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Stone Xocoveza Mocha Stout

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chrismtb

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I missed this thread when it was originally active, but it's an honor to see people so excited about this beer that they are trying to clone it. I'll help out a bit and chime in with a couple of tips. :)

The recipes in this thread are relatively close overall and could be really close with some improvements.

Make sure to measure your specialty ingredients by weight, not tbsp, sticks, peppers, or some other arbitrary unit. You can never dial in your additions and make it repeatable if you don't have accurate measurements. Vanilla beans are maybe the one exception if you have a consistent source. You probably already have a scale for weighing hops, so make use of it.

Consider going a bit more complex on the grain bill. I'm pretty sure Stone listed all of the grains somewhere without going into specifics, e.g. no L numbers on anything.

Be careful with that nutmeg, it's not meant to be one of the most obvious flavors in the mix.

Use some really good coffee - find a local roaster or learn to roast it yourself.

As an English-style base beer, wouldn't you like to emphasize that with some English yeast rather than a clean American yeast?
 

Sleepyemt

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I missed this thread when it was originally active, but it's an honor to see people so excited about this beer that they are trying to clone it. I'll help out a bit and chime in with a couple of tips. :)



The recipes in this thread are relatively close overall and could be really close with some improvements.



Make sure to measure your specialty ingredients by weight, not tbsp, sticks, peppers, or some other arbitrary unit. You can never dial in your additions and make it repeatable if you don't have accurate measurements. Vanilla beans are maybe the one exception if you have a consistent source. You probably already have a scale for weighing hops, so make use of it.



Consider going a bit more complex on the grain bill. I'm pretty sure Stone listed all of the grains somewhere without going into specifics, e.g. no L numbers on anything.



Be careful with that nutmeg, it's not meant to be one of the most obvious flavors in the mix.



Use some really good coffee - find a local roaster or learn to roast it yourself.



As an English-style base beer, wouldn't you like to emphasize that with some English yeast rather than a clean American yeast?

I take it your the winning recipe that this was Brewer off of? I'd love to hear more specifics?
 

KingRichard

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Chris,

Thanks for commenting on this thread. It's a really great beer! I'm going to assume that Stone doesn't want you handing out your original recipe to the world at large, so thanks for the tips!

Cheers!

Consider going a bit more complex on the grain bill. I'm pretty sure Stone listed all of the grains somewhere without going into specifics, e.g. no L numbers on anything.
Here's the ingredient list off of Stone's website.


IN THE MASH
U.S. Pale, Maris Otter Pale, Crystal, Black Patent, Coffee Malt & Chocolate Malt

IN THE BOIL
Challenger & East Kent Golding Hops

SPECIAL INGREDIENTS
Lactose, Flaked Oats, Coffee, Vanilla, Pasilla Peppers, Nutmeg, Cinnamon & Cocoa
 

jjf485

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Chris, so awesome to see you here! Thanks for your input on the recipes, I'm hoping to attempt part deux in the coming months with the new knowledge shared in this thread. Particularly, keeping the pepper seeds involved (I didn't get any heat at all, likely from removing them), using English yeast, and altering the grain bill with King Richard's recommendations from the Stone website (thank you, sir!). Any other tips on major difference-makers welcome.

If all goes well, I may try to split the batch during secondary and use some booze-soaked oak chunks to replicate the Extra Añejo version released this year. Was that aged in wine and tequila barrels separately and then blended, or transferred from one to another after a certain period of time?
 

chrismtb

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The Extra Anejo barrels were barrels that held red wine and then tequila prior to being used for the beer. If you wanted to reproduce that on a homebrew scale, you could age oak chips or cubes in red wine for a while, then switch them over to a very old tequila for a while, then add them to the beer.
 

jmitchell3

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Plan to brew this next week or two. Just picked up dried Pasilla chilis from a local grocery, cinnamon sticks and bourbon madagascar vanilla beans from costco. Plan to get the cocoa nibs from the LHBS. I'll record all my additions and procedure and let you all know how it goes!
 
