American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[Dgallo]

I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!

These are all solid.
Brooklyn
Other half, Grimm, king county brewers collective (KCBC),

Queens
Finback, singlecut.

 

[Fergal]

Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Finnback does a great job.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!

Yeah, here in the US you have to double check that the Pale Ale on the board is not 6.5% ABV. On my recent trip to NZ, there was always a 5% Hazy Pale Ales or two on tap, but it is a style that is almost non-existent here. It seems that the only thing that sells better than a 8% IPA, is a 9.5% IPA.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!

Don't forget US pints are smaller, they're not far off an Aussie schooner.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I would recommend Harlem hops. They carry fidens and root and branch. A little pricy but well worth it.

 

[spersichilli]

I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!

Honestly I think in NYC the most efficient use of your time is going to be hitting beer bars vs breweries. You'll get a wider variety of stuff and NYC has a higher concentration of great beer bars than pretty much anywhere else. Beer Street (2 locations), Harlem Hops, Bierwax, Torst, Gold Star, Beer Run, As Is, Blind Tiger just to name a few. They don't use untappd as much for taplists there for some reason, most places use BeerMenus, just a heads up

 

[Fergal]

Yeah, here in the US you have to double check that the Pale Ale on the board is not 6.5% ABV. On my recent trip to NZ, there was always a 5% Hazy Pale Ales or two on tap, but it is a style that is almost non-existent here. It seems that the only thing that sells better than a 8% IPA, is a 9.5% IPA.

This is true. I actually really like the 5.5% DDH hazy pale ale style. I find it more of a challenge to brew too because everything has got to be properly balanced or the mouthfeel is way off. But I digress!

 

[Fergal]

Honestly I think in NYC the most efficient use of your time is going to be hitting beer bars vs breweries. You'll get a wider variety of stuff and NYC has a higher concentration of great beer bars than pretty much anywhere else. Beer Street (2 locations), Harlem Hops, Bierwax, Torst, Gold Star, Beer Run, As Is, Blind Tiger just to name a few. They don't use untappd as much for taplists there for some reason, most places use BeerMenus, just a heads up

This is a good call and thanks for the list. My mate lives in Brooklyn and has taken me to a few good spots including Torst. I had one of those moments that live long in the memory there - trying my first alchemist heady topper well and truly buzzed whilst listening to Marty Robbins sing big Iron. He has mentioned Blind Tiger too. Interestingly our best beers of the day were in Torst and were from Fox Farm - they were standouts.

 

[LCBA]

I took my first crack at brewing the recipe in the first post and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I'm getting virtually no hop flavor or aroma at all, like almost nothing, also very little bitterness, I'm kinda stumped. I kegged it on the 14th, so maybe more time will help?

• Used the water profile provided in the recipe
• Yeast starter with US-05, used yeast nutrients, aerated wort with pure o2, fermented at 68, let rise to 70 for the last 2 days or so
• Dry hopped at ~1.015 to help it creep down, final gravity was 1.009
• Kettle ph of 5.2, post WP ph adjusted down to 5.0

I have a conical fermenter, so I sampled the beer after about 36 hours of dry hopping and was getting no hop flavor or aroma, so I dumped the yeast and existing hops, and added another 2oz of citra lupomax and 1.5oz of simcoe (7 gallon batch), I even roused the hops with co2. I let that sit for another 24 hours, cold crashed and packaged.

I brew mostly NEIPAs so maybe I've carried over some habit that doesn't work with this style? Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[spersichilli]

I took my first crack at brewing the recipe in the first post and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I'm getting virtually no hop flavor or aroma at all, like almost nothing, also very little bitterness, I'm kinda stumped. I kegged it on the 14th, so maybe more time will help?

