German Pils The Lazy German (raw, warm fermented pilsener)

[Beer666]

That is an interesting approach with the extract. Let us know how it turns out!

I need to find the dosage instructions as there are none on the bottle (apart from dose to taste and be cautious) but apparently its instant. I also bought some mittlefruh aroma oil which smells great. I might practice on a starter.
The raw kolsch seems to have finished fermenting, have to be patient and leave it a few weeks before crashing but from what i can see its already started to settle after 72 hours. If i can get a beer looking as clear as yours i will be a happy man.

 

[Miraculix]

I need to find the dosage instructions as there are none on the bottle (apart from dose to taste and be cautious) but apparently its instant. I also bought some mittlefruh aroma oil which smells great. I might practice on a starter.
The raw kolsch seems to have finished fermenting, have to be patient and leave it a few weeks before crashing but from what i can see its already started to settle after 72 hours. If i can get a beer looking as clear as yours i will be a happy man.

The bottle stood in the fridge for more than a week, that's why it is so clear!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Be cautious on the alpha extract - it’s pretty concentrated. I don’t have my notes with me so don’t quote me on this but IIRC the Richie’s extract I use works out at about 4 IBU from 1ml in 20 litres of wort.

Other manufacturers will be different, you should be able to find a spec sheet somewhere.

 

[Beer666]

Here is the raw kolsch. Been carbing in the keg for 2 days, brewed 25th June. Its actually a bit clearer than it looks in the photo. Would say its about as clear as a boiled version at this time. I would expect it to clear a little more in a week if it lasts that long. First time i have dry hopped with this yeast (crossmyloof kolsch) though so maybe that has made it a bit hazier. Tastes just like a boiled beer to me. Its crisp, clean, refreshing and moorish with some nice lacing. I will be trying some different yeast next time as i have used this one a lot but i would highly recommend giving it a go. I added another 10 IBU's of oil to the keg as i didn't think it had enough bite. The oil has definitely been a success and well worth having. Next batch i will boil the hops like you did to see if i can get any more flavour.
Cheers mate i would of never brewed this without your thread.

 

[Miraculix]

Here is the raw kolsch. Been carbing in the keg for 2 days, brewed 25th June. Its actually a bit clearer than it looks in the photo. Would say its about as clear as a boiled version at this time. I would expect it to clear a little more in a week if it lasts that long. First time i have dry hopped with this yeast (crossmyloof kolsch) though so maybe that has made it a bit hazier. Tastes just like a boiled beer to me. Its crisp, clean, refreshing and moorish with some nice lacing. I will be trying some different yeast next time as i have used this one a lot but i would highly recommend giving it a go. I added another 10 IBU's of oil to the keg as i didn't think it had enough bite. The oil has definitely been a success and well worth having. Next batch i will boil the hops like you did to see if i can get any more flavour.
Cheers mate i would of never brewed this without your thread.
View attachment 579198

Great to hear that it was a success! I actually also got a pack of crossmyloof yeast flying around, the Belgian one.

Gonna use it at some point

 

[Ninoid]

I currently no have time for brewing, but have too much beers in fridge.
My No Boil / No Chill Saison is still very good for drinking. After one month from bottling.

 

[Miraculix]

I currently no have time for brewing, but have too much beers in fridge.
My No Boil / No Chill Saison is still very good for drinking. After one month from bottling.

Hahaha, I know this problem party well.I also got way too much beer so I decided to brew only small batches at the moment, till I got rid of all the stuff I currently have in stock.

 

[Beer666]

I have loads of old beer i don't want to drink. I brew more than even i can swill. Beer is now perfectly clear. Will have a new batch on the go soon.

 

[Miraculix]

I have loads of old beer i don't want to drink. I brew more than even i can swill. Beer is now perfectly clear. Will have a new batch on the go soon.

View attachment 579815

That looks pretty yummy to me!

Does it also have this enhanced graininess which I experienced with my raw pilsener? I thought this fits the pilsener style perfectly.

 

[Beer666]

That looks pretty yummy to me!

Does it also have this enhanced graininess which I experienced with my raw pilsener? I thought this fits the pilsener style perfectly.

I took a gravity reading last night as i forgot when i was bottling. Very surprised to find out its 1015. I remember now this was the first brew with a new pump and the temps went into the 70's at one point. I thought i had gotten away with it but it must of produced plenty of unfermentables. Strange thing is it does not taste sweet in any way which i good as i like my beer dry. So i cant really answer about the graininess until i brew another one after i retune my system.

