Belgian Quadruple infused triple using leftover malt?? *Experiment*

[Roysag]

Hi! Am quite new to homebrewing so be prepared for a long thread with noob questions, but i will much appreciate your expertise

I have some leftover malts with expire date around april 2022 which i intend to use since i am cheap.. i mean, thinking about the climate;
1.75 kg pale ale malt
0.65 kg Crushed pilsner malt
0.75 kg Carahel malt
1.9 kg Wheat malt

Question 1, can i use these malts even though they have expired?

If I can use them, what do you guys think of this recipe. I love triples and quadruples (Gulden Spoor and La trappe quadrupel for i.e) so i am thinking of making an abomination of something in between. Maybe there is a style for it... I dont know..

Below is the recipe from Brewfather and questions tied to it

Question 2: What do you think of this recipe? Any changes or improvements which would make it work?

Question 3: Regarding the sugar. For me, table sugar is white Beet sugar and cane sugar is the amber looking one with some caramel-ish taste. Am i right?
Can I go with that much cane sugar or will it taste like Fudge?
(Candi is 4 times the price here..)

Question 4: The choice of yeasts is based on David Hearts co-fermentaion videos on youtube to achive the taste of triples and fast condition times. His recipes calls for 25°C during fermentation and end it with 28°C. But I dont have any fancy temparture controlled boxes. Unless i ramp up the heater in my home and let my wife beat me with the electrical bill.
Can this ferment in room temperature (21°C)?

Cheers my friends,
Anton

Brewfather

Powerful and easy to use tool for your brewing needs

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Leftover triple - Belgian Tripel

9.6% / 19.1 °P
BIAB (No sparge) 70% efficiency

Batch Volume: 10.5 L
Boil Time: 60 min

Mash Water: 15.13 L
Total Water: 15.13 L
Boil Volume: 13.46 L

Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.051

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.079
Final Gravity: 1.006
IBU (Tinseth): 30
BU/GU: 0.38
Color: 12.8 EBC

Mash
1 — 60 °C — 20 min
2 — 65 °C — 20 min
3 — 69 °C — 20 min
4 Mash Out — 75 °C — 10 min


Malts (2.95 kg)
*1.75 kg (50%) — Bulldog Pale Ale — Grain — 5 EBC
*650 g (18.6%) — Bulldog Pilsner — Grain — 3.5 EBC
*350 g (10%) — Weyermann Carahell — Grain — 25 EBC
*200 g (5.7%) — Viking Malt Wheat — Grain — 6 EBC
Other (550 g)
*550 g (15.7%) — Sugar, Table (Sucrose) — Sugar — 2 EBC

Hops (36 g)
17 g (19 IBU) — Saaz 5% — Boil — 60 min
19 g (11 IBU) — Saaz 5% — Boil — 15 min

Miscs
1.735 items — Yeast Nutrients — Boil — 15 min

Yeast
1 pkg — Mangrove Jack's M31 Belgian Tripel
1 pkg — Mangrove Jack's M12 Kveik (Voss)
Fermentation
Primary — 21 °C — 10 days

 

[AlexKay]

You call out the Pilsner as crushed ... are the others crushed as well, or have they been stored as whole grains and you'll mill them before brewing? If the Pilsner is the only one that's pre-crushed, I'd throw it out and use the other grains.

There's no reason not to use more wheat (especially if you do decide to throw out the Pilsner malt.) Use as much as you need/want to get the gravity you'd like to get. You're BIABing, so stuck sparges aren't an issue.

This actually looks like a pretty normal tripel to me -- what about the recipe do you think suggests quadrupel?

If you're a "noob," why the complicated mashing schedule? Single infusion, 65 C, no mash-out, done.

And finally, the yeast combination doesn't make sense to me, but if you've got a reliable source for it, I guess you're good. I'm not sure I see the point of fermenting kveik if you're staying at room temperature. Use the Belgian yeast, and if it does most of it's work a few degrees above ambient, that'll be perfect.

 

[Kickass]

I think @AlexKay’s advice is solid. Especially the yeast comments. I’ve never used MJ M31 but if it’s a true Belgian yeast, it should be more than enough. I’d never muddy a Belgian style with kveik. You get none of the benefits with all of its flavor imperfections.

Id make a couple of minor tweaks to their comments if brewing this myself.

