reduced ferment temp harmful?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

dawn_kiebawls

Lawncare and Landscaping enthusiast
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
838
Reaction score
516
Hey guys, I pitched a yeast starter (wyeast3522) into my wort at approximately 66 degrees yesterday morning and it took off like a rocket. About 20 hours later wort had come through the airlock, I didn't have a blowoff tube at the time so I removed the airlock and covered with foil (maintaining a sanitized environment the entire time) and put into a waterbath/swamp cooler incase the temps were just to high. (Stick on thermo strip was reading about 76 so that seemed unlikely, given the strain I pitched) At about 36 hours I got the blowoff tube installed and it gave off 15 or 20 big burps within an hour into the sanitizing solution then stopped entirely. The thermo strip says its right around 73-74 degrees now.

By using the waterbath and reducing temperature, have I slowed or damaged the fermentation/yeast? Or is it just likely that the yeast is past its high growth period and all is well?

Thanks guys and gals!
 
Hi kiebawls,

Don't worry, as you said the yeast is probably just past the high kräusen point. You can check the gravity to see if it already reached final gravity.

Cheers!
 
Don't worry, as you said the yeast is probably just past the high kräusen point. You can check the gravity to see if it already reached final gravity.

Cheers!

Thanks for the reply doomy, you were just a few minutes faster than me! I was just on my way to post back that I solved my own problem. This is the first time I have ever used a blowoff tube so it just needed some fine tuning. I went to check on my fermenter (temps/airlock activity, etc) and noticed a small patch of bubbles creeping out from UNDER MY BUCKETS LID!!..the only way that can happen on an air tight seal is when the contents are under extreme pressure. I jiggle the end of the blowoff tube in the sanitizing solution and it belched. It turns out in my rookie haste, the mistake I made was I submerged about a foot of tubing under the solution. As soon as I pulled all but about an inch out it started chugging away again. Crisis averted, thanks! :mug:
 
This is super common, the yeast probably ran its course. I wouldn't worry to much about it. That temperature range would not do much harm to your beer. This happens to me a lot when I use US-05, it gets the airlock going.

I would work on having Plan B in place for blowoffs as if left unattended too, they cause infections...etc...
 
Thanks for the reply doomy, you were just a few minutes faster than me! I was just on my way to post back that I solved my own problem. This is the first time I have ever used a blowoff tube so it just needed some fine tuning. I went to check on my fermenter (temps/airlock activity, etc) and noticed a small patch of bubbles creeping out from UNDER MY BUCKETS LID!!..the only way that can happen on an air tight seal is when the contents are under extreme pressure. I jiggle the end of the blowoff tube in the sanitizing solution and it belched. It turns out in my rookie haste, the mistake I made was I submerged about a foot of tubing under the solution. As soon as I pulled all but about an inch out it started chugging away again. Crisis averted, thanks! :mug:

I'm glad it turned out well. I have to admit i never used a blow of tube yet. Cheers!
 
For your next brew I would advise to keep the actual fermentation temps a lot lower, depending on the yeast, stay toward her lower range, especially in the beginning (like 66-68°F). Once it's done past the 70% point, a couple days to a week later, start increasing it slowly over a few days to about 4-6 degrees higher (sometimes a bit more), to help finish out and condition the beer.

Higher temps (especially early on) are "harmful" in the sense they cause the yeast to "binge" and create fusel alcohols and flavor byproducts that don't taste so good. The fermentation process is exothermic, it creates heat, which speeds up fermentation that creates more heat... etc.

Lower temps actually make better beer. Saisons may be the exception, but I prefer to keep them somewhat under control too.

Aside from a temperature controlled fermentation refrigerator, I still use a large cooler filled with water until the bucket(s), I can put 2 in there, are just about to start floating. It's in a cool area, close to ale ferm temps, or somewhat higher, depending on the seasons. I add a few frozen bottles with water to it once or twice a day to keep the "water jacket" at my intended ferm temps. Once around 70% done I let the temps rise freely or move the buckets to a warmer area to finish out. I haven't needed to use blow off tubes since I started doing that, but I leave ample headspace. Some yeasts do create a lot of foam (krausen), so a blow off may be needed. Keep an eye on them.
 
