Theoretically, say a brewery wants to brew my beer

[teal]

I'd settle for nothing less than a bowl full of brown M&M's

 

[Revvy]

So did this lead to what you have listed in your sig?

Last post on homebrewtalk by the creator of this thread; " 04-21-2011, 09:58 PM."


Doubt you're going to get a response to your inquiry.

 

[Darwin18]

Why did people necro threads Revvy?

 

[BBBF]

Last post on homebrewtalk by the creator of this thread; " 04-21-2011, 09:58 PM."


Doubt you're going to get a response to your inquiry.

True, but his last activity was 04-20-2012 12:58 PM. He could be in lurker mode or subscribed to that thread.

 

[tdigyt]

If you're truly interested in some kind of compensation then the tip about having a lawyer draw up an agreement is your best bet. If they did actually brew it, sell it, and it became a moneymaker for them - maybe you can ask for a tiered percentage of sales/profits? Just brain stormin'.....

Other than that - recognition and free beer at the pub every Tuesday sounds good to me

 

[doctorRobert]

If you're truly interested in some kind of compensation then the tip about having a lawyer draw up an agreement is your best bet. If they did actually brew it, sell it, and it became a moneymaker for them - maybe you can ask for a tiered percentage of sales/profits? Just brain stormin'.....

Other than that - recognition and free beer at the pub every Tuesday sounds good to me

Good advice, now can you go back in time and give it to the guy.

 

[zeg]

Aw, I wanted to jump into the fray and it turns out to be a dead thread? Bah. There goes my weekend.

Since I already did the thinking... why not?

Who owns the copyright to a photo (song, etc) is complicated. Generally, if the work was made for hire then it belongs to the employer. Whether a particular job is for hire or not can be tricky, but it depends on the details of the agreement and how much freedom/control the creator of the work exercised. It's hard to grab a situation and generalize its conclusion, though.

WRT someone trying to protect a recipe, you *could* write a confidentiality agreement, including an agreement not to produce the beer commercially without permission, or specifying the terms under which they can do so, etc.

I can't imagine the brewery signing on to that, though, because it's no longer a friendly agreement, and they don't have much to gain, and a lot to lose.

 

[Irrenarzt]

A few years too late to this thread I realize but here's my experience regardless. Just as a data point for others who may be feeling along the same lines as the OP. I've already been asked about this once before by someone in my local club so I thought it would be OK to post up on this, even if I am late to the game.

I am a homebrewer who has been through exactly what the OP is asking about here. I have a successful homebrew recipe that has won many medals, both locally and regionally. It was a big beer for me last year and was even a possible GABF Pro-Am entry that I had to turn down in favor of a different Pro-Am opportunity that I preferred to pursue last year. In retrospect, I'm glad I went with the path I did, even though we did not medal at GABF, as the beer we brewed for Pro-Am was a crowd favorite and the experience I had brewing the beer was incredible.

My experience with this has been that you will not get paid royalties, nor will you get your name on the label. Just be thankful you got to brew on a larger scale and got to develop your skill set further. Enjoy the recognition you get from your fellow homebrewers and enjoy the free beer they will give you in return for your work/recipe/efforts. Don't get a big head about it. Be humble and continue to grow as a brewer because of your experiences.

It's a freaking recipe. Just be stoked that it's out in the world for that many more people to enjoy.

 

[meis1212]

Why don't you just sell them the recipe? A one time deal? If he likes it that much, he should fork over some cash.

 

[PanzerBanana]

Recipes are protected by copyright laws as long as you have it in a fixed form. IE. Not in your head.

You could put together a contract outlining all of the details of him brewing your beer. Be very clear in the rights you grant to your recipe.

Heck. If he likes it well enough just offer to license him the recipe. He pays you for the license, and is granted permission to brew and sell your beer commercially.

You could either do a flat fee, go for royalties, or perhaps a bit of both. And determine the length that the rights granted last. Which would then free you up after the term to do with it as you please. The whole while your recipe belongs to you.

The other option, is to sell him the recipe outright. Meaning it's no longer yours. In that case ask for more money.