 

[Miraculix]

I took a gravity reading last night as i forgot when i was bottling. Very surprised to find out its 1015. I remember now this was the first brew with a new pump and the temps went into the 70's at one point. I thought i had gotten away with it but it must of produced plenty of unfermentables. Strange thing is it does not taste sweet in any way which i good as i like my beer dry. So i cant really answer about the graininess until i brew another one after i retune my system.

I think this might be more yeast related than temperature. Some non fermentable just don't taste sweet, this can be the case here!

 

[Miraculix]

Brewed another version of this one here yesterday. Aimed at a higher sulfate level of around 200ppm, used gypsum for this.

81% mo pale
10% flaked oats
7% melanoidin malt
2% acidulated malt

Mashed at around 65c for one hour with lots of stirring.

Motueka hops in plain water for 30ibus
25% of the hops @30min
25% of the hops @10 min
50% of the hops @ 3 min plus letting it stand for about 10 min after flame out.

Will probably dry hop with 2g/l with the same hop.

Og came in as 1.052, almost 85% efficiency .

The oats are in there to enhance shelf stability and to boost yeast health. They won't contribute anything to the taste at all.

The yeast is mangrove jack California lager.

I am fermenting this in the kettle I mashed in. After removing the grain bag and adding the hop tea, I brought it up to 75c, this should have pasteurized the liquid and the kettle itself.

Cooled it afterwards in the sink down to room temp and just sprinkled a pack of the yeast on top to further eliminate possible sources of contamination during rehydration.

I duck taped the kettle lid (yes, I am 105% professional ) to close it almost air tight.

MC gyver would be proud of me.

 

[Ninoid]

I gave up the No Boil method. Most because the smell and the taste quickly deteriorate. I think 15-minute boil combined with hop tea for bitterness best of both techniques (Boil / No Boil).

 

[Miraculix]

I gave up the No Boil method. Most because the smell and the taste quickly deteriorate. I think 15-minute boil combined with hop tea for bitterness best of both techniques (Boil / No Boil).

This is my last attempt on it. If it does not work propperly, I will try the 15 min boil.

I read that oats should enhance the shelf live, combined with a pasteurization of the whole equipment used, I hope that this beer will stay good longer.

If it does not, I will try what you said.

Other people had success with this method, the beer stayed good for way longer than a month. I think that our beers might just have been infected. But who knows....

 

[Ninoid]

I drink No Boil beer after month and half and it is drinkable (not infected), but have strange smell and taste.

 

[Miraculix]

I drink No Boil beer after month and half and it is drinkable (not infected), but have strange smell and taste.

Strange smell and taste can be caused by an infection. Infection does not mean that the beer has to be completely undrinkable!

 

[Miraculix]

We have now low than 30 degrees Celsius in the UK and my beer is still in the heavy krausen phase, meaning second day of fermentation without any temperature control.

Now the mj yeast can really show what it is capable of!

Lager at saison temperatures, if this works out, it would be brilliant.

 

[Ninoid]

We have now low than 30 degrees Celsius in the UK and my beer is still in the heavy krausen phase, meaning second day of fermentation without any temperature control.

Now the mj yeast can really show what it is capable of!

Lager at saison temperatures, if this works out, it would be brilliant.

I try beer with W-34/70 at 27'C and is disasters. Esters is overflowing and beer is poured in WC.

 

[Miraculix]

I try beer with W-34/70 at 27'C and is disasters. Esters is overflowing and beer is poured in WC.

Hahaha, ok that sounds very "promising"

 

[Ninoid]

But, I hear that W-34/70 can work very good at 28'C (brulosophy), but with few pack of dry yeast or strong starter that is started on 12'C (in fridge) and, on high krausen, poured in fermenter.

 

[Beer666]

I had a sample of my raw Pilsner v2 last night. The spoonful i tried was clear and clean tasting. I dry hopped with 15g of mittlefruh as was all i had left then decided to add 100g of centenial as well. Should be drinking this in a week. Cant wait to try it.

 

[Miraculix]

I had a sample of my raw Pilsner v2 last night. The spoonful i tried was clear and clean tasting. I dry hopped with 15g of mittlefruh as was all i had left then decided to add 100g of centenial as well. Should be drinking this in a week. Cant wait to try it.

I will dry hop mine probably tomorrow with the motueka I got left. Well be about 3g/l, a bit much but I don't want to have ten g left flying around forever in my freezer.

This is a terror lager, 30 degrees Celsius plus during high krausen, if this is going to be at least half way decent mj cl had proven itself to be a killer yeast. Will take a sample tomorrow to see.