I don’t get too worked up over older grain. Taste it, if you like, use it. It might be dulled a little and a little staler but I’d probably still use it.

I might scrap the carahell. It adds a little more color but not enough to take you into quad color range. If you keep it, I’m sure it’ll be fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

What they said^

Question 3: Regarding the sugar. For me, table sugar is white Beet sugar [...]

Using beet sugar is totally fine. It's the most common sugar used in Northern Europe. Use what you have, it's all sucrose, anyway.

The tan color in sugar is due to the level of refinement, not the origin (cane or beet). When sugar still contains some molasses, it has a tan color. You could taste the molasses in it, but can be fairly subtle.
Raw (unrefined or not fully refined) sugar contains more molasses and other impurities, hence the darker color.

You could make (cook) your own homemade version of candi sugar, at whatever color you'd want, light to super dark, using regular sugar (cane, beet, whatever). It may only add the subtlest difference when when you make a light variety. Most flavor benefit comes from making darker ones, such as aiming for homemade D-90 or D-180 and so.

I would use that Pilsner malt too, as long as it doesn't smell or taste stale. If it's stored in a plastic bag it's likely to be good. I've used pre-crushed malt that was much older.

 

[TheMadKing]

My two cents on question #2

If you enjoy tripels: fruity, spicy, effervescent, light colored, easy to drink, hoppy

And Dark Strongs: heavy, dark fruit, dark color, complex, rich, sweet

Then IMO by mixing them together you lose the defining characteristics of each.
They are almost exact opposites as far as beers go. So by trying to blend styles between these two you're either going to make a heavy sweet dark tripel, or a light less complex hoppy quad.

I'm all for blending styles but I think these two choices together isn't a great one. You'd be better off brewing a good tripel and a good quad and alternating them while you drink.

I believe all your other questions have been answered already though. I agree that if the grain was pre-crushed and smells stale you shouldn't use it. If it was whole then its fine. Grain keeps a long time.

Table sugar is refined cane sugar not beet sugar but they are chemically the same thing.

If you're a new brewer i think experimenting with cofermentation is a big leap and you would be better served by learning how to use and handle single strains well before trying to blend them. I've been brewing for 15+ years and I can honestly say that I have yet to truly master any yeast strain in terms of how it likes to be handles to produce optimal flavor results. I'm pretty good with London Ale III, Bock Lager, and the Westmalle belgian strain.. but I'm still learning new things about them every time I brew with them

 

[TheMadKing]

What they said^

Using beet sugar is totally fine. It's the most common sugar used in Northern Europe. Use what you have, it's all sucrose, anyway.

The tan color in sugar is due to the level of refinement, not the origin (cane or beet). When sugar still contains some molasses, it has a tan color. You could taste the molasses in it, but can be fairly subtle.
Raw (unrefined or not fully refined) sugar contains more molasses and other impurities, hence the darker color.

You could make (cook) your own homemade version of candi sugar, at whatever color you'd want, light to super dark, using regular sugar (cane, beet, whatever). It may only add the subtlest difference when when you make a light variety. Most flavor benefit comes from making darker ones, such as aiming for homemade D-90 or D-180 and so.

I would use that Pilsner malt too, as long as it doesn't smell or taste stale. If it's stored in a plastic bag it's likely to be good. I've used pre-crushed malt that was much older.

I believe candi sugar is inverted isnt it? So the OP would need to add a little acid during the cook.

 

[IslandLizard]

Table sugar is refined cane sugar not beet sugar

Not in (Northern) Europe. Most common "table sugar" there is derived from sugar beets.
Cane sugar is more expensive there, sort of the opposite as here in the U.S.

 

[TheMadKing]

Not in (Northern) Europe. Most sugar there is derived from sugar beets.
Cane sugar is more expensive there, sort of the opposite as here in the U.S.

Sorry I didn't ask that clearly, isnt it invert beet sugar? Meaning the sucrose has been broken down into a glucose/fructose blend

Edit there is some disagreement on this topic lol

Edit edit: I didn't read what you quoted closely enough either haha. I didn't know table sugar was beet sugar in Europe!

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry I didn't ask that clearly, isnt it invert beet sugar? Meaning the sucrose has been broken down into a glucose/fructose blend

No, beet sugar is not inverted, it's pure sucrose derived from sugar beets.

