Speakers and stereo equipment

[applescrap]

Hell ya, so happy for you. Looking forward to a pic of your install for sure. So the 6.75 come with oem fit mounts? Couldnt be better. Now an amp is next, I need one too. Alpine makes a little one that fits behind deck and elminates a long power run. I have a feeling a big craigslist car amp and 2 12s are coming soon. Sold my usa soundstream 12. So sad at this moment. Im Ramblin now. To be continued...

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

What are your thoughts on using polyfill in a car audio system?

I have a Jeep Wrangler JK, and recently replaced the stock speakers in the dash and sound bar with Kicker coaxial speakers. HUGE improvement. I followed some online advice and filled both the dash enclosures and the sound bar with polyfill behind the new speakers.

I don't know if it makes it better or worse, since I added it at the same time as the new speakers so I changed two variables simultaneously.

But I wonder if there's a clear enough answer to potentially justify opening up the car again and pulling it out.

 

[headbanger]

What are your thoughts on using polyfill in a car audio system?

I have a Jeep Wrangler JK, and recently replaced the stock speakers in the dash and sound bar with Kicker coaxial speakers. HUGE improvement. I followed some online advice and filled both the dash enclosures and the sound bar with polyfill behind the new speakers.

I don't know if it makes it better or worse, since I added it at the same time as the new speakers so I changed two variables simultaneously.

But I wonder if there's a clear enough answer to potentially justify opening up the car again and pulling it out.

I poly-filled mine a while back, both sound bar and sub enclosure. I could tell a pretty big difference in bass response and much more mid range punch.

Afterwards I replaced the sound-bar speakers and sub driver which helped a lot but the best single mod that improved the stock sound most was re-capping the dash tweeters. It's pretty simple to do if you can solder at all, here's a link if you're interested.

 

[applescrap]

What are your thoughts on using polyfill in a car audio system?

I have a Jeep Wrangler JK, and recently replaced the stock speakers in the dash and sound bar with Kicker coaxial speakers. HUGE improvement. I followed some online advice and filled both the dash enclosures and the sound bar with polyfill behind the new speakers.

I don't know if it makes it better or worse, since I added it at the same time as the new speakers so I changed two variables simultaneously.

But I wonder if there's a clear enough answer to potentially justify opening up the car again and pulling it out.

This is a great question. Intuitively it would seem like a good idea. Although sound foam would be the better choice, i think. Back in hs when i bought a cheap woofer box, we filled it with pillows for similar reasons.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I poly-filled mine a while back, both sound bar and sub enclosure. I could tell a pretty big difference in bass response and much more mid range punch.

Afterwards I replaced the sound-bar speakers and sub driver which helped a lot but the best single mod that improved the stock sound most was re-capping the dash tweeters. It's pretty simple to do if you can solder at all, here's a link if you're interested.

Awesome!

I'm an electrical engineer, so I suppose I can pull out a soldering iron and not break anything

 

[whoaru99]

disregard. it appears to be sorted.

 

[akthor]

I have a variety of systems but my fave for listening to music are my vintage CV MK1215's.

I found them in an attic in Maine. They were made in Denmark brought to the US by a serviceman via Germany (they still have airline shipping stickers on the back of them). I've refoamed them once and they will need it again soon.

Each one is over 4' tall and weighs 100lbs. Front facing 12" woofer, tweeter and two 6 1\2" mids with a 15" woofer pointed at the floor. They sat in storage for 2+ yrs after our last move and just recently I convinced the wife to allow me to set them up in our lakeside cabin.

I've powered them many ways since they have bi amp posts. Even using 4 amps at one point. Now just a big pro amp and pre amp in the basement with a Bluetooth receiver and I have my Echo Dot synced to it.

Just like being at a concert. Man I missed these. Added to the ability to just tell Alexa whatever music I want to play. Just a lot of fun!

 

[jodell]

Ok so I got these new speakers installed..


One sounds awesome, and the other sounds reeeealt quiet. This was also the problem last time, I'm not sure if it is wiring, the speaker is damaged, or the stereo

 

[akthor]

Wiring is usually an off on thing. Low output out of one speaker sounds like a bad channel on the amp or receiver.

 

[jodell]

I called crutchfield and they said it was more than likely a faulty wire, because the tweeter is working fine on the door, it's just the new speaker.

