Stone Xocoveza Mocha Stout

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toddo97

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I picked up some amylase yesterday for stuck fermentations. Have you ever used right at yeast pitch or just if you run into stuck gravity?
 

InspectorJon

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This is the only time I’ve used it. Some folks use it in the mash to get good conversation. I don’t think anyone uses it to pitch along with yeast. Using it on wort is to fix some mistake as far as I can see.
 

InspectorJon

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Into 3 gallons of stout:
3 oz roasted cocao nibs
12 grams Indonesian cinnamon stick, crushed
8 g Medium roast Mandailing coffee, course crush
15 g Dry ancho chili, coarsely shredded - no seeds
5 g Dry guajillo, chili coarsely shredded - no seeds
3 weeks in 50/50 everclear & water, enough to cover everything.

I'll add vanilla extract to taste when I bottle. Vanilla beans have gotten so expensive.
Bottled this Monday. The flavor was outstanding. FG ended up 1.032. That is 10 to 11.5% ABV depending on what calculator you use. Regarding the amount of vanilla, I tasted the gravity sample that had no vanilla in it yet and it was really good. The pepper flavor was there with just a hint of heat at the end but you really had to look for it. I think the Ancho and Guajillo pepper combo was good. Those are the peppers that are easily available around here. I could not find any dried Pasilla peppers. I had bottled half the beer before I realized I had not added the vanilla yet. o_O So now I have a split batch. I added McCormick organic pure vanilla extract a little at a time and tasted. I ended up putting 5 teaspoons of extract into 1.5 gallons of beer. This gave it a nice vanilla presence but it was not overwhelming at all. Now I wait a month to see how it all melds together.

After I poured the tincture into the wort I put the peppers and other flavorings in small hop bags to suspend in the wort using 6LB mono fish line. Seemed to work pretty well but it was a pain to get out of a small neck fermenter.
IMG_4070.jpg
 

toddo97

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Sounds great! I'm planning on adding toasted coconut to half to see how that goes. I think I'm all set on ingredients except peppers--need to run by the international market and see what they've got.
 

InspectorJon

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rickyrich

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Has anyone else made the OP recipe? It looks pretty solid although I don't think I would use the 1lb of Lactose right off the bat. I would probably cut that in half and see how that would be first but it could be right on.
Anyone have any comments on this recipe?
I just brewed a stout (different recipe) and was inspired by this post to incorporate the flavor/spice profile. I went cacao powder at flame out and then added 4 oz of cacao nibs to primary. A few days later I added the cinnamon sticks, vanilla beans, chili peppers, and nutmeg. I then cold crashed and added 2 oz of Hawaiian whole coffee beans for 24 hrs. I just kegged it this afternoon. OMG! The nose is dead on Xocoveza. I was seriously blown away. I read some of the comments about the chili peppers smelling or tasting like licorice. I def smelled the same thing when I was making my tincture.

The aroma is def dead on Xocoveza though. I've pretty much been obsessed with this beer since Christmas because I got to try Insurgente's version, and I liked it more than Stone. It had more heat and just a "sharper" spice profile, for lack of a better word.

I haven't tasted a sample of mine yet but I have high hopes. The beer looks and SMELLS incredible! Thank you guys for all the details on your experimentation with this recipe!! I am srsly trippin out that I got this nose on the first crack. Great recipe!

Yes. I used a full pound of lactose at 10 mins. I will report back later with a picture/comments after tasting.
 
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Tyler B

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Anyone brew this lately? Any updates from people who have brewed it in the past? I've followed this thread for a couple of years now and I'm finally ready to give it a try. I'll probably brew it in the next month so I'll share my results.

Regarding the peppers, I was able to purchase both anchos (dried poblano peppers) and pasillas (dried chilaca peppers) for my tincture. They are very clearly different peppers. Similar for sure, but they have different shapes, size, appearance, taste, smell, etc. Both very raisiny... Could be a contributor to the licorice taste?

That's all for now, just hoping to get this thread fired back up.
 

