Protein Rest with German Malts

[TNTurkey]

Should I do a protein rest for my Munich Dunkel (Base grains below)?
I've read many of the posts on protein rests on this forum as well as a couple of articles. It seems to be the general consensus that this rest is only needed for less well modified grains. There does seem to be some disagreement on whether the protein rest is important for German malts. Some say that these malts are now as highly modified as the American malts and others say otherwise.
I've ordered the grains for a Munich Dunkel. The recipe calls for a 20 minute protein rest at 130F. The grain bill and what analysis I could find for the base grains is below. I'm not sure what numbers are important but didn't want to repeat the whole analysis as it's in pdf. I can send whatever else would be helpful.
Thanks.
Weyermann Munich malt (60%); 10L, Protein 10.6%, Soluble N 715 mg/100g MTs, Soluble protein dry 4.5
Weyermann Pilsner 4 EBC, Protein 10.5%, Soluble protein 698 mg/100g, Soluble protein 4.4,

 

[Big Monk]

No need for a protein rest.

 

[TNTurkey]

No need for a protein rest.

Thanks
That will simplify things a lot

 

[Big Monk]

Try 144/147/162/171 for 20/10/30/10 minutes respectively.

 

[HollywoodMX]

Try 144/147/162/171 for 20/10/30/10 minutes respectively.

Or simply pick one temp and have a beer for 60 minutes instead. You mash likely have all kinds of temp variations within the kettle anyways without screwing around with it.

 

[Big Monk]

Or simply pick one temp and have a beer for 60 minutes instead. You mash likely have all kinds of temp variations within the kettle anyways without screwing around with it.

I don't know what you mean but I have a PID controlled mash tun. I step mash for extract, body, foam and attenuation. I don't get swings in temperature.

 

[brewbama]

I've been using Hochkurz for Continental beers. Here's a short article on the method: https://beerandbrewing.com/short-and-high-the-hochkurz-mash/

I believe including a step both at a low conversion temperature and a second mash step at high conversion temperature results in very high sugar conversion, and a very clean, light bodied beer. It does this by activating both the alpha and beta amylase in sequence. It is useful primarily for beers that require a clean, dry finish – and is most often associated with lagers.

 

[Big Monk]

I've been using Hochkurz for Continental beers. Here's a short article on the method: https://beerandbrewing.com/short-and-high-the-hochkurz-mash/

I believe including a step both at a low conversion temperature and a second mash step at high conversion temperature results in very high sugar conversion, and a very clean, light bodied beer. It does this by activating both the alpha and beta amylase in sequence. It is useful primarily for beers that require a clean, dry finish – and is most often associated with lagers.

Your β rests are for fermentability and extract, α rest for body, prolonged mashout (held at 10+ minutes) aids in foam retention.

I step all my beers.

 

[Biscuits]

Modified or not, rests matter. Try brewing a hefe with a single infusion mash and you will be underwhelmed.

 

[triethylborane]

Modified or not, rests matter. Try brewing a hefe with a single infusion mash and you will be underwhelmed.

Just do a single decoction

 

[HollywoodMX]

I don't know what you mean but I have a PID controlled mash tun. I step mash for extract, body, foam and attenuation. I don't get swings in temperature.

I have a PID controlled mash ton too. Do you have the long probe or short probe because if its short your mash temp is not accurate. You should always double check with a long wand thermometer too.

In the end I'm just saying most people likely have mash temp control issues whether they know it or not as the mash is at different temps than whats being registered at the probe area. Ever stir you mash and the temp changes? Exactly!:fro:

Just do a single decoction

Yup!

 

[Big Monk]

I have a PID controlled mash ton too. Do you have the long probe or short probe because if its short your mash temp is not accurate. You should always double check with a long wand thermometer too.

In the end I'm just saying most people likely have mash temp control issues whether they know it or not as the mash is at different temps than whats being registered at the probe area. Ever stir you mash and the temp changes? Exactly!:fro:



Yup!

A few things:

1.) I'm not exactly sure how temperature probe length has any relevance. At leas tit doesn't in my setup.

2.) I use a 4" probe kettle mounted adjacent to my output valve. I have a 3" probe mount on a Tee at my recirculation manifold (lid mounted circle flow LocLine). I recirculate the the entire duration of the mash so there is little variation in temperature in the mash itself.

3.) Becuase of my batch sizes (1.5 gal) I have only a slight temperature differential between the outlet and inlet sensors.

4.) Every few batches I measure with my thermometer to verify.

I can say with certainty that I hold temperatures dead nuts to the one's I enter in my controller.

True, many people may have temperature control issues, I fortunately do not.

 

[TNTurkey]

Thanks for all the great info. That opinions on this run the gamut from simple to fairly complex doesn't surprise me-it's what I've found from my reading on the forum. I did end up doing a protein rest on this batch, mostly because I had the hot water ready to go and needed to thin my mash a little anyway.
For the next batch of this German dark lager, I'm going to try the Hockhurz mash profile (thanks Brewbama) and see if there's any difference in the beer. I should be able to control the temp fairly well as I have a heated mash tun now and I'm pretty careful about checking temps.

 

[TNTurkey]

Just do a single decoction

Interesting that you say this. The original recipe called for a double decoction mash. I've tried a single decoction before and ended up burning the mash. My inexperience of course, but I've been a little gun-shy since then.

 

[triethylborane]

Interesting that you say this. The original recipe called for a double decoction mash. I've tried a single decoction before and ended up burning the mash. My inexperience of course, but I've been a little gun-shy since then.

Give it more practice. I scorched the grains on my first decoction mash for a hefeweizen . . . color was a bit dark but it still tasted on target.

 

[HollywoodMX]

A few things:

1.) I'm not exactly sure how temperature probe length has any relevance. At leas tit doesn't in my setup.

2.) I use a 4" probe kettle mounted adjacent to my output valve. I have a 3" probe mount on a Tee at my recirculation manifold (lid mounted circle flow LocLine). I recirculate the the entire duration of the mash so there is little variation in temperature in the mash itself.

3.) Becuase of my batch sizes (1.5 gal) I have only a slight temperature differential between the outlet and inlet sensors.

4.) Every few batches I measure with my thermometer to verify.

I can say with certainty that I hold temperatures dead nuts to the one's I enter in my controller.

True, many people may have temperature control issues, I fortunately do not.

1.5 gallon? No wonder, problyu only takes 1 min to step in temperature. I'm 15 gallon and I recirc too.

Not to sound rude but your step advice isn't good for people 5+ gallon, its not realistic.

 

[Big Monk]

1.5 gallon? No wonder, problyu only takes 1 min to step in temperature. I'm 15 gallon and I recirc too.

Not to sound rude but your step advice isn't good for people 5+ gallon, its not realistic.

How is it not realistic? If you can't keep even temperatures or maintain a 1 °C/min ramp rate while direct fire step mashing then you need a larger heat source.