Rye flavour

[orgenomescii]

2 weeks ago I brewed a RyePA (recipe to follow) with a 30% rye grain bill. It is ready for bottling but I don't really taste the fabled "spiciness" of the rye malt; it has definitely added something nice, full and weighty to the body but I find it hard to put a finger on what exactly that taste is. Maybe slightly more "grainy" like a rustic homemade bread. I milled all the grains together fairly finely and am wondering if I didn't properly mill the rye as some of the grains slipped through the millstone and hence if I haven't gotten the most out of my rye malt, or if rye simply doesn't have as strong a flavour profile as I was led to believe by online posts & articles. I didn't go crazy with hops so while their flavour is quite noticeable they aren't overpowering the malt flavour.

So did I mess up somewhere or does rye just not have as prominent a flavour or taste as I've seen online?

Recipe: 10L BIAB
-1.6kg Chateau Pale Ale (59.9%)
-800g Chateau Rye (30%)
-250g Weyermann Caraamber (9.4%)
-20g Chateau Roasted Barley (0.8%)

Hops:
60mins 15g Northern Brewer 10.1%AA
30mins 8g Cashmere 8.9%AA
10mins 6g Cashmere 8.9%AA

Half a pack of US-05

 

[G_robertus]

Rye tastes like grain mostly, but the effect on body and mouthfeel is huge. I also don't get what 'spicy' is supposed to mean, but I don't get any of it either. I associate spicy with chillies, which I definitely don't get. But I also don't get 'generic spice flavour' from it. If anything it is somewhat earthy depending on brand and colour. Crisp rye malt is very dark (24 EBC) and is basically Munich or Vienna malt made from rye. I use it mostly to complement beers I feel need extra body, slickness or frothy head. It's great in black IPA, sours or pastry beers.

 

[orgenomescii]

Rye tastes like grain mostly, but the effect on body and mouthfeel is huge. I also don't get what 'spicy' is supposed to mean, but I don't get any of it either. I associate spicy with chillies, which I definitely don't get. But I also don't get 'generic spice flavour' from it. If anything it is somewhat earthy depending on brand and colour. Crisp rye malt is very dark (24 EBC) and is basically Munich or Vienna malt made from rye. I use it mostly to complement beers I feel need extra body, slickness or frothy head. It's great in black IPA, sours or pastry beers.

Yeah I wasn't expecting "chili" spicy but maybe something mildly peppery just from the way I have seen people describe it. I think it has added some much needed body that my last beer was lacking but it's hard to discern if it has really added any noticeable flavour to the brew.

 

[dmtaylor]

Many people including myself have been saying for over a decade that rye is NOT spicy but rather is bready in flavor, and contributes more to body and head retention than anything else. It also gives a slight blue/gray "sheen" to the beer when used in large amounts like this.

 

[AlexKay]

If you have some of the rye malt left over, eat a handful. Otherwise snack on it the next time you have rye (malted or flaked) handy. That’s what it tastes like. Sometimes flavors don’t translate 100% between grain and wort, but usually you get pretty close.

 

[BigEd]

Rye is not spicy as in a hot chilie, spicy curry, or even a warm spice laden pastry might be. Rye "spiciness" is subtle and perhaps very slightly peppery like you might get from a good rye bread compared to wheat bread.

 

[MicroMickey]

Many people including myself have been saying for over a decade that rye is NOT spicy but rather is bready in flavor, and contributes more to body and head retention than anything else. It also gives a slight blue/gray "sheen" to the beer when used in large amounts like this.

When I started brewing with rye some 25 years ago, there was nothing in print telling me how much to use. Through trial and error, I determined that if you aren't using at least 20% rye in your grain bill, you're wasting your time. In my favorite rye recipe, 1/3 of the grain bill is rye.
Malted rye performs differently than raw rye in the mash tun. That "sticky mash" syndrome that we're all warned about can be a nightmare during lautering if using raw rye. Once malted, that gummy nature pretty much goes away; I find that malted rye gives me no problems as long as I don't try to speed up the lautering.

While we're on this subject, does anyone have experience with triticale - raw or malted? (triticale is a cross between rye and wheat)

 

[AlexKay]

I made a hefetriticalen once, but other than getting to say “hefetriticalen,” it seemed awfully similar to wheat as an ingredient.

