Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

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Do you have an electric car or plan to get one?

  • Yes

  • No

  • I plan to

  • Over my dead body


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Bilsch

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Tesla keeps CLAIMING they are going to be vertically integrated in battery technology, but they're still purchasing from Panasonic. And Tesla's MO is claiming things that may or may not ever happen, so I don't trust anything they say they'll do until they actually prove it.
The Panasonic Tesla deal is a partnership, those cells are proprietary to Tesla, made in Gigafactory 1 in Nevada and not sold to any other company.
Could we not say that is somewhat vertically integrated?

Besides that there is the Roadrunner pilot 4680 cell plant in Fremont already working which is 100% Tesla owned with an expansion to that facility already in the works. See the 4680's being made in this clip.

Musk and Company are currently building the Berlin and Texas battery sites so IMO it's easy to see who is actually moving forward and who is just talking about it.
 

betarhoalphadelta

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A partnership and a supply agreement are not vertical integration.

I guarantee that they're not getting those batteries at cost from Panasonic; Panasonic is earning profit. I guarantee they're not given free right to produce the batteries in their own plants; they're likely paying some sort of a license fee to build Panasonic's product.

I believe that Tesla desperately wants to achieve vertical integration, and it's quite obvious why they want that. But they're not there today.
 

Bilsch

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Even when the 4680 is ramped up Tesla will never make all their own batteries since the demand will exceed several manufacturers ability to supply.
 

Kent88

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Kind of off topic, does anyone know about fishing boats with electric outboard motors (not trolling motors)?

I assume I'll own a fishing boat someday. I should probably start figuring this out.
 

Brooothru

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There's a company in Groton, CT, that's been making electric boats for quite some time. In fact, their name is Electric Boat Company. It may not be exactly what you're looking for however, and I think the U.S. Navy has most of their production inventory tied up for the near term at least. Plus the boats spend most of their time underwater. And you'd probably need an advanced degree in nuclear engineering to operate one without meltdown of the fuel core, so there's that. 🚢
 

Kent88

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🤦‍♂️

I thought I covered my bases when I specified that I wasn't talking about trolling motors.

Not sure what kind of fishing you think I'm doing.
 

Bilsch

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Yeah, in a past life I "trolled" for some like that. Quite elusive, but every now and then you can hook one.
Did your fishing gear by chance look something like this?


MAD.jpg
 

bushpilot

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I have a 2013 Chevy Volt, and it is the best car I have ever owned. With most of my driving done with the electrics, I have averaged 140+ mpg. Additionally, it is just a nice car.
 

Bilsch

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Where does anyone get them?
Anyone gets them by planning WAY ahead, making partnerships with big battery manufacturers, funding Dahn to research the subject, designing your own better batteries and then building out a lot of space to make them. Then when you still don't have enough, buy the available production of CATL and LG.

Alternatively if one has spent the last ten years continuing to build ICE whilst denying EV's are coming.. then you are really far behind and sorta screwed.
 

Kent88

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Saw an ad for Jeep 4xe today that was getting a lot of grief. I hadn't checked out their website lately so I popped over, and I thought this was neat



I question if the panels are big enough and whether it has built in storage for cloudy days and nighttime, but I definitely don't hate it.
 

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My kid is turning 16 next year and I’m thinking about passing my ‘09 Prius down to her.

I’m considering an EV but it’s contending with the midlife crisis convertibles I’d like to buy.
 

Saunassa

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Two reasons not planning too at this time. One is they need to come up with a good way to recycle batteries. Second is they need to prove to me that when it is -40 f/c in northern Minnesota that I can drive it 150 miles and keep me warm and windshield clear of frost without having to charge it up.
 

Kent88

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they need to prove to me that when it is -40 f/c in northern Minnesota that I can drive it 150 miles and keep me warm and windshield clear of frost without having to charge it up.
You must be way up by the boundary waters or Canada. I'm (probably) not far south east of you and if the current gen Bolt handles the cold as well as my Volt, I'd expect that they can go 200 miles on a full charge for the bulk of the winter in my part of the world.

