Getting a handle on cleaning routines

[Davidckahn]

I just started brewing and have done only one brew so far, and that turned out rather sour…not to the point of being undrinkable, but something obviously contaminated my first batch and I’d like to avoid that again. So please bear with me, as I’m about to ask a lot of newbie questions as I try to nail down a routine.

I’m learning that cleaning is 90% of brewing, and have come up with what I believe is a proper cleaning routine, but please tell me if anything I’m doing here is overkill or, more importantly, if something is missing.

Before brew:

1.) Sanitize fermenter with StarSan.
2.) Dump solution into bottling bucket and put yeast packet, scissors, and air lock into solution.

After brew:

1.) Put Oxiclean solution into kettle and let sit overnight.
2.) After checking OG, spray nozzle with sanitizer solution.

Before bottling:

1.) Sanitize bottling bucket with StarSan.
2.) Dump solution into a third bucket.
3.) Run all bottles, caps, transfer hose, and bottler, through StarSan solution.

After bottling:

1.) Fill fermenter and bottling bucket with 5 gallons of Oxiclean solution and let sit overnight, with transfer hose, bottler, and airlock in solution.
2.) Take spigots off and let them sit in Oxiclean solution for while.
3.) Let equipment dry, and store with tin foil covering tops of buckets.

Am I forgetting anything? Anything above not necessary?

Some other questions I’m not really sure about:

—When cleaning/sanitizing, is there ever need to wipe anything down with a rag? What should I be scrubbing the buckets and the kettle with?
—Do I need to use Oxiclean or some equivalent solution on the bottles after they’ve had beer in them?
—My fermenter still smells like beer after cleaning. Is this normal? If not, what did I do wrong?

These are the first of what I’m sure will be many questions. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

 

[sdbbp]

No rags. Air dry after cleaning. Embrace the foam when sanitizing with StarSan.

For reusing bottles, I rinse immediately. Bottles also eventually go through a PBW soak, but that's since I'm delabeling certain commercial bottles to add to the collection. Rinse again. Store upside down. Then StarSan as part of bottling day.

With PBW, and I assume with oxiclean, you didn't mention rinsing well afterwards. I think that's important.

Sanitize valves and spigots in open and closed positions.

My plastic fermenter smells like hops. I hear that's inevitable.

 

[mac_1103]

Disagree on rags - mopping things with a dish towel soaked in starsan works fine. So does spraying things with a spray bottle filled with working solution. There is no need to fill a fermenter to the brim to sanitize it.

You can't sanitize anything that isn't cleaned first. But be careful not to scratch any plastic fermenters when cleaning them. Wash with a soft rag or sponge; nothing abrasive. Bacteria can hide in scratches and be very difficult to kill when they do. Spigots can also hide infections. Make sure you run cleaning and sanitizing solutions through them (in the half-open position). Most of the plastic ones can be taken apart and you'd be surprised at how much gunk is inside a "clean" spigot after a few brews. Infections can also hide in the gaskets.

But an infection on a first brew with new equipment is different. Everything except maybe the bottles should have been pretty clean out of the box. Or maybe your equipment isn't new?

 

[RM-MN]

But an infection on a first brew with new equipment is different. Everything except maybe the bottles should have been pretty clean out of the box. Or maybe your equipment isn't new?

Maybe it isn't an infection. Maybe it is the yeast. I tried a Kveik Lutra and it left a sour taste in my finished beer.

 

[mac_1103]

Maybe it isn't an infection.

Good point.

 

[Deadalus]

Disagree on rags - mopping things with a dish towel soaked in starsan works fine. So does spraying things with a spray bottle filled with working solution. There is no need to fill a fermenter to the brim to sanitize it.

You can't sanitize anything that isn't cleaned first. But be careful not to scratch any plastic fermenters when cleaning them. Wash with a soft rag or sponge; nothing abrasive. Bacteria can hide in scratches and be very difficult to kill when they do. Spigots can also hide infections. Make sure you run cleaning and sanitizing solutions through them (in the half-open position). Most of the plastic ones can be taken apart and you'd be surprised at how much gunk is inside a "clean" spigot after a few brews. Infections can also hide in the gaskets.