 

[applescrap]

Man they look nice, wtf is up with one speaker quiet. Did you pull on the deck wires, jiggle them, idk anything to see where fault is? Someone here has got to be able to help, no? Could a volt ohmmeter work to diagnose? Play with the fades and balance? Is there corrosion at tip? Cut wire and reattach?

So thats the factory mount copy? Sweet!

 

[jodell]

Man they look nice, wtf is up with one speaker quiet. Did you pull on the deck wires, jiggle them, idk anything to see where fault is? Someone here has got to be able to help, no? Could a volt ohmmeter work to diagnose? Play with the fades and balance? Is there corrosion at tip? Cut wire and reattach?

So thats the factory mount copy? Sweet!

I'm going to switch the speakers around just to make sure it's not the speaker. After I got both of them screwed in it got pretty cloudy, and we don't have a garage so I put the panel on quick and finished that before it rained.

To my knowledge I didn't see any corrosion.

The guy at crutchfield seamed a little baffled as well but was very helpful. I'm going to Jimmy some wires tomorrow and see if it comes in louder.

 

[applescrap]

I see a little white connector, wiggle it and check it. Switch speakers good idea. It wouldnt be hard to rewire, you can see how and where it gets to door. Guess it could have got pinched or something.

True story my car wouldn't start at 7 11. Pulled in for a rockstar, in the morning, and those mini red spicey tacos, man i love them. Hop in the car, and....nothing. change the starter, check fuses, everything, and narrow it down to ignition switch. Determined i get my 240 pound body under the dash, see the white ignition switch and the wires coming out of it. Try to start car, one last time before changing that part and it starts. Jiggling that stupid wire did it. Happened once again and jiggle worked again. I dont like problems like that, finding it is the hardest part.

 

[Jwin]

Ok so I got these new speakers installed..


One sounds awesome, and the other sounds reeeealt quiet. This was also the problem last time, I'm not sure if it is wiring, the speaker is damaged, or the stereo

Sounds like the amp/head unit if the problem existed before the swap.
I would still flip the speakers to check. If that yields the same result, then you will need to pull the head unit. You can check the voltage output with an multimeter. Just compare the voltage from the left and right channels with the stereo on and speakers disconnected. That will also confirm it's not the speakers, assuming there are different voltages. You can get a $9 multimeter at harbor freight if you don't have one. Or ask a neighbor. It's good to have at least a cheap on laying around...
Leave one speaker uninstalled.
Get a wiring diagram for your head unit. Find the wiring diagram for you head unit. Locate the output for that speaker via diagram. If everything looks suitable, your going to need to do some geekery.
First, I would jump from the direct output of the head unit. Remove the wiring harness, assuming it's still there. Some people install aftermarket radios by spicing wires. This is stupid. Very stupid. You can get wiring harness adapters to do this for you for around $10 and will save a ton of headache.
Anyway, find the output for that speaker and it's opposing speaker. Measure the outputs of those wires. If they are the same voltages, it's not the speaker and not head unit and instead, something in between.
If the voltages are different, it's the amp in head unit. A new head unit would be in order. Make sure to order the necessary wiring harness adapter, assuming your wiring harness is still intact.
Hope this helps.

 

[jodell]

Alright back to the drawing board....i have wiggled everything that can wiggled with no results. I was planning on replacing the stereo anyways so I'll see if that works

Sounds like the amp/head unit if the problem existed before the swap.
I would still flip the speakers to check. If that yields the same result, then you will need to pull the head unit. You can check the voltage output with an multimeter. Just compare the voltage from the left and right channels with the stereo on and speakers disconnected. That will also confirm it's not the speakers, assuming there are different voltages. You can get a $9 multimeter at harbor freight if you don't have one. Or ask a neighbor. It's good to have at least a cheap on laying around...
Leave one speaker uninstalled.
Get a wiring diagram for your head unit. Find the wiring diagram for you head unit. Locate the output for that speaker via diagram. If everything looks suitable, your going to need to do some geekery.
First, I would jump from the direct output of the head unit. Remove the wiring harness, assuming it's still there. Some people install aftermarket radios by spicing wires. This is stupid. Very stupid. You can get wiring harness adapters to do this for you for around $10 and will save a ton of headache.
Anyway, find the output for that speaker and it's opposing speaker. Measure the outputs of those wires. If they are the same voltages, it's not the speaker and not head unit and instead, something in between.
If the voltages are different, it's the amp in head unit. A new head unit would be in order. Make sure to order the necessary wiring harness adapter, assuming your wiring harness is still intact.
Hope this helps.

