German Pils The Lazy German (raw, warm fermented pilsener)

[Beer666]

I had a sample of my raw Pilsner v2 last night. The spoonful i tried was clear and clean tasting. I dry hopped with 15g of mittlefruh as was all i had left then decided to add 100g of centenial as well. Should be drinking this in a week. Cant wait to try it.

 

[Miraculix]

I had a sample of my raw Pilsner v2 last night. The spoonful i tried was clear and clean tasting. I dry hopped with 15g of mittlefruh as was all i had left then decided to add 100g of centenial as well. Should be drinking this in a week. Cant wait to try it.

I will dry hop mine probably tomorrow with the motueka I got left. Well be about 3g/l, a bit much but I don't want to have ten g left flying around forever in my freezer.

This is a terror lager, 30 degrees Celsius plus during high krausen, if this is going to be at least half way decent mj cl had proven itself to be a killer yeast. Will take a sample tomorrow to see.

Did your v1 turn bad over time?

 

[Miraculix]

Tasted it today when I threw in the dry hops. Just sliiiightly fruity, in a very pleasant way. AWESOME!!!!! MJ CL Can be fermented at 30 degrees +

Tastes a bit like a very clean american ale strain, but really nice. I feel relieved!

 

[Beer666]

Thats brilliant news! Absolutely fantastic! I can still brew when the fridge is full. Thats nearly 10c over recommended temps as well
I found 2 bottles of the raw koslch last night and put one in the fridge to test. If its decent you can have the other bottle. Looks clear and the bottle is nice and tight.

 

[Ninoid]

Tasted it today when I threw in the dry hops. Just sliiiightly fruity, in a very pleasant way. AWESOME!!!!! MJ CL Can be fermented at 30 degrees +

Tastes a bit like a very clean american ale strain, but really nice. I feel relieved!

Do you use only one pack of 11g Californian Lager yeast on 23L of beer?

 

[Miraculix]

Do you use only one pack of 11g Californian Lager yeast on 23L of beer?

In this case, it was one pack on 16l beer, but only sprinkled on top, no rehydration.

 

[Miraculix]

Thats brilliant news! Absolutely fantastic! I can still brew when the fridge is full. Thats nearly 10c over recommended temps as well
I found 2 bottles of the raw koslch last night and put one in the fridge to test. If its decent you can have the other bottle. Looks clear and the bottle is nice and tight.

That would be nice! But only if you are from the UK, otherwise it would be a bit too much for the shipping.

 

[Beer666]

Drinking the kolsch now brewed on 26th June. Tastes fine, carbed nicely and decent lacing. No sign of oxidisation. Would not know this was a raw beer. Only downside to this bottle is chill haze. It was crystal before going in the fridge and the kegged version as you know was clear. This is a problem i have had with lots of my beers lately though and nothing to do with it being no boil. I also found another 5 bottles so i will put a couple in the fridge (set to 1c) for a week and see if they clear.
I found today a raw saison i made last July. Its in the fridge now to try out later this weekend. I really doubt its infected as the bottle is still here.
This thread should be 10 times longer. I have the idea that when you mention raw beer a lot of people conjure up the image of eating uncooked chicken drumsticks and food poisoning. I definitely prefer the term no boil.

 

[Miraculix]

Drinking the kolsch now brewed on 26th June. Tastes fine, carbed nicely and decent lacing. No sign of oxidisation. Would not know this was a raw beer. Only downside to this bottle is chill haze. It was crystal before going in the fridge and the kegged version as you know was clear. This is a problem i have had with lots of my beers lately though and nothing to do with it being no boil. I also found another 5 bottles so i will put a couple in the fridge (set to 1c) for a week and see if they clear.
I found today a raw saison i made last July. Its in the fridge now to try out later this weekend. I really doubt its infected as the bottle is still here.
This thread should be 10 times longer. I have the idea that when you mention raw beer a lot of people conjure up the image of eating uncooked chicken drumsticks and food poisoning. I definitely prefer the term no boil.

Yes the chill haze can be overcome with cold crashing and than adding gelatine, but otherwise it will be there. It lies in the nature of the beast, no boil means also that no proteins are flocking out during the boil and those proteins then can cause chill haze.

 

[Miraculix]

I bottled it yesterday... unfortunately things appear to have changed since I dry hopped. Some of the flaky, waxy surface floater pieces appeared, like a very thin broken film, had this before, espacially in raw ale. Does not necessarily mean that the beer is destroyed, but it also tasted a bit off, compared to the last time I checked

I bottled it anyway and will play the waiting game. Maybe it was just hop oils, maybe it got infected. 50/50, but the taste test says infection.

The next beer will be like @Ninoid mentioned, a short 15 minute boil with a hop tea on the side done during the mashing. This should do the trick.

