Robobrew/Brewzilla Discussion

[Sidman]

Question for the group...is anyone raising their 65L up...and if so how?

Last time out I was gonna put it on a 6 ft table but after I realized how high it was I chickened out...I ended up stacking three foldable tables and put it up there so I wouldn't have to bend down so far for the controller. My biggest concern is lifting the malt pipe and sparging. While I have invested in a pulley I would still need to get up for the sparge.

Any ideas/recommendations?

I ended up installing one of these over the space and so far it's working out great.

Ironton winch

 

[Sidman]

Two questions for everyone...Just ran my third batch on a 65l V 3.1.1 and I have noticed that at even at low flow levels I am getting wort up to the overflow pretty quickly. First batch was a wheat and it was so bad i stopped recirculating and it scorched the wort. The second batch was better but still very slow circulation. The third batch today was an NEIPA. I put in a pound of rice hulls and still the same issue. I am milling my grains to .4 and using a liquor to grist at 1.25 to keep from overflowing the handle holes. So first question - has there been different screens along the way and kegland has just gone finer? if so, anyone have any ideas on getting a little coarser screen? Secondly, I notice a lot of protein build up under the false bottom. Is anyone out there not using the false bottom? I mean if you have the top screen on, use a hop spider, do you really need the false bottom?

Thanks for any help you can give!
Sid

 

[Sammy86]

Two questions for everyone...Just ran my third batch on a 65l V 3.1.1 and I have noticed that at even at low flow levels I am getting wort up to the overflow pretty quickly. First batch was a wheat and it was so bad i stopped recirculating and it scorched the wort. The second batch was better but still very slow circulation. The third batch today was an NEIPA. I put in a pound of rice hulls and still the same issue. I am milling my grains to .4 and using a liquor to grist at 1.25 to keep from overflowing the handle holes. So first question - has there been different screens along the way and kegland has just gone finer? if so, anyone have any ideas on getting a little coarser screen? Secondly, I notice a lot of protein build up under the false bottom. Is anyone out there not using the false bottom? I mean if you have the top screen on, use a hop spider, do you really need the false bottom?

Thanks for any help you can give!
Sid

I think your problem may lie in the grist/water ratio. You have a pretty thick mash...On my most recent mash I went up to 3 qt./pound and while it was a ton of water my efficiency was 83%. I truly believe you need to use a thinner mash with this machine in order to get the most out of it.

From watching Aussie brewers on Youtube their standard grist/water ratio is 2.0/lbs

FWIW, i milled my grain at .034 and didn't mean to mash so thin...but it worked out great. On the next brew day I'm going to stick with 2.0 qts/lb.

 

[RePete]

So, I tried the "Let It Flow" method this past weekend. It worked reasonably well. I put the top screen, jacket, and lid on, and opened up the recirculation valve. Not all the way. It was maybe 3/4 open. Enough that there was constant flow down the center pipe. No problems with grain in the wort, or clogging anything up. I haven't calculated efficiency, but OG was 5 points above the predicted 1.070 at 1.075. Having it all closed up, and flowing, I have to think that the heat was well contained and distributed.

 

[rjhoff]

So, I tried the "Let It Flow" method this past weekend. It worked reasonably well. I put the top screen, jacket, and lid on, and opened up the recirculation valve. Not all the way. It was maybe 3/4 open. Enough that there was constant flow down the center pipe. No problems with grain in the wort, or clogging anything up. I haven't calculated efficiency, but OG was 5 points above the predicted 1.070 at 1.075. Having it all closed up, and flowing, I have to think that the heat was well contained and distributed.

Results seem excellent. Any concerns with that process?

 

[RePete]

Results seem excellent. Any concerns with that process?

None that I could tell.