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phyllobeddo

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Subscribing. Would like to hear more results. I want to brew this some time this year.
 

pdm1982

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I re-brewed this again a little over a week ago. I only made a few changes. I really just wanted to tweak the spices on it. I should note that I reduced the nutmeg to 1/8 tsp.
 

phyllobeddo

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I re-brewed this again a little over a week ago. I only made a few changes. I really just wanted to tweak the spices on it. I should note that I reduced the nutmeg to 1/8 tsp.
Thanks for the update. I am in research mode right now for a good starting recipe for this beer. I was even thinking of leaving out the nutmeg.
 

pdm1982

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This time around I just took the left hand milk stout recipe that's on this site and scaled it up to 8%. Probably not a clone of anything but it seems to be a solid base stout to experiment with. There's a lot of different flavors going on with the spices and I felt like I could dial those in better.
 

phyllobeddo

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This time around I just took the left hand milk stout recipe that's on this site and scaled it up to 8%. Probably not a clone of anything but it seems to be a solid base stout to experiment with. There's a lot of different flavors going on with the spices and I felt like I could dial those in better.
It's funny you say that. I brewed the LH milk stout clone from HBT a couple of weeks ago and was thinking of spicing it for a trial run. I didn't scale it up to make a big beer, though. :mug:
 

phyllobeddo

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Here's an attempt at a recipe using the ingredients that Stone lists.

2.5 gallon batch

Maris Otter 3lb
2 row 2lb
Crystal 60L 8 oz
Black Patent 8oz
Coffee Malt 5 oz
Chocolate Malt 4 oz or maybe the debittered Chocolate Malt?
Flaked Oats 4 oz
lactose - 6 oz boil 20 minutes
cocoa - 6 oz boil 10 minutes

Mash @ 150

1 oz Challenger 60 min.
.5 oz EKG 5 min.
39.7 IBU

S-04 yeast

Beersmith shows 1.082 OG. 8.7% ABV.

I haven't gotten to the ingredients for the secondary, but would probably go with a vodka tincture of a pasilla pepper, a vanilla bean, cinnamon, and nutmeg.

One cup or maybe less of a cold pressed coffee at bottling. I have some Yaucono beans to use.

Unsure if the percentages of the crystal and specialty malts are good or not.

Constructive comments and help are appreciated. I might brew this on Friday if I can get some coffee malt.
 
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Subscribed!

This sounds delicious. Has anyone done an extract recipe of this?

And when you say your adding the ingredients for secondary into vodka, I'm assuming this is for sanitation purposes, but is the whole tincture poured into secondary or is the vodka strained out and just the ingredients added?

Thanks for any and all help!
 

pdm1982

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I'm still trying to figure out the answer to that question myself. I've done it both ways. Adding all the ingredients along with the vodka to my secondary certainly had more flavor but I'm not sure all of those flavors were quite right. I got a slight vegetal flavor too (aging on peppers?). This time around I strained them and just added the vodka. So far, most of the flavors are pretty unnoticeable even though I used the same amount of ingredients both times.

The next time I brew this I may make 2 tinctures. One for the peppers and one with everything else. I'd add the other one and all of it's ingredients to the secondary to age for a week or 2. The tincture with the peppers, I'd strain and add the vodka as needed to get the desired amount of heat. I'm just spitballing here... I'd like to know how others are doing it.

I plan to do the coffee at bottling.
 

phyllobeddo

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Here's what I brewed to try a Pasilla Pepper and Madagascar vanilla bean tincture. I planned to add 4 or 5 grams of Ceylon cinnamon to it, but never got around to it. I bottled this today and the sample tasted very, very good. Can't wait to try it in a couple of weeks. It is similar to Xocoveza, even though there's no cinnamon or nutmeg or cold press coffee. I will do a side by side comparison at some point.

