RIMS for Dummies

[Ohio-Ed]

Which one of you to believe? LOL

Yea, I gotta learn to ignore the work falling down around me and pay more attention to HBT. Had I been a little quicker, maybe we wouldn't have both answered. But at least I think we both said the same thing

Ed

 

[pickles]

Yea, I gotta learn to ignore the work falling down around me and pay more attention to HBT. Had I been a little quicker, maybe we wouldn't have both answered. But at least I think we both said the same thing

Ed

No no! You're way off!

 

[Dave258]

That is one of the best things about this site! So many knowledgeable people ready to answer questions and help!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

That is one of the best things about this site! So many knowledgeable people ready to answer questions and help!

One thing I did see in the responses... Reelale said he used a thermocouple.

Thermocouples will work fine, but thermocouples use special wire. Splices and connectors require special attention. You might want to look into RTD's which are not as sensitive to changes to the wire. Auber PID's should support either.

Ed

 

[Reelale]

One thing I did see in the responses... Reelale said he used a thermocouple.

Thermocouples will work fine, but thermocouples use special wire. Splices and connectors require special attention. You might want to look into RTD's which are not as sensitive to changes to the wire. Auber PID's should support either.

Ed

Yep, that's a great point. In retrospect, I probably should have gone with an RTD for ease of disconnects. Although with the lead on the one from Auber, it's a single run to the control box with enough slack to remove from the RIMS tube for periodic cleaning. And I also noticed that Auber sells the matched-wire jacks for Type J and K thermocouples. I do believe that RTD to be a tad more precise, but probably not noticeable in our application.

 

[Dave258]

Ok guys, I have been thinking about this all night. I want to start ordering things so that everything is here by the time my stand and RIMS tube arrive.
I have been checking out Auberins.com, and think I am going to go with the 1/4 DIN PID, with a 25A SSR and heat sink. This Thermocouple.
Now in my control box, I want to have the PID and guts for the RIMS, and a switch for my pump. In another thread I saw someone just bought a heavy duty extension cord and cut it using half for wiring, and the other half as the cord/plug. Is that sufficient?
Would you just run the cord through the box, or would you use another recepticle to plug in the external cord?
Would you hard wire the pump in the box, or have a seperate outlet wired to the pump switch at the bottom of the box to plug the cord for the pump in.
Do I need to look for anything special in switches?
I guess the most important question first is can I run all this off of a regular 120V outlet? I was planning on getting a 120V 1500w LD element. Is ULD really any better? The elements are twice the price.
Is there anything else anyone can recommend I get??
Thanks

 

[klyph]

Your plan sounds good, a heavy extension cord should be able to handle the load of a pump and a 1500w element. I'd bring power to the box and then have two outlets on the box. One powered by the SSR for the element, and one powered by a switch for the pump. You can get weatherproof covers for standard household rocker switches. The LWD will work just fine, ULWD is a waste of money. I'd get the RTD probes over a thermocouple, much more accurate and precise.

 

[Dgonza9]

I bought a 12-3AWG outdoor cable. Wired it to a terminal block in the box and put a plug on the other end. I Cost me a bout $8 for the cord and another $10 for the plug and I have a 20 amp cord on my box.

Do you have a enclosure? I bought the metal enclosure from Auber with the pre-cut square hole for the PID. For $28 it was a pretty nice deal. I also found the outlets a challenge to cut out in a metal box. I wasn't able to get a 1 1/2" hole saw to bite. Some say a 1 3/8" Unibit will work. I wound up using my 1 1/8" unibit and a kind of rotary rasp tool.

Check out THIS THREAD if you need some more ideas for mounting the receptacles.

Oh, and if you do use an RTD, you'll have to change the PID settings as it's default is a thermcouple. Wasted some time before I figured this out.

Good luck. I love my RIMS. Kept my last mash within .1 degree of set temp.

 

[stlbeer]

After reading through this thread I finally decided to pull the trigger and build a RIMS. This will be a great addition to my brewery and help me make better beer.

The inspiration and education provided here are very helpful.

Pictures to be posted soon.

 

[tasq]

Hey gang - Quick question. I'm looking at buying this PID for my RIMS build: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=102

Do I want the one with a Relay Contactor, or SSR control? I'm assuming SSR control.

Thanks!

 

[JayInJersey]

SSR control is where it's at man :rockin:

 

[tasq]

Thanks for your reply!

 

[stlbeer]

Hey gang - Quick question. I'm looking at buying this PID for my RIMS build: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=102

Do I want the one with a Relay Contactor, or SSR control? I'm assuming SSR control.

Thanks!

The specs show both relay and SSR are available:

Output mode Relay Contact, 7A at 240VAC, 10A at 120VAC, 12VDC for SSR

Looks like it can handle both heating and cooling. Might be better used on a lagering fridge.

I plan on using this one: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

It's a bit less expensive and still offers both relay and SSR outputs plus it offers a learning mode.

 

[tasq]

The specs show both relay and SSR are available:

Output mode Relay Contact, 7A at 240VAC, 10A at 120VAC, 12VDC for SSR

Looks like it can handle both heating and cooling. Might be better used on a lagering fridge.

I plan on using this one: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

It's a bit less expensive and still offers both relay and SSR outputs plus it offers a learning mode.

Relay and SSR are options though. It does not come with both.

Which do I need for this RIMS setup?

 

[stlbeer]

SSR

Don't forget to get a heat sink.

 

[Dave258]

Relay and SSR are options though. It does not come with both.

Which do I need for this RIMS setup?

