Stone Xocoveza Mocha Stout

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Schwayzedizzle

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Ill be brewing this in a few days and pretty stoked! This will be my first stout and first time using UK yeast. I ordered wlp002 but given my lactose addition im afraid this will be too sweet for my taste.

My plan is to pitch a wlp002 starter, then let it get going a few days before pitching ~half a packet of us-05. This sems rational to me, are there any reasons I shouldent?

Also, any suggestions on my grain bill? Will this be too harsh?

Recipe (preliminary)

5lb 2 row
5lb marris otter
1 - 1.5lb flaked/steelcut oats
.5 lb crystal 40L
1 lb crystal 60L
1lb coffee malt
1lb pale chocolate malt
1lb black patent
1lb lactose
Light DME as needed for target gravity

Looking to collect 5.5 gal

Wlp002 + us-05

1oz challenger 60min
1oz kent goldi gs 60min

Secondary additions:

Cocoa nibs - they seem to be the consensus over a cocoa powder boil addition. I am concerned the nibs oil content vs powder would affect head retention though.

Vodka tincture with pastillo peppers, cinnamon, nutmeg. Will toss in liquid with solids in mesh bag.

Cold brew coffee (quality beans)

Ill be going out of town a few days after brewing so its gonna sit in primary about 4 weeks.

Any tips are appreciated!
 

TravelingLight

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I love Xoco. I like to refer to it as Mexican Cake's cooler uncle.

I did a mini vertical of Xocos with some buddies the other week. We did side-by-sides with '14, '15, and '16. Oddly enough, 2014 and 2016 tasted identical (despite the fact that the 16 was fresh and the 14 was, well, two years old). The 2015 was noticeably different, it was still good, but we all agreed that not only was 14 and 16 identical, they were much better than 2015. Anyone know if the recipe was tweaked in 2015 and went back to the OG recipe in 2016?
 

BarrelAgedForrest

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So thoroughly overjoyed with how Xocamaybe turned out, just like i like my stouts, so dark the light i use to find addresses at night cant even penetrate them! The carbing is coming along great! Its really letting all the depth of aroma come out. The spices come out nicely on initial pour the pepper itself really comes through as it warms up the winter spices and chocalte come out. the coffee is off in the back somewhere lol. taste wise its tasting wonderful, thick and deep. Spices and chocolate first, hints of vanilla with roast and then coffee for a split second and a tiny hint of the spicy pepper. Hands down with out a doubt the best beer i have made yet out of my 5 i have made. Also bonus points Kim got me an 11 gallon kettle this last weekend! Cant wait to do my own full boil on my own gear and not a friends!

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BarrelAgedForrest

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Only getting better now that it is carbonated all the way. On to the next brew. I have 30 lbs of grain in the room ready to rock and roll in the am
 

Cedar1234

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Very much interested in doing this recipe. My question to any is what you think of this. My parents gave me this chocolate cocoa product from. Mexico this year and my Mexican chef friends say it's very good to make mole, and amazing hot chocolate with. So I of course want to add it to this beer. I have 400 grams roughly of it and I'm unsure if it'll have enough flavor to do a whole 10 gallon batch which I wanna do. Or if I shoukd do 5 gallons with this and 5 gallons the other way mentioned in this post? (10 gallon batch split before boil likely) I just don't want the flavour of this to be lost in 10 gallons because it's so go. And also wouldn't want it to strong in 5 gallon and have been able to do 10... Either way can't wait to try this out since I've never had this beer, and it's not common at all in Canada.

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babaganuj

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Very much interested in doing this recipe. My question to any is what you think of this. My parents gave me this chocolate cocoa product from. Mexico this year and my Mexican chef friends say it's very good to make mole, and amazing hot chocolate with. So I of course want to add it to this beer. I have 400 grams roughly of it and I'm unsure if it'll have enough flavor to do a whole 10 gallon batch which I wanna do. Or if I shoukd do 5 gallons with this and 5 gallons the other way mentioned in this post? (10 gallon batch split before boil likely) I just don't want the flavour of this to be lost in 10 gallons because it's so go. And also wouldn't want it to strong in 5 gallon and have been able to do 10... Either way can't wait to try this out since I've never had this beer, and it's not common at all in Canada.
The ingredients listed on the package are cocoa, cinnamon, and sugar. I wouldn't use it to brew with. First, you don't know the proportions of those ingredients. Second, the sugar will dry it out and that's likely not something you want to do (and you don't know how much sugar you're adding). Third, if it's good on its own, use it in hot chocolate or mole!
 