When making sugar syrups a-la Simplicity, Golden, D-45, D-90, D-180 etc., I'm referring to @SnickASaurusRex's thread, here:

20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient

So do I really have to use brewers yeast or will my moms sourdough junk work? No really... I just blew through 20 lbs of sugar and a jar of DAP yeast nutrient trying to perfect my caramelized "Candi Syrup" recipe. and this is what I came up with. The basic ideas for the recipe are from...

www.homebrewtalk.com

In his intro "Rex" says he got the basic idea from Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher, and from Brew Like a Monk by Stan Hieronymus.

 

[TheMadKing]

No, beet sugar is not inverted, it's pure sucrose derived from sugar beets.

When making sugar syrups a-la Simplicity, Golden, D-45, D-90, D-180 etc., I'm referring to @SnickASaurusRex's thread, here:

20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient

So do I really have to use brewers yeast or will my moms sourdough junk work? No really... I just blew through 20 lbs of sugar and a jar of DAP yeast nutrient trying to perfect my caramelized "Candi Syrup" recipe. and this is what I came up with. The basic ideas for the recipe are from...

www.homebrewtalk.com

In his intro "Rex" says he got the basic idea from Radical Brewing Randy Mosher, and from Brew Like a Monk Stan Hieronymus.

That thread is really interesting and i just learned a ton about the 3 distinct kinds of brewing sugars!

doesn't the fact that the commercial sugar syrups are shelf stable and don't crystalize indicate they have been converted to glucose/fructose?

 

[chthon]

That thread is really interesting and i just learned a ton about the 3 distinct kinds of brewing sugars!

doesn't the fact that the commercial sugar syrups are shelf stable and don't crystalize indicate they have been converted to glucose/fructose?

Yes, but that has less to do with fermentation propertied and more with ease of handling: pumping liquids is simpler.

 

[madscientist451]

I have some leftover malts with expire date around april 2022 which i intend to use since i am cheap.. i mean, thinking about the climate;
1.75 kg pale ale malt
0.65 kg Crushed pilsner malt
0.75 kg Carahel malt
1.9 kg Wheat malt

Question 1, can i use these malts even though they have expired?

If I can use them, what do you guys think of this recipe. I love triples and quadruples (Gulden Spoor and La trappe quadrupel for i.e) so i am thinking of making an abomination of something in between. Maybe there is a style for it... I dont know..

Experiments are cool, and your recipe should be fine, I'd just use the trippel yeast though. Grain doesn't go bad as soon as you think, it will be fine.
If you want to make trippels and quads, check out the candi-sugar recipe page, lots of great stuff there. I learned a lot by making clone recipes and then comparing it to the commercial version.
A method you may want to try is taking the first 3 quarts of wort and boiling it down to a quart or less in a side pot and tossing that in to your main boil. Its an extra step, but I've found it adds a depth of flavor to quads and trippels.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yes, but that has less to do with fermentation propertied and more with ease of handling: pumping liquids is simpler.

Sorry I'm not sure I understand your reply - it doesn't seem at all related to what I posted...

 

[Roysag]

Hi again, i want to thank you all for the thorough replies and discussions, much appreciated!!
I have learnt much from it, for i.e there is differences between triple and quad and simply adding raw cane sugar and Carahell wont make it a quad-ish. I fancy the idea of doing a triple and quad to alternate instead

I just had my brewday now. And tried incorperate as many tips as possible.

I tasted the crushed pilsner and it tasted "normal" i guess, they had a coarse grind so I gave it an extra crush
For sugar I went for the Beet table sugar but the thread on making own Candi was very interesting! Maybe for my coming quad

I also tried the idea of reducing some wort next to the main boil, I saw your comment just when my wort started boiling and gave it a go. 1.5 liter was reduced and suddenly there was 1.5 liters missing in the fermentor and with a OG of 1.094 haha. So I boiled and cooled some extra water and added in the fermentor. So next time i have to increase the amount of water

Experiments are cool, and your recipe should be fine, I'd just use the trippel yeast though. Grain doesn't go bad as soon as you think, it will be fine.
If you want to make trippels and quads, check out the candi-sugar recipe page, lots of great stuff there. I learned a lot by making clone recipes and then comparing it to the commercial version.
A method you may want to try is taking the first 3 quarts of wort and boiling it down to a quart or less in a side pot and tossing that in to your main boil. Its an extra step, but I've found it adds a depth of flavor to quads and trippels.

