American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[Ulisses4677]

And in equal argument, you could say that a modern west coast ipa is a traditional ipa without character malt lol

You’re right. New west coast has migrated to colder fermentation as well.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’ll keep it modern and hip, unlike old guy @Dgallo! Haha jk dude but someone gotta keep you accountable for all that malt character.

90% weyerman pils, 10% flaked wheat. 1.061 -> 1.010 bry-97

40 IBUS Columbus, WP eclipse, mosaic.
split for DH.
#1 eclipse spectrum, Nelson t90, nectaron terps. Sweet tropical fruit, green taffy, cantaloupe.
#2 mosaic spectrum, mosaic t90, mosaic terps. Overripe, dank, almost has a salty BO thing. I actually like this one a little more.

these beers dropped crystal clear after 3 weeks and then the terps add back some haze, I’m just adding a drop at serving. The hop presence is intense, super potent, the hop burps are next level. I’ll use terps more in the future.

 

[Fergal]

I've got some terps burning a hole in my pocket! Definitely planning a west coast with some.

 

[Bassman2003]

Terps and burps! I have yet to try these but looks like another tool for success.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ll keep it modern and hip, unlike old guy @Dgallo! Haha jk dude but someone gotta keep you accountable for all that malt character.

90% weyerman pils, 10% flaked wheat. 1.061 -> 1.010 bry-97



View attachment 867726View attachment 867727View attachment 867728

then you go put 10% flaked wheat in a wc ipa, a high protein character malt…lol

Not that I’m old (only 35) but I’ve been brewing now for 10 years and I do honestly think most new brewers have no idea what Munich, Vienna, biscuit, victory, ETC taste like and how to use them. They are in this new narrative that these malts are only for dark or amber beers and negative for pale ales.

I’m pretty certain that most trying this beer won’t mention anything about the malt but they will think the beers is well rounded and very hoppy. The Vienna should fill any missing flavor gaps in the middle of the sip

 

[Dgallo]

Just dryhoped my latest. Went with a 1:1:1 ratio of Columbus, Freestyle Motueka, & Nectaron. Beer recap below;

Grain bill:
75% - 2row
15% - Vienna
6% - Carahell
4% - dextrose
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
Abv: 8.6%
IBU: 83

Boil hops:
Columbus

Whirlpool:
1:1 Columbus / Freestyle Motueka

first pour of this beer. Really excited about this combo, it works really well with dank cannabis, bright lime, peachie citrus, and some diesel. For anyone that doubts biofine, second picture is of the beer in the fv this past Monday 1/27

 

[fluketamer]

View attachment 867740I've got some terps burning a hole in my pocket! Definitely planning a west coast with some.

i havent had good luck with my terpenes. they all taste and smell like pine more than anything else to me. i have had much better luck with traditional dry hopping. i thought i read somewhere that you can freeze them but dont do that they seperate. and wont reemulsify.

 

[Dgallo]

i havent had good luck with my terpenes. they all taste and smell like pine more than anything else to me. i have had much better luck with traditional dry hopping. i thought i read somewhere that you can freeze them but dont do that they seperate. and wont reemulsify.

You’ve had better luck with traditional dryhoping to get a beer to taste like cannabis verses using cannabis terpenoid?

What hop combos are you using to achieve these. I target danky/cannabis IPAs a lot with hops and can never get it to taste like it without terpenes

 

[TwitchellBrew]

first pour of this beer. Really excited about this combo, it works really well with dank cannabis, bright lime, peachie citrus, and some diesel. For anyone that doubts biofine, second picture is of the beer in the fv this past Monday 1/27View attachment 868038View attachment 868039

I’d imagine this combo would be killer. I love Nelson in a west coast style and I find Motueka presents well in literally anything I’ve tried it in. I’ve used it in saison, NZ Pilsner, cream ale, pales, west coast, hazy…. It’s works great at low hop levels and high levels. And it can be a single hop or plays well with others. (Can you tell I’m a Motueka fan boy?)

 

[Shenanigans]

I’d imagine this combo would be killer. I love Nelson in a west coast style and I find Motueka presents well in literally anything I’ve tried it in. I’ve used it in saison, NZ Pilsner, cream ale, pales, west coast, hazy…. It’s works great at low hop levels and high levels. And it can be a single hop or plays well with others. (Can you tell I’m a Motueka fan boy?)

good stuff I have 500g of Motuka inthe freezer

 

[elproducto]

Hey all. I'm about to do a big hop buy for the year. Any hot new hops I should check out for WCIPA?