I am ordering the same one you linked in your post. I belive SSR is the right option.

 

[tasq]

Many thanks gents!

 

[pickles]

If your using a PID to control the heating element then the SSR is the only option. The switching is so fast and frequent that you'll burn up a mechanical relay in no time.

 

[stlbeer]

If your using a PID to control the heating element then the SSR is the only option. The switching is so fast and frequent that you'll burn up a mechanical relay in no time.

Got it.

 

[dutch101st]

Ok, so I have been reading and researching, much like this summer when I was trying to decide on to go HERMS or RIMS.

I am now kind of wishing I had gone RIMS (I ended up going HERMS). So having said that, I am going to make the switch over to a RIMS system, but slowly.

I have ordered my PID controller components- I think this is what I need from Auber (Let me know if I missed something):

Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

25A SSR
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=9

Heat Sink for 25 A SSR
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=45

Liquid tight K type, 4 in probe, 1/2 NPT Thread
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=165


Do I need to get a thermowell for the probe?

This project will slowly come to fruition- still have to build my RIMS tube and get the heating element. Then I will be building a new control box replete with a cooling fan and vents for the SSR heatsink. It will also be replete with aircraft switches (those rock!). The idea is not too much automation, but have the availability to if I want. I certainly want to get the wort recirculation efficency question solved- my temp control thought process is a bit flawed as I am using a RANCO (not working the way I thought it would)

Anyone have any other ideas, thoughts or input?

My current HERMS is this:

I figure without too much trouble I should be able to retrofit.

 

[klyph]

What don't you like about HERMS?

 

[dutch101st]

Just not the direction I wanted to go.

Plus I may have more temperature control using RIMS...the last time I brewed my temps were not hit and this is a regular occurance. Too much heat loss, then over shooting the temp, etc. It looks like for what I want to accomplish, RIMS is the way for me to go.

 

[bulldogxray]

Ok so I am in the process of upgrading my system. I was set on doing direct fire resirc like the brutus. After reading this thread I have some questions.

1. Do you use your burner to heat up your initial strike water to mash in, and then use your rims tube while you are resirculating to maintain mash temp?

2. Do you heat your sparge in your HLT and then use the Rims tube to keep the constant temp?

3. "Stainless steel RIMS tube with extra low density 120V 1500W element" is this for a basic 110 outlet?

Sorry not an electricity guy. If I understand this right then this seem seasier than buying asco valves and pilot lights to do direct fire.

 

[stlbeer]

Ok so I am in the process of upgrading my system. I was set on doing direct fire resirc like the brutus. After reading this thread I have some questions.

1. Do you use your burner to heat up your initial strike water to mash in, and then use your rims tube while you are resirculating to maintain mash temp?

2. Do you heat your sparge in your HLT and then use the Rims tube to keep the constant temp?

3. "Stainless steel RIMS tube with extra low density 120V 1500W element" is this for a basic 110 outlet?

Sorry not an electricity guy. If I understand this right then this seem seasier than buying asco valves and pilot lights to do direct fire.

1 & 2. I will heat strike and sparge water with propane burner and use the RIMS tube to keep the temp. Since I'm powering this with 110V it would take too long for it to bring the temp up where it needs to be.

3. Yes - 110v/120v - pretty much the same thing.

 

[dutch101st]

Thats what I do now with my HERMS and will be keeping the same line of thinking/process.

 

[bulldogxray]

very interesting. I think I might have to go this route. I looked at some vendors selling a rims tube it seemed a little pricey. I am not a big electrical guy so I am not sure I want to mess with building one. I will have to look around and see what I can find

 

[kegtoe]

So what are the typical threads of all of your elements?" I have seen a few (most maybe) that might be NPSM threads. From everything i have read NPSM threads (being straight) are not intended to fit with NPT thread (thats tapared). At the the very least, this is not an "ideal" fit for a water tight application. Are most of you just using a rather large amount of teflon to try and get a better fit.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

So what are the typical threads of all of your elements?" I have seen a few (most maybe) that might be NPSM threads. From everything i have read NPSM threads (being straight) are not intended to fit with NPT thread (thats tapared). At the the very least, this is not an "ideal" fit for a water tight application. Are most of you just using a rather large amount of teflon to try and get a better fit.

I just sold a RIMs heater based on this design (using NPT bushings) and never had any issues with leaks. I also have 2 elements in my HLT & BK with NPT Bushings and no issues there either.

 

[klyph]

If the NPT threads are cut deep enough to allow the NPS far enough that it seats the gasket, it will work great. If the threads bind before the gasket seats, bring on the teflon tape.

 

[ChuckO]

I just finished looking through my copy of the Machinery's Hand Book at the section concerning American Pipe Threads. The basic tolerance for taper pipe threads (NPT) is calculated as plus or minus one turn from the basic dimensions. Since the basic thread form is the same for both straight and taper pipe threads the mechanical straight thread (NPSM) on the heater element will fit with the taper thread on the fitting.

They will thread together far enough to seal on the gasket if the female fitting is tapped to the deeper end of tolerance. If the female fitting is tapped to the shallower end of tolerance then the threads will tighten before the gasket is sealed. Due to the thread form this will not produce a water tight joint without a sealer.

I borrowed a 1" NPSM pipe tap and ran it through the fittings on my RIMS tube (made from 1 1/2" pipe) to make certain that the joint would seal on the gasket. The tap only removed a very fine chip until it was well past the depth needed. In general it is quite possible to do a selective fit if you have 3 or 4 female couplings to try.