Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Kent88]

I shared a couple of articles about electric trucks in this thread within the last few months. They look pretty tough, but they look pretty pricey.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Rivian's truck and SUV look pretty good, just horribly expensive:

https://rivian.com/
I know Rivian's been talked about here, but I do like what they're coming up with.

"Across the hottest and coldest places — from 130F to -25F — our battery system has been developed to explore. At launch, the R1T will deliver 300+ miles. In January 2022, a 400+ mile R1T will be available. After launch, we’ll announce the timing for a 250+ mile R1T."

Not too shabby, but the cheapest starting point for the truck is $67,500, and the SUV comes in at $70,000....


I may have overlooked if these guys were mentioned in this thread:

https://lordstownmotors.com/
Not as nice looking as Rivian, but they still look close to a normal-looking vehicle, unlike Tesla's truck . The "fast charge" is 30 minutes however, and max. range seems to be just 250 miles.

Last year, I got to sit in the backseat of a Tesla (Uber ride), and I have to admit, it was pretty damn cool.

 

[Kent88]

Didn't Rivian just announce a charging network they sponsored that includes some really out of the way destinations?

Edit, yes:
Rivian Adventure Network charging stations revealed with higher capacity than expected - Electrek

 

[Barbarossa]

So you wanted a Prius, but it was too expensive so you ended up with a Mustang, that's an interesting turn of events.

Again, value does not equal price. And I had a Edge in between. Loved that car too.

 

[Barbarossa]

Agreed in buying a new Prius. However, buying a used Prius makes a lot of sense. Or hybrid Camry etc.

The salesman even said that the only reason to buy electric is to have a clear conscience about the environment. Nothing practical about it. No money saved. A 10k difference between two cars should come with more comfort or
more performancee. For those, you get less performance and less comfort. But you are "saving" the earth. Or so you've been told. That is sti up for debate. Plus a paid a bunch of money to plant trees. I offset more than enough. Or so I've been told. It's all relative.

 

[Kent88]

Again, value does not equal price.

That's still ambiguous, but you're obviously allowed to choose how you spend your money, using whatever criteria you want, without explaining it or justifying it to me or anyone else here.

 

[Kent88]

The salesman even said that the only reason to buy electric is to have a clear conscience about the environment. Nothing practical about it. No money saved. A 10k difference between two cars should come with more comfort or
more performancee. For those, you get less performance and less comfort. But you are "saving" the earth. Or so you've been told. That is sti up for debate. Plus a paid a bunch of money to plant trees. I offset more than enough. Or so I've been told. It's all relative.

Sounds like a salesman. Wants to sell you what he knows about, and what he is most familiar with.

 

[Bilsch]

The salesman even said that the only reason to buy electric is to have a clear conscience about the environment. Nothing practical about it. No money saved.

Of course the salesman said that since the dealership makes its money off of service. This is exactly why Tesla avoided the dealer sales model. It looks like GM is also trying to shed its dealers for electric models.

 

[Barbarossa]

Of course the salesman said that since the dealership makes its money off of service. This is exactly why Tesla avoided the dealer sales model. It looks like GM is also trying to shed its dealers for electric models.

Do you actually think that you are saving money? Because thinking like that, taking the bus saves you money.

You need to compare the price of your car with a similar car. And I guarantee you that you paid at least 10k more for equivalent.

 

[Kent88]

Nobody is looking for confrontation here.

 

[Kent88]

Do you actually think that you are saving money? Because thinking like that, taking the bus saves you money.

You need to compare the price of your car with a similar car. And I guarantee you that you paid at least 10k more for equivalent.

IMHO, that makes sense until you get into sports cars and luxury cars. When my grandpa bought his fancy (well, in my family's opinion it was fancy) Monte Carlo back in the early aughts, he was looking to buy a car that would make him feel good.

Bilsch has been around here for a while, and despite what he has said I'm still skeptical that a Tesla is as affordable of a vehicle as I believe he suggests. But I bet part of what he wanted was the prestige of owning a Tesla, just like my grandfather wanted the prestige of owning a Monte Carlo.

One thing Bilsch has brought up that makes sense is the Total Cost of Ownership of his Tesla, and it sounds like it's lower than I expected.

An analogy that comes to mind is buying a house with garbage insulation. It may have a cheap cost up front, but over the life of that house, unless a significant upgrade is made to the insulation, it's going to cost a lot to heat it in the winter. Buying a house with good insulation is probably more expensive up front, all else being equal, but it's cheaper to heat.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

So.... how many different brands of charging stations are out there now?
- Tesla
- Nissan's
- Ford/VW
- GM
- and now Rivian???

 

[Kent88]

So.... how many different brands of charging stations are out there now?
- Tesla
- Nissan's
- Ford/VW
- GM
- and now Rivian???

Not sure what you mean. If I use cell phone chargers as an example, to me it seems like most people are using some variety of USB, whether it's C or mini-A/B. Tesla is like Apple where they're kind of doing their own thing.

 

[bracconiere]

 

[Kent88]

Gosh, bracc, I'd think that you could afford better with the allowance that you get from the marshalls.