I am grabbing some Strata and Nelson. One point, I don't love too much diesel, a little bit is ok but would prefer something more fruit/citrus forward.

 

[Dgallo]

Hey all. I'm about to do a big hop buy for the year. Any hot new hops I should check out for WCIPA?

I am grabbing some Strata and Nelson. One point, I don't love too much diesel, a little bit is ok but would prefer something more fruit/citrus forward.

I really liked Motueka. But I would look at some of the new American hops coming out like Elani, Anchovy, 1019, & Zumo. I’d also suggest if you haven’t tried Michigan grown American hops to check them out because they have cool local character from their counter parts grown in the PNW

 

[Fergal]

Hey all. I'm about to do a big hop buy for the year. Any hot new hops I should check out for WCIPA?

I am grabbing some Strata and Nelson. One point, I don't love too much diesel, a little bit is ok but would prefer something more fruit/citrus forward.

I really like superdelic. I haven't got any diesel from it but pretty intense citrus and a really nice depth of flavour if that makes sense. I take no responsibility for you not getting diesel though!

 

[mrcastellino]

Ill add a vote for HBC 586 / Krush. It is fairly potent without being off putting and plays well with others. More importantly the market doesn’t seem to be flooded with bad lots (knock on wood). As a home-brewer Ive had relatively good luck with rolling the dice. Krush and Nelson has been a popular west coast hop combo as of late. Hopefully you get some great nelson that isnt too diesel. I personally have not had great luck there.

 

[Dgallo]

this keg is about kicked but might be my favorite west coast that I’ve made so far. Recap below;

Grain bill:
75% - 2row
15% - Vienna
6% - Carahell
4% - dextrose
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
Abv: 8.4%
IBU: 83

Hopped with Columbus, Motueka, Nectaron

 

[Broothru]

this keg is about kicked but might be my favorite west coast that I’ve made so far. Recap below;

Grain bill:
75% - 2row
15% - Vienna
6% - Carahell
4% - dextrose
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
Abv: 8.4%
IBU: 83

Hopped with Columbus, Motueka, Nectaron View attachment 869847View attachment 869855

Oh, I am so gonna' brew this!

 

[Ulisses4677]

this keg is about kicked but might be my favorite west coast that I’ve made so far. Recap below;

Grain bill:
75% - 2row
15% - Vienna
6% - Carahell
4% - dextrose
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
Abv: 8.4%
IBU: 83

Hopped with Columbus, Motueka, Nectaron View attachment 869847View attachment 869855

Looks great

 

[Rich_O]

this keg is about kicked but might be my favorite west coast that I’ve made so far. Recap below;

Grain bill:
75% - 2row
15% - Vienna
6% - Carahell
4% - dextrose
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
Abv: 8.4%
IBU: 83

Hopped with Columbus, Motueka, Nectaron View attachment 869847View attachment 869855

This looks great! Please could you share your qty / ratio of hopping for WP & DH?

 

[Dgallo]

This looks great! Please could you share your qty / ratio of hopping for WP & DH?

Boil hops:
Columbus at 60, 20, 5 (60 of the 83 ibus)

Rate is based off true volume of wort/beer at the time the hops were added.

Whirlpool: 1:1 at 1oz/gal at 165*f
Columbus / Freestyle Motueka

DH: Roughly 1:1:1 at 2.25oz/gal @ 54*f
Columbus/Nectaron/Freestyle Motueka

 

[Dgallo]

Looks great

Thanks brother.

Oh, I am so gonna' brew this!

You’ll def enjoy it. I’ll probably run this recipe a bunch and just switch out the hops moving forward. Next time I’m going to remove the dextrose to see if it’s needed or not

 

[tracer bullet]

165*f

Thanks for the recipe! It'll go on my short list of "what to brew next". Will be interesting to do Columbus again, see if I like it better if I utilize it better.

Curious on 165, I'm guessing that's your go-to whirlpool temp? Get the flavor, minimal IBU's. Is that where your other 23 come from?

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for the recipe! It'll go on my short list of "what to brew next". Will be interesting to do Columbus again, see if I like it better if I utilize it better.

Curious on 165, I'm guessing that's your go-to whirlpool temp? Get the flavor, minimal IBU's. Is that where your other 23 come from?

That’s it. Smoother/lower ibus while retaining more of the aromatics/flavor. And correct, that’s where the other 23 ibus come from

 

[Broothru]

Thanks brother.