For yeast i got inspired of the Kveik co-fermentaion, but I added only half the package. So that will be the expirement If it really matures faster and still creates belgian taste.

I also found a spot at home and built a pillow castle infront of a radiator, and it holds actually around 25°C for the fermentor to be in

Once again, thanks for all your help and encouragement!

I have one more question for the ineviatble bottling. My last brews lost the carbonation (or never gained any)..
My method was to simply add table suger with a teaspoon in to the bottle, fill it up and close it. Then brought them down to the cellar (12°C)
Can my method be improved/changed to ensure better carbonation?

Cheers and happy brewing!
Anton

 

[madscientist451]

If you can get sugar cubes, I've used them, makes it easier than trying to get a spoonful of sugar in the bottle.

 

[Kickass]

My method was to simply add table suger with a teaspoon in to the bottle, fill it up and close it. Then brought them down to the cellar (12°C)

Did they ever carbonate? How long did you allow for carbonation? 12c might be a bit cool. 16-18c might be faster.

 

[TheMadKing]

Id recommend making a boiled sugar solution and adding it to bottles in liquid form.

You also need to be sure to mix the bottles well after capping by shaking otherwise the sugar will sit on the bottom stratified by density.

 

[Roysag]

I went straight to the cellar with the bottles since the recipe said to let the beer mature in 12°C. But is there maybe a "let the beer carbonate" step? Keep the bottles in room temp for a couple of days to gain carbonation and the take them down to the cellar?

Do I need to mix the boiled sugar solution by shaking the bottles too? Isn't there a risk to "shake in oxygen" and cause oxidation problems?

 

[TheMadKing]

I went straight to the cellar with the bottles since the recipe said to let the beer mature in 12°C. But is there maybe a "let the beer carbonate" step? Keep the bottles in room temp for a couple of days to gain carbonation and the take them down to the cellar?

Do I need to mix the boiled sugar solution by shaking the bottles too? Isn't there a risk to "shake in oxygen" and cause oxidation problems?

Yes you need to leave the bottles at room temperature for a week or two before chilling them.

"Maturing" beer is a terrible term that means many different things to different people.

For a tripel I would recommend carbonating to 3-3.5volumes and then store it as cold as you can. The closer to 0C the better. And it's ready to drink as soon as it tastes good.

For a quad it will benefit from some age so after carbonation, store it at 12C and I'd recommend putting a few bottles away for a year or two. I have a quad that's at 2 years right now and I think it's in its prime.

On the sugar question, yes there is some oxidation, but the active yeast will consume most of it, and that's one of the downsides of bottle conditioning.

Actually, most people add the priming suger to the entire batch at once right before bottling. Just make sure you mix it thoroughly if you do that because it will stratify by density and you'll end up with unevenly carbonated bottles.

 

[chthon]

Sorry I'm not sure I understand your reply - it doesn't seem at all related to what I posted...

Yes, they have been inverted to glucose/fructose, but that doesn't matter for beer. Not inverted sucrose, crystal sugar, crystal cane sugar can all be used in place of invert syrups.

Sugar as invert syrups are used in many industries because they can be pumped from storage to liquid tankers, and from there where they are needed. Also note that the sugar industry uses acid based or enzyme based processes to invert sugar, not heat based.

The only place where invert syrups have an advantage as ingredient are in patisserie and ice cream making.

 

[Roysag]

Thanks alot, I will try the sugar solution!

To follow your example with 3-3.5volumes of carbonation and adding the sugar to the batch before bottling.. to break it down in steps so my smooth brain understands.. correct me If am wrong

Fermentation is done.
-Fill the fermentor with the sugar solution.
-Gently stir it, without stiring up the sediment.
-Then proceed with bottling
-Let the bottles stay in room temperature for 2-3weeks to accumulate carbonation
-Then store the bottles as cold as possible

A second question regarding fermentation temperatures..
My pillow castle now holds around 25-26°C. But I taped a termometer to the fermentor and it has 30°C!
So my question is... when the recipe calls to ferment in 25°C, is it the ambient temperatur or the temperature of the wort?