 

[WonkyDonkey]

What was the size of the grainbill / mash water on this batch?
I'm yet to do a high gravity brew and trying to gauge how far I can push it to maximise volume vs drop in efficiency

 

[chipmunk]

So, I tried the "Let It Flow" method this past weekend. It worked reasonably well. I put the top screen, jacket, and lid on, and opened up the recirculation valve. Not all the way. It was maybe 3/4 open. Enough that there was constant flow down the center pipe. No problems with grain in the wort, or clogging anything up. I haven't calculated efficiency, but OG was 5 points above the predicted 1.070 at 1.075. Having it all closed up, and flowing, I have to think that the heat was well contained and distributed.

Very cool! I meant to brew last w/e but messed up my last online order. Did you keep the same mash set points on the controller? Or measure directly and adjust? It will be interesting to see what your FG will be - if it’s higher than usual it might indicate higher overall temperatures.

 

[RePete]

The grain bill was 14.5 lbs. Post boil volume was 5.75 gallons. This time I didn't step mash. It was set to 154* for an hour. This was a Zombie Dust recipe I have done quite a few times. Except this time I used Chinook hops. And this new (to me) lager yeast, Mangrove Jack's M54 California Lager Yeast. It is suppose to like fermentation temps in the 60's. It was actively fermenting the next morning. Good so far.

 

[RePete]

Very cool! I meant to brew last w/e but messed up my last online order. Did you keep the same mash set points on the controller? Or measure directly and adjust? It will be interesting to see what your FG will be - if it’s higher than usual it might indicate higher overall temperatures.

I just used the temperature readout on the display. When it’s all buckled up like that, it’s not so easy to get a thermometer in there.

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

First time brewer here, only brewed 2 batches in my life and so far have only got 1 of 2 bottled so Im very new to brewing beer.

Couple questions about the Brewzilla...

1) Do you drain the wort from the pump or the spigot or does it matter.

2) whats the best method to drain the wort without getting lots of hops and cold/hot break particulate. Ie whats your proceedure after flame out to get the clearest wort. How long and when do you whirlpool with or without the whirlpool arm and does it matter.

The 2 batches ive done so far came out with ok clarity but wondering if they should have less sediment or if anyone really cares that much seeing as how it should all settle out during fermentation and through adding finings.

 

[RePete]

First time brewer here, only brewed 2 batches in my life and so far have only got 1 of 2 bottled so Im very new to brewing beer.

Couple questions about the Brewzilla...

1) Do you drain the wort from the pump or the spigot or does it matter.

2) whats the best method to drain the wort without getting lots of hops and cold/hot break particulate. Ie whats your proceedure after flame out to get the clearest wort. How long and when do you whirlpool with or without the whirlpool arm and does it matter.

The 2 batches ive done so far came out with ok clarity but wondering if they should have less sediment or if anyone really cares that much seeing as how it should all settle out during fermentation and through adding finings.

I use the spigot to drain. It is set up off the floor high enough to do that. I suppose you could use the pump, depending on your situation.

As far as whirlpool goes. The unit comes with a recirculation arm. There is a separate whirlpool arm you can buy. So I’m not sure which you have. I just have the one that comes with it. At the end of boil, I put the immersion coil into the kettle. Hook it up, but don’t turn it on. I leave the jacket on to hold heat. Then add hops. It’s usually down around 190* by this point. I just let it sit and steep for about a half hour, until the temp drops below 170*. The. I take the jacket off and start to cool. I find doing it this way gets more flavor out of the late addition hops.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I just received my BrewZilla 65 yesterday. Now that I have it, I’m confused about the dead space loss. I will be connecting a counterflow chiller into the recirculation arm, and pumping the cooled wort direct into the fermenter.

Seeing as the pump draws the wort from the bottom of the kettle, then it would seem I will be able to draw all the wort out of the kettle. So I don’t understand where this dead space comes into play. Especially some of the quoted figures of several litres worth of loss. Is it perhaps to do with draining the wort out of the side tap, which is positioned above the bottom of the unit?