But an infection on a first brew with new equipment is different. Everything except maybe the bottles should have been pretty clean out of the box. Or maybe your equipment isn't new?

Good points all except I disagree with using any cloth run through the laundry to wipe starsan on. It's not unusual to have human or pet hair stuck to cloth after coming out of the dryer. The dryer doesn't catch all the lint either.

 

[doug293cz]

Overnight soaking in Oxyclean or PBW is not necessary. If you use hot water, an hour is usually sufficient. Clean your equipment before anything has a chance to dry completely after brewing or fermenting. Vinyl and silicone tubing should not be soaked for long periods of time in either cleaning or sanitizing solutions.

Brew on

 

[DonT]

I use microfiber rags to dry wet stuff all the time, including my SS fermenter. Haven't had an issue yet.... just make sure the cold side gets a good starsan soak prior to use.

 

[mac_1103]

I disagree with using any cloth run through the laundry to wipe starsan on. It's not unusual to have human or pet hair stuck to cloth after coming out of the dryer. The dryer doesn't catch all the lint either.

But at least it's clean hair and lint when it comes out of the dryer. And sanitized hair and lint after the starsan hits it.

 

[Davidckahn]

Thanks everyone for the advice, especially the bit about not necessarily being an infection that caused the sour taste. How can you tell if it’s an infection or just the kind of yeast you used? Is there a good reference page anyone recommends for what kind of yeast to use based on the style of beer?

 

[Deadalus]

I use microfiber rags to dry wet stuff all the time, including my SS fermenter. Haven't had an issue yet.... just make sure the cold side gets a good starsan soak prior to use.

If you want to dry stuff no big deal as long it gets hit with Starsan as sort of a rinse. I personally hate drying any dishes or equipment. I've got enough laundry and dishes to clean without having to dry them, that's what air is for!

But at least it's clean hair and lint when it comes out of the dryer. And sanitized hair and lint after the starsan hits it.

That's what I say about the towels and wash rags, sheets and blankets, they're as clean as the rest of the clothes. I'll stick to the spray bottle and semi to full soak for sanitizing. Hair of the dog is a great hangover helper anyway!

 

[mashdar]

Re yeast packs, I've seen people talk about sanitizing them, but IMO a clean, dry yeast pack us unlikely to transfer microcrobes.

I re-use yeast for years with 2-6 months between batches, and have not had an issue with contamination from yeast packaging.

I'd be more worried if it's wet that my hands will contaminate something. (I should wear gloves?)

 

[mac_1103]

How can you tell if it’s an infection or just the kind of yeast you used? Is there a good reference page anyone recommends for what kind of yeast to use based on the style of beer?

Maybe if you give us some details about your recipe (including the yeast you used) and brewing process we might have some ideas about what could have gone wrong besides cleaning and sanitizing.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Any advice is appreciated.

Good luck on brewing! I am in Northern Virginia.

It would be hard to critique the specific steps of a cleaning and sanitization routine.

On the hot side (anything before chilling your wort) make sure all your equipment is clean. Treat this equipment like your dishes, and plates...clean them after use, let them dry, and put them away. Maybe give them a rinse before use if they are a little dusty.

Then make sure any equipment that touches the wort/beer from then on is both clean and sanitized. Equipment must be clean to be effectively sanitized. If using Starsan, the equipment just needs to be damp for 30-60 seconds after a spray or a dunk for the sanitizer to work. I generally recommend you have dedicated cold side equipment and focus on materials that are easy to clean and sanitize such as stainless or glass (not glass carboys, but say a glass measuring cup). Don't use kitchen utensils like plastic spoons or a baster unless they are dedicated to your brewing equipment. I use a mix of stainless and PET fermenters.

As mentioned, fermenter spigots can be a bit of a challenge to fully clean and sanitize. It is best to fully disassemble the parts which can be a challenge with some types of spigots. The effort needed for bottles can vary. I find some of my bottle conditioned beers take a soaking and a bottle brush, but keg filled or commercial beer bottles might just need a good rinse. Heating above 180F is also a very effective way to sanitize.