4.5 lb Rahr 2 row
8 oz Crystal 60L
8 oz Munich
5 oz Pale Chocolate Malt
4 oz Flaked Oats
3.5 oz Chocolate Malt
3 oz Coffee Malt
2 oz Flaked Barley
6 oz lactose to boil
4 oz 100% pure cocoa to boil (mixed with lactose)

10 g Magnum 60 min 26.3 IBU
14 g EKG 10 min 7.8 IBU

1 pack of Notty (next time I will use something like WLP005)

OG 1085
FG 1029

Vodka Tincture (soaked for about a week before adding to primary)
1 Madagascar Vanilla Bean cut into pieces
21 grams Pasilla Peppers cut into pieces

I didn't rack to secondary, I just added the vodka tincture to the primary and it sat on it for two weeks. I added all of it, vodka, bean pieces, pepper pieces, and the seeds. I was sick and could not bottle it last week. The extra week didn't hurt anything at all. I like more heat than the sample had and I would add maybe 35 grams of peppers next time or possibly add another pepper that has more heat. The addition of a different pepper might mess it up, so forget that idea. Keep the same pepper. The Pasilla has a very nice flavor, just not a lot of heat. I was looking for Westbrook Mexican Cake heat, but that's OK. This looks to be an outstanding spiced stout. This is SO worth brewing again.....as long as the initial sample holds true.

I have yet to try the recipe that I posted earlier in this thread (#53). I might just build off of this one a bit, or brew them both.
 

Zrab11

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Anyone brewed any of these recipes recently.?

Looking to do this for a Friends wedding.
 

GParkins

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So my wife is starting to get a little squirrely every time she walks past the fridge that houses our last bottle of Xocoveza. I can't keep a close enough eye on it, and I have trust issues with my wife when the homebrew starts running low, so I'll have to try and make my own.

Kidding aside, she really likes that beer. After a couple of years of various 5-gallon batches, I have a couple of recipes that are reliable go-to fridge stockers. I also just started milling my own grain, and have seen a quantum jump in my brewhouse efficiency, so I think I'm ready to tackle a "big" beer like this.

I set up a vodka-based tincture today in anticipation of brewing next weekend, and being ready to bottle in three weeks. I added two chopped dried Pasilla peppers, 4 oz. cocoa nibs, 3 vanilla beans, 3 cinnamon sticks, and a little over 1 tsp. of ground nutmeg. It's less nutmeg than in the OP recipe, but I'm not a huge fan of the flavor. Everything went into a Mason jar and got covered with vodka, plus about 1" over the ingredients.

It's my plan to brew and ferment as usual, and then to add increments of the tincture liquid and cold coffee until 'tis enough. I'm going to use that last bottle of Xocoveza as a benchmark flavor when I start adding the flavored vodka and coffee.
 

phyllobeddo

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Here’s my latest recipe. It’s in the primary right now. Need to add the tinctures at some point.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb Maris Otter 2
2.5 lb 2 row
Crystal 70/80 8 oz
Black Patent 8 oz
Pale Chocolate 4 oz
Flaked Oats 4 oz
Cara foam 4 oz
Coffee Malt 3 oz

Lactose - 6 oz (boil 10 minutes)
Cocoa - 4 oz (boil 10 minutes) I mixed them together and then just slowly added to the boil.

Challenger - 28 g 60 minutes - 33.9 IBU
EKG - 14 g 2 minutes - 1 IBU

WLP002 (starter)
Mash @ 150 for 75 minutes (Ended up mashing for 105 minutes)

OG 1.088

Tincture 1
One vanilla bean cut into pieces
One ounce whole coffee beans (I used what I had which was Dunkin Donuts whole beans and it took six weeks for it to smell worth using. I would definitely try a more premium bean next time)

Tincture 2
Two vanilla beans cut into pieces
35 grams Pasilla peppers cut into pieces
Enough vodka to cover
 
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phyllobeddo

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Here’s my latest recipe. It’s in the primary right now. Need to add the tinctures at some point.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb Maris Otter 2
2.5 lb 2 row
Crystal 70/80 8 oz
Black Patent 8 oz
Pale Chocolate 4 oz
Flaked Oats 4 oz
Cara foam 4 oz
Coffee Malt 3 oz

Lactose - 6 oz (boil 10 minutes)
Cocoa - 4 oz (boil 10 minutes) I mixed them together and then just slowly added to the boil.

