All my beers have this overpowering off flavor after bottling

[An Ankoù]

My previous brew has been in the bottle for 3 months and it is still undrinkable. I gotta say that off flavor existed even before bottling, but now it's overpowering all the other flavors, so here's what I'm gonna do next time, I will use bottled water, up the og, ferment cooler, more time in the carboy, then gelatin +cold crashing, more time in the bottle. I'll see if that changes anything, but given the problem exists in all my homebrews despite the fact that I used different yeast strains, different recipes, the problem might be my water. That's what all my batches have in common

That's almost certainly chlorine or chloramine in the water supply. It can easily be corrected with half a Campden tablet or a pinch of sodium (or potassium) metabisulphite in the mash and in the sparge liquor. The chlorine compounds react with the polyphenols in the hops during the boil to give an "antiseptic" flavour which has a very low taste threshhold and it won't improve with time.
In short, the beer;s ruined. Chuck it and start again, but don't let any untreated water get into the brew before bottling.

I was taken by surprise when I moved to France. Previously I had been using water from the hot-water header tank of my old house and here I started using water directly from the mains. My beer was sometimes ok and sometimes undrinkable. I discovered that instead of simply chlorinating the supply, they "flushed" the system with chlorine from time to time to keep the pipes clean.

 

[mac_1103]

That's almost certainly chlorine or chloramine in the water supply. It can easily be corrected with half a Campden tablet or a pinch of sodium (or potassium) metabisulphite in the mash and in the sparge liquor.

OP said that he uses metabisulfite.

 

[An Ankoù]

OP said that he uses metabisulfite.

You're right, he did.

Edit:
No he didn't. Read the OP again. It caught me out, too.

I've just been reading about the use of chlorine dioxide in public supplies, especially when the water purity can be a bit suspect. No idea about the water quality of the O P, however, not whether it's removed with metabilsulphite.
The OP's idea of using bottled water, to see if it makes a difference is a good one. Best to choose a water with a low mineral content than a high one, though.

 

[An Ankoù]

I add metabisulfate putassium powder to my RO

Can you clarify what, exactly, you are adding to your water. Perhaps sending a photo of the tub.
We use metabisulfite not ....sulfate to remove chlorine. The latter is also known as sodium or potassium dithionate and is not the same thing at all.

 

[Ali01]

You're right, he did.

Edit:
No he didn't. Read the OP again. It caught me out, too.

I've just been reading about the use of chlorine dioxide in public supplies, especially when the water purity can be a bit suspect. No idea about the water quality of the O P, however, not whether it's removed with metabilsulphite.
The OP's idea of using bottled water, to see if it makes a difference is a good one. Best to choose a water with a low mineral content than a high one, though.

I bought a 15 liters of deionized 3 stage distilled water to experiment with, if that works, then that metabisulphite powder of me is fake

 

[Ali01]

O

Can you clarify what, exactly, you are adding to your water. Perhaps sending a photo of the tub.
We use metabisulfite not ....sulfate to remove chlorine. The latter is also known as sodium or potassium dithionate and is not the same thing at all.

I know, the store said it was metabisulfate putassium powder, it's a white powder

 

[An Ankoù]

O

I know, the store said it was metabisulfate putassium powder, it's a white powder

MetabisulfIte is not the same as metabsulfAte. The stuff you need is also known as Campden powder and it often comes in the form of tablets.
As for the powder the store sold you, try sniffing it CAUTIOUSLY. It should have a sharp, choking odour unless it's very dry. If no smell, try dissolving a teaspoonful in a half a cup of cold water and add a bit of lemon juice or any other acid. If you don;t get the sharp, choking smell, it's not metabisulfite. You could also go back to the store and explain the situation and ask him to show you the label of the stuff he sold you. (probably best not to mention brewing. Aren't they a bit funny about that in Iran?)

It's worth persisting as it's a really cheap and effective fix. Any of the first 3 products, here, will remove the chlorine:

Of course if you get the same problem with the de-ionised water, then we'll need to look elsewhere for a solution.

 

[DuncB]

My pot of Metabisulphite I only have to open and then wave my hand over the top in my general direction and it's noxious for sure.

I notice that you say in your first post that you use RO water, so chlorine or chloramine won't be an issue.

