Primary Fermentation question

[zarathustra19]

Okay, so I've actually been brewing for about three years now, and with the lighter beers I've made good progress. However, I thought I'd post this in the beginners forum since its really my first "dark" beer.

I'm brewing a porter, and the recipe calls for leaving the wort in the primary for two weeks. However, after about five days now, I've reached the estimated FG for the brew and tasted a sample. It seems like it might be close to done. There still might be a few fermentables that need to be used up (I'm thinking the FG will bottom out around 1.010, rather than 1.013, so it's negligible), but I don't know that I necessarily need another week in the primary before racking.

My question is whether or not the beer will significantly improve from another week in the primary or if I should just rack to the secondary and onto my flavor additive (toasted coconut). Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Zach

 

[usfmikeb]

Keep in mind that the yeast can eat some undesired byproducts as well. Generally speaking, I don't move into a secondary for at least two weeks, usually more like a month. I'm a big fan of letting the yeast work its magic, and found that the longer I left my beer alone, the better it tasted in the end.

 

[unionrdr]

I like to try & preserve hop flavors as much as possible. So when it gets down to a stable FG,I then let it sit on the yeast cake for 3-5 days more to clean up & settle out more. That's one of the big things to remember about extract brewing,anyway. Let'em drop clear,then rack onto priming solution,or secondary if adding something.

 

[RM-MN]

I've bottled some beers after only a week per the kit instructions. The beer usually ends up overcarbed to the point that in pouring, 3/4 of the glass is foam no matter how carefully I pour. Let yours have the benefit of another week at least or even 2 more if you can stand the wait. You'll have better beer for it.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,actually getting down to a stable FG can take 3 or 4 weeks on average then adding time to clean up & settle on top of that. So yeah,don't be in a rush to get to your beer. It's not a quick process,even though it is quicker than wine making was,ime.

 

[BryanJ]

^ The only time a beer needs 3 to 4 weeks if you have a slow moving saison yeast that takes a while to reach its finished gravity. I've had a saison that was still slowly fermenting after a month in the primary. An average ale yeast is done fermenting much quicker around one to two weeks.

Zach, as this is a porter depending on your OG the beer will benefit greatly from aging. As its your first dark beer I would suggest that you give the beer at least another week in primary before bottling. Then over the course of the next 2 to 3 months sample one per week so you can see the benefits of aging certain styles. Don't rush a porter they need some time.

 

[unionrdr]

No,they're not quit that fast. I've had them finish in 12 days once,& that was the cooper's OS lager I brewed straight up just to see what it was like before changing it.
With OG's around 1.050,they've taken some 3.5 weeks to finish,clean up,& settle. That's the thing with extract beers,they're better if you let them settle out to where they're mostly clear before racking to bottle,etc.
But one week,no. Never had one completely done & clear in a week. Def not a common average,by any means. If they're light on gravity,maybe. But not a pale ale,& that's pretty much all I've done. & I've used starters,re-hydrated with a little dextrose,used more than one packet at decent ale yeast temps too. I've had to use a blow off nearly every time. Maybe with electronic temp control.

 

[Mpavlik22]

But one week,no. Never had one completely done & clear in a week. Def not a common average,by any means.

Regardless of gravity, i've never had a beer with ale yeast ferment longer than 7 days. Its not clear by then but they always reach FG by then. I give them another week then cold crash and keg. My lager yeasts can take 2 weeks to reach FG, but not ale yeasts.

 

[unionrdr]

Are you using some type of temp control? I don't have much in the way of that. But they do come out good...

 

[seabass07]

I've had a large beer take 2 full weeks to reach fg. But in the last week it only dropped 6 more points. It was also pushing the yeast past it's normal alcohol tolerance.

By day 7, it's usually at fg. I usually give it a week after hitting fg before bottling. 5 days to clean up and 2 days of cold crash before bottling. IMO, cold crashing negates the need for a secondary unless adding something to the beer.

 

[unionrdr]

How "big" of a beer was it? Even from others experiences,I haven't seen a big beer of 1.080 or so get down to FG in 2 weeks flat. In my Burton ale,which was OG 1.065,I re-hydrated 28g of ale yeast,& some 4 weeks later,I may finally be at FG. I'll be checking it tomorrow.
But,as I asked,is temp control being employed,huge brew sized starters? That's a bit quick in my experiences,not to mention,many others.

