Pretty Excited About Kegging

[Taylormade]

I brewed my first two batches of beer on Nov 23d. I made two clones, Fat Tire and Newcastle. Everything went really well, save for a burn incurred by not remembering I had cold water primed in my wort chiller that shot out boiling when I immersed it. I let them sit in primary fermenters for 8 days and put them in the car boys on Monday.

From what I understand, I should let them sit in secondary for a total of two weeks before kegging them? I plan on force carbonating one while using priming sugar in the Fat Tire batch and bottling a 12 pack (just so I can say I've done it) and letting it sit in the keg with 20# on it for a few days.

Anyway, I've read a few threads where people aren't waiting a total of three weeks before kegging and wanted to get a consensus I suppose. Other than that, I'm stoked and wanted to share with people who "get it" :rockin:

 

[gr8shandini]

Welcome to the club. Kegs are definitely the way to go.

The term "secondary" is a bit of a misnomer. Primary fermentation for most ales is over in 3-5 days and secondary fermentation (i.e. the yeast breaking down intermediate compounds into alcohol) is usually finished about 48 - 72 hours later. The "secondary fermenter" is actually a "bright tank" used to let the yeast settle out so that you get clear beer. The great thing about a keg is that it also makes an excellent bright tank that allows you to get a jump on carbonation. A secondary fermenter is not required.

And as far as carbonation goes, the pressure you want to use depends on the temperature of the beer. To figure it out, consult a chart such as this:

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

2.5 volumes of CO2 is a good starting place for most beers and that turns out to be about 12 psi at 40 degrees. Since you don't want to mess around with different storage and service pressures, you're going to want to make sure that you have at least 6' of 3/16" tubing to your faucet so that you don't get excessive foam with 12 psi in the keg.

For your Fat Tire clone, if you do want to "naturally" carbonate a keg, be advised that many cornies don't properly seal without 5 psi or so on them. If you just throw in some sugar, the CO2 may just leak out unless you keep a little pressure on it.

However, despite what folks say, CO2 in solution is CO2 in solution no matter how it gets there. Force carbonation is so much easier and more predictable than the "natural" method that it's really the only way to go.

And finally, to bottle from a keg, search this forum for the "BMBF". You can put one together for pennies and it makes your keg beer portable. Good stuff.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Are you certain that they were finished after only 8 days? I never transfer a beer before it is in the primary at least 2 weeks. I will then take a hydrometer reading 2 days apart to make sure that it is finished, then transfer to a keg for dry hopping or carbonation (depending on the style). The only time I transfer to a secondary carboy is for bulk aging my sours.

 

[gr8shandini]

Well, the way I count it, Nov 28 was at least 12 days ago. Pretty close to 14 days, no? There's very little doubt he's at FG.

Anyway, if proper temperatures are maintained, primary fermentation lasts from 2-5 days and conditioning another 2-4. So, despite what a lot of folks advocate here, 10-14 days in primary is enough.

 

[fmr_army]

Welcome to brewing! Good call on going straight to kegging. SOOOOOOO much easier and less time-consuming than bottling.

I rarely leave beer in primary more than about a week. The exceptions are: big beers, laziness, forgetfulness and lack of time. I use a secondary, as previously mentioned, to allow more schmag to settle out and give me a more clear beer. Because I've been doing it that way, the timing for my beer pipeline is tuned to it.

When I want to have "portable beer", I'll sanitize some bottles and fill straight from the tap. I fill down the side, trying to minimize foam, but a little foam is good since it pushed out any air that might harm my beer. However, since I usually don't let my portable beer hang around in bottles very long, it hasn't ever been an issue.

If you really are set on naturally carbing in a keg, I'd recommend that you add the sugar, close the keg up and pressurize it with CO2 to get a good seal. Then clear the headspace by opening the pressure release valve a couple times. I will caution that you're going to have to keep a close eye on the pressure in your keg - if your original beer wasn't completely fermented out, you could wind up with an overly carbonated (and pressurized) keg.

 

[beertroll]

You should be excited about kegging; kegging is awesome.

 

[passedpawn]

I brewed my first two batches of beer on Nov 23d. I made two clones, Fat Tire and Newcastle. Everything went really well, save for a burn incurred by not remembering I had cold water primed in my wort chiller that shot out boiling when I immersed it. I let them sit in primary fermenters for 8 days and put them in the car boys on Monday.

From what I understand, I should let them sit in secondary for a total of two weeks before kegging them? I plan on force carbonating one while using priming sugar in the Fat Tire batch and bottling a 12 pack (just so I can say I've done it) and letting it sit in the keg with 20# on it for a few days.