Anyway, two weeks to wait, then we will know! .... will have my next beer going when this one will be ready to try. I will brew something red. Maybe just an "ordinary" red Ale. I want to get rid of either all my malt (impossible! got way too much crystal and other speciality malts flying around!) or all my yeast (also kind of a challenge... got soooo much dry yeast) or all of my hops ( the freezer is full....) either way, it will be the base malt that is going to be gone first But I will not buy new stuff until at least one source of ingredients is deplenished!

And regarding this Motueka hops, do not really know what to think of it. It sits somewhere in between american hops and european noble hops... don't know if I actually like that.

 

[Ninoid]

Good example for 15-minute boil:

https://www.onehourbrewday.com/category/one-hour-brew-day-recipes/

Any standard one-hour boil recipe work. Only double amount of bittering hops.

 

[Beer666]

Sorry to hear of your problem. I remember having that before when i first started but read people saying bottle from underneath. I tried the 13th month old bottle and was not infected. A bit tasteless but would be drinkable to many. I am on no boil 5 and so far had no infections. Had 2 recent boiled beers that had a tcp feel i had to chuck though
I kegged the lat batch 2 days ago and it tastes great. Lovely flavour. Brewed 21st July and almost crystal clear. I accidentally froze the top layer of beer so the sediment trap got stuck under the ice and sucked in a bit of krausen.
To be honest i am enjoying this method of brewing so much i am going to experiment with more styles. I did a wheat beer last week and that tasted amazing after 2 days. Will be kegging it in a week if its still ok. I noticed i had not closed the lid properly after top cropping some yeast.
I think if you pasteurise to 75c for 20 mins your not going to need to boil. This is saving me time, energy and water. Superb stuff!

 

[Ninoid]

My last batch is boiled 30 min on 95'C (electric system 2000W on 23L batch) and taste great after two months.
Next batch I plan to boil 15 min on same temperature.

I plan to drink tonight some bottles from my previous No Boil batch of same beer (Saison, 40 day in fridge). I will report the result.

 

[Miraculix]

Sorry to hear of your problem. I remember having that before when i first started but read people saying bottle from underneath. I tried the 13th month old bottle and was not infected. A bit tasteless but would be drinkable to many. I am on no boil 5 and so far had no infections. Had 2 recent boiled beers that had a tcp feel i had to chuck though
I kegged the lat batch 2 days ago and it tastes great. Lovely flavour. Brewed 21st July and almost crystal clear. I accidentally froze the top layer of beer so the sediment trap got stuck under the ice and sucked in a bit of krausen.
To be honest i am enjoying this method of brewing so much i am going to experiment with more styles. I did a wheat beer last week and that tasted amazing after 2 days. Will be kegging it in a week if its still ok. I noticed i had not closed the lid properly after top cropping some yeast.
I think if you pasteurise to 75c for 20 mins your not going to need to boil. This is saving me time, energy and water. Superb stuff!

I agree with all of that.

I think I introduced this stuff during the dry hopping. But let's see,I will sample one tonight, maybe it will be fine.

Otherwise, I am currently fermenting my house ale with a 15 min boil, this night also do the job. We will see!

If I try a raw one again soon,I will skip the dry hopping.

 

[Ninoid]

I, and my friends, drinks some bottles from my previous No Boil batch of Saison.

Beer still good for drinking. Very taste.
It raises the foam from the bottle (it has to be quickly transposed into the glass) and has little different bitterness, but it is good to drink and not have unwanted flavors.
I am pretty pleased with taste and self life of this batch. Maybe problem with previous No Boil batches is with yeast. Saison yeast is, maybe, better for No Boil method.

 

[Miraculix]

Ladys and Gentleman!

I can now confirm that my last batch of raw ale was a success

I have no idea what the initial problem was (maybe the beer tasted just a bit green?? maybe the yeast needed a bit more time to clean up??? I really don't know!), but I just had a glas of this MO lager with Motueka hops and it was delicious. Only downside, no head retention at all. But I can live with that. I don't know why, but I like to blame the dish washing liquid I used to clean the pot I boiled the hop tea in.

I am relieved that this batch is neither infected nor bad tasting. In fact, it tastes pretty nice. The Motueka brings in some light lemon undertones, I like that. It has not much to do with the initial raw Pils from page one with a dominant noble hop character, but it is also quite a nice one

After all, it looks like it just needed some additional time.

 

[Ninoid]

My Raw Saison i two months in bottles. Have small residue on top of bottle and little strange smell, but is taste for drink. Same beer, but boiled 30 min is one and half months in bottles and is very delicious. Smell, bitterness and taste is super.

I today make new Saison with 15 minute boil. Total 3 hour with all work.

