Sanitizing glassware

[Miraculix]

Beer is grains + hops. A rice wine is a grain without hops. If hops help protect the drink from infection, then surely the same drink without hops would need more not less attention to sanitation.

No it does not. Chinese rice wine is a mixed fermentation. The rice "yeast" balls contain fungus (mold), yeast and bacteria. It is a mixed fermentation that is by the nature of it almost like a wild fermentation. Plus at the end of it, it has a much higher abv then beer has. That will inhibit further bacterial growth.

 

[frithy]

It only contains rhizopus oryzae and saccharomyces cerevisiae, hardly a "wild fermentation". Hell, you can buy more diverse packets of dry yeast than that. Also, normal rice wine is weak as hell. It's eaten at like 1% alcohol and is more like porridge than anything else. How do I know all this? Because I can buy packets of the leavening agent for it anywhere on my block or eat the finished product any time I want, here, in CHINA.

 

[Miraculix]

It only contains rhizopus oryzae and saccharomyces cerevisiae, hardly a "wild fermentation". Hell, you can buy more diverse packets of dry yeast than that. Also, normal rice wine is weak as hell. It's eaten at like 1% alcohol and is more like porridge than anything else. How do I know all this? Because I can buy packets of the leavening agent for it anywhere on my block, here, in CHINA.

There are different versions of rice wine. What you are talking about is the desert. What op is talking about is yellow rice wine, something entirely different. It has usually more than 15%. There is a whole dedicated thread about this topic here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/making-traditional-rice-wine-cheap-fun-and-different.361095/
Read the last 20-30 pages and you will be up to date regarding the difference of angel brand "leavening agent" and the various different variations of yeast balls. There's also a friendly Chinese guy explaining the differences between the different ways of making rice wine and the desert.

 

[frithy]

There are different versions of rice wine. What you are talking about is the desert. What op is talking about is yellow rice wine, something entirely different. It has usually more than 15%. There is a whole dedicated thread about this topic here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/making-traditional-rice-wine-cheap-fun-and-different.361095/
Read the last 20-30 pages and you will be up to date regarding the difference of angel brand "leavening agent" and the various different variations of yeast balls. There's also a friendly Chinese guy explaining the differences between the different ways of making rice wine and the desert.

Rice wine, mijiu, 米酒, is a sweet rice porridge that is mildly alcoholic. Yellow wine, huangjiu, 黄酒, is made using the same yeast combination and with any of sundry grains but allowed to ferment out to completion. Neither are a wild fermentation. Further, if your argument is that traditionally made rice and yellow wines that use heirloom yeasts passed from person to person are like wild fermentation, then the same would apply to any heirloom yeasts used in farm house ales and such. Also, where are you getting your "over 15%" figure from? I just checked Taobao and most huangjiu is between 10 and 14 percent.

 

[Miraculix]

Rice wine, mijiu, 米酒, is a sweet rice porridge that is mildly alcoholic. Yellow wine, huangjiu, 黄酒, is made using the same yeast combination and with any of sundry grains but allowed to ferment out to completion. Neither are a wild fermentation. Further, if your argument is that traditionally made rice and yellow wines that use heirloom yeasts passed from person to person are like wild fermentation, then the same would apply to any heirloom yeasts used in farm house ales and such. Also, where are you getting your "over 15%" figure from? I just checked Taobao and most huangjiu is between 10 and 14 percent.

Please read the quoted thread, if you have specific questions you can ask me. I have not the time to explain everything into the last details myself but it's all written on the last 20 pages or so.

 

[MaxStout]

Jeeze, what are we so concerned about here that bug-bombing glassware is actually necessary?

My favorite beer glass for the last many years has literally never been intentionally "sanitized". It's barely even been "washed".
It's never seen sanitation temperatures as it never goes in the dishwasher and I don't have the hot water heater set to "sanitize"
I basically rinse it under warm water while "scrubbing" the inside with my fingers - no soap, no sanitizer - then towel dry it and put it away.

Cheers! (That's all, folks. And I'm still here )

Ewww. Remind me to bring my own glass if I come to your house for beers.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I clean with Fabuloso and then a mist a Febreze to sanitize.

 

[balrog]

Jeeze, what are we so concerned about here that bug-bombing glassware is actually necessary?

My favorite beer glass for the last many years has literally never been intentionally "sanitized". It's barely even been "washed".
It's never seen sanitation temperatures as it never goes in the dishwasher and I don't have the hot water heater set to "sanitize"
I basically rinse it under warm water while "scrubbing" the inside with my fingers - no soap, no sanitizer - then towel dry it and put it away.

Cheers! (That's all, folks. And I'm still here )

Everyone knows you're supposed to use your thumbs.

 

[acrowe]

I just wash my glasses - usually in the dishwasher, but I do try to keep printed glassware from breweries out of the dishwasher. Honestly I don't worry too much about sanitizing glassware that looks clean in my house (unless I have a bunch of people over and I use the dishwasher), maybe that's why I seem to get a lot of colds, or maybe its because I am exposed to it all the time teaching anyway.

As far as a bleach for sanitizing, I do and have done a lot of cooking for events and camps in inspected commercial kitchens. I am sure there are commercial solutions that are available, but bleach solutions are standard in my experience. We use them for dishes, and public health inspectors literally check the concentration of bleach when they come (kitchens should do it as well). My experience with public health inspectors is in Canada (BC & MB ).

 

[bellhp]

Meanwhile ... OP took advice given in post #2 ... put a diluted bleach solution in the carboy , rinsed it out fermented their rice wine and drank it , and moved on

 

[MrClint]

Having made Chinese/Asian rice wine a number of times before I got into brewing beer, and before I ever bought StarSan, I can tell you that hot tap water and a clean paper towel is all that is needed and all that I ever used. The yeast balls for this kind of brew are as suspect as you can get, no where near as well packaged (or pure) as any thing like US-05 and such, and the jar is simply covered with cloth and a rubber band. It is as low-tech and low effort as you can get (outside of having to cook the sticky rice before hand).

