RIMS for Dummies

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The element I got from Lowes. There are NO "+" or "-" markings, and only two posts, so i'm a little confused on how to ground it.
 
The hot posts are interchangeable, it's just a big resistor. You'll have to make your own grounding lug on the vessel itself, there isn't one on the element.
 
Thanks. I thought they'd be interchangeable, just wanted to be sure. as of grounding on the vessle, like this?

2psommp.jpg
 
RIMS.jpg

This "top down" shot shows my RIMS, complete with ground wire attached.

I used two ss u-bolts to anchor my RIMS to a ghetto piece of 2/4, and attached the ground (green) to one of the U-bolts, making sure the "u" was in contact with the RIMS. Nice, safe, ground...
 
I want to applaud everybody that's building safety into their electric setups and grounding is obviously a huge safety factor.

I'm not knocking anybody, but wanted to toss out a couple concerns I have with grounding...

I think everyone pretty much understands the need to size the wire you use to the current it will carry. Some grounding methods that I have seen make me just a bit nervous. The termination, or connection point need to be a solid mechanical connection. Electrical connectors (lugs, terminals, etc...) are engineered to make the proper connection. It's not good enough to just have contact and continuity. In other words, just because you can see continuity using a meter, think about whether your connection would carry the full load of current required to trip a breaker, because if it doesn't then you essentially have no ground.

I'll say again.. I'm not taking a shot at anybody. I just see all the effort that folks are putting into building a rig, then just kinda not know how to ground a device and throw a band-aide at it. And I'm pretty sure that most would not mind putting a little more effort in, if they just thought about the ramifications.

Bottom line... Don't shortcut the ground.

Off my soapbox now... please carry on :mug:

Ed
 
Keep in mind it is very easy to soft solder stainless steel. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/soldering-stainless-steel-155782/ So when you get your rims tube oriented the way you like, you can just solder a ground lug to the rims tube. This connection can be removed later. Just heat it up and pull it off. I did it last night to my HLT and its a very solid connection. It also doesn't hurt to check every ground with a voltmeter to insure you have continuity between all your grounds.
 
This is a steel 1" nut. If I attached the ground to this, then theaded the element into this, then into the rims tube, would this work as solid ground? Just want to be safe

n5m2hv.jpg
 
Soft soldering is a good idea, p-nut. I just slipped the flat edge of a ground nut under my RIMS tube, but a soldered ground makes sense.

And ed... "preach it, brother..." Electricity has no sense of humor; you can't be too careful.
 
My RIMS tube is connected to my steel brew rig and is grounded that way; the control box, in which the main power comes in, is grounded to the rig frame as so the grounding circuit is complete for the RIMS tube. The heating element is also plugged into my control box as well (all of the outlets are grounded within the box a'la The Electric Brewery schemea).

I had originally placed silicone padding on the brackets holding the RIMS tube, then, just before I powered it up, looked at it and thought "You know, something just isn't right". You should be able to see on my video how it is set up now...when I video the next time I brew, I will make a point to do a close up as so you guys can see better (and in fact when I build out a new control box next month I will video the entire process as so you can see the inside for better reference...damn you Kal and your step by step guide on building out such an AWESOME control box!!).

I am glad I re-noodled it through...now I am running a safe brew rig. Us non-electrical engineer every day guys really need to be mindful to take the extra thought in designing and building these things.

Thank you to you guys who do this every day for your guidance and suggestions!
 
In all seriousness, has anyone ever been electrocuted by a brewing rig? Any confirmed reports? I'm not saying that it's never going to happen, in fact statistically it probably will. But I wonder who was or will be the first person to be killed by their brew rig.
 
big_al_in_k-zoo said:
This is a steel 1" nut. If I attached the ground to this, then theaded the element into this, then into the rims tube, would this work as solid ground? Just want to be safe

n5m2hv.jpg
Click to expand...

The concern is how you "attach" the ground. What are your thoughts on the connection? I'm not sure how you will make a solid mechanical connection to the nut... If you use Elmers glue, then it would not likely be a good ground. (I know you aren't planning to use Elmer's, just making a point). Remember just having the wire in contact is really not good enough... it may pass a continuity test with a meter, but not carry the current if/when it really needs to.