 

[Sammy86]

1) Do you drain the wort from the pump or the spigot or does it matter.

i drain the wort with pump into a CFC into the fermentor...a little aeration to help give the yeasts a good environment to thrive in.

2) whats the best method to drain the wort without getting lots of hops and cold/hot break particulate. Ie whats your proceedure after flame out to get the clearest wort. How long and when do you whirlpool with or without the whirlpool arm and does it matter.

I don't worry about it to be honest. Everything settles in the fermentor. I use a paint strainer bag for my hops...although i do plan on getting the whirlpool arm eventually so I can toss in the hops freely.

 

[Sammy86]

I just received my BrewZilla 65 yesterday. Now that I have it, I’m confused about the dead space loss. I will be connecting a counterflow chiller into the recirculation arm, and pumping the cooled wort direct into the fermenter.

Seeing as the pump draws the wort from the bottom of the kettle, then it would seem I will be able to draw all the wort out of the kettle. So I don’t understand where this dead space comes into play. Especially some of the quoted figures of several litres worth of loss. Is it perhaps to do with draining the wort out of the side tap, which is positioned above the bottom of the unit?

I put my dead space at 0 since like you said the pump draws everything out...haven't had any issues thus far but like I said above i use a paint strainer bag for my hops so I don't worry about losing anything.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I put my dead space at 0 since like you said the pump draws everything out...haven't had any issues thus far but like I said above i use a paint strainer bag for my hops so I don't worry about losing anything.

Ok, thanks. I thought I was miss understanding what dead space loss is because I couldn’t see any loss using the BrewZilla.

I bought a hop basket so I’ll see how that works out for me.

 

[CUSTOM-441]

More experimenting... more discussion...

I decided not to use the top screen on today's brew to make it easier to stir the mash. In the past I always checked the wort temp above the top screen with a probe thermometer and cross-referenced that to the Robobrew. It was always fairly close - usually within a degree. Since I had access to the mash this time, I stuck the probe into the mash bed and I was surprised to find the temp was off by quite a bit. Sometimes the mash was 4°F higher than the robo, other times it was 2°F higher. I took notes and averaged the temp difference to be +2.75°F to the robo.

I've been hitting all my numbers lately so I'm hesitant to calibrate my Robobrew for the temperature difference. I'm still brewing, so I'll see how things end up today. Has anyone else noticed this, or had to calibrate their units?

 

[Sammy86]

More experimenting... more discussion...

I decided not to use the top screen on today's brew to make it easier to stir the mash. In the past I always checked the wort temp above the top screen with a probe thermometer and cross-referenced that to the Robobrew. It was always fairly close - usually within a degree. Since I had access to the mash this time, I stuck the probe into the mash bed and I was surprised to find the temp was off by quite a bit. Sometimes the mash was 4°F higher than the robo, other times it was 2°F higher. I took notes and averaged the temp difference to be +2.75°F to the robo.

I've been hitting all my numbers lately so I'm hesitant to calibrate my Robobrew for the temperature difference. I'm still brewing, so I'll see how things end up today. Has anyone else noticed this, or had to calibrate their units?

I calibrated it the last time I brewed...i put water in and let it settle and the robobrew came in 2 degrees higher than my go to oxo digital temp...i calibrated it and measured during the mash without the top screen and both matched up.

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

More experimenting... more discussion...

I decided not to use the top screen on today's brew to make it easier to stir the mash. In the past I always checked the wort temp above the top screen with a probe thermometer and cross-referenced that to the Robobrew. It was always fairly close - usually within a degree. Since I had access to the mash this time, I stuck the probe into the mash bed and I was surprised to find the temp was off by quite a bit. Sometimes the mash was 4°F higher than the robo, other times it was 2°F higher. I took notes and averaged the temp difference to be +2.75°F to the robo.

I've been hitting all my numbers lately so I'm hesitant to calibrate my Robobrew for the temperature difference. I'm still brewing, so I'll see how things end up today. Has anyone else noticed this, or had to calibrate their units?