You do say that the " it tasted fine before bottling, fruity, sweet,"

This could be oxidation already starting, do you open ferment and when do you transfer or know when to transfer to bottles.

Could you give us an indication of your ingredients, recipe and a little more about the ferment process please.

What would be your final gravity reading?

How do you sanitise your equipment and bottling gear?

 

[Ali01]

O

I know, the store said it was metabisulfate putassium powder

My pot of Metabisulphite I only have to open and then wave my hand over the top in my general direction and it's noxious for sure.

I notice that you say in your first post that you use RO water, so chlorine or chloramine won't be an issue.

You do say that the " it tasted fine before bottling, fruity, sweet,"

This could be oxidation already starting, do you open ferment and when do you transfer or know when to transfer to bottles.

Could you give us an indication of your ingredients, recipe and a little more about the ferment process please.

What would be your final gravity reading?

How do you sanitise your equipment and bottling gear?

Now I'm thinking the off flavor might've been there all along cause I've heard that carbonation intensifies flavor
I'm brewing a new one using distilled water and salts today, it's a small 8.5L batch for experiment

 

[Ali01]

Just one more thing, do I need to let the starter finish before adding it to the wort? Or can I just add it after one day of going, sacrificing more yeast cells to be produced

 

[An Ankoù]

Just one more thing, do I need to let the starter finish before adding it to the wort? Or can I just add it after one day of going, sacrificing more yeast cells to be produced

You need to give us more details. You say in post #1 that you use one of three Fermentis dried yeasts. There's no need to make a starter with these yeasts- certainly not in an 8,5 litre batch!.
Tell us how you make your starter.

In any case, just chuck it in.

 

[dmtaylor]

Sorry I'm late...

This problem sounds exactly like chlorophenol, and it makes sense if trying to neutralize chlorine using sulfate instead of sulfite.

Get some new metabisulfite powder or Campden tablets, and see if that fixes the whole problem.

 

[mac_1103]

Where do you get the RO water? As has been said, RO water shouldn't contain any chlorine (because chlorine wrecks RO membranes so RO systems are designed to remove it first). Also sounds like your metabisulfate or sulfite wasn't in a labeled package, so the problem could be sulfate instead of sulfite, or it could be that they sold you cornstarch.

 

[Ali01]

You need to give us more details. You say in post #1 that you use one of three Fermentis dried yeasts. There's no need to make a starter with these yeasts- certainly not in an 8,5 litre batch!.
Tell us how you make your starter.

In any case, just chuck it in.

I made a starter with the harvested yeast from the one of my older batches that was a success, I guess my RO system was better at that time, I think I haven't changed the filters in a long time and that could be the issue with chlorine

 

[IslandLizard]

Just one more thing, do I need to let the starter finish before adding it to the wort? Or can I just add it after one day of going, sacrificing more yeast cells to be produced

How old is that saved slurry?
Been refrigerated all the time?
How much slurry did you put in the starter? Any idea how many cells were in there?
What volume/gravity is the starter, approximately?

A 1-day starter would be considered a "vitality starter" rejuvenating the cells, but not much, if any growth.
It takes 2-3 days to see ample growth. With older or less healthy yeast it may take 3-7 days to get any appreciable amount.

Is this starter on a stir plate at around 20-30°C?

 

[Ali01]

MetabisulfIte is not the same as metabsulfAte. The stuff you need is also known as Campden powder and it often comes in the form of tablets.
As for the powder the store sold you, try sniffing it CAUTIOUSLY. It should have a sharp, choking odour unless it's very dry. If no smell, try dissolving a teaspoonful in a half a cup of cold water and add a bit of lemon juice or any other acid. If you don;t get the sharp, choking smell, it's not metabisulfite. You could also go back to the store and explain the situation and ask him to show you the label of the stuff he sold you. (probably best not to mention brewing. Aren't they a bit funny about that in Iran?)

It's worth persisting as it's a really cheap and effective fix. Any of the first 3 products, here, will remove the chlorine:
View attachment 838154

Of course if you get the same problem with the de-ionised water, then we'll need to look elsewhere for a solution.