Did your v1 turn bad over time?

 

[Miraculix]

Tasted it today when I threw in the dry hops. Just sliiiightly fruity, in a very pleasant way. AWESOME!!!!! MJ CL Can be fermented at 30 degrees +

Tastes a bit like a very clean american ale strain, but really nice. I feel relieved!

 

[Beer666]

Thats brilliant news! Absolutely fantastic! I can still brew when the fridge is full. Thats nearly 10c over recommended temps as well
I found 2 bottles of the raw koslch last night and put one in the fridge to test. If its decent you can have the other bottle. Looks clear and the bottle is nice and tight.

 

[Ninoid]

Tasted it today when I threw in the dry hops. Just sliiiightly fruity, in a very pleasant way. AWESOME!!!!! MJ CL Can be fermented at 30 degrees +

Tastes a bit like a very clean american ale strain, but really nice. I feel relieved!

Do you use only one pack of 11g Californian Lager yeast on 23L of beer?

 

[Miraculix]

Do you use only one pack of 11g Californian Lager yeast on 23L of beer?

In this case, it was one pack on 16l beer, but only sprinkled on top, no rehydration.

 

[Miraculix]

Thats brilliant news! Absolutely fantastic! I can still brew when the fridge is full. Thats nearly 10c over recommended temps as well
I found 2 bottles of the raw koslch last night and put one in the fridge to test. If its decent you can have the other bottle. Looks clear and the bottle is nice and tight.

That would be nice! But only if you are from the UK, otherwise it would be a bit too much for the shipping.

 

[Beer666]

Drinking the kolsch now brewed on 26th June. Tastes fine, carbed nicely and decent lacing. No sign of oxidisation. Would not know this was a raw beer. Only downside to this bottle is chill haze. It was crystal before going in the fridge and the kegged version as you know was clear. This is a problem i have had with lots of my beers lately though and nothing to do with it being no boil. I also found another 5 bottles so i will put a couple in the fridge (set to 1c) for a week and see if they clear.
I found today a raw saison i made last July. Its in the fridge now to try out later this weekend. I really doubt its infected as the bottle is still here.
This thread should be 10 times longer. I have the idea that when you mention raw beer a lot of people conjure up the image of eating uncooked chicken drumsticks and food poisoning. I definitely prefer the term no boil.

 

[Miraculix]

Drinking the kolsch now brewed on 26th June. Tastes fine, carbed nicely and decent lacing. No sign of oxidisation. Would not know this was a raw beer. Only downside to this bottle is chill haze. It was crystal before going in the fridge and the kegged version as you know was clear. This is a problem i have had with lots of my beers lately though and nothing to do with it being no boil. I also found another 5 bottles so i will put a couple in the fridge (set to 1c) for a week and see if they clear.
I found today a raw saison i made last July. Its in the fridge now to try out later this weekend. I really doubt its infected as the bottle is still here.
This thread should be 10 times longer. I have the idea that when you mention raw beer a lot of people conjure up the image of eating uncooked chicken drumsticks and food poisoning. I definitely prefer the term no boil.

Yes the chill haze can be overcome with cold crashing and than adding gelatine, but otherwise it will be there. It lies in the nature of the beast, no boil means also that no proteins are flocking out during the boil and those proteins then can cause chill haze.

 

[Miraculix]

I bottled it yesterday... unfortunately things appear to have changed since I dry hopped. Some of the flaky, waxy surface floater pieces appeared, like a very thin broken film, had this before, espacially in raw ale. Does not necessarily mean that the beer is destroyed, but it also tasted a bit off, compared to the last time I checked

I bottled it anyway and will play the waiting game. Maybe it was just hop oils, maybe it got infected. 50/50, but the taste test says infection.

The next beer will be like @Ninoid mentioned, a short 15 minute boil with a hop tea on the side done during the mashing. This should do the trick.

Anyway, two weeks to wait, then we will know! .... will have my next beer going when this one will be ready to try. I will brew something red. Maybe just an "ordinary" red Ale. I want to get rid of either all my malt (impossible! got way too much crystal and other speciality malts flying around!) or all my yeast (also kind of a challenge... got soooo much dry yeast) or all of my hops ( the freezer is full....) either way, it will be the base malt that is going to be gone first But I will not buy new stuff until at least one source of ingredients is deplenished!

And regarding this Motueka hops, do not really know what to think of it. It sits somewhere in between american hops and european noble hops... don't know if I actually like that.