InspectorJon

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The stout I made above turned out really good. Mash lower and oxygenate well to get better attenuation. FG or 1.025-35 or higher is not a bad thing for this kind of stout though. I'd pay more attention to the flavorings than the grains I used. It was not really a Xocoveza recipe. To emulate Xocoveza I would add some more nutmeg. I just bought some Xocoveza a couple weeks ago. Outstanding beer. Comparing the two, Xocoveza definitely has more nutmeg. I have 7 of my Mexican Mocha Stout left, going on a year now. I think I have to take another run at this soon.
 

Tyler B

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Made my tinctures today.

The first contained:
2 pasilla peppers (18g)
2 ancho peppers (26g)
1 mulato pepper (15g)
6 cinnamon sticks (21g)
3 vanilla beans
Enough vodka to cover

The second tincture for extra spice/heat:
Several red japones chilis (10.5g)
Enough vodka to cover

I'll let these marinate for a few weeks until after I brew and I'm ready for secondary.
 

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Tyler B

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Before making the tinctures, I realized there are countless varieties of peppers and a couple different kinds of cinnamon for me to choose from. Here are my notes and observations regarding those.

Pasilla peppers are long and thin, dark colored with a slight greenish hue. They have more of a leathery raisiny taste and smell, sort of clean and dry. Very little spice to me personally (but I like really spicy food).

Anchos, while similar, are shorter, more round, and a deep dark color with a reddish hue. They taste and smell a bit more like tobacco with a fruiter taste. Again, very little heat.

The mulatos were similar in shape to the anchos but more similar in color to the pasillas. Their flavor and smell was more unique in that it was sweeter, spcier, and more rich. It tasted and smelled the best, plus it had a little extra heat (which the other two lacked) so I decided to add one to the mix.

Japones chilis were by far the spiciest so I kept them separate in their own tincture so as not to overwhelm the beer with heat. These little suckers were a bright red color and packed a lot of heat with very little to offer in the flavor/smell department. This will only be added little by little if necessary.

I chose the small orangeish tan colored cinnamon sticks that came in a little glass spice bottle from the supermarket. They were cleaner in appearance than the giant bark covered cinnamon sticks that are slightly smaller than my arm, and I felt more comfortable addind those to the tincture.

I might add a little of the other giant sized cinnamon to the boil (flame out) just in case it needs a little sanitization. Haven't decided about this.
 

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Tyler B

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I just smelled the main xoco tincture I made 5 days ago. Wow! It's bringing back memories and getting me excited for this beer. Smells amazing! So much Mexican spiced goodness. Can't wait to see/smell/taste what its like after coffee, cacao, and nutmeg (and beer) are added. Still undecided on how much nutmeg to add as the recipes have a lot of variety in them.

I'm brewing a small beer with friends this weekend. I'll probably use the yeast cake from that brew session for this beer.
 

Jag75

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I have never tried this beer before. I am waiting for some to be delivered to a local liquor store . I went to Bakersfield a week or so ago and couldnt find it anywhere. I really wanna try this
 

Jag75

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I do brew choc milk stouts which I like . I wouldn't mind brewing this but I'd like to try it first .
 

Tyler B

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I love big stouts, spicy food, Mexican mochas and the real one is like all of those wrapped into one.

The heat is minimal but pleasant, the vanilla and cinnamon make it warm and rich, the peppers, coffee, and chocolate give it a unique but familiar dessert/coffee sort of flavor and the touch of sweetness rounds off the edges and ties it all together.

It's definitely one of my favorites, but probably not for everyone. I love the style and all of the flavors so it works for me. Stone did a one time (I think) chai spiced stout that I really liked. Some day I think I'll take what I learn from this and apply it in an attempt to brew that.

Regardless, I'll continue to update throughout the brew process on this one for anyone who might be interested.
 

Tyler B

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Just brewed this. I'll post my recipe later, but initial tastes are very promising.