Anyway, I've read a few threads where people aren't waiting a total of three weeks before kegging and wanted to get a consensus I suppose. Other than that, I'm stoked and wanted to share with people who "get it" :rockin:

I ferment for about 10 days, then 2 or 3 days cold crash, then into kegs. Lagers and beers > 1.070 I'll give another week.

 

[Taylormade]

For your Fat Tire clone, if you do want to "naturally" carbonate a keg, be advised that many cornies don't properly seal without 5 psi or so on them. If you just throw in some sugar, the CO2 may just leak out unless you keep a little pressure on it.

However, despite what folks say, CO2 in solution is CO2 in solution no matter how it gets there. Force carbonation is so much easier and more predictable than the "natural" method that it's really the only way to go.

And finally, to bottle from a keg, search this forum for the "BMBF". You can put one together for pennies and it makes your keg beer portable. Good stuff.

Thanks for the feedback! I was under the impression that it was better to allow the C02 to carbonate naturally over the course of a few days but if it's better to force carbonate it, that's great news! I'll check out BMBF, thanks!

Are you certain that they were finished after only 8 days? I never transfer a beer before it is in the primary at least 2 weeks.

Yeah, I'm sure. Both recipe instructions said 7-10 days. They both started fermenting (at least bubbling the air locks) within 12 hours and they were both done bubbling for at least 15 hours (I was out of town before then) before I transferred them into the secondaries. I've kept a mindful eye on them since and no activity at all. The S locks are both level in water and haven't bubbled once since they've been moved.

Well, the way I count it, Nov 28 was at least 12 days ago. Pretty close to 14 days, no? There's very little doubt he's at FG.

Anyway, if proper temperatures are maintained, primary fermentation lasts from 2-5 days and conditioning another 2-4. So, despite what a lot of folks advocate here, 10-14 days in primary is enough.

It was only 8 days in primary and 5 and counting in secondary.

When I want to have "portable beer", I'll sanitize some bottles and fill straight from the tap. I fill down the side, trying to minimize foam, but a little foam is good since it pushed out any air that might harm my beer. However, since I usually don't let my portable beer hang around in bottles very long, it hasn't ever been an issue.

.

Outstanding idea and thanks for the info on force carbing. I was only planning on letting it sit because I thought it was right. Now that I've been schooled, I'm much happier.

 

[beertroll]

Letting it sit is only necessary if it's a big beer or if you had a suboptimal fermentation and need to let some off flavors age out. You also don't really need the secondary unless you're doing something like a fruit addition or aging on oak. Next time, just leave it in the primary until you're ready to keg.

 

[BigFloyd]

Next batch, unless you're adding fruit or doing long-term aging, just leave it in the primary and skip the secondary. Check gravity at 10 days. Check again at 14 days. If it's the same, cold crash the primary (if you can) into the 30's for 3-7 days then keg it cold. For gassing, I usually just seal, purge and then stick it on serving pressure (12psi) for 12-14 days and it's good to go.

 

[Taylormade]

Ok, so a lot of awesome information has been shared here. I guess I have a question or two:

1. My beers have been in secondary since Monday morning. Are you saying it's ok to put them in kegs this weekend and start sloshing around (the beer, not me)?

2. When space permits, should I be allowing these to ferment in my keezer after 7-10 days? It's set to 36. If so, I put them in there for 3-4 days and then force carb, then back in the freezer for a few more?

 

[CA_Mouse]

Just so that someone reminds you.... Lack of airlock activity does not always mean a beer is finished. That is just a sign that the bulk of the active fermentation is over. At that point the yeast starts cleaning up after itself (eating longer chain sugars and removing dialectal and other off aromas and flavors. Again, this is why I leave mine alone for a minimum of 10 days, usually I just wait to day 13 and test, test again on day 15 and keg. I don't bother with cold crashing, I just put the CO2 on at 20 PSI, roll my keg back and forth for about 30 seconds and stick it in my fridge. 24 hours later I purge the pressure, set it to 8-12 PSI for serving, wait another 12 hours and pull a cloudy pint. Usually the second pint is pretty clear and is at the right carbonation level.

 

[beertroll]

Ok, so a lot of awesome information has been shared here. I guess I have a question or two:

1. My beers have been in secondary since Monday morning. Are you saying it's ok to put them in kegs this weekend and start sloshing around (the beer, not me)?

2. When space permits, should I be allowing these to ferment in my keezer after 7-10 days? It's set to 36. If so, I put them in there for 3-4 days and then force carb, then back in the freezer for a few more?

