The ORIGINAL Black IPA!

[Howie]

This is the real point as far as I'm concerned - IPAs don't have roasted grains. If you use food-coloring to darken it, that would be, first a waste of time and dye, but then, yes, a BIPA. If you actually use roasted malts, how in the bleep is it an IPA? It'd be more accurate to call it a hoppy brown or a hoppy porter, or something like that. I think that taste, aroma and body are primary beer characteristics - color is whatever you get when you tune those to your preference. Would 7-up be Coke if you added caramel coloring?

Okay folks. This is really simple. Most people call it a Black IPA because the idea is to take a standard American IPA recipe and add enough roasted grains to make it black without being extremely roasty. That's it. Take an IPA, make it black = BLACK IPA!!

I'm no lover or advocate of this style, but in my mind, they are different from American Brown Ale, American Porters, and American Stouts.

A lot of IPAs aren't really pale, anyway. A lot of them lean more toward a heavy amber these days, if not flat out red. I don't hear anyone screaming about still referring to those as India Pale Ales.

Despite what the BJCP says, the commercial market will dictate what they are commonly called. The market seems to be going with Black IPA!

 

[2BeerSpeer]

I dont care what you call it but I'd like a recipe (beersmith file would be awesome) if anyone has a good one! I bought the wrong grains for an oatmeal stout and figured I'd make one of these watcha call'ems....Thanks

 

[Prymal]

I dont care what you call it but I'd like a recipe (beersmith file would be awesome) if anyone has a good one! I bought the wrong grains for an oatmeal stout and figured I'd make one of these watcha call'ems....Thanks

Search for the None More Black IPA recipe, it has an amazing malt back bone to add whatever hops you like to it. If you just look at it there is a very nice black color but held up to the light deep highlights of auburn red show through. I should mention I use briess midnight wheat instead of carafa when I made it though.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

despite what the bjcp says, the commercial market will dictate what they are commonly called. The market seems to be going with black ipa!

this^ is one of the better examples of this style. it's called a CDA.

Summit simply calls there's Black Ale, Stone's doesn't have a style, just Sublimely Self Righteous. Lakefront calls there's an IBA (India Black Ale), so does Dogfish, but the 'B' in there's is for brown. Boulder Beer Co. calls their's an IBA too, but it's Indian Brown Ale. Widmer's and 21st Amendment do call their's Black IPA, but i'd say the jury's still out on what commercial breweries call their's. it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA.

 

[SPLASTiK]

View attachment 47311
this^ is one of the better examples of this style. it's called a CDA.

Not one of the better ones I've had

Stone's doesn't have a style, just Sublimely Self Righteous.

Hmmm Stone's Greg Koch calls it Black IPA... you can find some debate videos out there of him vs people calling it CDA. They also called their 11th and 15th anniversary beers Black IPA's.

it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA.

I'm not sure you can really say that based on a list of a handful of beers, a couple that are brown ales... (not to say you're wrong though...)

 

[Howie]

Hmmm Stone's Greg Koch calls it Black IPA... you can find some debate videos out there of him vs people calling it CDA. They also called their 11th and 15th anniversary beers Black IPA's.


I'm not sure you can really say that based on a handful of beers, a couple that are brown ales...

In an effort to support my point, I'm going to argue on the internet!!


Spastik is correct. The Stone 15th Anniversary was an Imperial Black IPA. The 11th Anniversary was also a Black IPA and is what the Sublimely Self Righteous is now. Other's that I've seen or tasted that call themselves Black IPA:

Heavy Seas Black IPA
Uinta Dubhe
Harpoon Black IPA
Widmer Pitch Black IPA
21 Back in Black IPA
Terrapin Capt Krunkles Black IPA
Sweetwater Goulash Double Black IPA
Rogue Dad's Little Helper Black IPA
Sprecher Black IPA
Black Raven IPA


I can honestly say I've never seen a CDA. A quick search on BeerAdvocate shows there ten times more Black IPAs than CDAs.

 

[Sardoman]

Cda.

