have a pretty large chunk of 1/2" steel plate...long enough and probably wide enough. It was part of an old machine acquisition, full of holes tapped for mounting this, that, and the other thing. I use it on my wooden workbenches to "persuade" things with a hammer. I have been avoiding chopping it up, so maybe I can use it for just this purpose. Thanks for the idea

 

[ScubaSteve]

(Deleted...duplicate post)

 

[ScubaSteve]

If you can find a cheap piece of steel plate, think about making a subplate so you can mount the vise perpendicular to the head. You'll find lots of advantage to having the capacity to face mill.

Something else worth mentioning....the head is a "duplex" style...it swivels down for vertical milling. The only current limitation is as you describe....being able to position the vise so I can use a flycutter/endmill on the "side" of an object.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So here's the latest progress....I actually did stick it in the lathe (got a bigger lathe...not for this project, just cuz' it was an awesome deal). A little bit of runout, but not too bad.

I faced the ends flat and machined a shoulder into the side that the triclover ferrule will slip onto. The plan is to silver braze it together...and re-braze the tubes into place.

And without further ado.....

 

[ScubaSteve]

CLICK FOR VIDEO!!!!





CLICK FOR VIDEO!!!!!

 

[ScubaSteve]

And here's some more progress...I brazed everything together....then polished everything up. Phew...lots of work! Next, I'll be working on the end caps and putting the water fittings on.

 

[pickles]

Looking really good! What filler material did you use for brazing?

 

[DrunkleJon]

Much purdier this time. I am jealous of your tools, materials and skill.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Looking really good! What filler material did you use for brazing?

It was Safety-Silv 45, with the black hi temp flux. I know I went a little overboard, but it is really difficult to see what you're doing when the flux is crusty, etc. The perfectionist in me wants to keep messing with it, but it is pretty smooth, and the few nooks and crannies that are there can be scrubbed out.

I used a short ferrule this time, and I think that's going to make it even easier to clean. It should also reduce the volume of wort that can pool in the ends...AND, I think it will allow me to use the chiller in a horizontal position. This will solve the problem with the water completely immersing all the tubes when in a vertical position.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Much purdier this time. I am jealous of your tools, materials and skill.

Thanks! It was a real learning experience. I just knew I couldn't live with the crusty, rusty mess I had before.

No need to be jealous, lol. Most of this stuff I came upon by chance and snatched it up at a really good price...tools included. The lathe and mill cost far less than a B3 sculpture, and they can do many things...including making/saving money on custom parts, repairs, etc.

Not too many skills to be jealous of here....I am a DIY'er because I want to learn. I'll probably hop to something totally different after this project, which makes it hard to get really good at any one thing.

 

[WPStrassburg]

It was Safety-Silv 45, with the black hi temp flux. I know I went a little overboard, but it is really difficult to see what you're doing when the flux is crusty, etc. The perfectionist in me wants to keep messing with it, but it is pretty smooth, and the few nooks and crannies that are there can be scrubbed out.

I used a short ferrule this time, and I think that's going to make it even easier to clean. It should also reduce the volume of wort that can pool in the ends...AND, I think it will allow me to use the chiller in a horizontal position. This will solve the problem with the water completely immersing all the tubes when in a vertical position.

Throw it back in the lathe and face the braze off if you want it really nice or have any concern of the nooks harboring anything. Looks great though and will be nice that you will have a cleanable chiller.

 

[pickles]

I used safety-Silv 56 on my projects but the price is outrageous now. I'll get safety-Silv 45 for the next project, a little less silver should make a bit of difference in price. I wasn't sure how well it worked on stainless but obviously is works just fine. Great work all around!

 

[ScubaSteve]

It sure is expensive! I got the uncoated wire in small amounts from Ebay, and that's probably cheaper for the small stuff. I have also used the coated stuff and it is a major PITA.

As far as the nooks and crannies, the pics you see are right after polishing and there is some grit in there. Once I scrubbed everything out with dish soap (cleaned the tubes with a beer line brush) it is clean as a whistle.

Can't wait for the weekend, where I will hopefully be finishing this thing off.

 

[ScubaSteve]

All right brewers...hold onto your beers! It is complete!!!! Just gotta test it, which will happen in the next few weeks when I brew. In these pics, you can see that I machined down the camlocks and left a shoulder on them which I inserted into a hole in the endcap. It was a nice snug fit which made it perfect for doing a sanitary fusion weld on the inside of each cap.

 

[ScubaSteve]

And some more closeups. I actually soldered the water fittings on just because it would be too hard to weld.

 

[ScubaSteve]

And the unit fully assembled.

 

[Facinerous]

Nice build. I would love to do something similar if I had the tooling you do. I'd like to hear an update when you have put it to use.

ps. You should make a simple base for it to sit in. That may be more handy than one would initially think.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Hadn't considered a base, I was just thinking about mounting it to my brewing rig, which is made from strut and has all sorts of possibilities. But I have seen those convoluted cfc chiller "caddies" that B3 sells:

They look nice! You can mount your pump on it as well. Thanks for the idea!

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Nice job! It too am not the greatest welder. But crappy welds are beautiful if they hold and it's your own work. I'd love to have that mill. Don't have the slightest idea what to do with it, but it would be fun to learn. I'm very interested to see how this performs.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Nice job! I too am not the greatest welder. But crappy welds are beautiful if they hold and it's your own work.

It takes a LOT of practice and dedication to learning from your mistakes...especially TIG. I am betting pretty comfortable with fusion welding and was really happy with how the endcaps turned out...very close to being professional quality. Two handed tig in awkward positions, etc. is a whole 'nother story.

I am also finding that brazing and soldering are really useful tools for when welding just isn't possible. No way was I going to try and TIG all those thin tubes in place!

 

[BBL_Brewer]

It takes a LOT of practice and dedication to learning from your mistakes...especially TIG. I am betting pretty comfortable with fusion welding and was really happy with how the endcaps turned out...very close to being professional quality. Two handed tig in awkward positions, etc. is a whole 'nother story.

I am also finding that brazing and soldering are really useful tools for when welding just isn't possible. No way was I going to try and TIG all those thin tubes in place!

I haven't done any TIG. There's a local shop that does a fine job for fair pay. Amazes me how perfect their welds are. It truly is an art that takes skill.

 

[nacho2100]

so i would love to hear how it worked.