You’ll def enjoy it. I’ll probably run this recipe a bunch and just switch out the hops moving forward. Next time I’m going to remove the dextrose to see if it’s needed or not

I was playing around with a recipe in BeerSmith using your ingredients list and benchmarks. The hops additions and timing were the biggest hurdles to reach the IBUs benchmark and still capture what I assumed to be the flavor profile.

I’ve gotten pretty much away from dry hopping and loaded most up in whirlpool/steep instead. That way I can eliminate much of the trub and vegetal carryover by settling prior to transferring into the fermenter. With pressure fermentation I tend to not loose much flavor/aroma through venting, keeping it inside the fermenter.

I used an initial small charge of CTZ at first wort, medium add of Nectaron at ;20 mins, huge dose of Nectaron and Motueka in the whirlpool for :20 mind @ 170F. Also did a 50/50 mix of Pilsner/2-row instead of only 2-row pale ale malt.

Hit all your OG/FG, ABV, IBUs benchmarks to fit my equipment profile. Looking forward to trying my hand at brewing it. BTW, what yeast did you use?

 

[Broothru]

I was playing around with a recipe in BeerSmith using your ingredients list and benchmarks. The hops additions and timing were the biggest hurdles to reach the IBUs benchmark and still capture what I assumed to be the flavor profile.

I’ve gotten pretty much away from dry hopping and loaded most up in whirlpool/steep instead. That way I can eliminate much of the trub and vegetal carryover by settling prior to transferring into the fermenter. With pressure fermentation I tend to not loose much flavor/aroma through venting, keeping it inside the fermenter.

I used an initial small charge of CTZ at first wort, medium add of Nectaron at ;20 mins, huge dose of Nectaron and Motueka in the whirlpool for :20 mind @ 170F. Also did a 50/50 mix of Pilsner/2-row instead of only 2-row pale ale malt.

Hit all your OG/FG, ABV, IBUs benchmarks to fit my equipment profile. Looking forward to trying my hand at brewing it. BTW, what yeast did you use?

Forgot to add: subbed maltodextrin in place of dextrose to hit the gravity numbers but still get the benefit of body and head retention. I’m a little concerned about the CaraHell, but I have 12 oz. sitting around that I’d otherwise probably never use, so in it goes! With an attenuating yeast it should probably dry out and avoid any ‘cloying’ sweetness.

 

[Dgallo]

I was playing around with a recipe in BeerSmith using your ingredients list and benchmarks. The hops additions and timing were the biggest hurdles to reach the IBUs benchmark and still capture what I assumed to be the flavor profile.

I’ve gotten pretty much away from dry hopping and loaded most up in whirlpool/steep instead. That way I can eliminate much of the trub and vegetal carryover by settling prior to transferring into the fermenter. With pressure fermentation I tend to not loose much flavor/aroma through venting, keeping it inside the fermenter.

I used an initial small charge of CTZ at first wort, medium add of Nectaron at ;20 mins, huge dose of Nectaron and Motueka in the whirlpool for :20 mind @ 170F. Also did a 50/50 mix of Pilsner/2-row instead of only 2-row pale ale malt.

Hit all your OG/FG, ABV, IBUs

Hmm. I don’t run through beersmith but, I’ve always felt percentages were easier to recreate recipes on your system. Anyway, here were my exact numbers.

Also, dextrose is fermentable, maltodextrin is not. So you will end up with a beer quite a bit higher in FG than mine.

 

[Broothru]

Yeah, I started with your percentages and ingredients and worked backwards from there to reverse-engineer the recipe and hit all the benchmark numbers. Came up with the following:

Rahr North Star Pils 75%
CaraHell 8.3%
Vienna 12.5%
Maltodextrin 4.2%

Dextrose was giving me a projected ABV of 9.6%, which is still in the range of Double IPA, but is a lot higher than I like to go. Subbing it with Maltodextrin (96% non-fermentable) tamed it down to 8.3%, which for me is still pretty high but comfortably in the range for BJCP style.

OG. 1.076
FG. 1.014
ABV 8.3%
SRM 6.1
IBUs 80.8

Hopping was CTZ 1.00 oz @ FWH, Nectarine and Motueka 1 oz. each @ :20 and :05 respectively, and WP 1 oz each Nectarine and Motueka @ 70C for :20 minutes. Total IBUs (est.) is 80.8 based on age adjusted AA% on each hop package. I'm planning to ferment with NovaLager that has min/max attenuation between 76-80%, wide temperature range 56F-68F, high alcohol tolerance, high flocculation and drops like a brick. Although Fermentis doesn't advertise it as a pressure fermenter, I've used it at 1 BAR a couple of times and it worked wonderfully, but I haven't decided yet whether to wait until raising for D-rest before capping with a spunding valve. Maybe cap it early to keep all the aromas inside or treat it like a lager yeast unpressurized, warm-fermenting at a mid-point 62F like Timbo and some of the other Cold IPA brewers do.