I'll be honest with you, I am fairly handy but not with electrical work...so I didn't understand most of this. I do know the power goes from stereo, to the speaker, to the tweeter. The tweeter is working just fine, just not the speaker i put in. I still have yet to switch the driver side with this one to see if there is any change (it's been raining here and I don't have a garage) so I need to to check that just to cover all bases.

Any other ideas out there I would gladly accept and appreciate

 

[Jwin]

If it's a separate tweeter, are you sure they are connected? There would be 4 wires converging on the dash speaker, if that were the case.
If this is the fact, and the tweeter is working at the same level as before the swap, then that changes things, making the new speaker suspect.

 

[jodell]

I work till 10 tonight so ill have to check tomorrow. When I unplugged the harness it cut all the sound. Plugged it back in and the tweeter was going and the new speaker was going but very quiet

 

[Jwin]

Sounds like a bad voice coil in your new speaker then. Swapping them will tell you for sure.

 

[applescrap]

Have been messing with separating speakers to make triangle. Man an equilateral triangle of 11 feet is big. Got tv more centered and speakers more spread i think they sound better

View attachment 1492262262179.jpg

 

[Jwin]

Next step would be getting them at ear level. Looks like that chair on the right is blocking the right channel from the listening position.
You would always dig out some junk from the garage to prop them up and try out before committing but, I think you'll see a solid improvement from elevating them.

 

[afro_lou]

Alright back to the drawing board....i have wiggled everything that can wiggled with no results. I was planning on replacing the stereo anyways so I'll see if that works









I'll be honest with you, I am fairly handy but not with electrical work...so I didn't understand most of this. I do know the power goes from stereo, to the speaker, to the tweeter. The tweeter is working just fine, just not the speaker i put in. I still have yet to switch the driver side with this one to see if there is any change (it's been raining here and I don't have a garage) so I need to to check that just to cover all bases.



Any other ideas out there I would gladly accept and appreciate

Are the tweeter and woofer separate or all in one? Is the head unit a "bi-amp" unit? I.e., are there two sets of speaker wires for each channel? I'm wondering if you're getting a high-pass signal from a crossover sent to the woofer, which would make it sound very thing for sure...

 

[jodell]

Whelp...i feel dumb.
Took my wife's car out of town this past weekend for easter, only to discover her car has the exact same problem....found out it is because I only tested my car with an aux cord plugged into my phone. I guess my phone does not support stereo sound, we put on the radio and her car was fine, I haven't tested it in my car yet but I can't imagine it would be anything else.

Thanks to everybody who helped me out on this!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Whelp...i feel dumb.
Took my wife's car out of town this past weekend for easter, only to discover her car has the exact same problem....found out it is because I only tested my car with an aux cord plugged into my phone. I guess my phone does not support stereo sound, we put on the radio and her car was fine, I haven't tested it in my car yet but I can't imagine it would be anything else.

Thanks to everybody who helped me out on this!

Now that sounds like you are using a two-way auxillary cable in a 3 way mini jack. Or vice-versa.

 

[Jwin]

Or your phone case is keeping the aux cord from fully inserting, making contact with the ring and sleeve, but not the tip.
I had to drill out my current case for this reason.
Hope it works out for ya!

 

[jodell]

Well put a CD in and the speakers are working great! Ordered a new stereo with Bluetooth and a usb to make music on my phone work better.

I took my case off and insured it was plugged in all the way and still had the problem

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I poly-filled mine a while back, both sound bar and sub enclosure. I could tell a pretty big difference in bass response and much more mid range punch.

Afterwards I replaced the sound-bar speakers and sub driver which helped a lot but the best single mod that improved the stock sound most was re-capping the dash tweeters. It's pretty simple to do if you can solder at all, here's a link if you're interested.

Thanks again for this... I did the tweeter mod on Monday, and it's SO much better. I can actually hear the tweeters now.

 

[applescrap]

Fun reading back through this thread. So many great tips and advice and help from so many of you and also realizing what a ****** I am. Thanks for the great info.

Got a little bug again and called the knowledgeable audio guy I bought my speakers from with a plethora of questions, which I will share here, maybe not all tonight. Learned tons along the way and made some personal choices. Man where to begin.