Yes it was metabisulfite actually, just a typo, sorry, the label says campden in farsi but it's not commercially packaged, it's a repack, yes they are thanks for the reminder. I buy my equipment from Instagram, there's this valid page with lots of subscribers and it's famous in Iran

 

[bwible]

We all run into this from time to time. Beer tastes good at bottlng, tastes phenolic after 2 weeks in the bottle. I’ve had this ongoing most of last year. Phenolic bottles after a couple weeks, but anything I keg is fine even after months. I haven’t figured it out, but it has to be something in the bottling line. If keg beers are fine then it can’t be siphon cane/tubing either, I’m using the same one.

I’ve cleaned everything with pbw, taken bottle bucket and bottle faucet apart, scrubbed, soaked everything in pbw, then star san, replaced hoses. Been through 3 bottling wands. Boiled sugar, stirred in with sanitized spoon. Sanitized bottle bucket with star san. I’ve soaked bottles in bleach, followed by pbw overnight, scrubbed with bottle brush. visually inspected clean, throw away ones that won’t. I’ve tried star san on some bottles, iodophor on others in an avinator right before filling. I sanitize caps in star san. Same results - kegs good, bottles suck. I’ve even tried priming with dme instead of corn sugar to see if that made a difference. I’m still trying to figure it out.

 

[dmtaylor]

Shoot... I wanted to mention but I forgot until now.... what kind of hoses are you using for transferring wort? Some hoses, as well as some o-rings and gaskets, and certain plastics, will give off phenolic characteristics as well.

 

[Ali01]

Shoot... I wanted to mention but I forgot until now.... what kind of hoses are you using for transferring wort? Some hoses, as well as some o-rings and gaskets, and certain plastics, will give off phenolic characteristics as well.

It's a food grade silicon hose

 

[Ali01]

We all run into this from time to time. Beer tastes good at bottlng, tastes phenolic after 2 weeks in the bottle. I’ve had this ongoing most of last year. Phenolic bottles after a couple weeks, but anything I keg is fine even after months. I haven’t figured it out, but it has to be something in the bottling line. If keg beers are fine then it can’t be siphon cane/tubing either, I’m using the same one.

I’ve cleaned everything with pbw, taken bottle bucket and bottle faucet apart, scrubbed, soaked everything in pbw, then star san, replaced hoses. Been through 3 bottling wands. Boiled sugar, stirred in with sanitized spoon. Sanitized bottle bucket with star san. I’ve soaked bottles in bleach, followed by pbw overnight, scrubbed with bottle brush. visually inspected clean, throw away ones that won’t. I’ve tried star san on some bottles, iodophor on others in an avinator right before filling. I sanitize caps in star san. Same results - kegs good, bottles suck. I’ve even tried priming with dme instead of corn sugar to see if that made a difference. I’m still trying to figure it out.

That's just about my case

 

[Ali01]

Although I believe them off flavors might've been there even before bottling

 

[Ali01]

I pitched s04 at 24c
Didn't check my homemade mini fridge temps until now
I always had trouble keeping the fermentation temp below 21c with this fridge, now it's at 14C! Cause I had made some improvements before pitching, there's very little krausen, because of the low temp? I opened the lid of the fridge a little to ramp up the temp
I'll have less fruitiness with these temps right? The bubbling rate is about one bubble per 8 secs after 35 hours of pitching

 

[hotbeer]

I'll have less fruitiness with these temps right? The bubbling rate is about one bubble per 8 secs after 35 hours of pitching

Which temps, the 21°C or the 14°C? IIRC the higher end of the ideal temp range for S-04 gives more of the fruity notes.

But if it's gone through most of it's fermentation at the higher temperature then I wouldn't begin to have a guess what it might be. All but a few points of your fermentation happens in a day and a half or less. And that is also the time when you will have the most rise in temperature from the yeast activity. After that it usually is very close to the ambient temps of where you keep the FV.

Most of us don't pay any attention to bubbles in the airlock. They really only have entertainment value. The specific gravity is the only really good way to know. Before I had a raptPill and could monitor the beer constantly while in the FV, I usually just waited till the beer was at least two weeks in the FV before even taken a sample to see what it's SG was. If I saw any krausen on the sides at all, I knew if was or had fermented.