• Used the water profile provided in the recipe
• Yeast starter with US-05, used yeast nutrients, aerated wort with pure o2, fermented at 68, let rise to 70 for the last 2 days or so
• Dry hopped at ~1.015 to help it creep down, final gravity was 1.009
• Kettle ph of 5.2, post WP ph adjusted down to 5.0

I have a conical fermenter, so I sampled the beer after about 36 hours of dry hopping and was getting no hop flavor or aroma, so I dumped the yeast and existing hops, and added another 2oz of citra lupomax and 1.5oz of simcoe (7 gallon batch), I even roused the hops with co2. I let that sit for another 24 hours, cold crashed and packaged.

I brew mostly NEIPAs so maybe I've carried over some habit that doesn't work with this style? Thoughts or suggestions?

If you have a conical you should be dry hopping post ferm after you dump the yeast. I’ve found I’ve gotten much brighter hop character with dry hopping off of the yeast vs dry hopping at the tail end of fermentation

 

[LCBA]

If you have a conical you should be dry hopping post ferm after you dump the yeast. I’ve found I’ve gotten much brighter hop character with dry hopping off of the yeast vs dry hopping at the tail end of fermentation

I agree with that, but I was trying to use the hop creep to drive down the FG. That's also why I did a secondary dry hop post fermentation, albeit with smaller amounts of hops just to see if I could get something.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I took my first crack at brewing the recipe in the first post and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I'm getting virtually no hop flavor or aroma at all, like almost nothing, also very little bitterness, I'm kinda stumped. I kegged it on the 14th, so maybe more time will help?

• Used the water profile provided in the recipe
• Yeast starter with US-05, used yeast nutrients, aerated wort with pure o2, fermented at 68, let rise to 70 for the last 2 days or so
• Dry hopped at ~1.015 to help it creep down, final gravity was 1.009
• Kettle ph of 5.2, post WP ph adjusted down to 5.0

I have a conical fermenter, so I sampled the beer after about 36 hours of dry hopping and was getting no hop flavor or aroma, so I dumped the yeast and existing hops, and added another 2oz of citra lupomax and 1.5oz of simcoe (7 gallon batch), I even roused the hops with co2. I let that sit for another 24 hours, cold crashed and packaged.

I brew mostly NEIPAs so maybe I've carried over some habit that doesn't work with this style? Thoughts or suggestions?

Dang that sounds totally dissapointing! Your details and process sounds pretty solid to me its hard to know exactly what led to the crappy result. But really appreciate you bringing it up for discussion, that's really the point of a thread like this. Its hard to imagine a beer with the amount of hops you are using (around 5 oz hot side and 12oz cold side and 50+ ibus) having no hop flavor and aroma without some big flaw in process (oxidation is an obvious suspect but doesn't sound like it) or terrible quality hops. I think the total amount of DH you used is actually a good place to start for these. if you have 7 gal in the conical you really need a 14oz DH to get to 4lb/bbl. And you likely had 8 gallons or more in the boil so your hop rates probably need to be adjusted.

I've found pretty often that my very cold, recently packaged hoppy beers have little hop aroma. Something about giving it a week helps it "find itself". Definately try serving warmer (like 45F) that often get aroma to pop.

Could your fining process be an issue?

In terms of DH process - yeah I'm certainly not going to bat for the warm and long DH method that I suggest in this thread. But I have talked to a couple of excellent brewers who use this approach for WCIPA where as they use the cold and short (and higher rates) for hazies. My anecdote is I generally get better hop aroma from cold and short with lots of agitation, so maybe worth sticking to your usual process.

Some other thoughts: I've drifted from the original recipe over time as I think others have too. I think I prefer a bigger DH (12-15oz) and more ibus (60+ calculated). I see the place for a little character malt like vienna. But those are preferences and I definately still see the BEST breweries out here making these beers with 100% pils and low IBUs and the final product is SO light and quaffable, lager-like in drinkability.