 

[Bilsch]

Do you actually think that you are saving money? Because thinking like that, taking the bus saves you money. You need to compare the price of your car with a similar car. And I guarantee you that you paid at least 10k more for equivalent.

Yes EV's cost more to purchase however they cost 1/2 to 1/5 the price to fuel with a fraction of the maintenance. Therefore depending on the model and extras there is a certain number of years or miles need to drive to reach parity in cost to ICE and then from there it's money in your pocket. How long that payoff is has many factors is the largest being the variable price of electricity so it's hard to generalize. The most recent studies I read said between 5 and 8 years, but in my case it will be sooner since I have solar and also qualified for the $7500 tax credit which took a large chunk out of the cost. Other factors to consider are depreciation as EV's hold their value better and if your utility offers a time of use discount which can improve the savings drastically.

So yes, I know that over the lifetime of my car I will save money even though it cost more to buy. Furthermore it is estimated that by 2023 the purchase price of BEV and ICE vehicles will reach parity and then things will get truly interesting.

Anyone interested in this topic should take the time to read this very in depth study done by consumer reports on lifetime cost analysis between BEV and ICE.
https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/EV-Ownership-Cost-Final-Report-1.pdf

 

[Bilsch]

Bilsch has been around here for a while, and despite what he has said I'm still skeptical that a Tesla is as affordable of a vehicle as I believe he suggests. But I bet part of what he wanted was the prestige of owning a Tesla, just like my grandfather wanted the prestige of owning a Monte Carlo.

Actually what I wanted was the autopilot, bigger battery, active pack cooling and the supercharger network. Other EV's are excellent choices for around town daily use, only needing to charge at night in the garage. But Tesla, so far, is the only EV able to road trip it almost anywhere (20,000 fast charging stations) without sitting waiting for slow charging or batteries to cool before doing so. Also when I bought they threw in lifetime supercharging so I'm tripping for free. Yay!

 

[Barbarossa]

Yes EV's cost more to purchase however they cost 1/2 to 1/5 the price to fuel with a fraction of the maintenance. Therefore depending on the model and extras there is a certain number of years or miles need to drive to reach parity in cost to ICE and then from there it's money in your pocket. How long that payoff is has many factors is the largest being the variable price of electricity so it's hard to generalize. The most recent studies I read said between 5 and 8 years, but in my case it will be sooner since I have solar and also qualified for the $7500 tax credit which took a large chunk out of the cost. Other factors to consider are depreciation as EV's hold their value better and if your utility offers a time of use discount which can improve the savings drastically.

So yes, I know that over the lifetime of my car I will save money even though it cost more to buy. Furthermore it is estimated that by 2023 the purchase price of BEV and ICE vehicles will reach parity and then things will get truly interesting.

Anyone interested in this topic should take the time to read this very in depth study done by consumer reports on lifetime cost analysis between BEV and ICE.
https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/EV-Ownership-Cost-Final-Report-1.pdf

How much did you pay for your homeplug? Got a colleague who got quoted 12k.

And in your report, they made a faulty comparison. They analyse the price saving up until you need a new battery, which cost as much as a new small car. So yeah. Until you need a battery, you save money.

 

[Kent88]

You keep talking about battery replacement. That is a big topic in itself.

There are some cars that seem to have batteries that do need to be replaced frequently enough that I'd almost call often, like a Nissan Leaf. But batteries like those that come in Tesla and GM are pretty durable. There is a variety in the world of EV batteries.

Then you consider how batteries handle certain environments, how they hold up over time, and how they hold up over time and a certain amount of use.

Then you have to consider the owner's expectations. From what I've heard and read about batteries in GM vehicles, and for the duration that I expect to own my car before I trade it, I shouldn't (no guarentee, but it seems like people who use it similar to the way I do, they don't have to replace their batteries yet) have to replace my high-voltage battery.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

How much did you pay for your homeplug? Got a colleague who got quoted 12k.

And in your report, they made a faulty comparison. They analyse the price saving up until you need a new battery, which cost as much as a new small car. So yeah. Until you need a battery, you save money.

No offense intended, but it sounds like you're following the bulk of the standard FUD on EVs. I'm not someone who is pro-EV or anti-EV... I think some of the pro-EV folks are looking at everything through rose-colored glasses. But what you're saying doesn't make a whole lot of actual sense.

First, typical prices for a Level 2 charger installation in your home are around $1K. Maybe your colleague who got quoted much higher didn't have the capacity in his electrical panel or his service to his home to do it, and would have needed major changes. But that's an outlier, not typical.

Second, although first-gen Nissan Leaf have a bad rap on battery, there is to date no real evidence that mainstream BEV have terrible battery degradation as a general rule. Tesla battery degradation at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles, according to latest data - Electrek

Third, in a previous post you said that a Prius was $10K more than a comparable Civic. Maybe that was true at the time you looked at the Prius--but you've said that you had an Edge and now a Mustang since then, so that was probably a few years ago. I posted that current pricing has the Prius sedan at only $3K higher than a Civic sedan. That, given about a 1.7x gas mileage, is a much smaller amount of time/mileage to recoup that extra cost. You did not acknowledge my post that the Prius isn't $10K higher currently, yet 52 minutes after I posted doubled down and again repeated the $10K number.