I'd also recommend you don't drop your temps too low from where you started for ale yeast. Stability is the key I think. If they go higher than your cooling can control from the yeast activity, then just try to keep it under the max ideal. In about a day or maybe another half day the yeast is going to have most of the fermenting done and the temps will go down on their own to near the ambient. 14°C is a lot lower temp than any ale I've ever fermented. Usually I'm right at 20° and let it coast up higher when it krausen's. But as I said it goes back to near ambient temps on it's own within 18 - 36 hours.

 

[Ali01]

Alright I took a sample today, while it's still fermenting, and this is odd, but the off flavor I explained is there, I know this is very green beer, but I've aged my last 5 batches for at least a month, I have a 2 months old batch with the same off flavor, I ruled out every possiblity by brewing with distilled water, fermenting cold and pitching a lot of yeast, except contamination, but how? So I've had contamination in my last 5 batches? I've tried
By the way, I've never used fining agents, and I can always see the chill haze in the bottles when they're cold even tho I always give my wort a protein rest and leave as much sediments as I can when collecting wort, so maybe I'll cold crash + gelatin it this time and see if that improves the flavor

 

[marc1]

Can you post pictures of your equipment used in the process from brew kettle through packaging? Then we can go through each piece and see what might have been missed.

 

[marc1]

And also ingredients and chemicals, maybe something isn't what it is supposed to be

 

[Ali01]

Can you post pictures of your equipment used in the process from brew kettle through packaging? Then we can go through each piece and see what might have been missed.

Had to leave home again, but I doubt that packaging is an issue here cause I'm yet to bottle and package this batch and the off flavor is there, could it be aluminum? I mash and boil in aluminum pots without oxidizing the layer inside before mashing, but it doesn't taste metallic, it's not malty, it's super fruity, and sometimes impossible to drink

 

[Ali01]

Nah I don't think there problem is with the mash cause I always get good efficiency and I cause the wort always tastes sweet and fine, no metallic flavor

 

[Ali01]

Finally found the culprit: autolysis! The symptoms I read on the internet best describe all my beers, but how?! I fermented cold this time
Around 16 degree c now it's at 24c for cleanup... Maybe the problem is I've never given my beers more than 3 weeks in the FV! Ok I'm so tired of this! Next time I'm just gonna go with voss kveik, maybe that will fix the issue! People say voss can be ready to bottle in a week! With no off flavors, can ferment at room temp

 

[Ali01]

It's yeasty taste I was trying to describe! Maybe it's because I always pitch twice as much yeast as needed? I've never used gelatin, will try and see if that fixes the issue

 

[Tiedye]

I had what I believe to be a similar issue for my first several (15+) batches. Best way I could describe it was medicinal, metallic, or cardboard (based on others description of oxidation). All of my these batches were dumpers. I posted questions here on HBT and saw many of the same recommendations I'm seeing here (including autolysis).

Momma didn't raise no quitter! So I tried...using campden tablets, store bought filtered water, set up a temp controlled fermentation fridge, left beers in secondary for extended periods, stopped using a secondary, deep dive into water chemistry, switched from bottles to kegs, extract, all grain, different yeast strains, light beer, dark beer, lager, ale, even a sour - all had that SAME awful taste. Sometimes faint, sometimes overpowering, sometimes I could smell it - all times undrinkable.

The culprit...infection. With all the time (over a year), gallons of beer, and $$$ dumped down the drain for some reason, even with basically all new equipment I continued to transferred from the boil kettle to my fermenter(s) using an old big plastic funnel I inherited from my Dad's wine making days. Not sure why it never crossed my mine but one day I was in my LHBS and was looking at the funnels and the light bulb went off. I replaced the funnel and...have never had that issue since and have brewed over 100 batches.

Bright side for me was I had spent so much time researching brewing techniques and working through the details of my process (and buying new stuff) that when I finally figured out the issue I was able to go from undrinkable beer to really great beer (my opinion only) pretty quickly.

A great piece of advise I got on HBT that I never took was to enter some of the beer in compition or find a BJCP judge to taste it and give you their assessment. I feel like this would have saved me some serious headaches.

So my three suggestions would be to focus your efforts on making sure everything on the cold side is sanitized, find a qualified taster to provide some feedback based on the beer vs. your description of the beer and DO NOT GIVE UP!