Last edited:
Even 73-74 degrees seems pretty high to me. For most yeast I keep the temps at 64-65 for the first 3 days or so, then after krausen drops I allow the temp to rise to about 70-71 for the remaining 11 days when I bottle.
 
You didn't mention what recipe you were brewing but 3522 is Belgian Ardennes and will tolerate from temps as high as 76°F.
It will give you the typical esters you would expect.
Now, if you were brewing another Ale and using 1056/US-05 you'd definitely want to keep it in the 64°-68°F range.
 
You didn't mention what recipe you were brewing but 3522 is Belgian Ardennes and will tolerate from temps as high as 76°F.
It will give you the typical esters you would expect.
Now, if you were brewing another Ale and using 1056/US-05 you'd definitely want to keep it in the 64°-68°F range.

Yeast tolerance and making good beer are 2 different concepts. Although she can go as high as 76F, she may produce an abundance of fusel alcohols at that temp, especially when it contains a load of sugar or candi syrup. Keep the temps a few degrees lower in the beginning, until is has fermented 20-30%, to avoid that.
 
The temperature for that yeast is within range. The height of fermentation is likely past, so action will be slowing down.

It sounds like you have your blow off tube in a large amount of sanitizer. Be careful of temperature changes. A big change can create a reverse siphon sucking the sanitizer into the fermenter. You only need enough to keep the end of the tube submerged. I use a margarine cup with about 1/2 inch in it, and that in a large sauce pot to catch any overflow.
 
Aside from a temperature controlled fermentation refrigerator, I still use a large cooler filled with water until the bucket(s), I can put 2 in there, are just about to start floating. It's in a cool area, close to ale ferm temps, or somewhat higher, depending on the seasons. I add a few frozen bottles with water to it once or twice a day to keep the "water jacket" at my intended ferm temps. Once around 70% done I let the temps rise freely or move the buckets to a warmer area to finish out. I haven't needed to use blow off tubes since I started doing that, but I leave ample headspace. Some yeasts do create a lot of foam (krausen), so a blow off may be needed. Keep an eye on them.

I use my swamp cooler in exactly the way you describe! My beers have been so much more consistent in quality ever since.
 
When I first started brewing, I was using extract kits (IPAs, using Safele US-04 and US-05) and had no real way to temp control.. Most beers primaried up around 74 degrees as a result..

They created these awesome banana esters that I 'loved'...

I tried adding banana extract to brews a couple times since, but it really didn't work.. Wasn't the same effect...

Some of the world's best inventions come from mistakes..

I've been thinking about trying another batch fermenting high like that..

You might be mildly surprised and get something you really like out of it...
 
When I first started brewing, I was using extract kits (IPAs, using Safele US-04 and US-05) and had no real way to temp control.. Most beers primaried up around 74 degrees as a result..

They created these awesome banana esters that I 'loved'...

I tried adding banana extract to brews a couple times since, but it really didn't work.. Wasn't the same effect...

Some of the world's best inventions come from mistakes..

I've been thinking about trying another batch fermenting high like that..

You might be mildly surprised and get something you really like out of it...

Most would call those banana esters, off flavors. But if you like it.....

The other consideration is if you want to brew to style. If so temperature control will be the best bet to keep to style by flavor.
 
