Quick liquid yeast question

[Teufelhunde]

Got a box from NB today containing my first liquid yeast, have always used dry prior to this. I know it has to be refrigerated, but at what temps? My wife makes cheese and has a mini-fridge that she maintains at 52 degrees F. I figure that is likely cold enough, but wanted to check with those more knowledgeable than myself. Is it safe to keep in there, or do I need it in my 36ish main fridge?

TIA for the answers...

Lon

 

[Bobby_M]

Main fridge would be best. What's the packaging date on that pack and what's the OG you're planning to pitch it into?

 

[Teufelhunde]

Main fridge would be best. What's the packaging date on that pack and what's the OG you're planning to pitch it into?

There are two types. Omega oyl-011 and oyl-200. All were package in sept 2021 and on the back says good for 5 months from packaging date.

oyl-011 is destined for two packages into 1.078 and the 200 is destined for 1.052 and 1.064

 

[Bobby_M]

Unfortunately the yeast labs feel compelled to pretend that a single pack of yeast at 5 months old will still perform properly. Other labs say it so no one company can be honest or people won't buy the product.

OYL-011 assuming Sept 15th:

For the lower gravity...

My suggestion for the future is if you plan to continue using liquid yeast, get a stir plate and a 2000mL flask to make starters. You can achieve almost any pitch rate you need from a single pack.

 

[GoodTruble]

Agreed. With liquid yeasts, make a starter.

And then have some small sanitized jars & lids around to harvest a small amount from the starter to keep in the fridge and use for another batch later (another good reason to make a starter).

And if you don't have the starter equipment, you can probably get by with a sanitized pitcher covered in foil.

And for the original question - use the colder fridge.

 

[IslandLizard]

OYL-011 assuming Sept 15th:
Target pitch: 440 billion cells

That looks high! Can you please check those numbers?

BrewUnited's calc shows me 295 billion cells are needed for that brew. He's already pitching 2 packs, so he should be close (~246 billion if manufactured on 9/15), but heavily depending on actual age and shipping/storage conditions.
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

 

[Teufelhunde]

That looks high! Can you please check those numbers?

BrewUnited's calc shows me 295 billion cells are needed for that brew. He's already pitching 2 packs, so he should be close (~246 billion if manufactured on 9/15), but heavily depending on actual age and shipping/storage conditions.
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

It was still cold to the touch when it arrived.....

 

[IslandLizard]

It was still cold to the touch when it arrived.....

That's hopeful, as long as the weather wasn't extreme elsewhere during her journey.

I got a super fresh vial from WhiteLab's Yeast Vault, but she was in bad shape when making the first starter, the day she arrived. She took the southern route through TX, and must have spent a weekend there too. This was in April or early May.

 

[Teufelhunde]

Well, it came from Minnesota to Arizona, so I would imagine we are the hottest point in the journey. Our daytimes are now running about 75 degrees (I am NOT in Phoenix, thank god) with night temps in the low 40's. It was packed in a cold pack, inside a sealed box with crinkle paper filling unused space, so I would imagine it was OK during the journey.

Lon

 

[IslandLizard]

Well, it came from Minnesota to Arizona, so I would imagine we are the hottest point in the journey. Our daytimes are now running about 75 degrees (I am NOT in Phoenix, thank god) with night temps in the low 40's. It was packed in a cold pack, inside a sealed box with crinkle paper filling unused space, so I would imagine it was OK during the journey.

That sounds good, yes. Right now, before things freeze solid, is a good time for yeast transports in most of the country, as is early Spring.

Are you're going to make starters?
If so, that double pack of OYL-11, only make a starter with one pack, you wouldn't get much growth pitching both into a 2 liter starter flask, even a 5 liter one. Then save the other one for another batch and starter.

You can also make a bigger starter than you'd need, and save some out as a reserve for the next time. You can do that many times.

 

[RufusBrewer]

If you do not have the access to stirplate and flask, check out making a vitality starter. AKA 007 Starter, or Shaken Not Stirred Starter.

I do not intend to start a debate. There are some home brewers find that the 007 starter more simple and produces high quality results.

I hope there is no debate to say that a 007 starter is better than no starter.

 

[govner1]

Well, it came from Minnesota to Arizona, so I would imagine we are the hottest point in the journey. Our daytimes are now running about 75 degrees (I am NOT in Phoenix, thank god) with night temps in the low 40's. It was packed in a cold pack, inside a sealed box with crinkle paper filling unused space, so I would imagine it was OK during the journey.

