Are you serious?
The ORIGINAL Black IPA!
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Are you serious?
Teromous said:
Anything called American is in reference to the USA and nowhere else. People from Canada, or Brazil, or any other country in North or South America don't claim to be American. I don't think that is an issue.
Teromous said:
I don't that is gonna work, take a look at this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
tennesseean_87
Well-Known Member
You guys took that one hook, line and sinker.
60% of the time it works every time.
It's got pieces of real tiger in it....
You are a smelly piratwolf hooker. Why don't you go back to your home on whore island?
Personally I got for the unbiased real name for it: VBA - Vermont Black Ale. 
Considering the Brewer's Association has named a style for it already - American Style Black Ale - the odds are high that the BJCP will use the same name eventually.
Personally I never cared until I started to realize that a region of the country was going to try to lobby to make it their own. It struck me as highly pretentious, on par with the hipsters in Brooklyn attempting to re-name neighborhoods that have existed for years. Come to think of it, many hipsters come from the PNW... hmm...
This is a good name. It's simple, descriptive and it doesn't bring in all of the misleading historical implications. Let's face it, c-hopped dark ales AREN'T PALE, and have exactly zero connection with any beer anybody did, or didn't export to India in the 1700s. I'm okay with CDA, I'm fine with ASBA - just not the nonsensical, confusing, faux-historical, misleading, category lumping, d.a. term Black IPA.
This is the real point as far as I'm concerned - IPAs don't have roasted grains. If you use food-coloring to darken it, that would be, first a waste of time and dye, but then, yes, a BIPA. If you actually use roasted malts, how in the bleep is it an IPA? It'd be more accurate to call it a hoppy brown or a hoppy porter, or something like that. I think that taste, aroma and body are primary beer characteristics - color is whatever you get when you tune those to your preference. Would 7-up be Coke if you added caramel coloring?
Kind of begs the question - how do your IBAs get B? Some dark MALT maybe? If so, it's not an IPA, by your own standard - why stretch to force the word India in there? I mean, you can call your beer whatever you want - it is your beer - but please explain why any hoppy beer has to refer to India.
Yeah, I think we can scratch NAMBLA off the list. For people who don't understand, just take my word for it - DO NOT GOOGLE THIS TERM. If you do, I promise you will regret it.
maybe because India is a hoppy place, full of hoppy people?!
no, really, CDAs are great, or ABA, whatever.... it's a great style of beer. i prefer the name Cascadian Dark (no offense, VTers, the hops are Cascadian, the styles about the hops, and the name has a nice ring to it), American Black Ale is fine too, until it starts being called ABA. i'm with Homercidal on that one.
whatever you wanna call it, it's great beer! i brew a lot of them, there's a recipe in my pulldown for those poster who were wondering about this beer.SPLASTiK
Well-Known Member
Meh, most of the common IPA story is misleading and not historically accurate either. I don't mind Black IPA, it perfectly describes what to expect to me.
Hell, there were ales referred to as "Black Pale Ale" which existed in the UK in the 19th century...
Okay folks. This is really simple. Most people call it a Black IPA because the idea is to take a standard American IPA recipe and add enough roasted grains to make it black without being extremely roasty. That's it. Take an IPA, make it black = BLACK IPA!!
I'm no lover or advocate of this style, but in my mind, they are different from American Brown Ale, American Porters, and American Stouts.
A lot of IPAs aren't really pale, anyway. A lot of them lean more toward a heavy amber these days, if not flat out red. I don't hear anyone screaming about still referring to those as India Pale Ales.
Despite what the BJCP says, the commercial market will dictate what they are commonly called. The market seems to be going with Black IPA!
I dont care what you call it but I'd like a recipe (beersmith file would be awesome) if anyone has a good one! I bought the wrong grains for an oatmeal stout and figured I'd make one of these watcha call'ems....Thanks
Prymal
Well-Known Member
2BeerSpeer said:
Search for the None More Black IPA recipe, it has an amazing malt back bone to add whatever hops you like to it. If you just look at it there is a very nice black color but held up to the light deep highlights of auburn red show through. I should mention I use briess midnight wheat instead of carafa when I made it though.
this^ is one of the better examples of this style. it's called a CDA.
Summit simply calls there's Black Ale, Stone's doesn't have a style, just Sublimely Self Righteous. Lakefront calls there's an IBA (India Black Ale), so does Dogfish, but the 'B' in there's is for brown. Boulder Beer Co. calls their's an IBA too, but it's Indian Brown Ale. Widmer's and 21st Amendment do call their's Black IPA, but i'd say the jury's still out on what commercial breweries call their's. it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA.
SPLASTiK
Well-Known Member
Not one of the better ones I've had
Hmmm Stone's Greg Koch calls it Black IPA... you can find some debate videos out there of him vs people calling it CDA. They also called their 11th and 15th anniversary beers Black IPA's.
I'm not sure you can really say that based on a list of a handful of beers, a couple that are brown ales... (not to say you're wrong though...)
In an effort to support my point, I'm going to argue on the internet!!
Spastik is correct. The Stone 15th Anniversary was an Imperial Black IPA. The 11th Anniversary was also a Black IPA and is what the Sublimely Self Righteous is now. Other's that I've seen or tasted that call themselves Black IPA:
Heavy Seas Black IPA
Uinta Dubhe
Harpoon Black IPA
Widmer Pitch Black IPA
21 Back in Black IPA
Terrapin Capt Krunkles Black IPA
Sweetwater Goulash Double Black IPA
Rogue Dad's Little Helper Black IPA
Sprecher Black IPA
Black Raven IPA
I can honestly say I've never seen a CDA. A quick search on BeerAdvocate shows there ten times more Black IPAs than CDAs.