Can't wait to brew it, just as soon as the Doc clears me to lift weights > 10 lbs. Six weeks of this post-op rehab has been driving me nuts (not to mention SWMBO'd, bless her patience). Plus all this screen time has me ordering all kinds of 'stuff' online. I call it "necessarily brewing items." SWMBO'd has an entirely different term of art to describe my purchases, but if I repeat it the mods will likely censor me.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

The recent Craft Beer and Brewing Podcast has a number of tips. Most of these guys are using a 100% Pilsner base (a few said they used 5% to 10% wheat with the Pilsner). There was no mention of any other character malts. Chico yeast was preferred in this crowd but 34/70 was mentioned as being used also...also the use of using ADLC or the Omega DKO version.

I recently kegged a 8.3% Double IPA that was 90% 2-Row and 10% Liquid Invert Sugar. Pitched on a cake of US-05. Centennial, Amarillo, and Citra at flameout and dry hop additions, with some Warrior, Chinook and Simcoe in the boil. Based on young and flat samples, it has potential.

Podcast link:
https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-...undtable-with-cannonball-creek-westbound-dow/

 

[Dgallo]

The recent Craft Beer and Brewing Podcast has a number of tips. Most of these guys are using a 100% Pilsner base (a few said they used 5% to 10% wheat with the Pilsner). There was no mention of any other character malts. Chico yeast was preferred in this crowd but 34/70 was mentioned as being used also...also the use of using ADLC or the Omega DKO version.

I recently kegged a 8.3% Double IPA that was 90% 2-Row and 10% Liquid Invert Sugar. Pitched on a cake of US-05. Centennial, Amarillo, and Citra at flameout and dry hop additions, with some Warrior, Chinook and Simcoe in the boil. Based on young and flat samples, it has potential.

Podcast link:
https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-...undtable-with-cannonball-creek-westbound-dow/

You’re definitely correct that the straight up modern ipa is practically 100% Pilsner. I’d def argue that North Park should be credited with that and the resurgence of a more drinkable and aggressive (though stil reserved) ipa.

I will say what I’m seeing now is that a lot of breweries are adding back some character malts keeping the srms (< 6.5-7 SRM) but keeping the IBUS .75/1.0 and the hopping rates as the original modern ipa. I think this small change is really going take off in the market, which is quite stale if you talk to anyone in the distro (my BIL is a beverage sales rep for beer and thc/herbal seltzers ). The reason I think you’ll start seeing more 10-20% Munich/Vienna/etc ipas because it’s going to bring back the nostalgia of the larger of the two American craft beer movements (late 90s - real early 2010s) and aligned with modern hopping techniques and juicy character all while being a drinkable beer

 

[jordanfrenzy]

You’re definitely correct that the straight up modern ipa is practically 100% Pilsner. I’d def argue that North Park should be credited with that and the resurgence of a more drinkable and aggressive (though stil reserved) ipa.

I will say what I’m seeing now is that a lot of breweries are adding back some character malts keeping the srms (< 6.5-7 SRM) but keeping the IBUS .75/1.0 and the hopping rates as the original modern ipa. I think this small change is really going take off in the market, which is quite stale if you talk to anyone in the distro (my BIL is a beverage sales rep for beer and thc/herbal seltzers ). The reason I think you’ll start seeing more 10-20% Munich/Vienna/etc ipas because it’s going to bring back the nostalgia of the larger of the two American craft beer movements (late 90s - real early 2010s) and aligned with modern hopping techniques and juicy character all why being a drinkable beer

This is what I love to do with this style. It's a blank canvas to really help you understand specialty malts. 3-5% of anything 20-40L or 10% Munich like you said makes amazing beer while avoiding the cloying, brown 1LB of Crystal 60 style IPA recipes that circulated in the early 2000s.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I will say what I’m seeing now is that a lot of breweries are adding back some character malts keeping the srms (< 6.5-7 SRM) but keeping the IBUS .75/1.0 and the hopping rates as the original modern ipa.