1) Let your palate decide. Pull a sample, and if it tastes clean you can cold crash it. If it's still muddy, let it ride a little longer in the mid 60s. If it's buttery (it probably won't be with an ale yeast), bump it up to the low 70s.

2) I'd say after 12-15 days, but yeah. You aren't letting it ferment in your keezer, as fermentation should be long finished by that point. What you're doing at that point is what's called a cold crash. Rapidly chilling the beer knocks most of the remaining active yeast into dormancy. It clarifies the beer and compacts the yeast cake so that when you siphon into the keg you transfer very little sediment. I find that 24-48 hours is usually sufficient prior to kegging. You want to cold condition for longer than that, but that happens in the keg too. Cold conditioning causes remaining yeast and proteins to precipitate out of the beer, improving the appearance and flavor.

 

[gr8shandini]

Ok, so a lot of awesome information has been shared here. I guess I have a question or two:

1. My beers have been in secondary since Monday morning. Are you saying it's ok to put them in kegs this weekend and start sloshing around (the beer, not me)?

2. When space permits, should I be allowing these to ferment in my keezer after 7-10 days? It's set to 36. If so, I put them in there for 3-4 days and then force carb, then back in the freezer for a few more?

Your beer has actually been done fermenting for a while now. It's usually over in 3-5 days. What you're doing now is called conditioning and it doesn't really matter where it happens, in the primary, in a secondary, or in a keg or a bottle. For a few days, the yeast are converting some intermediate compounds that they made during the initial feeding frenzy. But somewhere around day 8-10, that's done too. After that you're just waiting for the yeast to fall out of suspension. At room temperature, that takes a while, but if you chill the beer quickly, it shocks them into going dormant right away. That's the "cold crash" folks talk about.

So, if you have room in your keezer, here's what I'd do. Put your secondary(s) in there and crank it down to something just above freezing. 36 degrees or so. After 2 or 3 days, you'll see that the beer is now just slightly hazy with a small layer of yeast on the bottom. Now rack into the keg while trying to disturb that yeast layer as little as possible. It won't hurt anything if it makes it to the keg, but it's just more yeast you'll have to deal with in your first pint or two.

At this point, I also like to add some gelatin. Strictly optional, but it helps the beer clear faster and keeps the debris that's going to end up in the bottom of the keg more securely in place. So if you need to move the keg, you won't have to wait as long for the beer to clear again. 1/2 to one packet of Knox unflavored gelatin from the grocery store dissolved in about a pint of hot, but not boiling water.

Once you've got it in the keg, carbonate by the method of your choice, put it back in the keezer. If you used gelatin, your beer will be crystal clear in 2 or 3 days. If you didn't, it'll be mostly clear in a week, but there might still be a little haze for another week. Either way, you're going to have a ton of yeast in the first few ounces. No problem, just toss it. The first pint or two after that will be a little cloudy, but drinkable, and after that you're good to go.

 

[Taylormade]

Well alright! I've got the carboys in the keezer "cold crashing" and I THINK I have some gelatin packets in the pantry, if not, that's a quick trip to the store. I think I'll let them sit until tomorrow mid day (I put them in last night) and then rack them into the kegs and force carbonate.

What a great community you guys have here, thanks so much for the help! I'll be absolutely sure to post back with pics of the prize!

 

[Taylormade]

As an update, I brewed my 3d batch today. Is there such thing as too soon fermentation? I finished brewing and put it into the fermenting bucket at 5pm and by 9 it was bubbling already. Not violently, but it's pretty active.

 

[BigFloyd]

As an update, I brewed my 3d batch today. Is there such thing as too soon fermentation? I finished brewing and put it into the fermenting bucket at 5pm and by 9 it was bubbling already. Not violently, but it's pretty active.

It depends. What temperature was your wort when you pitched yeast? Too warm can cause a quick take-off, but also gives unwanted flavors.

 

[paperairplane]

What beer? What yeast? What temp did you pitch at?

The yeast are alive, let them do their thing. Don't worry.

 

[Taylormade]

It's a Magic Hat clone and I pitched the yeast at about 80 degrees, maybe 75. It's a dry british style yeast.

 

[BigFloyd]

It's a Magic Hat clone and I pitched the yeast at about 80 degrees, maybe 75. It's a dry british style yeast.

That's probably why it took off so fast. An 80*F pitch is about 15-20 degrees too hot.

With this yeast (WLP007 perhaps?), I'd want to pitch at 60-62*F, let it come up to start at 64-65*F until it slows down (4-5 days or so) and finish at 70*F.