Sardoman
Well-Known Member
Cda.
IPAs don't feature roasted grains, appropriate sentence ending punctuation.
Prymal
Well-Known Member
I happened to be walking through the Wal-Mart beer section and low and behold 3 different breweries have American Black Ales for the Spring Seasonal. Pyramid, Alaskan, and one other I have now forgotten. Anyways, I was amazed to see this and also can confirm each brewery called their beer a Black or Dark IPA so dispite the Brewers Association it does look like the Industry has adopted Black IPA. Really the only brewery I have ever seen use CDA is Hopworks and Deschuetes.
Side Note:
I am really happy, this is the first time I have purchased a commercial version of a beer I have made and liked mine better :rockin:
Side Note:
I am really happy, this is the first time I have purchased a commercial version of a beer I have made and liked mine better :rockin:
Not one of the better ones I've had
hmmmm, i happen to think its a great beer.
obviously it's a black ipa/cda/aba/wtf, it was more a point that not all examples are called black ipa. but thanks for the heads up.
so being lazy and not having a bigger list invalidates the point?
and really, things like Yakima Glory/Twilight, DFH IBA and all those are regularly brought up in the india style dark ale discussion.... i think i can say what what i want about the style, right or wrong, i'm quite familiar with it and understand the guidelines pretty well.
:roll eyes:
yeah, i guess it's not one of the better known names.
SPLASTiK
Well-Known Member
More or less... using a list of a handful of beers arbitrarily listed to make the point that "it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA" isn't really all that persuasive because it's not based off anything substantial. I can just as easily throw out a bunch of names and the list can have more Black IPA's than not and say the same exact thing.
I never said anything about Yakima Glory... but it's natural for the latter to be brought up in the discussion, sure, as the style overlaps and is similar to others... but DFH IBA is still categorized as a brown ale.
That's nice.
chuckstout
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When i think of black ipa, i think just that IPA thats black, when I open a bottle with a CDA label I think porter hopped like an American IPA
gtlaw10
Well-Known Member
props to noonan and vt brewpub. i love and miss home.
Glossolalia
Well-Known Member
A handful of brewers are now doing these here in Japan. Nearly everyone is calling them Black IPAs. I think one brewer simply called his a "black ale." I'm not sure "American" or "Cascadian" belong in the name. If so, what we call the several international (read: non-American brewed) examples of the style where NZ hops and European malts are being used. What does one call Grassroots/Stillwater/Mikkeller's Gypsy Juice which certainly leans in the Black IPA direction but uses a saison yeast and tosses in some Brett B for good measure?
not being able to convince you saddens me. i'd try again, but i'm sure i'd leave something out, giving you more to nitpick. :cross:
you didn't, but i did. and it's regularly brought up in the whole discussion as one of these beers. the brewers at Victory consider it a dark IPA. sorry i'm still too groggy this morning to link the web video with them for you as proof of that. i'll just have to live with that.
thanks, i thought so. i'm probably wrong though, it's obviously a style i know very little about.
right, and a Munich Dunkel or Scottish Ale should be called something else because brewers in the US make them all the time.
OP
OP
This is a good example of why there's so much "controversy" over this beer. Typically, beers that fall out of a style are pretty much "one-offs" and not only does the brewer not care about a style, but the consumers don't either. With the black IPA, it has been around for a while now, is gaining in popularity with professional brewers, home brewers and the craft market, so therefore, people are clamoring for it to get its own style definition.
Mikeller is not looking to create styles when he brews one of his beers. Same thing with places like New Belgium and Dogfish Head.
SPLASTiK
Well-Known Member
It's not even about being nitpicky though. If you're going to make a blanket statement like that, you need facts, not conjecture, for it to hold any weight.
But you hadn't previously, nor had I said anything about it, so it came off as a strawman as you're making it sound like I wouldn't agree with it being brought up in a discussion of Black IPA/CDA/ISDA/etc. or something. I never said they didn't or shouldn't come up in discussion, or that people don't label their beers something other than Black IPA when they fit the general guidelines of the so called style (such as Victory), so I'm really struggling to see your point.
Obviously.
SGFBeerBuzz
Well-Known Member
I call them delicious. seriously, though, American Black Ale makes sense. I tend to call mine a hopped-up porter. Overall, it doesn't matter as long as you know what to expect from the beer in the bottle.
I'm not a fan of shoehorning beers into styles, anyway, styles have 2 purposes in my mind:
1. To make marketing easier. Brewers have to have an easy way to communicate what is in the bottle, and styles help to do that.
2. To make judging easier. Shoehorning beers into styles and forcing them to fit guidelines makes judging seem less subjective. The jury is still out on whether it actually does that, but it makes it SEEM less subjective.
Ok. My two cents.
I'm not a fan of shoehorning beers into styles, anyway, styles have 2 purposes in my mind:
1. To make marketing easier. Brewers have to have an easy way to communicate what is in the bottle, and styles help to do that.
2. To make judging easier. Shoehorning beers into styles and forcing them to fit guidelines makes judging seem less subjective. The jury is still out on whether it actually does that, but it makes it SEEM less subjective.
Ok. My two cents.
OP
OP