 

[BrewMU]

Okay folks. This is really simple. Most people call it a Black IPA because the idea is to take a standard American IPA recipe and add enough roasted grains to make it black without being extremely roasty. That's it. Take an IPA, make it black = BLACK IPA!!

I'm no lover or advocate of this style, but in my mind, they are different from American Brown Ale, American Porters, and American Stouts.

A lot of IPAs aren't really pale, anyway. A lot of them lean more toward a heavy amber these days, if not flat out red. I don't hear anyone screaming about still referring to those as India Pale Ales.

Despite what the BJCP says, the commercial market will dictate what they are commonly called. The market seems to be going with Black IPA!

IPAs don't feature roasted grains, appropriate sentence ending punctuation.

 

[Prymal]

I happened to be walking through the Wal-Mart beer section and low and behold 3 different breweries have American Black Ales for the Spring Seasonal. Pyramid, Alaskan, and one other I have now forgotten. Anyways, I was amazed to see this and also can confirm each brewery called their beer a Black or Dark IPA so dispite the Brewers Association it does look like the Industry has adopted Black IPA. Really the only brewery I have ever seen use CDA is Hopworks and Deschuetes.

Side Note:
I am really happy, this is the first time I have purchased a commercial version of a beer I have made and liked mine better :rockin:

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Not one of the better ones I've had

hmmmm, i happen to think its a great beer.

Hmmm Stone's Greg Koch calls it Black IPA... you can find some debate videos out there of him vs people calling it CDA. They also called their 11th and 15th anniversary beers Black IPA's.

obviously it's a black ipa/cda/aba/wtf, it was more a point that not all examples are called black ipa. but thanks for the heads up.

I'm not sure you can really say that based on a list of a handful of beers, a couple that are brown ales... (not to say you're wrong though...)

so being lazy and not having a bigger list invalidates the point?
and really, things like Yakima Glory/Twilight, DFH IBA and all those are regularly brought up in the india style dark ale discussion.... i think i can say what what i want about the style, right or wrong, i'm quite familiar with it and understand the guidelines pretty well.

In an effort to support my point, I'm going to argue on the internet!! :roll eyes:

:roll eyes:

I can honestly say I've never seen a CDA.

yeah, i guess it's not one of the better known names.

View attachment 47311
this^ is one of the better examples of this style. it's called a CDA.

 

[SPLASTiK]

so being lazy and not having a bigger list invalidates the point?

More or less... using a list of a handful of beers arbitrarily listed to make the point that "it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA" isn't really all that persuasive because it's not based off anything substantial. I can just as easily throw out a bunch of names and the list can have more Black IPA's than not and say the same exact thing.

and really, things like Yakima Glory/Twilight, DFH IBA and all those are regularly brought up in the india style dark ale discussion....

I never said anything about Yakima Glory... but it's natural for the latter to be brought up in the discussion, sure, as the style overlaps and is similar to others... but DFH IBA is still categorized as a brown ale.

i think i can say what what i want about the style, right or wrong, i'm quite familiar with it and understand the guidelines pretty well.

That's nice.

 

[chuckstout]

When i think of black ipa, i think just that IPA thats black, when I open a bottle with a CDA label I think porter hopped like an American IPA

 

[mccumath]

Who gives a fat rat's ass??? Its beer, its black, and it is pretty hoppy. I think Hoppy Black Beer works well... We get waaaayyyy to caught up in names and labels!

 

[gtlaw10]

props to noonan and vt brewpub. i love and miss home.

 

[Glossolalia]

it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA.