 

[Miraculix]

My Raw Saison i two months in bottles. Have small residue on top of bottle and little strange smell, but is taste for drink. Same beer, but boiled 30 min is one and half months in bottles and is very delicious. Smell, bitterness and taste is super.

I today make new Saison with 15 minute boil. Total 3 hour with all work.

I bottled my house ale today, 15 minute boil. I think this is the way to go for me now, 15. min boiling time is ok.

I think what helped keeping the last raw ale uninfected is that I chilled it in the sink with an ice bath down to pitching temperature in less than an hour and that I heated it up to 75C before.

Chilling it fast and getting the yeast in as quickly as possible gives it a goof head start to all the other stuff which can start growing during the no chill period otherwise.

 

[Ninoid]

Al my beer is No Chill.
I drink in a plastic kettle with an electric heater, so I can not cool it in the kettle in the kettle, and the fermenter is also a plastic pot so I do not dare to temperature shock the plastic so much.

 

[Beer666]

Brewed another raw lager yesterday. I am hoping the FG will be around 1005 so i get a crisp 4% beer.

OG 1036
IBU 28

4kg bohemian pilsner
200g melanoidin light
200g caragold
75g simcoe leaf in the mash
40g simcoe leaf steeped at 75c for 20mins
MJ54 yeast
5ml amalayse 400 in FV

 

[Ninoid]

New batch of Pale Ale for today:

4kg Munich Malt
400g table sugar

All hop boil in 3L of hop tea, chilled and added to end of boil with top-up water:
40g Styrian Dan @30
50g Styrian Dan @5

60 minute mash, 15 minute boil and no chill.
Yeast is US-05

 

[Miraculix]

New batch of Pale Ale for today:

4kg Munich Malt
400g table sugar

All hop boil in 3L of hop tea, chilled and added to end of boil with top-up water:
40g Styrian Dan @30
50g Styrian Dan @5

60 minute mash, 15 minute boil and no chill.
Yeast is US-05

My previous no boil beer got infected. I will ditch the no boil method and will instead continue with the 15 min boil method you are also using.

 

[Beer666]

The last no boil has finished fermenting. Got down to 1000 from 1035 making it 4.6%. I could not resist taking a sample, been in there a week. Going to leave it another week to hopefully clear a bit then do a small dry hop and add a hop tea. Its a bit tasteless but i can see it being really crisp once its carbed. Beer tastes balanced but very low bitterness. Does not taste as dry as you might imagine.

 

[Ninoid]

The last no boil has finished fermenting. Got down to 1000 from 1035 making it 4.6%. I could not resist taking a sample, been in there a week. Going to leave it another week to hopefully clear a bit then do a small dry hop and add a hop tea. Its a bit tasteless but i can see it being really crisp once its carbed. Beer tastes balanced but very low bitterness. Does not taste as dry as you might imagine.

Drink this fast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

then do a small dry hop and add a hop tea. Its a bit tasteless but i can see it being really crisp once its carbed. Beer tastes balanced but very low bitterness.

Alpha extract is an alternative to making a hop tea FWIW.

 

[Miraculix]

Alpha extract is an alternative to making a hop tea FWIW.

I really struggle to keep this in mind, but I really try to think of it when I do my next order. This stuff would be really convenient.

I wonder if the alpha extract has reduced phyto oestrogen content compared to real hops.

 

[Beer666]

I have some of the pre isomerised oil and used it a couple of times and seems to be decent. Also tried mash hopping again and could not detect any flavour or IBU's from it pre fermentation. Been doing a 2l boil on the side and reducing it over 30mins. Used it solely for bittering and to bump up the IBU. Dont be put off if you have tried aroma oils and not liked them
So far done 7 or 8 raw beers and none have gone off yet so not worried about that. Thrown plenty of boiled beer away though i will not lie. Recirculating at 75c for 20m kills everything off.

 

[Beer666]

My last batch of raw lager using amaylase. Finished at 1000. Dry hopped with citra. I mash hopped with simcoe but did not get enough IBU so boiled up 10g of citra plus 30g dry hop. Very hoppy considering how little hops i used, very impressed. Also does not taste dry. Looking forward to bashing in to this tomorrow night. Used mj54 again and finings. This was 24 days old, speant about 5 in the fridge.

 

[Miraculix]

My last batch of raw lager using amaylase. Finished at 1000. Dry hopped with citra. I mash hopped with simcoe but did not get enough IBU so boiled up 10g of citra plus 30g dry hop. Very hoppy considering how little hops i used, very impressed. Also does not taste dry. Looking forward to bashing in to this tomorrow night. Used mj54 again and finings. This was 24 days old, speant about 5 in the fridge.
View attachment 589200

Brut Lager it is! Looks good!