Cedar1234

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I am somewhat okay with the slightly drying out of it I don't think it's gonna bee too much of a difference. 400 grams roughly there. And about half is added sugar. 200g additional sugar tho high, I think in 10 gallon batch wouldn't be too excessive. I really am interested in how this works on a brew and this does seem the best style to stand up to it. I do plan on doing a side by side comparison as well..
 

actech

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I brewed the following using ingredients on hand. I kegged it last week after a month in the primary.

2.5 gallon batch

6 lb Maris Otter 2 row
8 oz Crystal 120
4 oz Black Patent
4 oz Roasted Barley
4 oz Pale Chocolate
4 oz Flaked Oats
3 oz Cara-Pils
3 oz Coffee Malt

55.6 IBU w/70 minute boil
15 g Challenger 60 min
9.2 g Magnum 60 min
12.2 g Fuggles 2 min

Added at kegging:
5 oz lactose and 40 grams corn sugar microwaved in 8 oz water for about six minutes
1/2 oz coffee extract from an espresso pod
1 oz vanilla extract
1/2 oz Pasilla pepper extract from tincture
30 g Pasilla peppers from tincture
2.5 oz toasted cacao nib tincture
5 g ground Ceylon cinnamon

I'll remove the cacao nibs and peppers in a week or two. I haven't decided on how long to leave them in there.
Just sampled this recipe after 3 weeks in bottle. Very little head but carb'd as far as mouthfeel goes. Awesome recipe phyllo! pepper bite great. Thought the cinnamon was too strong on hydro sample at bottling but perfect now. Got a 6 stuck away in basement to see after months how it is. :rockin:
 

phyllobeddo

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Just sampled this recipe after 3 weeks in bottle. Very little head but carb'd as far as mouthfeel goes. Awesome recipe phyllo! pepper bite great. Thought the cinnamon was too strong on hydro sample at bottling but perfect now. Got a 6 stuck away in basement to see after months how it is. :rockin:
Sweet! Great to hear! :mug:
 

actech

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Still no head ? Mouthfeel great and lots of lil bubbles coming up. champagne like. but no head. May pour next one hard to see,but any ideas why no head? only a visual thing it tastes AWESOME !!!
 

trinkner

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Hi folks,

I brewed the Xocoveza clone using the recipe below, and had amazing results. I had a taste test with seven friends, tasting about an ounce each of the actual Stone Xocoveza from a bottle, and a pour of my homebrew clone. The two were virtually identical in flavor, color, mouthfeel, and head. This is truly an amazing recipe: one of the best beers I've made in my 20 years of homebrewing. Thanks to the many who have contributed to the thread and honed the recipe.

For 5 US gallons.

Recipe: Xocoveza Clone TYPE: All Grain
Style: Imperial Stout

SRM: 43.4 SRM
IBU: 52.0 IBUs
OG: 1.083 SG
FG: 1.026 SG
BU:GU: 0.623
Calories: 309.6 kcal/12oz
Est ABV: 7.5 %
Estimated Efficiency%: 65.00 %
Batch: 5.50 gal
Boil: 6.21 gal BT: 60 Mins

Total Grain Weight: 19 lbs 8.0 oz Total Hops: 3.00 oz oz.
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 61.5 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.3 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.7 %
1 lbs Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.1 %
8.0 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.6 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.6 %


Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 23.52 qt of water at 164.9 F 152.0 F 60 min

Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun , 1.32gal, 1.32gal) of 168.0 F water

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.077 SG Est OG: 1.083 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8 5.1 %
2.00 oz Challenger [9.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 49.5 IBUs
4.00 oz Cocoa Nibs (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 10 -
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.80 %] - Boil Hop 12 2.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Coffee Grounds (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 13 -
1.00 tbsp Nutmeg Powder (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 14 -


---FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 15 Jul 2017 - 4.00 Days at 67.0 F
Secondary Start: 19 Jul 2017 - 10.00 Days at 67.0 F
Style Carb Range: 2.20-2.80 Vols
Bottling Date: 29 Jul 2017 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
---NOTES------------------------------------
I added the coffee grounds and nutmeg at flameout, and then cooled the wort to 80 degrees before pitching the yeast. I used a yeast starter, but only 33g of DME per about 800 ml water because I only had 33g of DME on hand. The brewhouse efficiency is probably down a bit due to the fact that my Gatorade mash tun won't hold enough water. I increased the sparge water and sparge time to try to compsenate.