Beer is fun! Good luck!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

old big plastic funnel​

When Josh Weikert (currently writing at CB&B) wrote the Beer:Simple blog, there was an article titled "The Disposable Brewery: When in Doubt, Throw it Out" (Mar 22, 2016).
One of the ideas was to recycle plastic items periodically.

The idea could be modified to use "at first sign of infection", etc.

I won't try to direct link, as the Internet Archives didn't capture the site cleanly. But for those interested, navigate to summary 2016 for this URL:

www(dot)beer-simple(dot)com(slash)brewing​

then user web browser search to find the title.

 

[beren]

Autolysis. Interesting. I have a keg I think of Yuengling that’s the last of the 3 from transferring from a 1/2 bbl keg and it has off flavors. Could be from some chlorine sanitizer but I don’t normally use that. There was a lot of yeast in the first bunch pints which confused me, maybe it autolyzed since it’s been sitting for 4 or 5 months with a lot of yeast.

 

[Ali01]

I had what I believe to be a similar issue for my first several (15+) batches. Best way I could describe it was medicinal, metallic, or cardboard (based on others description of oxidation). All of my these batches were dumpers. I posted questions here on HBT and saw many of the same recommendations I'm seeing here (including autolysis).

Momma didn't raise no quitter! So I tried...using campden tablets, store bought filtered water, set up a temp controlled fermentation fridge, left beers in secondary for extended periods, stopped using a secondary, deep dive into water chemistry, switched from bottles to kegs, extract, all grain, different yeast strains, light beer, dark beer, lager, ale, even a sour - all had that SAME awful taste. Sometimes faint, sometimes overpowering, sometimes I could smell it - all times undrinkable.

The culprit...infection. With all the time (over a year), gallons of beer, and $$$ dumped down the drain for some reason, even with basically all new equipment I continued to transferred from the boil kettle to my fermenter(s) using an old big plastic funnel I inherited from my Dad's wine making days. Not sure why it never crossed my mine but one day I was in my LHBS and was looking at the funnels and the light bulb went off. I replaced the funnel and...have never had that issue since and have brewed over 100 batches.

Bright side for me was I had spent so much time researching brewing techniques and working through the details of my process (and buying new stuff) that when I finally figured out the issue I was able to go from undrinkable beer to really great beer (my opinion only) pretty quickly.

A great piece of advise I got on HBT that I never took was to enter some of the beer in compition or find a BJCP judge to taste it and give you their assessment. I feel like this would have saved me some serious headaches.

So my three suggestions would be to focus your efforts on making sure everything on the cold side is sanitized, find a qualified taster to provide some feedback based on the beer vs. your description of the beer and DO NOT GIVE UP!

Beer is fun! Good luck!

Glad you finally managed to make it work for you, i use starsan for sanitation,ph below 3.5, but i feel in its ineffective in killing the lactobacillus since they are super resistant to acid, i only use a foodgrade silicon hose for my transfers, i have a small water pump i let it run some starsan solution inside the tube for like 30 minutes, next time im gonna use a clean yeast that finishes very fast, voss kveik, and for sanitation, i will use a solution of betadine, the red stuff they use on wounds to prevent infection, i believe they are far more effective than starsan, i will use my own RO water again because the distilled water didnt seem to make any difference

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Occasionally, brewers will report success when switching to a different sanitizer.

As a reminder, if it's not clean, the type of sanitizer (or duration of it's use) doesn't mater.

 

[WouldBeBrewmaster]

Thanks, yes pucker was not the word I was looking for, it's not really that sour, just a tiny bit, that off flavor I don't know how to describe is overpowering everything else, it's bitter and medical tasting, that's the best way I can describe it, I haven't measured that, had to left home again

Sounds like acetaldehyde. Probably caused by contamination. Sanitize anything glass or plastic that touches your beer on the cold side with bleach, then rinse thoroughly with cold water.

If you’re fermenting in stainless, give your fermenter a hot alkaline wash (PBW or similar), then sanitize with NEW no-rinse sanitizer.

Disassemble any valves or spigots. Clean and sanitize those separately.

 

[WesBrew]

Take everything apart and soak it all in bucket of sanitizer as noted above. Cold side tubing might need to be replaced. Aluminum kettle could be an issue particularly in the mash but you said there’s no metallic taste. Best to get stainless if you can.