Yeast tolerance and making good beer are 2 different concepts. Although she can go as high as 76F, she may produce an abundance of fusel alcohols at that temp, especially when it contains a load of sugar or candi syrup. Keep the temps a few degrees lower in the beginning, until is has fermented 20-30%, to avoid that.
It would also depend on the type of beer being made. A Saison or BPA can/should be allowed to free rise depending on the esters you're trying to achieve.
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies and knowledge shared on here. This is only my second brew, first time adjusting a recipe in an attempt to better fit my taste and first time using liquid yeast (and first time making a starter) so it would be expected that I make a few rookie errors! I'm dubbing this batch 'Frankenbeer' since I found a well reviewed Saison recipe on here and tweaked a few things. Primarily the grain bill. Since I am not set up for AG yet I converted it to a PM brew, changed and added more hops and used a different yeast. I was going for a highly hopped Saison or a Belgian IPA. But, only time will tell what I end up with as I almost feel like I have almost bitten off more than I can chew this round.

Thanks for the information about starting yeasts low and allowing them to ramp up. Pretty much the only reason I chose this strain is because on my last brew (first ever batch) my temps were way out of range on the high side and the wyeast guide at the LHBS said this strains working range was 65-85F so I didn't think I would have to worry about it excessively.

As suspected, my blowoff tube is in a 1 gallon jug of sanitizing solution. I had close to a foot of it submerged which almost caused the lid to blow off my fermenter! I have since pulled all but about an inch out, at the time I wasn't concerned about 'suck back' but I am now. I will certainly go change that set up again just to cover my back in the event of a temp shift.

Thanks again for all the help, I am new to this obsession so I still have to create noob-ish threads like this :D I'll post back periodically and let you guys know how Frankenbeer is coming along :mug:
 
WY3522 becomes very Belgian at higher temps, gaining a lot of phenols and bubblegum. The main reason to curb an early rise of fermentation temperatures (say, the first 20-30%) is to suppress fusel alcohols from forming. Once it's past this stage, ramp it up to the max. Some of us add simple sugars and "candi" syrups after the height of the fermentation is over for the same reason. I like those results.

WY3522 is one of my favorite yeasts.
 
WY3522 becomes very Belgian at higher temps, gaining a lot of phenols and bubblegum. The main reason to curb an early rise of fermentation temperatures (say, the first 20-30%) is to suppress fusel alcohols from forming. Once it's past this stage, ramp it up to the max. Some of us add simple sugars and "candi" syrups after the height of the fermentation is over for the same reason. I like those results.

WY3522 is one of my favorite yeasts.

You have already been extremely helpful and given me a lot to think about for my next brew, which I hope is soon! I need to buy another ferment bucket ASAP..I do have a few questions for you though to get me off onto a better track for the next round.

From here on out I will do my best to curb ferment temps for the first 20-30% or so. Without opening my fermenter and risking oxidation/contamination, what is a good indicator of when to begin the ramp up? Should I wait for the airlock to slow/stop? Or is it a safe assumption that the high growth rate or high krausen is the 20-30%? I ferment in an Ale Pail so I can't easily see whats going on in there.

What do the candi sugars do? Does that just jump-start the yeast again to get them into 'ramp-up mode'? Does that affect the FG/ABV/taste at all?

Lastly and a little off topic. I still have a blowoff tube installed on my fermenter. At what point should I change it back to a standard airlock setup? Or should I? It is still actively bubbling, but it has slowed from when I originally installed it. I no longer think there is a risk of a spillover, but I didn't before!

As always, thanks for the help! :mug:
 
You have already been extremely helpful and given me a lot to think about for my next brew, which I hope is soon! I need to buy another ferment bucket ASAP..I do have a few questions for you though to get me off onto a better track for the next round.

From here on out I will do my best to curb ferment temps for the first 20-30% or so. Without opening my fermenter and risking oxidation/contamination, what is a good indicator of when to begin the ramp up? Should I wait for the airlock to slow/stop? Or is it a safe assumption that the high growth rate or high krausen is the 20-30%? I ferment in an Ale Pail so I can't easily see whats going on in there.

What do the candi sugars do? Does that just jump-start the yeast again to get them into 'ramp-up mode'? Does that affect the FG/ABV/taste at all?

Lastly and a little off topic. I still have a blowoff tube installed on my fermenter. At what point should I change it back to a standard airlock setup? Or should I? It is still actively bubbling, but it has slowed from when I originally installed it. I no longer think there is a risk of a spillover, but I didn't before!