 

[LCBA]

Dang that sounds totally dissapointing! Your details and process sounds pretty solid to me its hard to know exactly what led to the crappy result. But really appreciate you bringing it up for discussion, that's really the point of a thread like this. Its hard to imagine a beer with the amount of hops you are using (around 5 oz hot side and 12oz cold side and 50+ ibus) having no hop flavor and aroma without some big flaw in process (oxidation is an obvious suspect but doesn't sound like it) or terrible quality hops. I think the total amount of DH you used is actually a good place to start for these. if you have 7 gal in the conical you really need a 14oz DH to get to 4lb/bbl. And you likely had 8 gallons or more in the boil so your hop rates probably need to be adjusted.

I've found pretty often that my very cold, recently packaged hoppy beers have little hop aroma. Something about giving it a week helps it "find itself". Definately try serving warmer (like 45F) that often get aroma to pop.

Could your fining process be an issue?

In terms of DH process - yeah I'm certainly not going to bat for the warm and long DH method that I suggest in this thread. But I have talked to a couple of excellent brewers who use this approach for WCIPA where as they use the cold and short (and higher rates) for hazies. My anecdote is I generally get better hop aroma from cold and short with lots of agitation, so maybe worth sticking to your usual process.

Some other thoughts: I've drifted from the original recipe over time as I think others have too. I think I prefer a bigger DH (12-15oz) and more ibus (60+ calculated). I see the place for a little character malt like vienna. But those are preferences and I definately still see the BEST breweries out here making these beers with 100% pils and low IBUs and the final product is SO light and quaffable, lager-like in drinkability.

Appreciate the follow up!

I'm going to rule out oxidation, because I believe I've done everything I can (within reason) to mitigate it (sanitizer purged kegs, purged lines, no oxygen in the conical, purged hops, 3g AA in mash, .5 packaging). My recent NEIPA's have also been really great as well.

Like you mentioned, I'm hoping some time will help it mature a bit. I haven't done any fining, and it hasn't dropped bright yet (kegged on the 14th). I did scale your brewfather recipe to my system, so that should have helped somewhat. I'd be interested to try upping the hop quantities and bitterness like you mentioned.

Perhaps it's my own taste that's changed somewhat. For reference, I kinda went a bit overboard with my last NEIPA, for a 7 gallon batch, my WP hops were 2.5oz citra, 2.5oz citra lupomax, 5oz galaxy, DH was 9oz citra lupomax, and 4.5oz galaxy. I think I got 4.75 gallons after all the losses lol. It was the best post fermentation/pre-dry hop beer I've ever tasted, and the worst beer I've ever made after that dry hop. After waiting about a month, it's calmed down and become one of my favorite beers I've brewed.

Definitely going to try your recipe again with more hops/IBUs... that's kinda my addiction with homebrewing, always chasing how I can make it better!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

also very little bitterness,

That's an obvious place to start - quality of hops? Did the bittering hops have the 13% alpha that the recipe expects? Measurement of weights and times?

Also you might want to change to another member of the Chico family, I know some people aren't big fans of the Cellar Science.

 

[LCBA]

That's an obvious place to start - quality of hops? Did the bittering hops have the 13% alpha that the recipe expects? Measurement of weights and times?

Also you might want to change to another member of the Chico family, I know some people aren't big fans of the Cellar Science.

My Simcoe was only 11.9% AA, but I also adjusted everything in Brewfather to account for this. All my hops are kept frozen in their original bags, never had any issues with them. Weights and times are all consistent.

I don't have access to Cellar Science, so I used Fermentis US-05. I will say this is the first time I get a slighty peachy taste. I've never experienced this before from US-05, but I don't mind it.

I honestly think I just need to add in more hops for my own taste. Here's what I'm thinking https://share.brewfather.app/8Oabe90pd08UNk

 

[spersichilli]

So I just got gold in 21A at the NHC Tampa regional for a malt extract WC IPA fermented with Lutra lmao. Recipe below

For 4 gallons.
OG 1.061 FG 1.010 78.1 calculated IBUs. Water treated to 300 SO4:50Cl.