I'd be more worried if it's wet that my hands will contaminate something. (I should wear gloves?)

I think a lot of people do not understand the use of gloves. A surgeon or food server should put on a new pair of clean and sanitary gloves, then dispose of them when done. Gloves might be a little easier to clean and sanitize than your hands, but can also become contaminated just like your hands. Personally, I only use gloves with the goal of protecting my skin from harsh cleaners or sanitizers.

 

[refect]

Nothing is overkill when it comes to keeping your brewery/brewing equipment clean. Some good points listed in this thread. My only thing to add is to clean your brewing equipment sooner than later. I've been lazy (and too busy) a time or two, and put off cleaning some of my equipment (Fermenters after racking and kegs mostly). Every time I've done it, I wish I hadn't. Usually because it takes longer/more detail of a cleaning when it has been sitting for a long time.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Is there a good reference page anyone recommends for what kind of yeast to use based on the style of beer?

For dry yeast and for the brands that I use, Lallemand, Fermentis, and MJ offer suggestions at their web site. Depending on the brand, it's either on the product information page or in a product summary PDF.

 

[13ronin]

Cleaning and sanitizing importance certainly can't be overstated.

I'm from more the mead/cider side of brewing, what I do is a little different (and possibly old school? dunno just getting back to the hobby) but I haven't had any issues yet. Yes avoid scratching and abrasive materials on plastic.

I get sodium metabisulfite. Amazon has it. This is also used by us wine/cider/mead guys to stop fermentation before bottling to stop fermentation and preserve some natural sugar if you don't want it to be too dry. it doesn't take much for that purpose... 1tablet for 5 gallons will do it, but for sanitizing I go much harder.

I use it in powder form and put like a heaping tablespoon in about a qt of water and stir it to dissolve it. I'll use rag, sponge, paper towels etc and wipe EVERYTHING that gonna contact the must. My primary buckets, lids, utensils, hydrometer, inside of tubing, everything. then I rinse it out thoroughly and set aside till I'm ready to use it.

After I'm done, I wipe all my equipment down again and rinse it before putting it away for next use. The only thing i get a scrubby anything after are my glass carboys, which I scrub with a carboy brush after racking... then sanitize again before storage. When I go to use them next time, they should theoretically be clean, but I put some powder in them with a little water and slosh around again then rinse just to be sure.

As for yeast, I don't know anything about beer yeasts. I tend to use yeast that will go to high ABV (think 18%). I think this also helps with contamination because it's so damned aggressive it'll out compete a lot of stuff too.

Just food for thought, but I'd welcome input fm others. like I said I'm just getting back into this after like 15 years so I'm a little rusty.

 

[Brewer Mike]

How can you tell if it’s an infection or just the kind of yeast you used?

Join a homebrew club if there's on near you. You don't have to be intimidated being a beginner. We love helping newbies become successful. You can bring some of your beer and have experienced people evaluate it and tell you what's wrong and offer suggestions.
My club has a bunch of people that are focused on competitions, and are BJCP certified judges. I've learned a ton from them.

 

[Jim R]

My sense is that it is pretty easy to avoid infected batches. You are right that a large part of home brewing is cleaning but it seems to me that you have to be pretty negligent to get an infected batch. If one just does some reasonable and careful cleaning right after each step of the brewing process and then sloshes around sanitizer at the appropriate time, you will be fine. You must be pretty careful and compulsive to come up with your initial list of cleaning steps. I doubt you will ever get an infected batch.

 

[mashdar]

My sense is that it is pretty easy to avoid infected batches. You are right that a large part of home brewing is cleaning but it seems to me that you have to be pretty negligent to get an infected batch. If one just does some reasonable and careful cleaning right after each step of the brewing process and then sloshes around sanitizer at the appropriate time, you will be fine. You must be pretty careful and compulsive to come up with your initial list of cleaning steps. I doubt you will ever get an infected batch.

I'll go the other way:

There are tons more infections than people realize, but most are swamped by the huge dose of yeast we're pitching. There are not many bugs that can eat long sugars in the presence of hops, alcohol, acid, etc.

If you don't re-use yeast, you need a truly massive innoculation to detect an infection.