I had to adjust recipe based on grain and hop availability. I decided to go with 1/2 tsp of fresh ground nutmeg and I'm not sure it's enough (at least after tasting a sample of hopped wort just before adding yeast). May add more later. I added cacoa, coffee, cinnamon, and nutmeg all either at the end of the boil or at flameout. Can't wait to taste this with the vanilla and chilis added to the mix.

Also, the S-04 didn't waste anytime with this. Airlock activity just a few hours after pitching.
 

Tyler B

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Oh my geezus! This stuff took off like crazy. Activity in the airlock about 4 hours after pitching dry yeast directly to wort. The krausen is occupying about 2 gallons of headspace and while it's showing signs of slowing down, its still bubbling like crazy.
 

Tyler B

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OK, so I kegged this a little over a week ago after about 2 weeks in primary and 2 weeks in secondary. I ended up adding the full teaspoon of nutmeg (half at the end of the boil and half in secondary). Same with the Lactose. I don't have my keezer build completed yet, so the beer is sitting safely in a keg where I can't get to it.

I bottled four beers that didn't fit into the keg and initial tastes, while admittedly too young, were a little harsh, undercarbed, and perhaps a bit too spicy. I never ended up using my spice/heat chili tincture because the dried Mexican chilis and cinnamon that I used provided plenty of heat.

But the most recent taste... Wow! This is going to be a good one. I'm not sure if it's cloned but it is a very good beer. Shaping up to be one of the best beers I've ever made for sure. Now I just need to wait for my faucets to arrive so I can build the keezer and start serving this delicious brew. I'll post my final recipe when I get around to it.
 

InspectorJon

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But the most recent taste... Wow! This is going to be a good one. I'm not sure if it's cloned but it is a very good beer. Shaping up to be one of the best beers I've ever made for sure. Now I just need to wait for my faucets to arrive so I can build the keezer and start serving this delicious brew. I'll post my final recipe when I get around to it.
How is this going?
 

Tyler B

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Sorry... I've been procrastinating with this one.

The beer was amazingly delicious. Definitely one of the best I've ever brewed. It was probably a touch more spicy than I would have liked, but still awesome. Everything else was spot on for me. Lots of friends (two who own breweries) tasted and said they wouldn't change anything about it. Several said it reminded them of the holidays and desserts. My wife and I loved it and we actually pulled a couple bottles off the keg and set aside. Drank one to kick off our two week Lockdown quarantine. We have one left.

I will, without question, brew this again and will change VERY little from what I did.

Enjoy a pic while I work on posting my recipe.
 

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Tyler B

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Here was my recipe. Please note my efficiency sucks so I adjusted my grains and Lactose to give me the right starting and finishing gravity.

OG 1.089
FG 1.027

Maris Otter Pale 46.1%
Pale 2-row 27.6%
Munich Light 2.8%
CaraMunich III 4.6%
Chocolate malt 6.4%
Roasted Barley 3.2%
Flaked Oats 2.3%
Carafoam 2.3%

Mash at 65-66C for 90 mins
Boil for 60 mins

50g Perle (60 mins)
115 g Cacoa nibs (15 mins)
Yeast nutrient (10 mins)
1 tab Whirlfloc (10 mins)
0.5 kg Lactose (10 mins) 4.6%
25g East Kent Golding (5 mins)
55 g coarse ground espresso beans (0 mins)
10 g Cinnamon (0 mins)
1 tsp fresh ground nutmeg (0 mins)

S-04 yeast (direct pitch, no rehydration) shake like crazy for oxygen

Transferred to secondary after 2 weeks and added everything from tincture (spices and alcohol). Removed spices after 1 day of contact.

Kegged after a little less than 2 weeks in secondary. Left in keg for another month or so before starting to drink.

Tincture recipe made about two weeks before brew day (same as previous post):
21 g Cinnamon
3 Vanilla beans
18 g dried Pasilla chilis
26 g dried Ancho chilis
15 g dried Mulato chilis
Enough vodka to cover

Next time I'll probably use 3/4 as much chili and cinnamon throughout recipe. I intentionally shot for more spice this time because I always wanted to try Xocoveza with a bit more spice. I've tried it, it was good. No regrets. Next time though I'll reduce it just a touch.
 