Ed
 
Question,

How do people ground a RIMS tube from Derrin at brewers hardware? Same concept? I am waiting for mine to arrive. I was speaking with a friend who does a lot of electrical work and recommended that since i will be brewing outsite, I should actually drive a grounding rod into the ground and connect it to the control box. He said if you do it any other way then that is considered a shortcut and it will shorten the life of your components. Any thoughts on this, was he bull****ting me?
 
pola0502ds said:
Question,

How do people ground a RIMS tube from Derrin at brewers hardware? Same concept? I am waiting for mine to arrive. I was speaking with a friend who does a lot of electrical work and recommended that since i will be brewing outsite, I should actually drive a grounding rod into the ground and connect it to the control box. He said if you do it any other way then that is considered a shortcut and it will shorten the life of your components. Any thoughts on this, was he bull****ting me?
Click to expand...

Derrin's tubes have a grounding lug welded onto the outside of the tube. I've never heard the grounding rod route. Seems like the established house circuit ground would be good enough.
 
pola0502ds said:
Question,

How do people ground a RIMS tube from Derrin at brewers hardware? Same concept? I am waiting for mine to arrive. I was speaking with a friend who does a lot of electrical work and recommended that since i will be brewing outsite, I should actually drive a grounding rod into the ground and connect it to the control box. He said if you do it any other way then that is considered a shortcut and it will shorten the life of your components. Any thoughts on this, was he bull****ting me?
Click to expand...

From Brewers Hardware: Both of the recommended changes have been implemented: a shorter NPS coupler to reduce dead space there and a grounding lug which is now welded to the NPS fitting.

BTW - A ground rod that is separate and independent from the electrical system is not a good idea.

Edit: Took too long to hit submit.
 
if your using a three prong plug and you are plugged into a three prong outlet AND your house/garage is wired correctly... it most likely has a grounding rod. I think older houses even used drain pipe as a ground because it was buried. Ground is ground, or it should be... otherwise you have a floating ground and that could cause problems.
 
Remember to use star washers or lock washers and two nuts on your grounding terminals. Remember to always use a ring terminal lug, not a spade lug.

As far as the gauge goes, I'd just do everything with 12 AWG if it were me for all 120/20A brew rigs, and 10AWG for 240/30 and 6AWG for 240/50.

Lastly having gone through my own RIMS "development cycle" during the last 6 months, use RTDs to measure temperature, most of the PIDs out there can accept the Pt100 type RTDs and they are much more fool-proof, reliable and precise.
 
I am going to go RTD on my next version of my control panel...think "The Electric Brewery Lite"- still only going to run 110v as I will only be running the RIMS tube, pumps, PID, and a timer- No 220v heating elements.

I have no 220v in my apartment as all of my appliances are gas driven- dryer, stove, etc. So it is still going to be just propane for me until such time as I buy a house (kinda nice calling someone to come out to fix stuff when broke at THEIR cost, not mine).
 
I used a SS hose clamp with a screw through it for my ground on the RIMS tube. After reading countless posts last year, the silver solder bug took hold and I did it right by soldering a copper ground lug onto my Tri-Clover fitting with the element.
 
dutch101st said:
I am going to go RTD on my next version of my control panel...think "The Electric Brewery Lite"- still only going to run 110v as I will only be running the RIMS tube, pumps, PID, and a timer- No 220v heating elements.

I have no 220v in my apartment as all of my appliances are gas driven- dryer, stove, etc. So it is still going to be just propane for me until such time as I buy a house (kinda nice calling someone to come out to fix stuff when broke at THEIR cost, not mine).
Click to expand...

I have not thought of putting a timer on my setup. What kind of timer did you use?
 
Couple of questions on RIMS elements. I've noticed a little rust forming at the the element base on mine. Is this a concern? How do you deal with it? I have one of Derrin's tubes, and there is also rust from the base in the SS threads of the tri-clover/element fitting.

Also, what are the 1500 W elements coated with? Zinc? Is this a concern?

Lastly, my rims is semi-permanently mounted to my pump. That means I recirculate through it while cooling with a plate chiller. OK? Or should I by-pass it on the cold side? Thanks.
 
Not sure about the rust, reelale, is your system leaking?

Also, good question about the 1500 watt element coating. Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that my system had, er, fried... and I replaced my 1500w ld element with a 4500 220v element (running at 110v), and brewed a batch. Well, the wort tasted great, and I took a sample this evening (in the primary for 4 days) and it is as sweet as can be; no off flavors.

Today, I brewed a porter, and it tasted fine going into the fermenter. As I cleaned my system, I decided to remove the element to check it; and although there was no scorching at all, the chrome (zinc) on the element was gone... it's now a slate gray color. Any thoughts as to why this happened? Is my beer toxic waste?

