Stone Xocoveza Mocha Stout

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phyllobeddo said:
That's a definite possibility. That was just my take on what I had read at that moment in time.

On a side note, having used cacao nibs on other batches, I would substitute cacao nibs for cocoa powder on the next batch of this one. And 005 would be worth a shot as well. :mug:

So many recipes and so many recipe tweaks......so little time. :)
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Ha im an idiot...WLP-007 not 005...

Cool, good to know about the nibs vs. powder!
 
So Xocoveza 2016 is on the shelves as of last week and It tastes great as usual. I had already planned to brew another clone of it this weekend. I'll try cacao nibs in place of cocoa powder this time and tweak the recipe with ingredients on hand. I'll post that one on here at some point.
 
My usual place getting supplies doesnt have challenger. I'm gonna look at the local liquor store that carries homebrew supplies. If not I saw northern brewer listed as a substitute. What do you think? I have that. Just hate to pay the flat rate shipping from anywhere else for 1 hop. And no one else guarantees liquid yeast viability to my location but ritebrew.
 
so ive been slow to be replying anymore, i sapped you all for knowledge and went on my way... ;) lol totally playing. Been to broke to brew we have a baby on the way. Regardless i did my first (5th brew) all grain batch a couple months ago and sadly blew the ke at NCHF (I suppose that should be taken as a compliment! But it left me beerless in the kegerator!) I have been debating what to brew next as i built a big burly wee heavy winter warmer, but sitting here sipping on the first xocoveza i have ever actually found in person i think im going to opt with this!!! How long did you let it sit totally before bottle or keg? A month???
 
BarrelAgedForrest said:
so ive been slow to be replying anymore, i sapped you all for knowledge and went on my way... ;) lol totally playing. Been to broke to brew we have a baby on the way. Regardless i did my first (5th brew) all grain batch a couple months ago and sadly blew the ke at NCHF (I suppose that should be taken as a compliment! But it left me beerless in the kegerator!) I have been debating what to brew next as i built a big burly wee heavy winter warmer, but sitting here sipping on the first xocoveza i have ever actually found in person i think im going to opt with this!!! How long did you let it sit totally before bottle or keg? A month???
Click to expand...

Yes. One month for mine.
 
I brewed the following using ingredients on hand. I kegged it last week after a month in the primary.

2.5 gallon batch

6 lb Maris Otter 2 row
8 oz Crystal 120
4 oz Black Patent
4 oz Roasted Barley
4 oz Pale Chocolate
4 oz Flaked Oats
3 oz Cara-Pils
3 oz Coffee Malt

55.6 IBU w/70 minute boil
15 g Challenger 60 min
9.2 g Magnum 60 min
12.2 g Fuggles 2 min

Added at kegging:
5 oz lactose and 40 grams corn sugar microwaved in 8 oz water for about six minutes
1/2 oz coffee extract from an espresso pod
1 oz vanilla extract
1/2 oz Pasilla pepper extract from tincture
30 g Pasilla peppers from tincture
2.5 oz toasted cacao nib tincture
5 g ground Ceylon cinnamon

I'll remove the cacao nibs and peppers in a week or two. I haven't decided on how long to leave them in there.
 
BarrelAgedForrest said:
So is Rahr 2 row the same as regular American 2 row? My lhbs doesn't have Rahr 2 row to my knowledge.
Click to expand...

Rahr is the Malting company. You can substitute any 2 row (even Maris Otter or pilsner) as your base malt and you'll be fine. The specialty malts and non-fermentables are what you'll taste.
 
phyllobeddo said:
Yeah, just double it. Here ya go…..

5 gallon batch

8 lb Maris Otter
5 lb Rahr 2 row
1 lb Crystal 70/80*
1 lb Black Patent
8 oz Pale Chocolate
8 oz Flaked Oats
8 oz Cara foam or Cara-Pils
6 oz Coffee Malt

Lactose - 12oz boil 20 minutes
Nestle Cocoa Powder - 8 oz boil 20 minutes*

Challenger - 2 oz 60 minutes
EKG - 1 oz 2 minutes

Mash @ 149 to 150 90 minutes

WLP002 / Starter

Secondary
10 g ground Ceylon Cinnamon
2-3 Vanilla beans
1 to 2 oz coffee bean tincture
70 gram Pasilla Pepper tincture
Click to expand...