Challenger - 28 g 60 minutes - 33.9 IBU
EKG - 14 g 2 minutes - 1 IBU

WLP002 (starter)
Mash @ 150 for 75 minutes (Ended up mashing for 105 minutes)

OG 1.088

Tincture 1
One vanilla bean cut into pieces
One ounce whole coffee beans (I used what I had which was Dunkin Donuts whole beans and it took six weeks for it to smell worth using. I would definitely try a more premium bean next time)

Tincture 2
Two vanilla beans cut into pieces
35 grams Pasilla peppers cut into pieces
Enough vodka to cover
*edit - corrected grain list*
 

thornton33

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Here's an attempt at a recipe using the ingredients that Stone lists.

2.5 gallon batch

Maris Otter 3lb
2 row 2lb
Crystal 60L 8 oz
Black Patent 8oz
Coffee Malt 5 oz
Chocolate Malt 4 oz or maybe the debittered Chocolate Malt?
Flaked Oats 4 oz
lactose - 6 oz boil 20 minutes
cocoa - 6 oz boil 10 minutes

Mash @ 150

1 oz Challenger 60 min.
.5 oz EKG 5 min.
39.7 IBU

S-04 yeast

Beersmith shows 1.082 OG. 8.7% ABV.

I haven't gotten to the ingredients for the secondary, but would probably go with a vodka tincture of a pasilla pepper, a vanilla bean, cinnamon, and nutmeg.

One cup or maybe less of a cold pressed coffee at bottling. I have some Yaucono beans to use.

Unsure if the percentages of the crystal and specialty malts are good or not.

Constructive comments and help are appreciated. I might brew this on Friday if I can get some coffee malt.
How did this turn out?
 

phyllobeddo

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And how did this turn out compared to the real thing?
The sample tasted good. I've added both tinctures as of yesterday and plan ago bottle this weekend, probably Sunday. The previous recipe tasted really, really good and is worth brewing again.
 

MaxSwift

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Ok so the tinctures are just to sanitize and draw out the flavor? But when you add it to the secondary you are adding the entire contents liquid and all?

Also your latest recipe (more stone) VS the one brewed first (original) we are still waiting on the results? Well which would you consider tasted more like the original. Personally I would like to do both LOL

Also the yeast Chris mentioned that it was more english than american thoughts?
 

phyllobeddo

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Ok so the tinctures are just to sanitize and draw out the flavor? But when you add it to the secondary you are adding the entire contents liquid and all?

Also your latest recipe (more stone) VS the one brewed first (original) we are still waiting on the results? Well which would you consider tasted more like the original. Personally I would like to do both LOL

Also the yeast Chris mentioned that it was more english than american thoughts?
Tinctures? Yes and yes. I dump it all with no worries.
Results pending? Yes. Still waiting on the results of the More Stone. (I like that name....More Stone) However, it's current name is Shock A Geezer. I plan to bottle it Sunday. I will taste a sample tomorrow or possibly tonight. The coffee bean tincture has only been in there since Wednesday. Well, I guess it is a good time to taste it then. I do hope that More Stone tastes closer to Xocoveza. Original Stone tasted kind of similar, I would say. I really enjoyed the taste of the Pasilla peppers in it. First Stone had no cinnamon and no nutmeg. I don't care for nutmeg, so Shock A Geezer has none either. It does have cinnamon, though. Can't wait to find out what it's going to taste like in a couple of weeks after carbing up. I plan to bottle this batch and not keg it.