Usually when it gets that far below zero we don't travel as far if we can help it. You must have a longer commute.
 

Saunassa

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It all depends on where we do our grocery shopping. If we go to Duluth, Brainerd or Grand rapids to change things up. If I have to go to office then it is a 140 miles one way but I don't do that unless it is -20f or warmer.
 

Kent88

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It all depends on where we do our grocery shopping. If we go to Duluth, Brainerd or Grand rapids to change things up. If I have to go to office then it is a 140 miles one way but I don't do that unless it is -20f or warmer.
You do have a commute.

I visited an old friend in Duluth a few weeks ago. He said that Duluth needs more public fast chargers. PlugShare suggests that such chargers are available in the area, though (155?).

Not much in Grand Rapids yet, by the look of it.
 

Bilsch

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Two reasons not planning too at this time. One is they need to come up with a good way to recycle batteries.
This recycling thing keeps getting thrown around by the petro industry as if drilling for, refining, shipping and burning oil is somehow not polluting.

Anyway the battery recycling thing has been solved and there are companies currently doing this with more on the way. The biggest trick was how to dissemble energy containing devices without a fire. The solution was to freeze the scrap, grind it up then leach out the valuable elements. The materials recovered are then ready to go into new batteries and it's less expensive then mining for new.
 

Beernik

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30 miles on a charge isn’t enough. Doesn’t get me halfway to work.

I could rationalize 50 mile range as only requiring 1 gallons of gas each way.
 

Bilsch

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30 miles on a charge isn’t enough. Doesn’t get me halfway to work.
I could rationalize 50 mile range as only requiring 1 gallons of gas each way.
Oh you were talking about the Jeeps as opposed to EV's in general.
My mistake. Yes that is pretty pathetic range.
 

Kent88

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Oh you were talking about the Jeeps as opposed to EV's in general.
My mistake. Yes that is pretty pathetic range.
My Volt has the minimum range I'd take for any PHEV. My wife drives 35(ish) miles round trip to get to/from work, and in the winter the Volt gets 40 miles on electric from a full charge.

She drives the gas Jeep in the winter because she feels better with 4wd in the snow. Someday it would be nice to have a PHEV or BEV Jeep, but these that can hardly crack 30 miles in good conditions, I'm not terribly excited about them. If her workplace would put in a charger, even a slow charger, I might have a different attitude.

Then factor in that the range extender on these 4xe Jeeps is around 20mpg (at least for the wrangler, if I'm not mistaken).

I like the direction Jeep is going, and my current Jeep should last me a while. Hopefully they figure it out before my next trade.
 

Saunassa

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Kind of off topic, does anyone know about fishing boats with electric outboard motors (not trolling motors)?

I assume I'll own a fishing boat someday. I should probably start figuring this out.
On another recreational use of electric. Production electric snowmobiles are being made. The Taiga models look cool and acceleration - which is part of the thrill of riding - is amazing. It would be cool to go quietly through the woods. might have to add a horn to honk at people when you pass them :)
 
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Kent88

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On another recreational use of electric. Production electric snowmobiles are being made. The Taiga models look cool and acceleration - which is part of the thrill of riding - is amazing. It would be cool to go quietly through the woods. might have to add a horn to honk at people when you pass them :)
I'm not sure I shared here, but I definitely saw a couple negative articles about electric snowmobiles this past winter.

I think EV snowmobiles make a lot of sense. A big complaint I've heard from snowmobile owners is how much time/money they spend maintaining them. Hopefully electric units wouldn't be as big of a pain to maintain. It also seems like owners are always talking about how they have to drive them on a trailer to optimal trails, so hopefully range isn't a huge problem.

Never having ridden a snowmobile, I don't really know what drawbacks a casual snowmobiler would deal with. I assume range needs to improve because electric snowmobiles are so new, but that's about it.
 
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