Ive seen the same thing in a few mashes ive done (contrary to to my above post Ive brewed a few times for whiskey) and recirculating helps balance the temp but I dont trust the temp sensor on the bottom. I read somewhere, could have been here, that the temp sensor is on the bottom so it doesn't overheat and scorch, but its a pain when the robobrew is sitting on the ground and stirring the mash to check the temp with a dip stick style thermometer is awkward. Even if you calibrated the temp it could still be off and you wouldn't know, so I've just got in the habit of checking the temp from the top and allow the sensor on the bottom to work as an overheat alarm. Once the mash recirculates for a bit the temp evens out but not convenient when mashing in.

 

[rjhoff]

I find the RB sensor aligns with reference thermometers when I calibrate in hot water. I see quite a difference though in comparing the RB sensor to the mash temp, it can be as much as 6 deg different. But this makes sense as the mash has a huge thermal mass compared to the space below the false bottom which is close to the heating elements. I always monitor mash temp from the top, view the bottom space as a kind of hot liquor tank, and turn on the recirculation when I need to warm up the mash (If I’m not recirculating already).

 

[RePete]

It seems to me that there are a couple basic approaches here. One is to have the lid on, use the top screen, and keep the recirculation pump running. In theory this should maintain heat, and help keep it evenly distributed. The other is to stir, which requires having the upper part open, which leads to heat loss. So you measure and compensate. Either works, just depends on which suits your personality type.

 

[rjhoff]

It seems to me that there are a couple basic approaches here. One is to have the lid on, use the top screen, and keep the recirculation pump running. In theory this should maintain heat, and help keep it evenly distributed. The other is to stir, which requires having the upper part open, which leads to heat loss. So you measure and compensate. Either works, just depends on which suits your personality type.

Agree. I have little trouble managing mash temp with the lid off and jacket on. No one approach is wrong if your brew day is successful!

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I’m running my BrewZilla 65 with water for the first time. It seems nice and intuitive to use.

Contrary to what I said a few posts back, I see now with the pump flange on the bottom of the unit sticking up a little, that you can’t get all the liquid back out of it. I poured in a few litres of water, pumped it back out, and there was 2 litres of water left in the unit that wouldn’t pump out because it was below the level of the pump flange on the bottom of the unit. So I guess I call this 2 litres my dead loss. Is that correct?

I noticed the volume gauge stamped on the inside over reads by about half a litre, so not too bad. My temperature reading over reads by 1C, so again not too bad, and I’ve corrected that. Does anyone know if that calibration correction stays in there permanently after switching the unit off?

 

[Sammy86]

Contrary to what I said a few posts back, I see now with the pump flange on the bottom of the unit sticking up a little, that you can’t get all the liquid back out of it. I poured in a few litres of water, pumped it back out, and there was 2 litres of water left in the unit that wouldn’t pump out because it was below the level of the pump flange on the bottom of the unit. So I guess I call this 2 litres my dead loss. Is that correct?

You can...or you tilt the unit like i do and get every last drop!

 

[Cloud Surfer]

You can...or you tilt the unit like i do and get every last drop!

Ah, yes, so true.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Another question. There’s around 10 litres of space under the malt pipe. Just say I use a mash ratio of 2.5L/kg. That’s 12.5 litres for a 5kg grain bill. It seems apparent to me now that I need to add 22.5 litres of water for the mash. Otherwise, I will essentially be trying to mash in 2.5L of water.

 

[Sammy86]

Another question. There’s around 10 litres of space under the malt pipe. Just say I use a mash ratio of 2.5L/kg. That’s 12.5 litres for a 5kg grain bill. It seems apparent to me now that I need to add 22.5 litres of water for the mash. Otherwise, I will essentially be trying to mash in 2.5L of water.