Basically the play here is to add roughly half of your malt extract at 60 mins with your dextrose and then add the other half at 15 mins. This kind of ended up being a last minute freezer cleaning IPA thus the random hop combo and amounts

2lbs Pils DME, 1lb dextrose at 60 mins
2.5 lbs Pils DME at 15 mins

~50 IBUs CTZ at 60
~6ibus Amarillo at 10 mins (.5 oz)
~9ibus Amarillo LUPOMAX at 10 mins (.5oz)

1.5 oz Amarillo (3.5 ibu), 1.5 oz Amarillo Lupomax (5.4 ibu), 1oz chinook (3.3 ibu) .2oz CTZ (1 ibu) WP 30 mins at 160. Dropped to 5.0 pH at knockout with 10% phosphoric acid

DH: 5oz Mosaic, 3oz Chinook, 2oz Pacific Sunrise CGX, 1oz Nelson CGX for 24 hours at ~50ish degrees. Added biofine at dry hop

Fermented with 1 pack of Omega Lutra in my Florida garage at around 90F for 3 days.

Next time I’d change the hop combo up a bit and lower the dextrose amount but other than that super happy with it

 

[spersichilli]

So I just got gold in 21A at the NHC Tampa regional for a malt extract NEIPA fermented with Lutra lmao. Recipe below

For 4 gallons.
OG 1.061 FG 1.010 78.1 calculated IBUs. Water treated to 300 SO4:50Cl.

Basically the play here is to add roughly half of your malt extract at 60 mins with your dextrose and then add the other half at 15 mins. This kind of ended up being a last minute freezer cleaning IPA thus the random hop combo and amounts

2lbs Pils DME, 1lb dextrose at 60 mins
2.5 lbs Pils DME at 15 mins

~50 IBUs CTZ at 60
~6ibus Amarillo at 10 mins (.5 oz)
~9ibus Amarillo LUPOMAX at 10 mins (.5oz)

1.5 oz Amarillo (3.5 ibu), 1.5 oz Amarillo Lupomax (5.4 ibu), 1oz chinook (3.3 ibu) .2oz CTZ (1 ibu) WP 30 mins at 160. Dropped to 5.0 pH at knockout with 10% phosphoric acid

DH: 5oz Mosaic, 3oz Chinook, 2oz Pacific Sunrise CGX, 1oz Nelson CGX for 24 hours at ~50ish degrees. Added biofine at dry hop

Fermented with 1 pack of Omega Lutra in my Florida garage at around 90F for 3 days.

Next time I’d change the hop combo up a bit and lower the dextrose amount but other than that super happy with it

Also in my experience judges kind of don’t know what to do with “new school”/non traditional hops in west coast IPA for stylistic scoring but in miniBOS they don’t care as much

 

[elproducto]

I'm brewing another one of these this weekend, I would love to try ALDC but holy crap. 1oz. is $40 here in Canada!

 

[Dgallo]

I'm brewing another one of these this weekend, I would love to try ALDC but holy crap. 1oz. is $40 here in Canada!

See if they have any of modified yeast that prevent diacetyl production. Pretty sure omega has the us 05

 

[elproducto]

See if they have any of modified yeast that prevent diacetyl production. Pretty sure omega has the us 05

Yeah, they haven't made it here yet. The Thiol boosting strains were slow to get here.
I do believe Escarpment is cooking up something, but haven't heard yet.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah, they haven't made it here yet. The Thiol boosting strains were slow to get here.
I do believe Escarpment is cooking up something, but haven't heard yet.

I love escarpment yeast. To bad the only few places that carry it stateside don’t have the strains I’m looking for or don’t have very fresh stock.

Escarpment Brett D strain is amazing. I make an all Brett ipa that I add mango and pineapple to and it’s outta this world.

 

[elproducto]

I love escarpment yeast. To bad the only few places that carry it stateside don’t have the strains I’m looking for or don’t have very fresh stock.

Escarpment Brett D strain is amazing. I make an all Brett ipa that I add mango and pineapple to and it’s outta this world.

Yeah Escarpment rules, I almost use their yeast exclusively.