 

[seabass07]

It was 1.115 and went down to 1.012. After 7 days it was at 1.018. It slowly went down to 1.012 over the second week. It ended up around 13.5%abv with pacman yeast. I also stop my temp control after around 5 days or when it's most of the way to FG. I find that I get better attenuation that way. So it goes up to about 70 or 72 for the remainder of the clean up week.

 

[Yooper]

How "big" of a beer was it? Even from others experiences,I haven't seen a big beer of 1.080 or so get down to FG in 2 weeks flat. In my Burton ale,which was OG 1.065,I re-hydrated 28g of ale yeast,& some 4 weeks later,I may finally be at FG. I'll be checking it tomorrow.
But,as I asked,is temp control being employed,huge brew sized starters? That's a bit quick in my experiences,not to mention,many others.

A 1.080 beer can easily get to FG in 4-5 days.

 

[seabass07]

But,as I asked,is temp control being employed,huge brew sized starters? That's a bit quick in my experiences,not to mention,many others.

Even at 62F I've had 1.080 beers hit fg in a week. I always use at least a 1/2 gallon starter though.

 

[unionrdr]

Ok...so it's a tanker sized starter,& temp control. I knew that had to be the 2 mitigating factors. Thanks for clearing that up. Some weren't answering the most pertinent questions I'd already asked. Great,now I have to figure out how I can afford something for temp control & be retired... Because without those 2 things,it ain't gunna go that quick. A lot of us are in that boat. It just bugs me that I pitched 28g of re-hydrated ale yeast that took off early the next morning like a Saturn 5 booster. And it was just a 1.065 Burton ale I'm trying out.
It stalled at 1.020,or so I thought. Historical info never gives the FG's. But from what I found,FG's were upwards of 1.020...oopsie....at least I hope not. Burton ale v2 is coming soon to an argument near you!

 

[seabass07]

There's another reason I only use temp control for the first 5 days. I get tired as hell of swapping out ice packs out of the ice bath! That's my temp control...my 8 gallon bucket fits into my 19" wide kettle. I fill it with water and swap out gel ice packs to keep the temp in check. It really is a PITA!

 

[BryanJ]

Usually without temp control the fermentation is a higher temperature which results with a faster fermentation. Make sure to use good yeast with proper pitching rates. How do you oxygenate your beer after you finish your boil union? This also has a large effect on fermentation.

 

[Mpavlik22]

Are you using some type of temp control? I don't have much in the way of that. But they do come out good...

Fermentation control would actually slow fermentation. Not speed it up unless ur ambient air temp is within fermentation ranges per the yeast strain used.

 

[unionrdr]

Usually without temp control the fermentation is a higher temperature which results with a faster fermentation. Make sure to use good yeast with proper pitching rates. How do you oxygenate your beer after you finish your boil union? This also has a large effect on fermentation.

Yeah,I know from experience (!!) that warmer makes fermentation go faster,but I've been keeping it about 69-73-ish F. After initial fermentation slows down,it stays around 69-70F. But pale ales even average about 3 weeks this way (sometimes includes the 3-5 day rest rule I talk about).
Anyway,I chill the wort in an ice bath down to 70-ish in 20 minutes. Then pout my fine mesh strainer on top of the open fermenter,& pour the chilled wort & top off water through that. It always makes 3-5 inches of froth. Then stir with my paddle for 5 minutes solid,whippin it good.

Fermentation control would actually slow fermentation. Not speed it up unless ur ambient air temp is within fermentation ranges per the yeast strain used.

Yeah,it does slow fermentation down in the usual sense. But if held at a particular temp,it makes a big yeast pitch go faster,if these stories are to be believed. It just feels like certain people are trying to make me look like the lyin a-hole spreading false info like some damn troll. I always relate things from my own personal experiences. I don't try to befuddle them with BS! Some folks were just being mean,flaming %^#$%#$!#$. Just speaking in general,not to be personal. Look through the previous posts. If there ever was such a thing as polite flaming,that was it. They can stop polishing there halos anytime now,& pound those horns back in!
Thanx for listening...