As always, thanks for the help! :mug:

YVW! We all keep learning, there's a lot left that's not said between the lines. ;)
This is a great place for that.

Good questions!

Indeed, buckets don't offer an easy view inside, but I peek down the airlock hole when I want or need visuals of the progress (after removing the airlock), sometime aided with a flashlight. You can also use a strong flashlight or other light through the sides, while peeking.

We should take lack of airlock activity with a large grain of salt, lids are typically not sealing well. But when they do, you can surely use the airlock as some sort of indicator (again, some seepage along the rim may still happen).

While fermentation is very active you can safely lift the lid, make sure to sanitize the lid and especially the underneath of the rim area thoroughly. The headspace will fill back up with CO2 quickly after replacing. When fermentation has slowed down, better leave it be, if you can. I like to limit or avoid that intrusion, and in many cases it's not needed. Use the airlock hole for easy, low intrusive access.

You can siphon out hydrometer and taste samples through the airlock hole with a 2' piece of skinny 5/16" OD vinyl tubing. Suck to get started and drain into a (pint or quart) take out container or so. Pull the tubing out of the bucket quickly without flow back, replace airlock. Or use a long straw, spare diptube, stainless rod, long thermometer stem, etc. through the airlock hole, to pick up a few drops to put on a refractometer. Use the correction formula to calculate actual gravity and there it is, a virtually intrusion less gravity reading.

12-72 hours after pitching can be enough time to drop the gravity 20-30%, or more... You surely don't want to miss it. I've had beers that were almost done fermenting in 2 days at 65-66F, and in some cases I missed that window of opportunity. So you do need to pay attention and be ready.

Most, if not all Belgian ale recipes include a good dose of sugar product(s) such as plain table sugar, dextrose, or a fancier "Candi" Sugar or Syrup of a certain color. They increase alcohol without adding body, and the darker they are, the more flavor. I make most of my own (Candi) Syrups up to around D-90 (a commercial product) on the stove top. 1 or 2 pounds per batch. There are some good threads and blogs on Candi/Caramel Syrup making.

I usually add sugar products around the 60-70% done point, sometimes later. Fermentation will kick up a little. I feel it prevents yeast from binging early while "forgetting" how to ferment more complex sugars, such as maltotriose. One thing is, I never add them to the boil kettle. In short, after removing the grommet, I add them through the airlock hole using a small funnel with a dip tube on it to avoid splashing. The syrups are thinned down just enough to make them pourable. I even add dry hops through that airlock hole, although I have drilled 1" access holes in some lids to make those things easier. I usually flush the headspace with CO2 afterward, just in case. A 20# tank asks for being used for more than just carbonating and serving beer.

I'm not that well learned about the whole sugar process and how they affect flavors and fermentation at different times in the brew process. I apply a mix of what I've read and understand from various sources. Apparently, kettle caramelization during the boil at typical wort gravities of 1.040-1.070 seems to on the verge of being debunked. Now undoubtedly there are kettle reactions, so more research and studying is needed, not only on our part.

You can either leave the blow-off tube or replace with a regular airlock after the big krausen period is over. If you leave it in, just make sure you don't get suck back during chilling periods, like cold crashing, or sometimes even when fermentation slows down, or ambient temps drop (overnight).

After a blow off event, clean around well, and re-sanitize as much as you can, especially the rim area and under the grommet. Or better yet, remove the lid, clean the bucket's rim, and replace with a clean(ed) and (re)sanitized lid.
I always fear that after an overflow like that infections could develop in and around those areas. Fine while the lid remains on, but when you pry it off, the infected stuff could end up inside.

So I always clean, then spray and mop those areas well with Starsan and a small washcloth before opening any fermentor lid. The first thing I do after removing the lid is wipe that bucket rim thoroughly (Starsaned washcloths are great!). Then lay a clean and sanitized lid on it.

Perhaps I am paranoid...
 
Back
Top