 

[Taylormade]

That's probably why it took off so fast. An 80*F pitch is about 15-20 degrees too hot.

With this yeast (WLP007 perhaps?), I'd want to pitch at 60-62*F, let it come up to start at 64-65*F until it slows down (4-5 days or so) and finish at 70*F.

Eesh. Yeah, I suppose I'd have to keep it in ice then. I used my wort chiller (copper) to get it down to 80 asap (that's what the instructions said) but it's been so god awful hot here in Tampa that I'd need to keep it in ice. I suppose I can do that. Thanks for the advice!!

 

[Taylormade]

Ok, I've got my fermenting bucket resting inside a 10 gallon turkey fryer bucket with some ice. Hopefully that'll cool it enough.

 

[BansheeRider]

Next batch, unless you're adding fruit or doing long-term aging, just leave it in the primary and skip the secondary. Check gravity at 10 days. Check again at 14 days. If it's the same, cold crash the primary (if you can) into the 30's for 3-7 days then keg it cold. For gassing, I usually just seal, purge and then stick it on serving pressure (12psi) for 12-14 days and it's good to go.

I don't understand how anybody can wait 14 days in the keg to drink their beer. I carbonate at 30psi for 24-36 hours and then set to serving pressure. By the 2nd day it is normally ready to drink.

 

[InityBrew]

I don't understand how anybody can wait 14 days in the keg to drink their beer. I carbonate at 30psi for 24-36 hours and then set to serving pressure. By the 2nd day it is normally ready to drink.

+1. This is a great method for ipas and pales.. Especially when you've cold crashed prior to kegging. Beer is carbed and somewhat clear in a few days.

 

[Taylormade]

Update: I have force carbed the fat tire clone. Put the regulator up to 30 and rocked it back and forth for about 10 minutes or so until the gas stopped hissing and only a high pitched whine was present.

I put it back in the keezer with 30# on it and it's resting.

The keg I have for newcastle has a faulty gas valve apparently. It's leaking pretty bad. I'll have to go to the home brew store I bought it from at noon when they open.

I poured a sample from the Fat Tire and it was chunky. Understandable I suppose, since I shook it for 10 minutes.

Now it's just a waiting game, but I'm pretty damned excited!

 

[Yooper]

Update: I have force carbed the fat tire clone. Put the regulator up to 30 and rocked it back and forth for about 10 minutes or so until the gas stopped hissing and only a high pitched whine was present.

I put it back in the keezer with 30# on it and it's resting.

The keg I have for newcastle has a faulty gas valve apparently. It's leaking pretty bad. I'll have to go to the home brew store I bought it from at noon when they open.

I poured a sample from the Fat Tire and it was chunky. Understandable I suppose, since I shook it for 10 minutes.

Now it's just a waiting game, but I'm pretty damned excited!

I am NOT a fan of the shaking method. If you're in a huge hurry (and I always am lately!), set it at 30 psi, and don't touch it. Leave it for 24 hours if the beer is already cold, or 36 hours for a warm keg. Purge it, then reset at 12 psi. Take a tiny sample- it will be full of sludge and debris. Discard that, and the keg should pour clear. It should be pretty well carbed in 48 hours, improving over the next day or two.

By shaking it, you may overcarb and you will suspend all that sediment. If you let it sit still, you will not overcarb (at least not in 36 hours) and you can discard the sediment and have a nice clear beer.

If you shook it at 30 psi, I'd definitely purge it right now and reset it to 12 psi otherwise you're going to have a massively overcarbed beer (assuming it's cold).

 

[masonsjax]

Patience is a much easier feat to conquer when you have multiple taps and a full pipeline. Keep brewing, it gets better.

 

[BansheeRider]

I am NOT a fan of the shaking method. If you're in a huge hurry (and I always am lately!), set it at 30 psi, and don't touch it. Leave it for 24 hours if the beer is already cold, or 36 hours for a warm keg. Purge it, then reset at 12 psi. Take a tiny sample- it will be full of sludge and debris. Discard that, and the keg should pour clear. It should be pretty well carbed in 48 hours, improving over the next day or two.

By shaking it, you may overcarb and you will suspend all that sediment. If you let it sit still, you will not overcarb (at least not in 36 hours) and you can discard the sediment and have a nice clear beer.

If you shook it at 30 psi, I'd definitely purge it right now and reset it to 12 psi otherwise you're going to have a massively overcarbed beer (assuming it's cold).

