Thoughts On Brewing with Rye

[Lefou]

I recently bought a six of Yards Extra Special Ale, a surprisingly good version of English Bitter.
It's been around for years, but it's the first time I've actually stepped out of my square little box to try ale brewed with crystal/caramel malts and extra hops.
I'd like to re-create a Special Bitter, but with rye as a base malt ingredient
Now with that out of the way, let's discuss rye and rye malt. I'd like some experiences of anyone brewing with rye, how it was used, and how it turned out.

The prospective Bitter recipe as an English Rye Ale that tickled my fancy ...

SG=1.044-48 IBU=30 ABV=4.5%
*****************************
72% Maris Otter Pale
20% Rye malt (subbed for wheat malt)
6.5% Caramel/Crystal 40L
2-3% Acidulated malt (mash pH)
WLP 005 and Styrian Goldings hops

Opinions?

 

[cubsfan212223]

I've only used rye in a pale ale to try and mimic the restless years rye pale ale by Temperance brewing. I think I used around 10% rye and it came through pretty well.

 

[Lefou]

Thanks.
I'd also like impressions on how the rye influenced the beer as far as texture, color, and flavor are concerned, too.

 

[JohnSand]

I use rye fairly often, mostly in Rye PA and an ESB. I like the spicy flavor it adds. The ESB is 10% Simpson's Rye Crystal, 90% base malt, bittering hops only, or some late noble hops. Sssshhh, that recipe is a closely held secret. Don't do anything like post it on a public forum!

 

[Kent88]

If one wanted to make a brew with just 6-row and rye, what kind of ratio would one need to make sure that there was just enough enzymes to convert all the rye?

 

[JohnSand]

I would enter it into a calculator. Brewer's Friend recipe calculator tells you if you have enough diastatic power.

 

[Lefou]

I use rye fairly often, mostly in Rye PA and an ESB. I like the spicy flavor it adds. The ESB is 10% Simpson's Rye Crystal, 90% base malt, bittering hops only, or some late noble hops. Sssshhh, that recipe is a closely held secret. Don't do anything like post it on a public forum!

Bitters according to BJCP have a wide color range, IIRC, between 6-16 SRM. I was looking for something on the lighter side (under 10) to refrain from mucking with my base soft water profile too much. What I have posted is a fairly simple ESB profile for a pale ale with grains my LBHS usually has on hand.

 

[SEndorf]

Rye is one of my favorite malts.

Batch Size: 10.80 gal
Boil Size: 14.99 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 12.29 gal
Efficiency: 78.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.2 %

1 lbs Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 4.5 %
11 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 2 49.6 %
4 lbs Saltzgitter Pilsner (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 18.0 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L Grain 4 11.3 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 9.0 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramunich II Malt (61.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.8 %
3.0 oz Briess Midnight Wheat (744.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.9 %
0.50 oz Hallertau Magnum [13.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Czech Saaz [2.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 oz Czech Saaz [2.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min
Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300)
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 15.8 IBUs
Est Color: 14.4 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.1 %
WLP300 - range 68-72

 

[Lefou]

If one wanted to make a brew with just 6-row and rye, what kind of ratio would one need to make sure that there was just enough enzymes to convert all the rye?

If I'm not wrong, rye malt that isn't kilned to the dark side can convert itself just fine. Online articles claiming wheat malt has a fairly low diastatic potential as a base malt made me wonder a bit. Briess lists their kilned rye malt as having a DP factor of 105, so it definitely isn't solely an adjunct ingredient.

 

[SEndorf]

Agreed. Rye converts just fine. Though depending on your system, some rice hulls may be needed to prevent stuck mash.

 

[Kent88]

So I can make an all-rye fermented beverage?

Neat!

 

[SEndorf]

So I can make an all-rye fermented beverage? Neat!

Whoa! You may want to re-think that. Rye has no husks like barley. You will likely make a gooey, viscous, stuck beer reminiscent of cough syrup.
Rye is intense and needs a balance of malts, and is typically no more than 50% of the grain bill. See my recipe above.