 

[TheMadKing]

Yes, they have been inverted to glucose/fructose, but that doesn't matter for beer. Not inverted sucrose, crystal sugar, crystal cane sugar can all be used in place of invert syrups.

Sugar as invert syrups are used in many industries because they can be pumped from storage to liquid tankers, and from there where they are needed. Also note that the sugar industry uses acid based or enzyme based processes to invert sugar, not heat based.

The only place where invert syrups have an advantage as ingredient are in patisserie and ice cream making.

So just to clarify what I was saying in my original post was "the fact that the D-XX syrups remain a liquid indicate that they are invert sugars?". I was not asking why invert sugars are used, or how they are different, simply whether the liquid state of the commercially available syrups is a good indicator of whether or not they are inverted. Not super important, just a minor curiosity.

Sucrose is a disccharide whereas glucose and fructose are monosaccharides. So chemically they are different and their metabolism by yeast is slightly different.

can you provide a reference that says there is no flavor difference between the two in a direct comparison?

I don't doubt that invert is often used because it is easier to handle, but i do question whether there is zero difference between the two when it comes to beer making. That has not been my experience. A google search shows a number of references (admittedly anecdotal) which describe table sugar as being more vinous and cidery and producing more fusel alcohols during fermentation whereas invert sugar provides a smoother character, a cleaner fermentation, and more flavor complexity (even using the same SRM sucrose vs glucose/fructose blend).

 

[mac_1103]

Sucrose is a disccharide whereas glucose and fructose are monosaccharides. So chemically they are different and their metabolism by yeast is slightly different.

The only difference is that the yeast have to convert the sucrose to glucose and fructose themselves.

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks alot, I will try the sugar solution!

To follow your example with 3-3.5volumes of carbonation and adding the sugar to the batch before bottling.. to break it down in steps so my smooth brain understands.. correct me If am wrong

Fermentation is done.
-Fill the fermentor with the sugar solution.
-Gently stir it, without stiring up the sediment.
-Then proceed with bottling
-Let the bottles stay in room temperature for 2-3weeks to accumulate carbonation
-Then store the bottles as cold as possible

A second question regarding fermentation temperatures..
My pillow castle now holds around 25-26°C. But I taped a termometer to the fermentor and it has 30°C!
So my question is... when the recipe calls to ferment in 25°C, is it the ambient temperatur or the temperature of the wort?

Smooth Brain

a couple tweaks:

Fermentation is done
-use a priming sugar calculator to carefully calculate the correct amount of sugar to add
-transfer the beer into a keg or a bottling bucket (separate vessel)
-Add the priming sugar solution
-mix thoroughly
-bottle as normal
-let the bottles sit at room temp for 2-3 weeks
-store the bottles as cold as possible.

Its the temperature of the wort that matters

 

[TheMadKing]

The only difference is that the yeast have to convert the sucrose to glucose and fructose themselves.

Can you provide a source that the production of invertase to make that conversion does not result in yeast stress or any flavor difference?

 

[Roysag]

Smooth Brain

a couple tweaks:

Fermentation is done
-use a priming sugar calculator to carefully calculate the correct amount of sugar to add
-transfer the beer into a keg or a bottling bucket (separate vessel)
-Add the priming sugar solution
-mix thoroughly
-bottle as normal
-let the bottles sit at room temp for 2-3 weeks
-store the bottles as cold as possible.

Its the temperature of the wort that matters

Ah crap, i gotta put it in room temperature to cool it down i guess? or would temp changes ruin it more?

 

[mac_1103]

Yeast express high levels of sucrase/invertase constitutively. Sucrose doesn't stress yeast, unless maybe by osmotic shock if you pitch into a really concentrated solution.

There certainly will be flavor differences from using table sugar vs invert sugar vs candi sugar vs candi syrup, but it seems highly unlikely that they result from sucrose metabolism.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yeast express high levels of sucrase/invertase constitutively. Sucrose doesn't stress yeast, unless maybe by osmotic shock if you pitch into a really concentrated solution.

There certainly will be flavor differences from using table sugar vs invert sugar vs candi sugar vs candi syrup, but it seems highly unlikely that they result from sucrose metabolism.