I would now just do a sanitizer cycle in my dishwasher at this point.

 

[bwible]

Jeeze, what are we so concerned about here that bug-bombing glassware is actually necessary?

My favorite beer glass for the last many years has literally never been intentionally "sanitized". It's barely even been "washed".
It's never seen sanitation temperatures as it never goes in the dishwasher and I don't have the hot water heater set to "sanitize"
I basically rinse it under warm water while "scrubbing" the inside with my fingers - no soap, no sanitizer - then towel dry it and put it away.

Cheers! (That's all, folks. And I'm still here )

Very informative article. This posted, I pretty much put mugs in the dishwasher and hand wash things with logos I wouldn’t care to lose, or any tall or thin walled glasses that either don’t sit well in the dishwasher or thst i would be afraid of breaking. I’ve had Glencairn glasses destroyed in the dishwasher.

The article talks about how much effort we put into brewing the beer so we should make the most of the glassware we use to enjoy it. The industry term is “beer clean” and what that means and why it is important.

https://content.kegworks.com/blog/beer-clean-glass

 

[frithy]

Having made Chinese/Asian rice wine a number of times before I got into brewing beer, and before I ever bought StarSan, I can tell you that hot tap water and a clean paper towel is all that is needed and all that I ever used. The yeast balls for this kind of brew are as suspect as you can get, no where near as well packaged (or pure) as any thing like US-05 and such, and the jar is simply covered with cloth and a rubber band. It is as low-tech and low effort as you can get (outside of having to cook the sticky rice before hand).

I would now just do a sanitizer cycle in my dishwasher at this point.

We don't know that the OP is using whatever "yeast balls" you found in California. He could very well being using something like

or

or

or, you know, any of hundreds of professional Chinese wine starters that have very high levels of purity. Further, even if he was using some traditional yeast mother, would you talk about how "suspect" it was like you are now if it was Scandanavian Kveik or perhaps you only reserve this type of thinking for things prefixed with "Chinese".

 

[MaxStout]

Meanwhile ... OP took advice given in post #2 ... put a diluted bleach solution in the carboy , rinsed it out fermented their rice wine and drank it , and moved on

Bah! Answering a question and simply leaving it at that is not the HBT way. What fun is it if we can't run off on several tangents?

 

[frithy]

Bah! Answering a question and simply leaving it at that is not the HBT way. What fun is it if we can't run off on several tangents?

Haha, exactly!

Still though, I'm wanting to argue a bit, but it's like walking a tightrope trying to avoid being moderated. #The-struggle-is-real

 

[MrClint]

@frithy, so much the better if higher quality yeast can be found. That wasn't really my point. I'm only speaking from my own experience which would indicate that the same level of sanitization, care and vigilance used in brewing beer (air locks, StarSan, yeast sourcing, etc) isn't really all that important for making traditional rice wine. By all means do what gives you confidence, and feel free to disregard my input and experience. I will gladly remove my post if it causes a great deal of confusion, or if my clarification causes controversy.

 

[balrog]

Bah! Answering a question and simply leaving it at that is not the HBT way. What fun is it if we can't run off on several tangents?

Tis the honor of the forum at hand, gents! Tangents are truth, life, and the way of the

Carry on.

 

[day_trippr]

"This is not Argument, this is Abuse!"



Anyway...

Cheers!

 

[frithy]

@frithy, so much the better if higher quality yeast can be found. That wasn't really my point. I'm only speaking from my own experience which would indicate that the same level of sanitization, care and vigilance used in brewing beer (air locks, StarSan, yeast sourcing, etc) isn't really all that important for making traditional rice wine. By all means do what gives you confidence, and feel free to disregard my input and experience. I will gladly remove my post if it causes a great deal of confusion, or if my clarification causes controversy.

No, no, no. Actually, I think pedantic sanitizing in general is over-rated. Why was I arguing then? Simple: I'm not the type of man to stand idly by while the reputation of yeasty Chinese balls are on the line.

Wherever evil lurks, wherever the forces of darkness threaten humanity, wherever there are those questioning yeasty Chinese balls, I'll be there.

 

[MrClint]

Wherever evil lurks, wherever the forces of darkness threaten humanity, wherever there are those questioning yeasty Chinese balls, I'll be there.

You could do a great service by providing some links to resources for better rice wine yeast. I had to buy some yeast balls from Ebay - from someone in the USA -- that really were sketchy. Not a single part of that has anything to do with any of the "-isms." You shared pictures of wine yeast that I have never seen before. How do we get some of those?

 

[day_trippr]

Words to live by...

Cheers!

 

[BrewZer]

bleach is not a very good sanitizer.

Found the Star San salesman.

I have to chime in again, I thought something was wrong with mixing bleach and vinegar - yup. PLEASE DO NOT MIX BLEACH AND VINEGAR. While doing so will make it a stronger disinfectant, doing so WILL RELEASE CHLORINE GAS.

Even small amounts of chlorine gas can be dangerous. and the small increase in efficiency does not outweigh the health risks.

https://doh.wa.gov/community-and-environment/contaminants/bleach-mixing-dangers

Wow. Well, at least he admitted he doesn't know anything about chemistry.

I'll just keep on using my dilute bleach solution to soak my bottles, fermenter, spigots and tubing, and go another 20 years without an infection...

 

[KillahBeast]

Meanwhile ... OP took advice given in post #2 ... put a diluted bleach solution in the carboy , rinsed it out fermented their rice wine and drank it , and moved on

Yes, did the same. I think it's doing great. ..