 

[BryanJ]

Union, that temperature is a little high but it is dependent on your yeast strain. Dont forget that fermentation does raise the temp of the beer by a few degrees. Even with all of that taken into account, a typical fermentation for you sounds off if its at 3-4 weeks. What type of yeast do you use when you when you get your typical 3-4 week fermentation? Do you have proper pitching rates? What do you mean when you say typical fermentation?

It seems like people are trying to help you. At least in this thread.

 

[seabass07]

No flaming intended on my end. Not even polite flaming. I dont doubt your experience. I am curious about why your experience is so different from mine. There has to be a reason. And most importantly, if you make good beer theres no reason to change your methods.

 

[unionrdr]

It started with politely calling me a liar when I 1st mentioned how long a typical fermentation goes for me. They come out fine,just not in one week flat. I've used cooper's ale yeast every time but one,where my wife used the US-05 that came in her BB kit. The 05 took just as long as mine. I used a small,1.5C starter for my 7g packet of ale yeast,she pitched the 11.5g of 05 dry. Hers was no more vigorous than mine. & those were at or near OG 1,050.
This time,I re-hydrated four 7g packets of cooper's ale yeast in 2C of boiled water with 1 TBSP dextrose added. Big mistake,insomuch as krausen going all over like a remake of The Blob. Needed a blow off big time. Took a OG 1.065 down to 1.020. Probably in a week,as the blow off was needed 4 days.
I just didn't bother to check it till my customary 2 weeks. 3rd week,still 1.020.
So I roused it & put an old,fleece lined CPO over it to warm it up a bit. I'm beginning to think that was a good FG for a Burton,which seems to be related somehow to a wee heavy. The top shelf Burton ales were said to have OG's north of 1.150!! The #3 Burton I'm attempting was said to be 1.080-1.085,I got 1.065 out of 10.5lbs of malt. Cooper's ale yeast is said to be good from 62F to 72F,though it can take more. Giving fruity esters,though,but not entirely unpleasant. It actually accents the citrus flavors in my IPA. And I've kept the room cool to almost cold as long as I could stand it. Especially during initial fermentation.

 

[usfmikeb]

Gentlemen, we all see different results based on the water we use, process, temperature, pitching rates, age of ingredients, etc. This is a place for all of us to enjoy beer and the art of brewing it. Everyone has their own opinion, based on their own experiences. No reason to get heated over it, just move along if someone's being negative.

Hope everyone has a great Sunday!

 

[BryanJ]

Every brewer i know and talk to have 1-2 week of actual fermenting beer. I'd highly suggest not using coopers ale yeast anymore. I think you will have much better results with different yeast, but thats just me. Your process sounds fine so you should look at your ingredients.

If you can't handle being politely corrected, then the internet is not a place for you. Everybody is wrong on occasion and whining about it isn't the best way to go.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,I know Mike. Just was never one to walk away from a fight,so to speak,when ,as far as I know,I'm right.
That being said,I have another gravity sample in front of me. It's four weeks today since pitching. It's def clearing,but still a little bit cloudy. Stubborn yeasties,I dare say. It's gone down .002 to 1.018 in a week,I was thinking a couple of points at least. But,since it's about 50% clearer than last Sunday,I think it's about done. So this attempt will be a little sweet,as the #3 Burton ale was said to be. Purty sort of rusty amber color,almost coppery,as the old news adds said. Hard to smell it from the hydrometer tube,but sweet malty aroma is the first in evidence. Taste is about the same,with some bite from the US Golding,Fuggle,& Willamette used. Still green,but promising. No off flavors to speak of. But I think I'll cut it down to 5G next time & at least get closer to the original's OG. I just noticed that it does leave a little sweetness on the lips from the malts used.
I see it as a little different when I'm basically being told I'm wrong. But that was my experiences I've been relating. So it's not like I can't take some critiquing,it just didn't come across feeling that way. Let's just move on & get back to matters at hand. This hydro sample is actually tasting pretty good. But not quite what I want yet. They just didn't relate how sweet it actually was?...