More English than American? My guess would be that Chris meant that there needed to be more flavor and esters from an English strain versus what you would have with a clean fermenting American yeast like 001 or 05.

Hope that helps. I also hope that Shock A Geezer tastes frickin awesome! HAHA.

I'll update progress, no worries.

Also, many thanks to the OP and all the people who have updated this thread.
 

phyllobeddo

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The results are in and they are great so far. The sample smells like Xocoveza and the sample seems close. There's more pepper bite in my version and I wanted it that way. There's no nutmeg and that's by my design. Lots of chocolate and coffee smells and flavor. A hint of vanilla. Seems like there would be more vanilla, but not so far. I'll find out more in a couple of weeks after the bottles carbonate. My wife was impressed as was I.

I have a friend that should have a real Xocoveza left. I'll give him a bottle of this to compare with and find out what he thinks and post results.

Here's the recipe.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb Maris Otter
2.5 lb Rahr 2 row
8 oz Crystal 70/80
8 oz Black Patent
4 oz Pale Chocolate
4 oz Flaked Oats
4 oz Cara foam
3 oz Coffee Malt

Lactose - 6 oz boil 20 minutes
Nestle Cocoa Powder - 4 oz boil 20 minutes

Challenger - 28 g 60 minutes - 55 IBU
EKG - 14 g 2 minutes - 1 IBU

Mashed @ 149 for 105 minutes (I got busy and went past 75 minutes)

WLP002 / Starter

Fermented @ 66 degrees for about 48 hours and then moved it to room temp for remaining 28 days. I meant to leave it @ 66 for a week or two but that didn’t happen and it didn’t hurt either.

“Secondary”

***I don’t “secondary,” I just throw it in the primary. :)

5 grams ground Ceylon cinnamon (added 7 days before bottling along with Tincture 2)

Tincture 1 (added to primary four days before bottling)
1 vanilla bean cut into pieces
1 oz Dunkin Donuts whole beans (no, I didn’t crush them)
Enough to vodka to cover
This one soaked for about six weeks before it smelled good enough to be used. I would use some higher end beans next time. The time after that I might roughly grind them.

Tincture 2 (added to primary seven days before bottling)
2 vanilla beans cut into pieces
35 grams Pasilla peppers cut into pieces
Enough vodka to cover
This one soaked for about a month.

OG 1.088
FG 1.025
8.27% ABV (not including a few ounces of vodka :) )

Bottled 22 12 oz and two 330ml bottles

It was a lot of work, but if the taste holds up then this one is a winner for sure.
 

MaxSwift

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can not wait for the first bottle opening !!! thankfully I have two more beers to brew before this one. Scaling this up to 5 gallons atm
 

phyllobeddo

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So in a nut shell, this beer turned out great! Great reviews and I like a lot as well. Huge chocolate nose and a dark chocolate taste. Great coffee flavor. I love the complexity of the taste of Pasilla peppers and I added enough to give the beer a nice pepper bite. Definitely more than Xocoveza. I was always disappointed in the lack of bite from Xoc so I bumped mine up. Hints of cinnamon round it out. Since the chocolate comes through so much, I will bump it down next time I brew this. Probably one to two ounces of cocoa powder instead of four. Alternately, I would use cacao nibs. No change in hops or yeast. They worked out well, also. I'm very happy with this one.

Edit: One of my friends rated Xocoveza 4.5 and this beer 4.25. :)
 

Zrab11

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can not wait for the first bottle opening !!! thankfully I have two more beers to brew before this one. Scaling this up to 5 gallons atm
Were you able to scale this to 5gallons.. Would love to see that recipe!
 

alexsurf7

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Brewed this recipe, I would add more coffee and only one Pasilla pepper. 2x peppers was too strong. Great recipe!
 

phyllobeddo

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So for 5 gallons just double??
Yeah, just double it. Here ya go…..