For the tincture, I added
3 chopped vanilla beans
4 chopped dried pasilla ancho chilies
3 ounces broken cinammon sticks

to a quart mason jar, and then added Absolut vodka until the dry goods were covered -- about half way up. I started soaking these ingredients in the vodka during the brew process and added them to the secondary after racking from the primary after a week.

After adding the tincture to the secondary, the beer tasted great but the chile heat was a little lacking. I made a second tincture of about 1/2 cup vodka, a handful of chiles de arbol, and 2 more ounces of crushed cinnamon sticks. I let this soak for several days and then added it to the secondary. When I added this second tincture, the chile heat rose to a bit higher than I thought it should be, but after carbonation, the chile heat tasted just about perfect. The carbonation bubbles hide a bit of the spicy heat.

I think the chile heat will the hardest part to dial in, as chiles vary in heat from package to package. The pasilla ancho chiles had great chile flavor, but not much heat (I could eat the raw seeds without tasting much heat). I'd recommend using a separate mason jar just for chiles. Use one jar for pasilla ancho chiles for the nice non-hot chile flavor, and then use a separate jar chile de arbol vodka tincture. Once the beer is fully fermented, you can then mix in the spicy hot chile de arbol tincture little by little, until you achieve the heat you want.

Enjoy! And thanks to Stone for such a fantastic creation!

Richard
 

TravelingLight

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Hi folks,

I brewed the Xocoveza clone using the recipe below, and had amazing results. I had a taste test with seven friends, tasting about an ounce each of the actual Stone Xocoveza from a bottle, and a pour of my homebrew clone. The two were virtually identical in flavor, color, mouthfeel, and head. This is truly an amazing recipe: one of the best beers I've made in my 20 years of homebrewing. Thanks to the many who have contributed to the thread and honed the recipe.

For 5 US gallons.

Recipe: Xocoveza Clone TYPE: All Grain
Style: Imperial Stout

SRM: 43.4 SRM
IBU: 52.0 IBUs
OG: 1.083 SG
FG: 1.026 SG
BU:GU: 0.623
Calories: 309.6 kcal/12oz
Est ABV: 7.5 %
Estimated Efficiency%: 65.00 %
Batch: 5.50 gal
Boil: 6.21 gal BT: 60 Mins

Total Grain Weight: 19 lbs 8.0 oz Total Hops: 3.00 oz oz.
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 61.5 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.3 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.7 %
1 lbs Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.1 %
8.0 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.6 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.6 %


Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 23.52 qt of water at 164.9 F 152.0 F 60 min

Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun , 1.32gal, 1.32gal) of 168.0 F water

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.077 SG Est OG: 1.083 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8 5.1 %
2.00 oz Challenger [9.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 49.5 IBUs
4.00 oz Cocoa Nibs (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 10 -
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.80 %] - Boil Hop 12 2.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Coffee Grounds (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 13 -
1.00 tbsp Nutmeg Powder (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 14 -


---FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 15 Jul 2017 - 4.00 Days at 67.0 F
Secondary Start: 19 Jul 2017 - 10.00 Days at 67.0 F
Style Carb Range: 2.20-2.80 Vols
Bottling Date: 29 Jul 2017 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
---NOTES------------------------------------
I added the coffee grounds and nutmeg at flameout, and then cooled the wort to 80 degrees before pitching the yeast. I used a yeast starter, but only 33g of DME per about 800 ml water because I only had 33g of DME on hand. The brewhouse efficiency is probably down a bit due to the fact that my Gatorade mash tun won't hold enough water. I increased the sparge water and sparge time to try to compsenate.

For the tincture, I added
3 chopped vanilla beans
4 chopped dried pasilla ancho chilies
3 ounces broken cinammon sticks

to a quart mason jar, and then added Absolut vodka until the dry goods were covered -- about half way up. I started soaking these ingredients in the vodka during the brew process and added them to the secondary after racking from the primary after a week.