Yeah, we tend to chase extremes...most IBUs, highest hop hazy & saturation, and now the extreme seems to be the least amount of malt character possible. My favorite IPA recipe has 4% Crystal 15/20, and 10% Wheat with a 2-Row base (under 6 SRM). In that 6.5% range, I think a little character malts add some needed malt complexity. When I want a crushable beer, I am looking for something less than 7.5% ABV. I find that a 5% to 5.5% West Coast Pils fits that slot for me.

I have played around with swapping in 15L Munich from Avangard in place of Crystal in some batches. I found that particular Munich came across as a bit too harsh. I need to play around more with lighter colored Munich and/or using more Vienna malt.

 

[elproducto]

I loved that cast... seriously the best brewing podcast.

Decocting WCIPA, crazy! Not surprising though for a brewery out of Bierstadt.

I've also been leaning toward starting to add a little more character malt as @Dgallo mentioned. I do miss the classic WCIPA a bit, things like Green Flash WCIPA that had a bit of malt to counteract that bitterness.

 

[elproducto]

Boil hops:
Columbus at 60, 20, 5 (60 of the 83 ibus)

Rate is based off true volume of wort/beer at the time the hops were added.

Whirlpool: 1:1 at 1oz/gal at 165*f
Columbus / Freestyle Motueka

DH: Roughly 1:1:1 at 2.25oz/gal @ 54*f
Columbus/Nectaron/Freestyle Motueka

I'm always amazed that people are able to use those hopping rates and not get an insanely bitter beer. I love bitter beers, but I find when I add any more than 8-10oz between the whirlpool and dry hop I get an insane amount of bitterness.

I whirlpool at 175, I only dry hop post fermentation/soft crash and still just get whacked with perceived bitterness.

 

[Dgallo]

I'm always amazed that people are able to use those hopping rates and not get an insanely bitter beer. I love bitter beers, but I find when I add any more than 8-10oz between the whirlpool and dry hop I get an insane amount of bitterness.

I’d assume your actually getting hop burn, comes across and a spicy astringent bitterness? If that’s the case, you should look into soft crashing and lowering your dryhop temp

 

[elproducto]

I’d assume your actually getting hop burn, comes across and a spicy astringent bitterness? If that’s the case, you should look into soft crashing and lowering your dryhop temp

Haha, sorry, I edited my post. I soft crash, and dry hop for 2 days at 55F. I do like the idea you mentioned about hopping for actual volumes, not the kettle volume.

 

[elproducto]

Ok, just got a big hop order in. I've pretty much stuck with Citra Mosaic Simcoe up until now. Give me a killer hop combo for my next Westie.

I ordered Nelson and Strata over and above my usual suspects.

 

[Dgallo]

Ok, just got a big hop order in. I've pretty much stuck with Citra Mosaic Simcoe up until now. Give me a killer hop combo for my next Westie.

I ordered Nelson and Strata over and above my usual suspects.

Nelson/strata/citra
Nelson/strata/mosaic

I’ve had really good luck with both of those. Think I liked the mosaic a little more. But both were very good

 

[elproducto]

Nelson/strata/citra
Nelson/strata/mosaic

I’ve had really good luck with both of those. Think I liked the mosaic a little more. But both were very good

Thanks! Do you like equal parts? Or do you mix it up a bit to favour certain hops?

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks! Do you like equal parts? Or do you mix it up a bit to favour certain hops?

I typically base ratios off how the hops actually smell or my prior experience using the lot I have.

I would use the strata in boil, strata and citra or mosaic in the whirlpool 1:1. If when I opened the Nelson, if it smelled herby or dank I’d use it whirlpool too. If it were very bright and white wine/gooseberry I’d use it only in the dryhop.

Based on what I currently have on hand it would be

Boil: strata
Whirlpool: mosaic or citra to strata 1:1
Dryhop : mosaic or citra to Nelson 2:1

 

[elproducto]

I typically base ratios off how the hops actually smell or my prior experience using the lot I have.

I would use the strata in boil, strata and citra or mosaic in the whirlpool 1:1. If when I opened the Nelson, if it smelled herby or dank I’d use it whirlpool too. If it were very bright and white wine/gooseberry I’d use it only in the dryhop.

Based on what I currently have on hand it would be

Boil: strata
Whirlpool: mosaic or citra to strata 1:1
Dryhop : mosaic or citra to Nelson 2:1

Thanks , this is great advice. I always have trouble evaluating hops by smell but this is something I'm going to do more of.
Cheers!

 

[Genuine]

I know what I'm brewing next! This will be great to crush through Spring time