A handful of brewers are now doing these here in Japan. Nearly everyone is calling them Black IPAs. I think one brewer simply called his a "black ale." I'm not sure "American" or "Cascadian" belong in the name. If so, what we call the several international (read: non-American brewed) examples of the style where NZ hops and European malts are being used. What does one call Grassroots/Stillwater/Mikkeller's Gypsy Juice which certainly leans in the Black IPA direction but uses a saison yeast and tosses in some Brett B for good measure?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

More or less... using a list of a handful of beers arbitrarily listed to make the point that "it seems more commercial breweries are not using the term Black IPA" isn't really all that persuasive because it's not based off anything substantial. I can just as easily throw out a bunch of names and the list can have more Black IPA's than not and say the same exact thing.

not being able to convince you saddens me. i'd try again, but i'm sure i'd leave something out, giving you more to nitpick. :cross:

I never said anything about Yakima Glory....

you didn't, but i did. and it's regularly brought up in the whole discussion as one of these beers. the brewers at Victory consider it a dark IPA. sorry i'm still too groggy this morning to link the web video with them for you as proof of that. i'll just have to live with that.

That's nice.

thanks, i thought so. i'm probably wrong though, it's obviously a style i know very little about.

I'm not sure "American" or "Cascadian" belong in the name.

right, and a Munich Dunkel or Scottish Ale should be called something else because brewers in the US make them all the time.

 

[Airborneguy]

What does one call Grassroots/Stillwater/Mikkeller's Gypsy Juice which certainly leans in the Black IPA direction but uses a saison yeast and tosses in some Brett B for good measure?

This is a good example of why there's so much "controversy" over this beer. Typically, beers that fall out of a style are pretty much "one-offs" and not only does the brewer not care about a style, but the consumers don't either. With the black IPA, it has been around for a while now, is gaining in popularity with professional brewers, home brewers and the craft market, so therefore, people are clamoring for it to get its own style definition.

Mikeller is not looking to create styles when he brews one of his beers. Same thing with places like New Belgium and Dogfish Head.

 

[SPLASTiK]

not being able to convince you saddens me. i'd try again, but i'm sure i'd leave something out, giving you more to nitpick. :cross:

It's not even about being nitpicky though. If you're going to make a blanket statement like that, you need facts, not conjecture, for it to hold any weight.

you didn't, but i did. and it's regularly brought up in the whole discussion as one of these beers. the brewers at Victory consider it a dark IPA. sorry i'm still too groggy this morning to link the web video with them for you as proof of that. i'll just have to live with that.

But you hadn't previously, nor had I said anything about it, so it came off as a strawman as you're making it sound like I wouldn't agree with it being brought up in a discussion of Black IPA/CDA/ISDA/etc. or something. I never said they didn't or shouldn't come up in discussion, or that people don't label their beers something other than Black IPA when they fit the general guidelines of the so called style (such as Victory), so I'm really struggling to see your point.

thanks, i thought so. i'm probably wrong though, it's obviously a style i know very little about.

Obviously.

 

[SGFBeerBuzz]

I call them delicious. seriously, though, American Black Ale makes sense. I tend to call mine a hopped-up porter. Overall, it doesn't matter as long as you know what to expect from the beer in the bottle.

I'm not a fan of shoehorning beers into styles, anyway, styles have 2 purposes in my mind:

1. To make marketing easier. Brewers have to have an easy way to communicate what is in the bottle, and styles help to do that.

2. To make judging easier. Shoehorning beers into styles and forcing them to fit guidelines makes judging seem less subjective. The jury is still out on whether it actually does that, but it makes it SEEM less subjective.

Ok. My two cents.

 

[Airborneguy]

2. To make judging easier. Shoehorning beers into styles and forcing them to fit guidelines makes judging seem less subjective. The jury is still out on whether it actually does that, but it makes it SEEM less subjective.

Ok. My two cents.

I agree with the second of your two cents with all my heart and soul

 

[barrooze]

Aaaaaand unsubscribed.

 

[mikeho]

For those who wanted a recipe, there is a thread for Stone's Sublimely Self Righteous
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/stone-xi-anniversary-clone-51521/

Stone 11th Anniversary Ale Recipe
Grain Bill:
90% pale malt
5% 60°L Crystal
5% Weyermann Carafa III Special

OG target is 20.5°P (1.082 SG) Terminal Gravity target is 4°P (1.016 SG)

Hops:
Bittering at start of boil: 100% Chinook
Flavor hops added at end of boil or whirlpool: 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo
Target 120 IBU’s.
Ferment with good ale yeast.
Dry-Hop with 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo.