After adding the tincture to the secondary, the beer tasted great but the chile heat was a little lacking. I made a second tincture of about 1/2 cup vodka, a handful of chiles de arbol, and 2 more ounces of crushed cinnamon sticks. I let this soak for several days and then added it to the secondary. When I added this second tincture, the chile heat rose to a bit higher than I thought it should be, but after carbonation, the chile heat tasted just about perfect. The carbonation bubbles hide a bit of the spicy heat.

I think the chile heat will the hardest part to dial in, as chiles vary in heat from package to package. The pasilla ancho chiles had great chile flavor, but not much heat (I could eat the raw seeds without tasting much heat). I'd recommend using a separate mason jar just for chiles. Use one jar for pasilla ancho chiles for the nice non-hot chile flavor, and then use a separate jar chile de arbol vodka tincture. Once the beer is fully fermented, you can then mix in the spicy hot chile de arbol tincture little by little, until you achieve the heat you want.

Enjoy! And thanks to Stone for such a fantastic creation!

Richard
Thanks for posting this! I've been wanting to try a Xoco like beer, and I think I'm gonna give your recipe a shot. When did you add the EKG hops? At flameout or earlier? Also, I assume you added the lactose late in the boil, like at 5? Or did you wait until flameout?

Also, what yeast did you use? Apologies if it was in your post and I missed it. But I read back through it a few times to make sure I wasn't missing it. Thanks.
 

trinkner

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Here's the recipe again, cleaned up. Sorry for the confusing post above.

For 5 US gallons.

SRM: 43.4 SRM
IBU: 52.0 IBUs
OG: 1.083 SG
FG: 1.026 SG

12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row)
2 lbs Munich Malt - 10L
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked
1 lbs Black (Patent) Malt
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
8.0 oz Carafoam
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt

Mash with 5.88 gallons of water at 164.9 F so mash reaches 152.0 F. Mash for 60 min. Batch sparge with 2.65 gallons of 168.0 F water.

Boil:

1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose)
2.00 oz Challenger [9.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min
4.00 oz Cocoa Nibs - Boil 15.0 mins
0.25 tsp Irish Moss - Boil 10.0 mins
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Coffee Grounds - flameout
1.00 tbsp Nutmeg Powder - flameout

White Labs Burton Ale yeast WLP023

Tincture to add to secondary:

3 chopped vanilla beans
4 chopped dried pasilla ancho chilies
3 ounces broken cinnamon sticks

Add these ingredients to a quart mason jar, and fill with vodka until the dry goods are covered -- about half way up. Soak for a week. Add the liquid to secondary. Discard the vanilla, cinnamon, and chiles.

Make a second smaller tincture with vodka and 5 to 10 crushed chiles de arbol (skinny, hot, dried, reddish chiles). This will determine the spicy heat. Soak for a week. Add the tincture to the secondary little by little, tasting as you go, until the spicy heat reaches the level you prefer. The carbonation will hide a little of the heat once the beer is carbonated.

The tinctures are used instead of adding these ingredients to the boil because their aromatic and flavor qualities will be lost if boiled.

Enjoy! And thanks to Stone for such a fantastic creation!

Richard
 

cmac62

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When I did my clone I boiled some of the chili and put some in 2 cups vodka with the spices, vanilla and Cacao. I also used a little cayenne powder to give it a little more heat. When Stone first released this beer it was spicier that the subsequent batches. Also 2tbs of nutmeg is a lot. I used something like 1 tsp. I also agree with safa about the amount of roasted barley. Did you use any milk sugar, as Stones is a milk stout? You can adjust the final product with tincture added to the keg. Let us know how it turns out, I loved both of my attempts. :mug:
 

cmac62

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Thanks for posting this! I've been wanting to try a Xoco like beer, and I think I'm gonna give your recipe a shot. When did you add the EKG hops? At flameout or earlier? Also, I assume you added the lactose late in the boil, like at 5? Or did you wait until flameout?

Also, what yeast did you use? Apologies if it was in your post and I missed it. But I read back through it a few times to make sure I wasn't missing it. Thanks.
In this beer the hops are just for bittering. I don't thing I used anything other than a 60 min addition. :mug:
 

cmac62

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Enjoy! And thanks to Stone for such a fantastic creation!