By the way, my cleaning "ritual" post-brew is to recirculate water through the entire system to flush it (bucket of water to the pump, to the inlet on my plate chiller, out of my chiller to the inlet of my rims tube, out of the rims back to the bucket). Then I repeat with water with a scoop of pbw, then again with water, and finally with star san and water to sanitize. (Okay, I like to keep my system clean...) Anyhow, I'm wondering if maybe the star san had something to do with it? Thoughts?
 
Veritas said:
Not sure about the rust, reelale, is your system leaking?

Also, good question about the 1500 watt element coating. Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that my system had, er, fried... and I replaced my 1500w ld element with a 4500 220v element (running at 110v), and brewed a batch. Well, the wort tasted great, and I took a sample this evening (in the primary for 4 days) and it is as sweet as can be; no off flavors.

Today, I brewed a porter, and it tasted fine going into the fermenter. As I cleaned my system, I decided to remove the element to check it; and although there was no scorching at all, the chrome (zinc) on the element was gone... it's now a slate gray color. Any thoughts as to why this happened? Is my beer toxic waste?

By the way, my cleaning "ritual" post-brew is to recirculate water through the entire system to flush it (bucket of water to the pump, to the inlet on my plate chiller, out of my chiller to the inlet of my rims tube, out of the rims back to the bucket). Then I repeat with water with a scoop of pbw, then again with water, and finally with star san and water to sanitize. (Okay, I like to keep my system clean...) Anyhow, I'm wondering if maybe the star san had something to do with it? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

No, no leaks. The rust is on the inside, at the element base. I take apart the rims to dry, but apparently I'll have to remove the element every brew to dry.
I would suspect either PBW or starsan as the culprit on your element. PBW is caustic, starsan is acid. Both can remove plating if left in contact long enough. I soaked brass-plated faucets in PBW overnight. Next day they were silver.
 
Reelale said:
I would suspect either PBW or starsan as the culprit on your element. PBW is caustic, starsan is acid. Both can remove plating if left in contact long enough. I soaked brass-plated faucets in PBW overnight. Next day they were silver.
Click to expand...

That was my suspicion... should I be concerned with the element no longer having the plating?
 
If you read the begining of this thread the author said that he used a wire brush to remove the plating on his element.


As I said before a couple posts ago, it would be really nice to hammer out exactly what is the best heating element for these rims tubes.

I was reading the description of the rims tube on the Brew Magic and they say it's vented. Anyone know what that means?
 
bulldogxray said:
I have not thought of putting a timer on my setup. What kind of timer did you use?
Click to expand...

Bull Dog,

Check out the link below. This timer is the same exact timer that the electric brewery uses but a different brand name. The listing on Ebay was for 2 and I bought one of them the other day, still waiting on it's arrival but this timer is what i would suggest.

If you contact the seller you can make a "best offer" price, I got mine for $60 and they retail at $161. granted the ones he is selling are used but I trust buying used stuff off ebay because if it does not function properly paypal has you covered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/EAGLE-SIGNAL-B5...945?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4156f42099
 
Sawdustguy said:
If you are using a standard water heater element they are coated with a zinc plating to protect the element when in a water heater. It doesn't help the element when brewing. I simply rubbed it off with a scrubby until I got to bare copper. I wonder if the zinc is causing an off taste. Then again it could be anything and not related to the RIMS at all.
Click to expand...

Guy, could you explain this? My element, the one in your parts list, has what appears to be almost a chrome plating. A scrubby won't begin to take it off. I don't like the idea of wort coming in contact with zinc. Thanks.
 
Reelale said:
Couple of questions on RIMS elements. I've noticed a little rust forming at the the element base on mine. Is this a concern? How do you deal with it? I have one of Derrin's tubes, and there is also rust from the base in the SS threads of the tri-clover/element fitting.

Also, what are the 1500 W elements coated with? Zinc? Is this a concern?

Lastly, my rims is semi-permanently mounted to my pump. That means I recirculate through it while cooling with a plate chiller. OK? Or should I by-pass it on the cold side? Thanks.
Click to expand...

The rusting base of the element is normal, you can clean it off and seal it with silicone if it bothers you.

I wouldn't run my cold side through the RIMS tube unless I absolutely had to.
 
I try to keep the cold side as "sanitary" as possible. It just doesn't seem like running infectable wort through the RIMS tube is the best plan. It will probably work and you likely will never have an infection problem, but why set it up that way?
 

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