This ^ I am not a fan of shaking either. You've essentially shaken up a big can of beer and now it's full of foam and ready to explode. Purge the keg now and reset to serving pressure and try it in 24 hours. It is always easier to carbonate a beer to it's perfect volume rather than over carbonate and wait for it to mellow out.

 

[E_Marquez]

I am NOT a fan of the shaking method. If you're in a huge hurry (and I always am lately!), set it at 30 psi, and don't touch it. Leave it for 24 hours if the beer is already cold, or 36 hours for a warm keg. Purge it, then reset at 12 psi. Take a tiny sample- it will be full of sludge and debris. Discard that, and the keg should pour clear. It should be pretty well carbed in 48 hours, improving over the next day or two.

This has been a recipe for success in my venture into kegging.

I struggled with the first two in the keg, but the last 5 went perfectly using the process above...

I'm at 3 kegs on hand now (and three taps ) ,,,when I get to 5, 6, more on kegs on hand I'll have time to pressurize, set and forget. Till then, chilled to 2deg c, set to 30PSI for 24 hours, purge, set to 12 psi serving pressure and in 48 hours it's pouring niceley carbed beer. (Note as the keg empty's to about 1/2 way, I purge and reset pressure to 10PSI, otherwise I get more foaming than I would like)

 

[Taylormade]

Yikes, glad I checked back in. I have plenty of beer to choose from in other (store bought) kegs already, so I don't NEED to shake it up, I just thought that was the way to do it.

I've since purged the C02 from my Fat Tire and opened the C02 back up to the other two kegs and have them all set to 12. I have NO problem waiting for good beer!

 

[BigFloyd]

+1 on not shaking for the very reasons explained by Yooper.

My pipeline stays pretty full these days unless I'm doing multiple lagers. I usually just set at 12psi and give it 12-14 days.

 

[passedpawn]

+1 on not shaking for the very reasons explained by Yooper.

My pipeline stays pretty full these days unless I'm doing multiple lagers. I usually just set at 12psi and give it 12-14 days.

Me too. Full pipeline here, so never any hurry.

 

[Taylormade]

Ok, bought some o-rings and all's well with the Newcastle keg now. I've got a second C02 tank, just need another regulator, and then I can carbonate separately at higher pressures, while still enjoying my beer. It also gives me a little better flexibility with my serving pressures across the different kegs as well.

 

[Taylormade]

Update: As you'll recall, yesterday, after shaking it up at 30psi, I purged all the c02 and set it to 12psi.

This morning I thought I'd check out the progress. Glunk. One little tiny bit of beer came out, not even enough to fill a shot glass. Do I need to crank it up a bit? It was at 12psi for about 15 hours.

 

[BigFloyd]

Update: As you'll recall, yesterday, after shaking it up at 30psi, I purged all the c02 and set it to 12psi.

This morning I thought I'd check out the progress. Glunk. One little tiny bit of beer came out, not even enough to fill a shot glass. Do I need to crank it up a bit? It was at 12psi for about 15 hours.

That sounds like a stoppage problem, not lack of carb. The first thing I'd check is the pickup tube.

 

[Taylormade]

That sounds like a stoppage problem, not lack of carb. The first thing I'd check is the pickup tube.

You're correct, sir!

Pulled tube and it was plugged, probably from non-dissolved gelatin (oops). Once I cleared it, it was pouring smooth. Thanks!!

 

[BigFloyd]

You're correct, sir!

Pulled tube and it was plugged, probably from non-dissolved gelatin (oops). Once I cleared it, it was pouring smooth. Thanks!!

I'm glad to hear that got you up and running.

 

[Taylormade]

I'm glad to hear that got you up and running.

Yeah buddy! Now I just have to wait a little bit for the beer to even out. I pulled some last night and it's a little rough still, not as smooth as I expected. I think a few more days will do it well. I have the Newcastle sitting with 20# on it undisturbed. At some point today, I'll step it down to about 10#.

Thanks to all for your guidance and assurance!! Pics to come still

 

[Taylormade]

Ok, so the Newcastle is done and tastes really good! The Fat Tire may be a bit overcarbonated (imagine that) but I'll give it a few days to mellow out. I purged the CO2 out of it and turned it down to about 7psi.

Both are pretty cloudy still but that's expected at this stage.

Fat Tire Clone

And the Newcastle

 

[passedpawn]

Ok, so the Newcastle is done and tastes really good! The Fat Tire may be a bit overcarbonated (imagine that) but I'll give it a few days to mellow out. I purged the CO2 out of it and turned it down to about 7psi.

Both are pretty cloudy still but that's expected at this stage.

Fat Tire Clone

Looks good... I can almost taste that from here!