Richard
Actually the original recipe was the winner of their annual HB comp, I don't remember the brewer's name, but I think it is still in the write up on the label. It is an outstanding beer though. :tank:
 

trinkner

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@cmac62

I think you might be commenting on a recipe different from mine posted yesterday. I only used 1 tbs nutmeg (not 2), and I specified milk sugar (lactose) in the boil.

In any case, my recipe turned out awesome. My wife has gone from being very skeptical to treating nearly every house guest to a taster and extolling the brew's virtues! It's fun to watch people taste their first sip and do a double-take... and then ask for a second (or third) glass after that. By the way, it's truly a religious experience poured over vanilla ice cream. :)
 

cmac62

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@cmac62

I think you might be commenting on a recipe different from mine posted yesterday. I only used 1 tbs nutmeg (not 2), and I specified milk sugar (lactose) in the boil.

In any case, my recipe turned out awesome. My wife has gone from being very skeptical to treating nearly every house guest to a taster and extolling the brew's virtues! It's fun to watch people taste their first sip and do a double-take... and then ask for a second (or third) glass after that. By the way, it's truly a religious experience poured over vanilla ice cream. :)
I must have been. There are several in the thread. Oh well, I'm glad your brew turned out well. I know for me that is the goal. :mug:

I bet it would be good over ice cream :D I just bought some liqueur called Root and it tastes like root beer. This was also great over ice cream.
 
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BarrelAgedForrest

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This years version! Changed a few things, including yeast. I am a lot more advanced then last year so shall see if i can best my version from last year! lol

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: XocaMaybe Ver2

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Sweet Stout
Boil Time: 75 min
Batch Size: 6.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.073
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.085
Final Gravity: 1.025
ABV (standard): 7.84%
IBU (tinseth): 41.34
SRM (morey): 38.79

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (47.6%)
6 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (28.6%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (4.8%)
0.75 lb - German - Carafa I (3.6%)
12 oz - Lactose (Milk Sugar) (3.6%)
8 oz - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (2.4%)
0.5 lb - United Kingdom - Black Patent (2.4%)
6 oz - United Kingdom - Pale Chocolate (1.8%)
6 oz - German - Carapils (1.8%)
6 oz - United Kingdom - Coffee Malt (1.8%)
6 oz - American - Caramel / Crystal 75L (1.8%)

HOPS:
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 40.33
1 oz - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 2 min, IBU: 1

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 151 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 7.5 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
6 oz - cacao, Time: 10 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Boil
2 each - cinnamon sticks , Type: Spice, Use: Secondary
3 each - Vanilla beans, Type: Spice, Use: Secondary
2 oz - coffee bean vodka tincture , Time: 0 min, Type: Spice, Use: Secondary
2 oz - passilla pepper, Type: Spice, Use: Secondary
1 tsp - nutmeg, Time: 0 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil

YEAST:
3rd GENERATION Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Starter: Harvested from prior beer
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
Fermentation Temp: 66 F
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)




NOTES:
crystal 70 used in place of crystal 75
Cut pasilla in half
Spices/Pepper all in 3oz of vodka
coffee tincture seperate
 

BarrelAgedForrest

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brewing this now! changed flaked oats to 2lbs and black patent to 6oz . Will of course report back when done! Cheers!
 

Picotto

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How long should it be the aging time for this beer? Due it is high ABV. I guess should be around 2-3 months. But I don't if the spices will still be there.
 

Wallachia

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How long should it be the aging time for this beer? Due it is high ABV. I guess should be around 2-3 months. But I don't if the spices will still be there.
I imagine you can always add more spice tincture later (though, as always, you can always add more, but you can never take it out!)

EDIT: My own question is -- has anyone taken a stab at actually measuring out the weight of their secondary spices (as the post by the original brewer recommended)? Most of these recipes specify "two cinnamon sticks" but I've seen cinnamon sticks the size and shape of your pinkie... I've also seen cinnamon sticks the size of a 12 oz beer bottle. Thoughts?

EDIT2: also forgot to mention, have 5 gallons of this in the fermentor right now -- only thing I had to skip out on was the lactose, since I could not find any anywhere near me -- fortunately i should be able to add this in secondary without any huge change in quality.
 