It's like in anything creative. The more rights you grant to someone, the more they have to pay.

 

[zeg]

Recipes are protected by copyright laws as long as you have it in a fixed form. IE. Not in your head.

Except it's not the recipe that is protected, it is the expression of that recipe as something more than a list of ingredients. (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html) There are very few beer recipes that are likely to meet this standard, as the processes are so standard that even a written description is unlikely to be "creative."

Even if you did have a copyrightable recipe, again, the combination of ingredients and the process for making it are not copyrightable. Anyone who knows the recipe is free to make the beer, but they could not produce a copy of the beer recipe. (An unadorned rephrasing of a copyrightable recipe might be considered a derivative work, even if the rewrite wasn't copyrightable in itself---I'm not sure.)

For a recipe, copyright protection is of little value.

 

[cg2112]

Recipes are protected by copyright laws as long as you have it in a fixed form. IE. Not in your head.

You could put together a contract outlining all of the details of him brewing your beer. Be very clear in the rights you grant to your recipe.

Heck. If he likes it well enough just offer to license him the recipe. He pays you for the license, and is granted permission to brew and sell your beer commercially.

Recipes aren't protected AT ALL. You cannot copyright a recipe, and you can't really license out use of your recipe - once he knows your recipe, he can do whatever he wants with it.

The only part of a recipe that is protected is the publication of that recipe. If you put your recipe in a book and publish it, a person cannot copy the text of that book and use it in a new publication without permission, that would be a copyright violation. But someone can take that recipe, brew it up, bottle it, call it whatever they want, and sell it, all without any permission or notification.

 

[Phunhog]

I wonder how many breweries' beers are really just their interpretation of "famous" beers. If they want to make a Double IPA why not just brew a version of Pliny? The recipe is everywhere and it IS a great beer. The same could be said for any style of beer..find a recipe of a classic example, tweak to your taste (if needed), and sell it. Ultimately it is the brewers' skill that makes or breaks the beer.... but a strong recipe can go a long way.

 

[zeg]

If you put your recipe in a book and publish it, a person cannot copy the text of that book and use it in a new publication without permission, that would be a copyright violation.

Kinda, sorta... This is only true for a single recipe if the expression is somehow creative. If your recipe is just a list of ingredients and steps, then its text is considered factual, not creative. This would cover every beer recipe I've ever seen.

A book containing a collection of these recipes would probably be copyrightable as a work, as long as the author/editor exercised some judgement ("creativity") in selecting the recipes. However, this would only protect the work against copying large sections of the book. Individual recipes would not be protected, because the creativity was in the assemblage of the collection, not any of the individual recipes.

(This isn't meant to contradict what you're saying, just to clarify, based on my layman's understanding of the issues.)

 

[dannylerch]

Just sell him the recipe

 

[grimstuff]

Certain styles are very limited in the types of malt and hops bills, I think over the generations and all over the world you've got to have many breweries using the exact same recipe and basic process for their beer, but just calling it something different and selling it to different markets. We all share recipes and clone commercial recipes... I suspect a lot of brewers use recipes based on slight deviations, or no deviations at all, from cloned recipes. But the brewer and the water is what's always different, so even then, you have variation. It's like making a pot roast. No pot roast is going to be the same, and just because I use a recipe for pot roast that I think is special doesn't mean 10 million other people all over the world haven't stumbled onto that same recipe, but even if they have, there are still variables that cannot be replicated exactly.

 

[Fizzycist]

I can't help you on this question cuz I'm not a theoretical fizzycist.

 

[Jukas]

Photographers have this issue a lot at newspapers. You shoot a photo while using the company gear and on thr company time: who owns the photo...? Often it requires an agreed upon contract beforehand.

Actually, unless explitially noted otherwise in writing, whoever clicks that shutter owns the rights to the pictures.

The scenario Donner describes above is referred to as 'Work for Hire'. The photographers gets paid a raid, and the employer retains all copyright to the images.

P.S. Ugh, just realized I replied to a necro'd thread.