 

[mongoose33]

I think the recipe you posted in your OP is fine. I might add a little more rye relative to the MO, and maybe some flaked rye. I brew a rye using this:

9# Maris Otter
3# Rye Malt
6 oz Choc Wheat
4 oz Flaked Rye
1 Scoop Rice Hulls

.5 oz Columbus 60 min
.5 oz Columbus 20 min
1 oz Styrian Celeia 10 min

Wyeast 2112 (yeah, California Lager yeast). Ferment at 64.


Not terribly far away from what you proposed. I'd drink it. As far as flavor and mouthfeel, it's a slightly....oilier? fuller?....mouthfeel, full of flavor. It's one of the beers in my standard rotation.

In fact, I'm thinking I should go pull a pint right now.

 

[SEndorf]

Agreed.. The OP (Lefou's) recipe looks fine and I'd bump the rye.
But another poster asked about 100% rye which IMO would be as mistake.

 

[Kent88]

Whoa! You may want to re-think that.

All hypothetical. I wasn't aware that rye had so much diastatic power.

Now that I think about it, though, maybe a gallon test batch, BIAB'd, would be a fun little experiment...

 

[thehaze]

Thursday, I will be brewing this recipe: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/512076/05-rye-pale-ale-simcoe

I have some rice hulls to use in the mash. I know 50% sounds like much, but I need to try it. All Rye beers I've tried so far, were pretty disappointing in terms of how much Rye malt they used.

I'll keep you posted. ( the recipe actually includes English Malted Rye from Simpsons, but Brewer'sFriend does not have regular english rye in the list of grains )

 

[BobBailey]

Malted rye has more than enough diastatic power to convert itself. If you're using flaked rye or unmalted rye berries almost any 2 row will have enough to convert at least 30 to 40%. If using rye berries you need to do a cereal mash first. In any event, rye can get sticky in the mash. I've used up to 25% without lautering problems, but I ran off very slowly.

 

[SEndorf]

I always use 50%.
Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Lefou]

I think the recipe you posted in your OP is fine. I might add a little more rye relative to the MO, and maybe some flaked rye.
Not terribly far away from what you proposed. I'd drink it. As far as flavor and mouthfeel, it's a slightly....oilier? fuller?....mouthfeel, full of flavor. It's one of the beers in my standard rotation.

In fact, I'm thinking I should go pull a pint right now.

Changed my grist to reflect bump in the rye malt. It doesn't look much different gravity-wise in the calculator, but seems to appeal as a seasonal fall beer. I think your suggestion was a good idea, I'll use it.

 

[rhys333]

I recently bought a six of Yards Extra Special Ale, a surprisingly good version of English Bitter.
It's been around for years, but it's the first time I've actually stepped out of my square little box to try ale brewed with crystal/caramel malts and extra hops.
I'd like to re-create a Special Bitter, but with rye as a base malt ingredient
Now with that out of the way, let's discuss rye and rye malt. I'd like some experiences of anyone brewing with rye, how it was used, and how it turned out.

The prospective Bitter recipe as an English Rye Ale that tickled my fancy ...

SG=1.044-48 IBU=30 ABV=4.5%
*****************************
72% Maris Otter Pale
20% Rye malt (subbed for wheat malt)
6.5% Caramel/Crystal 40L
2-3% Acidulated malt (mash pH)
WLP 005 and Styrian Goldings hops

Opinions?

I recently brewed a honey wheat (rye) beer that you may be able to draw something from in planning your special bitter. Similar to this style, I wanted lower 4.5% abv and a sizable contribution of simple sugars - honey in place of SBs invert. In order to retain mouthfeel, what I ended up doing is mashing high at 155F and including 9% rye for body. The finished beer drinks like a 5.5% beer, with a touch of sweetness, body and a pleasant snappy dry finish from the honey alcohol.

In your case, I might consider dropping the rye contribution to about 15% (it gets "thick" at 20-25% IMHO) and the abv to 3.5 - 3.75 or so, and then boosting it up with #2 invert to get your 4.5% abv.

Alternately, if you prefer boosting the rye content as others suggest, then I might drop your abv even lower, and substituting the rest with invert. That way you get the rye contribution, but it doesn't end up too thick.