BarrelAgedForrest

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3 weeks boil to keg. And this is my best Stout yet! I went lighter this year on the spices so they are just nice subtle notes. Do not go heavy make a tincture and do 1 ounce at a time till you get what you want! Cheers!
20171121_193044.jpg
 

dude1

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Just transferred trinkner version (Aug 24, 2017) to fermenter.

Will let you know what it gives.
 
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NarrowsBrewCo

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This thread is amazing! I actually put together a grain bill for a coffee milk stout, but as I've read this thread and I know much my wife and I love Xocoveza I think I'll take it a step further with the additional adjuncts. My bill and additions are pretty different than what's on here so I'm not really going for a clone, mainly just finding a way to get rid of some hops, lactose and other items I had around. This is what I'm working with for the malt bill if you guys are curious:

13 lbs Pale Ale Malt
1.5 lbs flaked oats
1 lb chocolate malt
12 oz. roasted barley
10 oz carafa III
8 oz caramel 120
8 oz lactose

2 oz cascade @ 60 mins

I have some cascade hops left, I don't think they'll have much an impact at 60 mins. I'll be doing the same as previous posters, making a tincture is what I'll be doing. I've got a mesh bag, as well as a stainless tube I can use either in the fermenter or in the keg. Looking forward to trying it out!
 

NarrowsBrewCo

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Went ahead and brewed my batch up on Saturday afternoon. Here are some details from brew day:

Brew day changes:

- I decided to go ahead and add an ounce of cocoa nibs at flameout for 10 minutes. I initially wasn't going to do this.

Brew day tips:

- I got a lot of doubters in other forums that a beer this big would result in big efficiency losses. I have The Brew Bag, which I can't recommend enough. I don't BIAB, but I instead use it to 'Mash in a Bag'. With this bag it allowed me to use a finer crush. I also used a 1/2 lb of extra base malt just in case (13 lbs).

Preboil volume - 6.25 gallons
Preboil gravity - ~1.060

60 minute boil

I've been brewing IPA's mainly, so this was actually a pretty easy brew day since I didn't have all the hop additions I usually do.

Postboil volume - 5.25 gallons (into fermenter)
Postboil gravity - 1.085 (Beersmith estimated 1.086)
Brewhouse efficiency: ~70%

Fermentation: Based on Beersmith, it called for a pretty big starter (5 Liters!). I don't have a vessel that big, managed to build up a 2L starter, then pitched an additional WLP001 Pure Pitch packet just to be safe. Cooled wort down to 74, transferred to the primary and dropped into my fermentation chamber, set at 68 degrees.

Within 4 hours I had activity, with a small layer of Krausen. I always use a blowoff tube. It's now day 3 of fermentation and activity remains quite high. Krausen has grown to a solid thick layer. I'm keeping the fermentation temp at 68, and plan to let it stay in primary the next 4 weeks.

Based on what ya'll have said, I'm going to make a tincture in the next couple days in a mason jar and let it hang out til it's time to secondary. This is what I'm thinking for the secondary additions:

3-4 oz cocoa nibs
2 Pasilla chili peppers (this is the wildcard, I don't want to overwhelm with spice)
2 vanilla beans
2-3 cinnamon sticks
1 tsp nutmeg (on the fence about adding this at all)

24 oz coldbrew coffee.

I'll send updates once I get to the next step. This was really fun to make! Excited for the outcome!
 

InspectorJon

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Brewed a beer on New Years Eve inspired by this thread. I modified the grain bill to get a higher ABV and emulate Abraxas which seems to be a beer that fits in this category. There is little information on brewing that one. The brewer gives some information here: ABRAXAS. I use the BIAB method. It was a long brew day. I had to rack some beer out of my primary and bottled a few of those so I would have a yeast cake to pitch on to. I made a 3 gallon batch. I had to mash in two separate kettles because I could not fit 14 lbs of grain and 6.5 gallons of water into one. I boiled two hours because information I gathered on brewing this kind of beer favored longer boil time. I emailed the brewer at Alvarado Street Brewery and he said they did a 3-4 hour boil for their Mexican pastry stout. I'll post the result in a few months when I get to finally taste it but the wort tasted amazing. If it comes out good I'll start a new recipe thread because this is really not Xocoveza but that is what got me headed down this road. OG ended up at 1.120. I added a little water to bring it back down to 1.114 which was my target.
IMG_3955.jpg Hot Break