So you used WLP002, I tend to use dry yeasts (budget wise they work for me) what dry yeast would you have opted for? A clean neutral strain like safale05 or a more fruity British strain like 04? Thoughts? Gonna buy everything later.
 
BarrelAgedForrest said:
So you used WLP002, I tend to use dry yeasts (budget wise they work for me) what dry yeast would you have opted for? A clean neutral strain like safale05 or a more fruity British strain like 04? Thoughts? Gonna buy everything later.
Click to expand...

I would go with S-04. I've used it a good bit and like how it's turned out for stouts and pales. As a matter of fact with my last batch (post#86 above) I did use S-04. I see that I didn't note that in the post. I pitched one pack dry with no rehydration and it went from 1084 to 1023. It was a 2.5 gallon batch, so you might want two packs. About two hours ago I removed the cacao nibs and peppers from the keg and sealed it off again. I don't have room in the fridge for it right now.
 
I went with with Mangrove Jack M15, 2 packs, we are brewing it right now, mashing out =) Pretastes are awesome with the wort. Will keep this posted!
 
It's currently been about 15 hours since pitch and it is stable at 18.9c and bubbling about every 15 seconds. We're in business!
 
I split the difference and mashed for 60 minutes at 152, the vorlaufed for some time and sparked. Then put in hot water(151)again and let it sit for 10 minutes and vorlaufed more. Boiled 7 gallons got down to about 5.25 or so. OG was 1.078
 
I used 3/4 cup of cacao nibs. So that was different the his as well. I will also mostlikely be adding bourbon and oak because why the hell not. Lol ;)
 
Nice. Well it's been a little over 50 hours and this morning (just now) I checked it, no bubbles, so I swirled it again and ramped up the temp to 68. It has a vigorous last couple days of fermenting but nothing super crazy, I don't know if it could have attenuated already, then again I did pitch two packets of yeast on a medium sized beer so maybe lol.
 
Going to keep an eye on this, I was going to use the Double W recipe on these forums as a starting point and then add the spices to see what I could come up with. The OG and FG for Double W are a little high for this but playing with the grain bill could bring that in line.
 
well the air lock has all but ceased in the last 15 hours. Of course i know that doesnt mean the yeast per say is done, but it seems this M15 strain Flocs out quick. Felt like checking it out and pulled a sample for fun and theres zero krausen and is fairly clear. gravity however is only 1.038... not cool. will open it in a week to add seasonings and check again. Hope it continues to lower i guess.
 
Did you cut the peppers open at all? What about the foam (the oil from the hot peppers would seem to kill it)? Do you guys think powdered or dried pepper would work better for preserving the foam?
 
merlinusm said:
Did you cut the peppers open at all? What about the foam (the oil from the hot peppers would seem to kill it)? Do you guys think powdered or dried pepper would work better for preserving the foam?
Click to expand...

The high alcohol and little oil means this beer doesn't really have a large, lasting, head (foam). Adding a little Cara-Pils/dextrine malt will help but it's not necessary.

I would cut up the pasilla peppers and make a vodka extraction like the others in this thread. If you use powdered, it will be extremely difficult to control spice level.
 
Thanks for the advice. I understand what you said about oils and high alcohol interfering with foam, but that doesn't seem to set either the actual Xocovesa or Harpoon's Thunder Foam back any. Why, do you think?
 
Last edited:
merlinusm said:
Thanks for the advice. I understand what you said about oils and high alcohol interfering with foam, but that doesn't seem to set either the actual Xocovesa or Harpoon's Thunder Foam back any. Why, do you think?
Click to expand...

I haven't made this but FWIW there's a great Brulosophy post http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/28/de...ous-beer-characteristics-exbeeriment-results/ about this from yesterday. It tested Carapils and showed no improvement.. The discussion section had a great chart/linked paper for info. Long story short, roasted barley and black patent malt should help head retention. Now, this recipe has quite a lot of those malts so I'm not exactly sure - I did notice that Stone does not list roasted barley and has chocolate malt, coffee Malt, and black patent instead. Also cacao nibs might help over the cocoa powder that everyone is using.
 