 

[morticus]

Last post on homebrewtalk by the creator of this thread; " 04-21-2011, 09:58 PM."

Doubt you're going to get a response to your inquiry.

I think that brewery must have killed him for his recipe, so they wouldn't have worry about who gets what credit.

 

[Clonefan94]

I think that brewery must have killed him for his recipe, so they wouldn't have worry about who gets what credit.

Theoretically, yes, this is what may have happened.

 

[D0ug]

I think that brewery must have killed him for his recipe, so they wouldn't have worry about who gets what credit.

See, just goes to show, as a Home Brewer you do NOT want to go pro! Once you're doing it for 40+ hours a week, you probably spend your free time doing ANYTHING else! ;D

 

[DPBISME]

My Brew club did a “collaborative” for our 20th Anniversary… We got a nice note on the bottle and those of use that assisted in the bottling got a few beers to take home (see the link below).

Hell; if it was me I would ask for a job…

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/lost-rhino-lost-hog-the-wort-hogs-20th-anniversary-ale/190959/

 

[D0ug]

My Brew club did a “collaborative” for our 20th Anniversary… We got a nice note on the bottle and those of use that assisted in the bottling got a few beers to take home (see the link below).

Hell; if it was me I would ask for a job…

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/lost-rhino-lost-hog-the-wort-hogs-20th-anniversary-ale/190959/

The OP's signature suggests he may have managed to do just that!

 

[Diaperload]

None of the local breweries that do collaborative brewing pay for the recipes, although Widmer gives people a nice jacket and when the beer is on tap, the homebrewer gets credit. It is unlikely that the final recipe for volume brewing will be exactly the same as yours anyway and that makes it the brewery's recipe.

A guy I brew with won one of those collaborator contests. His name is Josh Huerta. Widmer brewed up 60bbls of his Pineapple Express. He got the embroidered jacket and 1 keg of beer. He didn't get to take it home though. He chose a bar where they served it for 1 day. Not sure if the beer was free that night or not. He got to invite all of his friends for a party at the bar. I had to work though.

They served it up in their tap room for a while (until it ran out I assume).

Josh still can brew the beer whenever he wants. In fact, I've brewed up his recipe for myself (5 gallons) and the club I'm in has brewed up 1bbl for our members.

Widmer's version isn't as good as Josh's version (or our version). They took some liberties with the recipe.

EDIT: After the tap room ran out he asked for the tap handle and they gave it to him.

 

[samorg42]

imaguitargod: Congrats if your beer is good enough that the pros might be interested. I doubt if you could get anything more than some recognition or some beer unless you have a patentable idea. Maybe you could get a brewing job if they think you are good. There are so many beer recipes out there that a brewer could reverse engineer (as in clone) your beer and not have to pay any royalties. If you really think that you have something valuable or unique, you might need an intellectual property attorney.

 

[zippyclown]

imaguitargod: Congrats if your beer is good enough that the pros might be interested. I doubt if you could get anything more than some recognition or some beer unless you have a patentable idea. Maybe you could get a brewing job if they think you are good. There are so many beer recipes out there that a brewer could reverse engineer (as in clone) your beer and not have to pay any royalties. If you really think that you have something valuable or unique, you might need an intellectual property attorney.

Everybody on this thread is saying "You'll be lucky to get a free t-shirt".

If you read his profile and/or blog post, the dude is now brewing for Hoppin Frog brewery in OH, which I can only assume is the brewery he referred to anonymously in his original post.

Way to prove them wrong buddy!

zc

 

[JohnRoss]

Did he get the t-shirt, or not? Just wondering...theoretically...

JW

 

[NightBrewer]

Sounds like a great opportunity to have fun and learn. I would ask in return for recognition on the label and free beer when I came in the bar for a year.

 

[bleme]

See, just goes to show, as a Home Brewer you do NOT want to go pro! Once you're doing it for 40+ hours a week, you probably spend your free time doing ANYTHING else! ;D

Tell that to Mitch Steele ;-)

 

[ViperMan]

This board really needs a "This thread was started 4 years ago - are you sure you want to reply?" warning when submitting new replies...