Lon

NB is unreliable, at best, when it comes to packaging and shipping liquid yeast. I ordered two packs of an Imperial yeast a couple of months ago and even paid for FedEx Overnight. When it arrived both packs and the one tiny ice pack were at 100°F! NB twisted themselves into a pretzel trying to convince me that the yeast was “fine”!
When I contacted Imperial the not only called BS on NB, but shipped me replacement packs that arrived the next AM with two large freezer packs still frozen but in a well insulated container. Props to Imperial, thumbs down on NB for any future purchases!

 

[cubalz]

With liquid yeast, fresh or otherwise: always make a starter. This way you can ensure yeast viability prior to pitching as well as boosting the cell numbers.

 

[Teufelhunde]

If you do not have the access to stirplate and flask, check out making a vitality starter. AKA 007 Starter, or Shaken Not Stirred Starter.

I do not intend to start a debate. There are some home brewers find that the 007 starter more simple and produces high quality results.

I hope there is no debate to say that a 007 starter is better than no starter.

You've got me curious. What, exactly is a vitality or 007 starter?

 

[Bobby_M]

That looks high! Can you please check those numbers?

BrewUnited's calc shows me 295 billion cells are needed for that brew. He's already pitching 2 packs, so he should be close (~246 billion if manufactured on 9/15), but heavily depending on actual age and shipping/storage conditions.
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

I'm using BrewFather's calculator. For the 1.078, the pitch rate is set to 1M/mL/P which is recommended for OGs over 1.060.

 

[KeizerBrewr]

You can get into a stir plate like this one, I have that exact model. Works a treat. You can pick up a 2L flask like this one, for around $30-$40. Just keep a couple pounds of DME on hand and you'll be shittin' in tall cotton. When I went to making starters, fermentation picked up quicker(less lag phase) and had better flavor!

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm using BrewFather's calculator. For the 1.078, the pitch rate is set to 1M/mL/P which is recommended for OGs over 1.060.

Ah, I see!

When setting the pitch rate to 1.00 on BrewUnited it shows 393 billion cells needed, 10% less than Brewfather. They must be using different models.

Let's not overlook that it makes quite a difference whether one is pitching into a batch of 1.065 or 1.090 or 1.100. Although all 3 are above 1.060, the 1.00 pitch rate may not be enough for 1.100 while overkill for 1.065.

Proper oxygenation is also a big part of success at higher gravities. Oxygenating even a 2nd time after 12-18 hours, but before fermentation has started, is being recommended at some point starting around 1.090, IIRC.

In lieu of an oxygen tank one could use an aquarium pump, and bubble for several hours while the yeast is still in lag phase. Or even shake or whisk every hour or so for the first 3-6 hours.

 

[IslandLizard]

You've got me curious. What, exactly is a vitality or 007 starter?

He refers to the "Shaken-not-Stirred" ("S-n-S") starter method, a term borrowed from James Bond.

It mainly revitalizes the yeast on hand. There will be some growth too, since you're providing oxygen through the foam you're creating by wildly shaking, but it's not an optimal method for growth, unless you're willing to shake it very 30' or so, using 1-2 quarts of starter wort.

Using a stir plate (or orbital lab agitator/shaker) will promote growth, while revitalizing the yeast as the same time, due to incorporating a continuous supply of O2 into the wort, while driving off CO2, while keeping the yeast suspended, preventing it from settling out (precipitating).

 

[RufusBrewer]

You've got me curious. What, exactly is a vitality or 007 starter?

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/saccharomyces/shaken-not-stirred-stir-plate-myth-buster
Yeast, cell counts, volume, use of starters is an interesting topic. For home brewers it chock full of scientific research mixed in with anecdotal evidence.

I know people that have toured White Labs and/or Wyeast and they noted that they never saw a stir plate used. Lots of shaker tables, but no spinning magnetic bars. What does that tell you? Maybe nothing.

Denny from experimental brewing swears by the vitality starter. FWIW. I have used the 007 starters and been happy with the results as evaluated by naked eye observations and drinking the beer.

I suggest you do as much research as you are comfortable. Consider opinions and weight these opinions as it makes sense to you.

 

[Miraculix]

He refers to the "Shaken-not-Stirred" ("S-n-S") starter method, a term borrowed from James Bond.

It mainly revitalizes the yeast on hand. There will be some growth too, since you're providing oxygen through the foam you're creating by wildly shaking, but it's not an optimal method for growth, unless you're willing to shake it very 30' or so, using 1-2 quarts of starter wort.

Using a stir plate (or orbital lab agitator/shaker) will promote growth, while revitalizing the yeast as the same time, due to incorporating a continuous supply of O2 into the wort, while driving off CO2, while keeping the yeast suspended, preventing it from settling out (precipitating).

Basically the well accepted proof that the co2 blanket is a myth.