 

[Beer666]

I am not sure if the amylase helped with clarity but this is crystal clear. The first half i poured had a very slight haze after force carbing overnight then the next beer was clear. I found it quite odd that it managed to flocculate overnight whilst being force carbed at 60psi.
I am making another now to put onto this yeast cake. Still using the same yeast i started with. I will dig out the recipe for anyone interested.

 

[Pugnacious Brewing]

I am not sure if the amylase helped with clarity but this is crystal clear. The first half i poured had a very slight haze after force carbing overnight then the next beer was clear. I found it quite odd that it managed to flocculate overnight whilst being force carbed at 60psi.
I am making another now to put onto this yeast cake. Still using the same yeast i started with. I will dig out the recipe for anyone interested.
View attachment 589469

666, that’s beautiful! I would love the recipe. I have not brewed in about a year now, due to stuff, but hope to end that in the next few months. I have been keeping tabs on what y’all are doing here and am intrigued. I have done 30 min mash and boil batches but this looks and sounds fun. I’m also a dry yeast fan, but have yet to try the offerings from MJ. What is your take on them? Do you like the profile you get from their yeast?
Thanks

 

[Ninoid]

I change No Boil with 15 minute boil and this is a winning combination. I use BeerMate and make simple recipe.

 

[Miraculix]

I change No Boil with 15 minute boil and this is a winning combination. I use BeerMate and make simple recipe.

I am doing the same now. All my last no boil beers were dumpers at the end, so I am ditching this method and do a 15min boil instead. Hop tea on the side in a few litres plain water to get the ibus (this little one can be boiled longer) and that's basically it.

I am quite astonished that you get so steady and good results with the no boil method. maybe you got superior sanitation skills or we got more sturdy bugs here in Europe.

 

[Beer666]

I am doing the same now. All my last no boil beers were dumpers at the end, so I am ditching this method and do a 15min boil instead. Hop tea on the side in a few litres plain water to get the ibus (this little one can be boiled longer) and that's basically it.

I am quite astonished that you get so steady and good results with the no boil method. maybe you got superior sanitation skills or we got more sturdy bugs here in Europe.

It must be because i recirculate the wort at 75c for 20mins. No chilling probably helps as well. Trust me i have thrown plenty of beer away that i have boiled, my sanitation is nothing special. I have made some truly horrible beer and chucked a boiled batch recently.

The recipe was
97% pilsner
2% melanoidin
1% carapils
MJ54

OG was 1035 and i added 5ml of amylase300 to 28l of wort when i pitched the yeast.
Fermented down to 1000 giving 4.5% ABV

I put 100g of simcoe in the mash but i could not taste much from it so after fermentation i boiled 10g of citra in 2l of water for 20m and added that + 30g citra dry hop.

Left in primary for 3 weeks and cold crashed around 6 days.

I don't know if the carapils and melanoidin and necessary until i try brewing it without. The beer has excellent lacing, almost looks like ice cream.

The last batch i did had an OG of 1045 so if it fully attenuates i am going to water it down with a large hop tea.

 

[Ninoid]

My second 15-minutes boiled beer has become sour and very blur after the bottled. I guess fermenter because I did not disinfect it after standing idle for several months. It's my first beer that has become sour. I'll leave him another week to stand, and maybe that acidity is gone.

 

[Ninoid]

Update about blury sour beer.
It is not infected. Problem is lazy yeast (probably too old) and high FG.
I should have left it for another one or two weeks instead of turning it into bottles.
After three week in bootles beer become better. Less sour.

 

[Beer666]

This is my latest no boil lager. MJ54 again with amylase. I overshot the gravity on this beer by 10 points and had to water it down to make a 5.5% beer. I should of watered the wort down before fermentation as i think the flavour suffered. Not crystal clear like the last beer either. Need to keep the alcohol down with these dry beers i think. Next raw lager is going to be a SMASH.

 

[Ninoid]

This is my latest no boil lager. MJ54 again with amylase. I overshot the gravity on this beer by 10 points and had to water it down to make a 5.5% beer. I should of watered the wort down before fermentation as i think the flavour suffered. Not crystal clear like the last beer either. Need to keep the alcohol down with these dry beers i think. Next raw lager is going to be a SMASH.

How to use hops?

 

[Beer666]

How to use hops?

20g of magnum boiled in 2l of water for 30 minutes. Add that to the wort when pasteurising at 75c and steep 50g of saaz. I also added 30g of citra dry hop.

 

[Beer666]

Sadly my last raw batch has gone down the drain. I did not close the lid after adding finings and after a day in the keg its foul. Nothing but my own stupidity to blame. Going back to basics next time.

100% red x
Magnum for bittering
50g mittelfruh in the mash
50g steeped for 20m at 75c when pasterising
MJ54 at 16c