Then why did you say there is zero difference between using invert sugar vs sucrose in brewing if there are flavor differences?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00021369.1984.10866160

This paper seems to indicate that the production of some esters is significantly different in two media where the only difference is sucrose vs glucose, so other than metabolic differences I don't see what else could be causing that.

In either case this isn't helping OP, and is off topic, apologies

 

[mac_1103]

Then why did you say there is zero difference between using invert sugar vs sucrose in brewing if there are flavor differences?

I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the difference in the metabolism of sucrose vs glucose and fructose was minor, which is basically what you said too.

Also, I'd be careful extrapolating from a study on the fermentation of single carbon sources to fermentation of complex wort.

 

[Roysag]

Smooth Brain

a couple tweaks:

Fermentation is done
-use a priming sugar calculator to carefully calculate the correct amount of sugar to add
-transfer the beer into a keg or a bottling bucket (separate vessel)
-Add the priming sugar solution
-mix thoroughly
-bottle as normal
-let the bottles sit at room temp for 2-3 weeks
-store the bottles as cold as possible.

Its the temperature of the wort that matters

Do you think that the M31 yeast died now that my wort is 30 °C?
It is still fermenting though, but that could be the Kveik which tolerate really high temps?

 

[TheMadKing]

I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the difference in the metabolism of sucrose vs glucose and fructose was minor, which is basically what you said too.

Also, I'd be careful extrapolating from a study on the fermentation of single carbon sources to fermentation of complex wort.

Yes I think we agree on the fact that the metabolic differences are minor, but in your original response (and maybe I'm misinterpreting here), you said "it doesn't matter for beer".

I took that to mean that you were saying these ingredients are interchangeable without any difference to the finished beer, and I don't agree with that.

 

[TheMadKing]

Do you think that the M31 yeast died now that my wort is 30 °C?
It is still fermenting though, but that could be the Kveik which tolerate really high temps?

No, all yeasts can tolerate the same temps as kveik, they just throw more fusel alcohols and esters at higher temps. The cool thing about kveik is not that it survives higher temperatures than other yeasts, it's that it ferments cleanly at high temperatures compared to other yeasts

 

[Roysag]

No, all yeasts can tolerate the same temps as kveik, they just throw more fusel alcohols and esters at higher temps. The cool thing about kveik is not that it survives higher temperatures than other yeasts, it's that it ferments cleanly at high temperatures compared to other yeasts

Phuh, then it maybe isn't totally ruined!

What would your advice for fermentation be in my case now. The original plan was 25°C for 5 days then 28°C 3 days.
Now the wort is 30°C. Should i try decrease the temp and try follow the original plan
Or keep the temp as it is?

 

[IslandLizard]

The original plan was 25°C for 5 days then 28°C 3 days.
Now the wort is 30°C.

Plans are intentions, but yeast is not aware of those. Instead, you should "listen" to the yeast, by observing the fermentation as it progresses.

In general we like to keep out ferm temps steady, at an appropriate temp for the yeast strain we use and our vision of what the final beer will taste like. She'll react to the environment, the warmer it gets, the faster she'll ferment, raising the temps, fermenting even faster...

In your case, you do want the yeast to create some esters in your Belgian style beer, so fermenting in the yeast strain's higher temp range is appropriate. But you don't want her to go rampant, creating fusel alcohols and other bad tasting byproducts. Keeping her steady around 25C (for this yeast) would be better, and don't let her go much higher. When fermentation starts to slow you can ramp up a few degrees to keep her engaged, making sure she'll finish the job.

You also want to prevent sudden temp drops, such as can happen overnight, as that may cause her to (unintentionally) stall, and very difficult to resurrect. So again, try to keep fermentation temps steady, and up a few degrees toward the end.

When all the spectacular action is over, your beer is not quite done yet. The yeast needs to finish the job, conditioning the beer, so a week (or 2 weeks, or even longer, depending on the beer) at room temps (20-24C) will help with that. Leave it in the original fermenter, don't open it, let it be for the whole conditioning time.*

* You could bottle condition instead, which is preferred for some styles, but you will have a bit of a yeast cake on the bottom of every bottle.

Now, just for terminology sake, remember, as soon as yeast is added to wort it becomes... beer!
So we're always fermenting beer, not wort.

 

[Roysag]

Plans are intentions, but yeast is not aware of those. Instead, you should "listen" to the yeast, by observing the fermentation as it progresses.