We have pretty strict GMO rules here in Canada, so I'm not sure if those DKO strains are modified and that's why it says US only?

For ALDC, what is the dosing? Is it similar to other enzymes, where you just need enough to start the reaction? Like drops?
I'm super sensitive to Diacetyl, and despite all attempts I tend to get it, especially in these lean WCIPA beers.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah Escarpment rules, I almost use their yeast exclusively.

We have pretty strict GMO rules here in Canada, so I'm not sure if those DKO strains are modified and that's why it says US only?

For ALDC, what is the dosing? Is it similar to other enzymes, where you just need enough to start the reaction? Like drops?
I'm super sensitive to Diacetyl, and despite all attempts I tend to get it, especially in these lean WCIPA beers.

Don’t quote me on this but I think it’s 3-5 ml per 5 gallons

 

[tdf]

Don’t quote me on this but I think it’s 3-5 ml per 5 gallons

The Cellarscience aldc I've been using says this:

Available in 1 oz dropper bottle or 8 oz bettix bottle. Add to fermenter at time of yeast pitching or dry hopping at a rate of 1 dropper full per 5 gallons. 1 oz contains approximately 35 doses

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-aldc-enzyme.html

So a little less than 1ml per 19L / 5 gallons.

This dosage has worked well for me. For really large dry hops I will dose at yeast pitch and then again when dry hopping.

 

[elproducto]

The Cellarscience aldc I've been using says this:


https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-aldc-enzyme.html

So a little less than 1ml per 19L / 5 gallons.

This dosage has worked well for me. For really large dry hops I will dose at yeast pitch and then again when dry hopping.

Ok, 35 doses per bottle isn't too bad actually!

 

[Dgallo]

The Cellarscience aldc I've been using says this:


https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-aldc-enzyme.html

So a little less than 1ml per 19L / 5 gallons.

This dosage has worked well for me. For really large dry hops I will dose at yeast pitch and then again when dry hopping.

For Aldc it’s all about the concentration of the product, so some may have slightly different dosing rates. Definitely good to know though. I’ve only used it once so far as I’ve never really had any issues but I also dryhop cold and go straight to cold storage

 

[Northern_Brewer]

We have pretty strict GMO rules here in Canada, so I'm not sure if those DKO strains are modified and that's why it says US only?

Yep.

 

[Broothru]

Don’t quote me on this but I think it’s 3-5 ml per 5 gallons

I’ve used the Cellar Science ALDC that More Beer has been selling. The directions for 5 gal /19L batches is “one dropper full” which is roughly 5 ml. My batch size into the fermenter is usually 6.75 gallons, so I measured out 7 ml in a pipette at yeast pitch.

It’s a bit pricey (ahem), and the jury’s still out as to whether it works or is worth the price. I’ve also brewed with the DKO yeast from Omega (German Augustiner strain), and frankly I don’t detect any difference. I don’t think I’m sensitive to diacytl but I always do a d-rest just in case.

The only time I’ve had an issue with diacytl was in a competition where a newly anointed judge marked me waaay down for what I think was non-existent, ‘looking’ for a flaw to prove his chops. The other judges didn’t see it either.

The beer I used the ALDC in is a WCIPA that just started cold crashing. The FG ended much higher than I had estimated (1.017 vs 1.011 est.). Not sure why it quit, but it never budged for 3 days, even when the temperature was raised to 73F for d-rest. I had two pounds of rice solids to boost ABV and dry out the finish. But even with all the simple sugars, the ALDC didn’t stimulate all the dextrin to get consumed. The final sample tasted nicely hopped, though a bit unbalanced sweet nonetheless. ABV was 5.6%, so it’s ’acceptable’ even though my target was 6.4%

We’ll see after it’s cleared and carbed if the residual sweetness fades, or if the ALDC does a late kick-in to ferment dextrins.

 

[DrGMG]

I only use ALDC on IPAs. It does last so it doesn't end up being that expensive.