One initial question was about bi amping the speakers. He was not impressed and asked how much it would cost. Since it is an older cheaper amp in question he thought it wouldn't hurt and would add some sound quality. He mentioned he had a new parasound amp and that they were awesome etc etc. He offered to send it to me and if I didnt like it return it no questions asked. The price was amazing but I still am just not at a good place to lay down over 1k (cheap in hifi land) on another amp. That sent me looking into what more power would do, bi amping, amp quality, abx testing and more. Man what a journey and I am still confused about bi amping. Does biamping with two 120 watt amps double power? I think I have come to understand that it still is only 120 to each speaker, so only gain some headspace.

Started researching if amp quality mattered and sure enough found all kinds of thought. Appparently some guy named richard clark offered 10k of his own money for anyone who could tell aparts similar amps under certain conditions. Well certain conditions means a lot. And then blind testing. Apparently blind testing discussion is outlawed on many audio forums. Made me think of beer and blind tasting. Saw results where 3k cables and 10k cd players didnt show results and made me wonder. Deciding that amp watts meant louder and also not to worried about the best I figured louder cant be too bad

Well the guy I bought the speakers from said they had been making amps the same way for 20 years and that he knew the owner and it was quality gear. Using that info I searched and scored a 205 watt per channel amp, parasound hca 1500a for 270. It is clear to me that my nice rotel 120w amp was distorting at higher volumes. It can still play loud but I was not hearing the cleanliness that more power provides at even somewhat modest volumes. I think I will always seek higher power amps from now on. Rotel in bedroom now and it could be worse.

He also mentioned source. I was like power amps right and he was like no thats a power amp and he described sources. And I realized we discussed cds earlier. Then I started researching cd vs youtube etc... and came to the realization that pandora claims 64kbs or 128kbs, youtube similar (I think less) and cds are 1400kbs. So i listened to a few cds and wow, what a difference. But then realized my cheap a.. doesnt own any cds. Sooo scored a lot of 375cds for cheap. Great cds too. I saw huge deals but I am so glad i passed. I didnt even recognize most of them. Got a nice start from this guy but noticed he left a lot of the less popular albums from some groups and took a lot of jammy stuff out like slayer, iron maiden, metallica, judas priest, anthrax etc. But awesome collection u2, cure, elvis Costello, alan jackson, tori amos, wide spread panic, blink 182, may chapin, grateful dead, dixie chicks, kruder and dorfmeister, a nirvana, depesche mode, metallica (enter sandman cd), and so many more. A tasty little collection.

Excuse me to all that know, knew all this stuff, but thought I would share in case it would spark some thought. I have more I will share later and hope to get into some of these other ideas more. Final note, I have disconnected all subs for now! I think they were ruining the music.

 

[MaxStout]

Just discovered this thread--thanks, applescrap. I don't have any high-end gear, but some of what I do have is home-built. A pair of floor-standing, ported 3-way speakers I built from veneered MDF. Peerless woofers, Audax mids and dome tweeters. Home-built crossovers too. Built a couple solid state power amps--nothing fancy, just 2 channel stereo at 70W/ch RMS into 8 ohms. Built all that stuff back in my engineering days. Still sounds good today.

Cool story about blind testing. There was an old-school EE at National Semiconductor, named Bob Pease. A real guru among analog engineers, he wrote op-ed pieces in some of the EE trade mags. In the '90s, he wrote an article making fun of the esoteric speaker cables that were being touted at the time (PDF). It stirred up a big firestorm in the tweak-head audio community, with a flame war coming from some of the proponents of these expensive cables. Good times.

 

[applescrap]

Wow that is cool, Max. They sound amazing and the amps too, impressive. Maybe its time to build a 200w amp for those. I am starting to think power is king. I am still struggling like heck with the subs, even crossing them over I just dont know if I like them. With movie on bookshelves, maybe, depends on movie, but with big towers they just cant, and I am wondering, won't integrate. A guy was selling some original bw 802s for 800. Called him and asked him why he removed them, and he said he listened to them. They were from 1979 to 1984 and I bet they sound amazing and quality, but I just couldnt with a fabric tweeter. They are warm, natural, and some love them but I like the brightness, detail, and clarity of metal tweeters. Well these popped up yesterday and I jumped on them. Outdoor bw speakers. Yea baby cant wait to hear them. They are heavy and feel classy.

Got the cds organized and added my small bad collection. Also finally pulled the turntable out and put it upstairs. Super happy to give it a try.

 

[MaxStout]

Those B&Ws will sound nice on your patio or wherever you set them.

For those subs, have you tried experimenting with crossover frequencies?

If you get those 802s and you're into some DIY and want to swap out the tweets, check out Madisound. They might have something that will give a brighter high-end.