In general we like to keep out ferm temps steady, at an appropriate temp for the yeast strain we use and our vision of what the final beer will taste like. She'll react to the environment, the warmer it gets, the faster she'll ferment, raising the temps, fermenting even faster...

In your case, you do want the yeast to create some esters in your Belgian style beer, so fermenting in the yeast strain's higher temp range is appropriate. But you don't want her to go rampant, creating fusel alcohols and other bad tasting byproducts. Keeping her steady around 25C (for this yeast) would be better, and don't let her go much higher. When fermentation starts to slow you can ramp up a few degrees to keep her engaged, making sure she'll finish the job.

You also want to prevent sudden temp drops, such as can happen overnight, as that may cause her to (unintentionally) stall, and very difficult to resurrect. So again, try to keep fermentation temps steady, and up a few degrees toward the end.

When all the spectacular action is over, your beer is not quite done yet. The yeast needs to finish the job, conditioning the beer, so a week (or 2 weeks, or even longer, depending on the beer) at room temps (20-24C) will help with that. Leave it in the original fermenter, don't open it, let it be for the whole conditioning time.*

* You could bottle condition instead, which is preferred for some styles, but you will have a bit of a yeast cake on the bottom of every bottle.

Now, just for terminology sake, remember, as soon as yeast is added to wort it becomes... beer!
So we're always fermenting beer, not wort.

Thank you for the thorough answer!
I will try to decrease the temperature to 25°C while maintaining fermentation and then "listen" to the yeast i hope the short heat stroke wont make too much off flavours.

 

[IslandLizard]

1 pkg — Mangrove Jack's M31 Belgian Tripel

From MJ's website:
For best results, ferment at 18-28 degrees C (64-82 degrees F).

That's a fairly large range, so 22-25C would be an excellent target . When it starts to taper off raise it a 2-5C degrees over a few days.

Especially in the beginning of fermentation it's best to prevent yeast from binging at high temps, as that's where most fermentation byproducts are being created.

Now you're brewing a Belgian style beer, and Belgian yeasts are quite forgiving when used in their higher temp range. You may get a bit more bubblegum and clove flavors and such, compared to lower temps.

 

[Roysag]

1 pkg — Mangrove Jack's M31 Belgian Tripel

From MJ's website:
For best results, ferment at 18-28 degrees C (64-82 degrees F).

That's a fairly large range, so 22-25C would be an excellent target . When it starts to taper off raise it a 2-5C degrees over a few days.

Especially in the beginning of fermentation it's best to prevent yeast from binging at high temps, as that's where most fermentation byproducts are being created.

Now you're brewing a Belgian style beer, and Belgian yeasts are quite forgiving when used in their higher temp range. You may get a bit more bubblegum and clove flavors and such, compared to lower temps.

The beer is now at 24.4 degrees and dont hear more bubbles from the blow off in a while. It sure smells bubbelgum and little banana, and not sulfur! (which I had problems with previous brew)

Can beer with such high OG complete fermentation already? Or should i try up the temp a bit to see If it starts again? Or take a hydrometer reading?

 

[TheMadKing]

The beer is now at 24.4 degrees and dont hear more bubbles from the blow off in a while. It sure smells bubbelgum and little banana, and not sulfur! (which I had problems with previous brew)

Can beer with such high OG complete fermentation already? Or should i try up the temp a bit to see If it starts again? Or take a hydrometer reading?

lack of bubbles doesn't mean its entirely done - patience young jedi

I'd give it another 4-5 days to really let that yeast just finish what it's doing

 

[IslandLizard]

Can beer with such high OG complete fermentation already? Or should i try up the temp a bit to see If it starts again? Or take a hydrometer reading?

It could be mostly done, yes, having been at those high temps.*
Let it be for another week, better 2 weeks, to condition out. Don't open it, gravity readings are not useful right now anyway. Opening it up will let air inside the fermenter, potentially causing oxidation, which is what you want to avoid.

* How did you measure those temps?

 

[Roysag]

Thanks guys for your replies during these times of need!
I will try practice patience

I have taped our outdoor thermometer sensor to the middle of the fermentor.
This is my 5th batch of beer and I have until now thought that it is the room temperature that matters, not the ambient temperature.