Here's my updated recipe for 10.5 Gallon (last year made 5G batch before Xmas, it was great).

I am fermenting half with WLP002 and another half with WLP007. may do slightly different additions to see differences in flavor.


Recipe: Xocoveza 10G 2016

Boil Size: 11.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.00 gal
Estimated Color: 40.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 52.3 IBUs
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

OG: 1.084
estimated FG: 1.017
estimated ABV: 8.9%

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
15.00 gal BW: Black Full from RO Water Water 1 -
5.00 g Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
5.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
3.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 4 -
12 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 36.9 %
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 30.8 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7 6.2 %
2 lbs Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 8 6.2 %
2 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 9 6.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (Briess) (1.7 SRM) Grain 10 4.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Chocolate (Briess) (350.0 SRM) Grain 11 4.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (Briess) (1.4 SRM) Grain 12 4.6 %
4.00 oz Northern Brewer [6.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 14 41.3 IBUs
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 15 11.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast 16 -
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 Yeast 17 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 32 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 40.62 qt of water at 167.2 F 152.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.53 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
8.0 oz Cocoa Nibs 7 days
12-14 oz (~6) Vanilla Beans, soaked in vodka 7 days
4 Pasilla peppers, cut in 1/2 inch pieces, soaked in vodka 7 days
1 Cinnamon Stick, cut in short pieces, soaked in vodka 7 days
36 fl oz Coffee (in keg)
300g of lactose sugar (secondary, adjust to taste)
 
Ok. Adding my two tinctures tonigjt. One is a teaspoon of nutmeg, 3 tsp of Cinnamon, a quarter of a pasilla pepper, 2 vanilla beans and like 3 ounces of vodka, not putting the pepper into the beer. Second tincture was about 2.5 ounces of vodka and a crap ton of French roast peets coffee beans. Not putting the beans in. Will decide to oak after it is kegged. Kegging will be next weekend. Will update with current gravity later this evening when home! Hopefully a tad lower then it was last week.
 
Well my beer seems to be done ferment wise it only dropped about another point to 1.034 in the last week. So it's about 5.8 to 6 percent. Was hoping it would go lower. however it is a sweet Stout and the lactose is adding at least 6 points as that can't ferment out so it's probably really more like 28 or 27. Taste wise it's tasting great. I think it's going to end up being my best beer I have made.
 
Pulled a sample, going in the keg tomorrow. Dude taste is on point. Nice and sweet and chocolatey and roasty with a hint of coffee. Nose smells like a cup of Mexican cocoa, not really spicey from the pepper just a very faint bite from it. Can't wait to get it carbed up!
 
phyllobeddo said:
Excellent news thus far!
Click to expand...

I just kegged (plus 6 bottles - total of 6G worth) the first half of my Xocoveza. This is the WLP007 batch (the other half is WLP002). Went from 1.084 all the way down to 1.010. Surprising with my grain bill, and mashed at 165!

Peppers, vanilla extracts, and cocoa nibs added already. Still to add lactose (a full 1 lb? maybe 0.5 lb and then see how it tastes), cinnamon (my wife is not a big fan of, so i need to be careful), nutmeg (I am not a big fan of it) and coffee (still cold-brewing). Will add later to keg, by taste.

Tasting the hydrometer sample (warm and not carbonated): already fairly complex bouquet. Can feel alcohol warmth, spices, especially peppers, roasted barley is a bit overwhelming - this will mellow out over time a bit, hopefully, and lactose and other spices are added.

Perhaps I should have gone with just half the roasted barley (I did 2 lbs for 11G-12G batch), but looking at my notes, last year's Xocoveza clone I brewed, was just 5G and had 1lb of roasted barley and it tasted fantastic in the end. My theory is that lactose balances out bitterness of the roasted barley.
 
Hands down the best beer I have ever made. It's slowly carbbing. Nailed a spiced winter Stout style. Will try the real thing in a few weeks and compare it with other people here to test it out taste wise. I am extremely happy and excited with this beer. Wish it would have turned out a bit stronger but alas it still smells and tastes wonderful! Great recipe!
 

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