IMG_3956.jpg Gravity
 

toddo97

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Brewed a beer on New Years Eve inspired by this thread. I modified the grain bill to get a higher ABV and emulate Abraxas which seems to be a beer that fits in this category. There is little information on brewing that one. The brewer gives some information here: ABRAXAS. I use the BIAB method. It was a long brew day. I had to rack some beer out of my primary and bottled a few of those so I would have a yeast cake to pitch on to. I made a 3 gallon batch. I had to mash in two separate kettles because I could not fit 14 lbs of grain and 6.5 gallons of water into one. I boiled two hours because information I gathered on brewing this kind of beer favored longer boil time. I emailed the brewer at Alvarado Street Brewery and he said they did a 3-4 hour boil for their Mexican pastry stout. I'll post the result in a few months when I get to finally taste it but the wort tasted amazing. If it comes out good I'll start a new recipe thread because this is really not Xocoveza but that is what got me headed down this road. OG ended up at 1.120. I added a little water to bring it back down to 1.114 which was my target.
View attachment 605378 Hot Break

View attachment 605379 Gravity
Any update on this?
 

NarrowsBrewCo

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263D0A62-FDD7-49DB-BCAB-DA6395FA3D40.jpeg
I finally finished mine off, but had some changes. I added about 40 oz of coldbrew and still didn’t get much coffee flavor, I also hung some whole beans in the keg for a few days.

Regardless, what the coffee really did was offset the lactose sweetness and I couldn’t be happier.

It ended up tasting so good I didn’t add the cinnamon or the peppers.

The only other downside is it has very little head, and goes away quickly. My only guess is the oil from the nibs and coffee beans killed it.
 

InspectorJon

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Any update on this?
Big beer - long reply.

On January 31 I pitched entire yeast cake of US-05 from a lower gravity amber ale into 3 gallons of 1.114 milk stout wort. It took off fast and after one week fermentation symptoms were done. At two weeks I measured and the gravity had gone from 1.114 to 1.048, pretty high still. I shook it up and raised the temperature to 70F for a week but the gravity did not go down.

At three weeks I racked to secondary and pitched a packet of SafAle S-33, a high alcohol tolerant yeast, and some yeast nutrient into the beer. I waited another week but it still did not move off 48 points. It was quite sweet. This style of beer should finish high but not this high I do not think. Brewers Friend predicted 1.031 for FG. I anticipated upper 30's. I assume my mashing temperature and process must have producd to may unfermentable sugars so I added 3/4 of a teaspoon of amylase enzyme in hopes of converting some of those sugars.

12 Hours after the enzyme addition fermentation activity resumed and after one week gravity was down to 1.038. That was this weekend, Feb 1, and a month after brew date. All the gravity samples have tasted great. I added the adjuncts this weekend and am waiting another week to see how it goes. I made a tincture of 1/2 190 proof everclear and 1/2 water mixed with crushed roasted cocao nibs, rough crushed coffee beans, ancho and guahillo chilis and crushed cinnamon sticks. This steeped for the 4 weeks. I poured it all into the beer. There was some residual tincture in the jar and I mixed some gravity sample with it and it definitely had that Xocoveza flavor going on. I'll test again this weekend. If the gravity remains the same I'll bottle and report back in a month.
 

toddo97

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View attachment 610828 I finally finished mine off, but had some changes. I added about 40 oz of coldbrew and still didn’t get much coffee flavor, I also hung some whole beans in the keg for a few days.

Regardless, what the coffee really did was offset the lactose sweetness and I couldn’t be happier.

It ended up tasting so good I didn’t add the cinnamon or the peppers.

The only other downside is it has very little head, and goes away quickly. My only guess is the oil from the nibs and coffee beans killed it.
Looks good! I'm fine with a beer like this to have poor head retention as long as it tastes good :)
 

toddo97

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Big beer - long reply.

On January 31 I pitched entire yeast cake of US-05 from a lower gravity amber ale into 3 gallons of 1.114 milk stout wort. It took off fast and after one week fermentation symptoms were done. At two weeks I measured and the gravity had gone from 1.114 to 1.048, pretty high still. I shook it up and raised the temperature to 70F for a week but the gravity did not go down.