5 gallon batch

8 lb Maris Otter
5 lb Rahr 2 row
1 lb Crystal 70/80*
1 lb Black Patent
8 oz Pale Chocolate
8 oz Flaked Oats
8 oz Cara foam or Cara-Pils
6 oz Coffee Malt

Lactose - 12oz boil 20 minutes
Nestle Cocoa Powder - 8 oz boil 20 minutes*

Challenger - 2 oz 60 minutes
EKG - 1 oz 2 minutes

Mash @ 149 to 150 90 minutes

WLP002 / Starter

Secondary
10 g ground Ceylon Cinnamon
2-3 Vanilla beans
1 to 2 oz coffee bean tincture
70 gram Pasilla Pepper tincture
 

jmitchell3

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Tinctures? Yes and yes. I dump it all with no worries.

Results pending? Yes. Still waiting on the results of the More Stone. (I like that name....More Stone) However, it's current name is Shock A Geezer. I plan to bottle it Sunday. I will taste a sample tomorrow or possibly tonight. The coffee bean tincture has only been in there since Wednesday. Well, I guess it is a good time to taste it then. I do hope that More Stone tastes closer to Xocoveza. Original Stone tasted kind of similar, I would say. I really enjoyed the taste of the Pasilla peppers in it. First Stone had no cinnamon and no nutmeg. I don't care for nutmeg, so Shock A Geezer has none either. It does have cinnamon, though. Can't wait to find out what it's going to taste like in a couple of weeks after carbing up. I plan to bottle this batch and not keg it.



More English than American? My guess would be that Chris meant that there needed to be more flavor and esters from an English strain versus what you would have with a clean fermenting American yeast like 001 or 05.



Hope that helps. I also hope that Shock A Geezer tastes frickin awesome! HAHA.



I'll update progress, no worries.



Also, many thanks to the OP and all the people who have updated this thread.

Funny, I read it as suggesting folks use dry English 005....my understanding is that is stones house yeast so it makes sense. I think people were using 001, but 002 wouldn't dry it out enough....
 

GParkins

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I brewed a batch. I think I hit the flavor spot on, but it's nowhere "big" enough. Without oxygenating, 8+ ABV means I'm just pissing in the wind.

To make a tincture, I put the cocoa nibs, 3 vanilla beans, 2 dried pasilla peppers, 2 cinnamon sticks, and nutmeg into a quart mason jar and filled it with vodka. I covered it with a Ball canning lid and it sat unrefrigerated for close to three months. When I bottled, I ran the tincture through a chinois to filter the solids, and added the liquid to the bottling bucket after I added the priming sugar and siphoned out the carboy. I reserved one bottle of Xoco, and cracked it open as I added the tincture to compare flavors. I lowered the amount of nutmeg due to personal preference. I also forgot to add the ground coffee.

I did build a one-quart starter, using both Safale packets. It went into a DME wort that I put on a stir plate. Nothing wrong with the starter, just not enough o2 in the wort when I pitched. The attached screenshot gets confusing with the tincture ingredients. There is 1 Whirlfloc tablet, 2 dried peppers, 3 vanilla beans, and 2 cinnamon sticks.

I will definitely make this again, but not until i can properly oxygenate. I would probably add another pepper or two to the tincture, and also add a handful of coffee beans. I bottled it in early August, and probably won't refrigerate it until family shows up in late November.

Screen Shot 2016-09-11 at 12.30.24 PM.png
 

phyllobeddo

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Funny, I read it as suggesting folks use dry English 005....my understanding is that is stones house yeast so it makes sense. I think people were using 001, but 002 wouldn't dry it out enough....
That's a definite possibility. That was just my take on what I had read at that moment in time.

On a side note, having used cacao nibs on other batches, I would substitute cacao nibs for cocoa powder on the next batch of this one. And 005 would be worth a shot as well. :mug:

So many recipes and so many recipe tweaks......so little time. :)
 
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