I work in gallons so bare with me...remember that space underneath will be circulated back on top and down the pipe again...from what I've read the metric folk use a 3L/kg ratio.

this very topic has been discussed in this thread as well...I used 3 qts/pound of grain last time and it was way way too much water...mash was super thin but I got great efficiency...I'm going to stick with thinner mashes and go with 2 gal/pound...i saw this gentleman do the same here and it worked out just fine.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I work in gallons so bare with me...remember that space underneath will be circulated back on top and down the pipe again...from what I've read the metric folk use a 3L/kg ratio.

I did consider it will be recirculated. I was mostly concerned when I realised there would only be 2.5L of water in the bottom of the malt pipe to mash the grains in. The video you linked has him using the 3L/kg ratio plus 10L, so maybe I’m on the right track.

I read this entire thread a while ago. I better go back over it again now I’ve got my own unit.

 

[rjhoff]

I work in gallons so bare with me...remember that space underneath will be circulated back on top and down the pipe again...from what I've read the metric folk use a 3L/kg ratio.

this very topic has been discussed in this thread as well...I used 3 gal/pound of grain last time and it was way way too much water...mash was super thin but I got great efficiency...I'm going to stick with thinner mashes and go with 2 gal/pound...i saw this gentleman do the same here and it worked out just fine.

I think your units are quart/lb... I default to 1.7 quart/lb using BeerSmith although I have the 35L so space for water can be a premium. I also tilt the brewer when I’m racking to the fermenter...

 

[RePete]

I had kind of assumed that we all tilted it to get the last little bit out.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I had kind of assumed that we all tilted it to get the last little bit out.

I sure would.

 

[Sammy86]

I think your units are quart/lb... I default to 1.7 quart/lb using BeerSmith although I have the 35L so space for water can be a premium. I also tilt the brewer when I’m racking to the fermenter...

You are correct, great catch! Fixed!

 

[rjhoff]

I had kind of assumed that we all tilted it to get the last little bit out.

To be honest, it took me a couple brew sessions to figure that out
:-o

 

[CUSTOM-441]

I find the RB sensor aligns with reference thermometers when I calibrate in hot water. I see quite a difference though in comparing the RB sensor to the mash temp, it can be as much as 6 deg different. But this makes sense as the mash has a huge thermal mass compared to the space below the false bottom which is close to the heating elements. I always monitor mash temp from the top, view the bottom space as a kind of hot liquor tank, and turn on the recirculation when I need to warm up the mash (If I’m not recirculating already).

I've noticed the same thing, but the mash's higher thermal mass makes total sense. Since I started stirring I may just leave the calibration alone for a few more brews and see how it goes. After my brew day when I noticed this I hit my pre-boil OG bang on, and my post-boil OG was a couple points high

 

[Sammy86]

A little insight into our favorite all-in-one system Gen 4...coming 2021!



Talks about Gen 4 at 1:18:00

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I was going to hold off for the V4 because it sounds like it has some nice features. Especially the screen at the top of the unit. But I talked to KegLand and they are having problems releasing it, and it won’t be available until at least mid year. I couldn’t wait that long so I just got the V3.1.1.

 

[RePete]

I was going to hold off for the V4 because it sounds like it has some nice features. Especially the screen at the top of the unit. But I talked to KegLand and they are having problems releasing it, and it won’t be available until at least mid year. I couldn’t wait that long so I just got the V3.1.1.

Do you know what all the improvements are with v4?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Do you know what all the improvements are with v4?

Sounds like data-logging.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Do you know what all the improvements are with v4?

Well I think the screen at the top is a big improvement. A more advanced system with data logging and connectivity options. The power lead disconnects, which I guess is handy when cleaning. I can’t recall any other features just now.

 

[RePete]

Well I think the screen at the top is a big improvement. A more advanced system with data logging and connectivity options. The power lead disconnects, which I guess is handy when cleaning. I can’t recall any other features just now.

I didn't watch the whole thing. Just the part about data logging. Is bit about the top screen in this video?

I did another batch yesterday using the top screen, and opening up the flow. It works, and I didn't get any clogging.