At three weeks I racked to secondary and pitched a packet of SafAle S-33, a high alcohol tolerant yeast, and some yeast nutrient into the beer. I waited another week but it still did not move off 48 points. It was quite sweet. This style of beer should finish high but not this high I do not think. Brewers Friend predicted 1.031 for FG. I anticipated upper 30's. I assume my mashing temperature and process must have producd to may unfermentable sugars so I added 3/4 of a teaspoon of amylase enzyme in hopes of converting some of those sugars.

12 Hours after the enzyme addition fermentation activity resumed and after one week gravity was down to 1.038. That was this weekend, Feb 1, and a month after brew date. All the gravity samples have tasted great. I added the adjuncts this weekend and am waiting another week to see how it goes. I made a tincture of 1/2 190 proof everclear and 1/2 water mixed with crushed roasted cocao nibs, rough crushed coffee beans, ancho and guahillo chilis and crushed cinnamon sticks. This steeped for the 4 weeks. I poured it all into the beer. There was some residual tincture in the jar and I mixed some gravity sample with it and it definitely had that Xocoveza flavor going on. I'll test again this weekend. If the gravity remains the same I'll bottle and report back in a month.
Thanks for the update--I'm pretty sure this will be my next beer (and first try at it). I'm thinking about adding an extra pound or two of 2-row to see if can hit double digits with the ABV. I also have a pound of D240 Belgian candi syrup that I might try. I'm trying Imperial's A10 Darkness for the first time and plan on stepping up a starter so I'm crossing my fingers I don't run into a gravity problem. I'm never used enzymes, but I may get some in case it stalls. How much of the tincture additions did you use and were you happy with the amts?
 

InspectorJon

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How much of the tincture additions did you use and were you happy with the amts?
Into 3 gallons of stout:
3 oz roasted cocao nibs
12 grams Indonesian cinnamon stick, crushed
8 g Medium roast Mandailing coffee, course crush
15 g Dry ancho chili, coarsely shredded - no seeds
5 g Dry guajillo, chili coarsely shredded - no seeds
3 weeks in 50/50 everclear & water, enough to cover everything.

I'll add vanilla extract to taste when I bottle. Vanilla beans have gotten so expensive.
I have not tasted since adding the spices. I added the tincture and all the whole spices into the secondary. I'll sample this weekend. Ancho chili is generally not very hot. Guajillo is still considered mild but is hotter. Peppers are somewhat unpredictable. I think I may end up adding more coffee in the form of espresso shots to taste from my espresso machine, same beans.

I have learned from my cooking experience that it is generally a good idea to aim for a flavor blend. Usually there is no individual dominant flavor but they all work together to create a singular unique flavor. The exception would be say Chocolate Stout. Then you would want chocolate to stand out.

My grain bill:
8 lb 2 Row
1.75 lb Munich light
1 lb Flaked Barley
.75 lb UK Pale Chocolate (220)
.75 Simpson DRC (120)
.5 Briess Black Barley (500)
.5 Roasted Barley (300)
.5 Carafa III (535)
.25 Flaked Oats
14 pounds of grain into 6.5 gallons of water. Full volume mash. Boiled down to around 3.5 gallons of wort.

Mashed at 150 for 1 hour then raised to 168 and lifted bag. Next time I'll go at 145 for an hour then up to 156 for 15 min then up to 168 and lift. I have had trouble in the past with Munich not attenuating well. There are a lot of roasted grains as well that may contribute some non-fermentable sugar.

I have been brewing using more current methods for about a year now. 18 batches, so I would not consider myself an expert. This particular beer is a grand experiment.

If there are any moderators following this I wonder if this discussion should be moved somewhere else because this is really not Xocoveza. It is a Mexican hot chocolate imperial stout. Might be called a pastry stout.
 

toddo97

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Great info! I'm going to try vanilla extract for the first time with this for your same reason, but I'm trying to find a good 1 bean = xmL of extract formula. I'm also thinking about trying to do my tincture with bourbon to get a little of that flavor in it. The grain bill I found looks pretty similar to yours, but I may end up doing a hybrid of the two. Thanks for the long writeup--I hope it turns out great. What's your expected ABV? I know Xocoveza is just over 8%, but I'm going to shoot for a little north of 10%.
 
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