Tyler B

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Bumping this thread because I made another tincture today. Gearing up to brew in a week or two and wanted to remind others how awesome this beer is and how wonderful it is to have during the holidays.
 

phyllobeddo

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Bumping this thread because I made another tincture today. Gearing up to brew in a week or two and wanted to remind others how awesome this beer is and how wonderful it is to have during the holidays.
Thanks for the reminder! This is a great recipe. I believe it's time to revisit this one as I have enough Maris Otter in stock to brew this. I think I need cacao nibs and vanilla beans, though.

Also, Xocoveza 2020 should be out soon here in Alabama if it's not already.
 

glenm

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Bumping this thread because I made another tincture today. Gearing up to brew in a week or two and wanted to remind others how awesome this beer is and how wonderful it is to have during the holidays.
This is a great beer. I made my third Hot Chocolate Stout a year ago using as close as I could get to this recipe. In August I uncovered a half-full sixtel, it is still seriously awesome. I didn't actually use real vanilla beans, I had a bunch of "food industry grade" vanilla extract lying around (and being geared to the food industry, it was a large container!) and used some of that at kegging.
 

PearlJam

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I have this on my list to brew.

I don't have access to pasilla chilli, only in powder form. Is there other chillis that can be recommended or would the powder do the job? If the powder is fine, how much should I use as substitute?
 

rickyrich

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I have this on my list to brew.

I don't have access to pasilla chilli, only in powder form. Is there other chillis that can be recommended or would the powder do the job? If the powder is fine, how much should I use as substitute?
The pasilla chiles don't add much heat at all. It's very subtle. I've even tried to add more than the recipe calls for and they didn't add that much of a boost. I've had the version from Insurgente and it was much better (heavier spice profile, more heat). I think you can use whatever you want and be fine. The next time I make it I will add a variety of them. Hope that helps!
 

InspectorJon

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I have this on my list to brew.

I don't have access to pasilla chilli, only in powder form. Is there other chillis that can be recommended or would the powder do the job? If the powder is fine, how much should I use as substitute?
Ancho chili peppers would be a close substitute. Not particularly hot and they have a bit of the raisin thing going on.
 

Craiginthecorn

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I just brewed this for the first time. I reduced the chilies from 2 to 1-1/2, scraping out the seeds. It still had obvious heat, at least in the tincture. In the beer, it's obviously going to be less noticable, but it's still enough for me. The cinnamon is the dominant flavor. Due to a scaling issue that I didn't notice in time, I used twice as many cacao nibs. They were added in the mash. I think it was a fortunate mistake.

It's quite delicious, even though I blundered with the quantity of water I added and thus ended up with a lower OG 7.5% ABV beer. I used Denny's Favorite 1450 yeast, which should help give it an appropriate amount of body. It's sitting on CO2, just to get it up to 1.2 volumes to serve on nitro.
 

PearlJam

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I am thinking of freezing a habanero and then add half of it in the fermenter (I do 2.5g batches) for the last 4 days. Does this seem ok to start with?

Rather too little than too much
 

InspectorJon

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Habaneros a quite hot. If you make a tincture with the peppers you can add it to taste at packaging time. Add a little and taste until you like it. If you put the pepper in the fermenter and it's too hot there is really no going back. It will age out to some extent but that takes a long time.
 

Kjokkakim

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I haven't done this myself, but this or a similar is on the to-do-list.

Linking to a recipe i consider, mostly as a reminder for myself, but great if anybody find it useful :)
 

mashpaddled

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I don't think habanero will get what you want in this beer. Habaneros are citrusy and far more spicy than the other peppers used. Ancho, pasilla, etc. are less hot and when dried develop those darker fruit, raisin, etc. flavors. You can use a lot more of them for more flavor impact to get the same amount of heat as a small amount of habanero.
 
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