For a 5 gallon batch I used:

13 lbs 8 oz pale malt
12 oz 60°L Crystal
12 oz Weyermann Carafa III Special
60 min 3 oz Chinook
0 min 2 oz Simcoe
0 min 2 oz Amarillo
dry hop 2 oz Simcoe
dry hop 2 oz Amarillo
Safale US-05

 

[2BeerSpeer]

there was a link I saw somewhere that had the recipe's for all the stone beers....7-7-7,8-8-8,etc but I can't find it now. Help please...I know it was a link to Stones website butI can't seem to find the recipe's on there page

 

[gtlaw10]

this has turned into a landmine!!!
word of warning:

hope that's not too out of line.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

It's not even about being nitpicky though. If you're going to make a blanket statement like that, you need facts, not conjecture, for it to hold any weight.

right, not about nitpicking at all.

But you hadn't previously, nor had I said anything about it, so it came off as a strawman as you're making it sound like I wouldn't agree with it being brought up in a discussion of Black IPA/CDA/ISDA/etc. or something. I never said they didn't or shouldn't come up in discussion, or that people don't label their beers something other than Black IPA when they fit the general guidelines of the so called style (such as Victory), so I'm really struggling to see your point.

as i am yours.

Obviously.

oh, ouch. i've been insulted by an internet troll.


sorry for feeding the troll here, but you're a tool. not about nitpicking? you argue with the same logic as my wife, which is something i'd define as such. sorry if my list wasn't long or detailed enough for your liking, but i think my point is still the same, sorry my point wasn't in direct agreement with your's, and sorry my knowledge of beer doesn't live up to your standards. really tho, i think i know what i'm talking about here, and not saying you don't but it sure sounds like you're arguing for the pure sake of argument and have no real point to make.
like some other posters, i'm now unsub'ed to the thread, i'm gonna go enjoy some beer, including my CDA, which is obviously a sub par example when stood up to the ones brewed by the all knowing SPLASTIK..... now if only the judges who've tasted it were so enlightened, maybe then we could all agree with this guy. :fro:

 

[Howie]

oh, ouch. i've been insulted by an internet troll.

I don't think he was the one being the troll.

 

[pm5k00]

i don't think he was the one being the troll.

+1

 

[SPLASTiK]

I'm the tool? Haha. You're the one belittling your wife and attempting to patronize me over a simple premise... Stay classy.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I don't think he was the one being the troll.

and that's coming from a member with 58 posts in two years, undoubtedly many of them in the vein of ^this^ one. sort of seems like the pot calling the kettle black, doesn't it?

+1

right, that's how i do, total troll. i never contribute anything to the forums other than snide comments and '+1' regurgitation of other peoples posts. in fact, the PMs i get on a daily basis asking for advice or input are mainly asking me how i so effectively troll HBT and for ideas on how they can one day master the art of trolling.

I'm the tool? Haha. You're the one belittling your wife and attempting to patronize me over a simple premise... Stay classy.

actually, i was belittling you. my wife has every right to act like a moody little girl sometimes, you on the other hand.....
and yeah, i think you're the tool, the above ^comment^ not only shows that you don't understand analogy, but the definition of the word 'patronize' as well.

see, i too can nitpick and invalidate a point by saying it's not written to my standards.

 

[SPLASTiK]

Haha, a post count measuring contest now? We might as well start whipping out the rulers.

actually, i was belittling you.

By insulting your wife through comparison to me... Classy.

and yeah, i think you're the tool, the above ^comment^ not only shows that you don't understand analogy,

Oh, I understand it quite well.

but the definition of the word 'patronize' as well.

Yeah, that one was probably the wrong word choice, but I still haven't even read the paragraph past the wife sentence, so I was kind of winging it and guessing what the rest was about... Didn't seem a good use of my valuable time since it was straying from the topic at hand, paragraph be too wordy

see, i too can nitpick and invalidate a point by saying it's not written to my standards.

That's nice? You might want to leave out the too part though.