 

[day_trippr]

Almost want to say "hefetriticalen" three times to see if some character pops into existence
As noted, triticale is a hybrid cross of some wheat and rye strains, so it isn't surprising it takes after at least one parent...

Cheers!

 

[lumpher]

First beer I won an award for (local, not national comp), was for an Irish Red i used 3 pounds of rye instead of 3 victory the recipe called for... Rye-rish red... it's definitely not pepper-spicy even at 30%, or at least not 12 or 15 years ago.

 

[Velnerj]

I love to use rye and also don't know what people are talking about with the spiciness. My assumption is that they equate the rye maltiness to rye bread. Which has a bit of a "bite" to it but not because of the rye but because of the caraway that is often used in rye bread.

If you want a peppery bite to your beer use a Belgian/saison yeast or you could even experiment with caraway.

In my mind rye is great for added maltiness and mouthfeel. It makes beer thick and "creamy." that's why I like it.

 

[lumpher]

If you want a peppery flavor for a Belgian or Saison, I've used Paradise Seeds for that. It's not rough and overpowering, and only takes a little to do the job.

 

[Bobby_M]

I taste rye's contribution as an extremely subtle phenol like fennel, caraway, licorice quality. VERY subtle.

 

[Roxhambrewshed]

Maybe take a look at this article. I found it interesting. Cheers!https://beerandbrewing.com/make-you...05.24+EDIT&utm_content=Make+Your+Best+Rye+IPA

 

[Dog House Brew]

I think people translate distilled rye to beer maybe. Distilled rye is always marketed as spice. I do think that rye in spirit is spice/hot. I’ve never had that in brewing from rye. Bread and caraway seed is what I get. The body and thick foam it adds is impressive. I remember drinks lots of Ruthless Rye. I used to brew with it frequently. I just kept a knife handy and scored the top of the mash.

 

[day_trippr]

Scoring the top couple grey muddy inches of the mash is a good idea even without rye

I use my Big Spoon, just before starting the fly sparge...

Cheers!

 

[Dland]

I use rye malt in semi "Classic American Pilsners" substituting for or combined with corn. It is one of my oft repeated lagers, usually at rate of about 12.5% of grist. When doing summer ales, use the same % in blonde and "semi cream ale" recipes.

One of my favorite grists for ale or lager is;

50% Pilsner malt
25% Two row, often a flavorful one like marris otter or golden promise.
12.5% Rye malt
12.5% flaked corn.

Agree that is does add to head retention, also some depth to flavor that could be considered subtlety spicy. Rye also seems to go well with and enhance the flavor of some hops, in my subjective opinion.

 

[orgenomescii]

Is there any reason to scour the top of the mash? I remember mine looked quite slimey but I didn't touch it at all.

 

[Miraculix]

People confuse rye bread flavour that was spiced up with cumin and other spices with rye flavour. That myth follows the home brewers since well before I brewed my first beer.

As others have stated, the real rye flavour is so subtle that it only comes through in a higher percentage of the grist. I'd argue that wheat is easier to detect flavour-wise.

 

[Airborneguy]

I use rye often. I agree with everything being said here and I will add one more: I find that rye in any appreciable quantity tends to encourage chill haze. Chill haze doesn’t bother me at all, but it annoys some people.

 

[MicroMickey]

Rye is one of the grains that almost requires a step mash. The beer does much better with a step mash when brewing with rye, oats, etc.

 

[dmtaylor]

Is there any reason to scour the top of the mash? I remember mine looked quite slimey but I didn't touch it at all.

Yes! Touch it, scour it. The scum layer forms a thin filter layer, which can be a good thing but if it blocks runoff significantly, it is filtering TOO well and you don't need it to filter THAT well. Scour that layer and runoff will happen so much faster, and with no significant disadvantages.

 

[hottpeper13]

If I'm using rye or wheat in 1/2 -1 lb portions, mostly for creaminess and head retention, I'll do the Beta- Alpha step mash. When using in any quantity of 30% - 50% rye or wheat I do a dough in at 97*-104* for a beta glucan rest of 30 min. Makes a huge difference when draining the bag.

 

[MicroMickey]

I would recommend for a recipe like that, to mash in at around 118 - 122 degrees F and add a few drops of CellarScience Glucabuster. I"ve done wheat and malted oat mashes at 100% without stuck sparges. If you believe that malted rye is sticky, try raw rye. It will give you a whole new perspective on stickiness.