I don't get the sense that you're arguing in good faith here...

 

[Kent88]

I think some of the pro-EV folks are looking at everything through rose-colored glasses.

It's a difficult line to walk. Trying not to let great get in the way of good, but wondering how the tech will depreciate while big leaps in EVs are made each year.

Hence why I bought gently used.

 

[Kent88]

Second, although first-gen Nissan Leaf have a bad rap on battery, there is to date no real evidence that mainstream BEV have terrible battery degradation as a general rule. Tesla battery degradation at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles, according to latest data - Electrek

I need to review what has been happening with the Leaf.

 

[passedpawn]

I love the teslas. ONLY because they are stealthy and quick. And the large screen in the middle. Battery doesn't really interest me, and frankly seems like a problem. But stealthy, oh yea.

But I now must have Ram Longhorn, 10th anniv addition. OMG. This fall, it will happen. Mucho gas, but I don't drive much. I'm born in Texas, and I must have the truck. Thanks for listening.

 

[Kent88]

My father in law is a big time ram truck fan. He actually doesn't drive much anymore due to poor eyesight, but he has his truck so he can pull the boat. I foresee our nephew getting really good at driving his truck with the boat before he goes to college.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I love the teslas. ONLY because they are stealthy and quick. And the large screen in the middle. Battery doesn't really interest me, and frankly seems like a problem. But stealthy, oh yea.

IMHO touchscreens are profoundly stupid in automobiles.

If you have a tactile button, or switch, or dial, etc, you can usually use it without taking your eyes off the road.

In order to engage with a touchscreen, by definition you have to look away from the road to see what you're pressing or not pressing.

Touchscreens may lower prices for the automakers, and allow for greater configurability because their controls are software-defined.

But I don't think they improve on-road safety.

 

[passedpawn]

IMHO touchscreens are profoundly stupid in automobiles.

OK. I'll bet you're the only person to never tap your phone screen while driving. I wish I was that virtuous, but I'm not.

I do prefer a dial for volume. That's ALWAYS available on the steering wheel. But if you're navigating pandora/spotify/podcasts/etc, it's far easier to tap the screen. I don't read texts etc while driving, but I do use the various features that carplay offers, and Imma here to tell you that touchscreen is faster than some sort of wheel that sorts through the various options. All of it requires eyes on a screen.

 

[Kent88]

Some things definitely make sense to have buttons and dials for. To go completely to touch screen sounds like a bad idea.

My Jeep locks me out of certain touchscreen things when the vehicle isn't in park. I like the idea in theory, but in practice it can be rather frustrating.

 

[Bilsch]

How much did you pay for your homeplug? Got a colleague who got quoted 12k.

And in your report, they made a faulty comparison. They analyse the price saving up until you need a new battery, which cost as much as a new small car. So yeah. Until you need a battery, you save money.

It’s included with the car and will do a full 260 mile charge overnight. It plugs into a nema 14-50 outlet which I put I’m myself for less than a Benjamin. If I need faster then it’s off to the supercharger.

Current Tesla battery chemistry is rated for a half a million miles so I seriously doubt I’ll need a new one. Next battery version due out this year will be good for a million miles.

 

[Bilsch]

IMHO touchscreens are profoundly stupid in automobiles.

If you have a tactile button, or switch, or dial, etc, you can usually use it without taking your eyes off the road.

Remember though that Tesla’s were designed with autonomous driving in mind. Also if you need to take your eyes off the road for a moment you simply turn on the autopilot. Since the car looks in every direction with both vision and radar and is never distracted.. it is safer then a human.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

OK. I'll bet you're the only person to never tap your phone screen while driving. I wish I was that virtuous, but I'm not.

I do prefer a dial for volume. That's ALWAYS available on the steering wheel. But if you're navigating pandora/spotify/podcasts/etc, it's far easier to tap the screen. I don't read texts etc while driving, but I do use the various features that carplay offers, and Imma here to tell you that touchscreen is faster than some sort of wheel that sorts through the various options. All of it requires eyes on a screen.

I actually do make a very significant effort to never touch my phone screen while driving. At stop lights, yes. But I put it down as soon as my foot comes off the brake pedal.......... Most of the time. I'm certainly not perfect.

I recognize cars have so many features and so much "infotainment" now that you can't have a button/switch/dial for everything. But I do honestly believe that the more controls you have available by feel rather than by sight, the safer.

Remember though that Tesla’s were designed with autonomous driving in mind. Also if you need to take your eyes off the road for a moment you simply turn on the autopilot. Since the car looks in every direction with both vision and radar and is never distracted.. it is safer then a human.

Tesla's getting there, but I don't consider a car autonomous or self-driving until it's Level 5 -- or at least Level 4 and it disables itself if it can't make a decision. As in I can be passed out drunk in the "driver's" seat and have no legal ramifications from the police for the car driving me home on its own.

Even Tesla says you should always be alert and ready to take over for the car at all times, right?