Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[day_trippr]

I'm already considering only filling it a few gallons at a time.

fwiw, the potential for condensation favors keeping a gas tank more full than empty...

Cheers!

 

[Kent88]

My Volt was supposed to burn gas if it felt like it had been full too long, but I never noticed it do that. I usually put in the premium gas in spring/summer and regular in the winter when it would burn gas just to warm everything up.

Not sure what the Rav does.

 

[sibelman]

Toyota for reliability.

I would agree, but for the nasty surprise when their latest EV shipped. Almost immediately, all the brand new bZ4X's were recalled because the lug nuts spontaneously loosened. Embarrassing AF.

 

[Thorrak]

How so? EV sales as percentage of overall market has risen every single quarter for over 2 years.

Inventory caught up to demand, maybe even surpassed it. This happens to every product at some point, especially new ones that are being figured out.

I have no clue why that poster thinks that Buick is indicative of anything. We’ve seen many brands put out inferior evs. Unfortunately, Tesla can’t build them all.

l didn’t even know Buick makes one.

I think that right there is the concern — manufacturers turned out more EVs than there was demand for, leading to prior-model-year vehicles sitting on lots waiting to be discounted. Bundle this with the fact that the pace of change for most non-Tesla manufacturers is breakneck, and you get massive leaps in functionality between model years that dealers don’t want to accept the risk of.

I can say that I am the target market for non-Tesla EVs right now, and I’m unwilling to consider any of them due to the upcoming change to NACS (and the uncertainty about what this will ultimately mean as regards to fast charger availability)

Speaking of EV repair costs, looking at the "gigacasting" concept used by Tesla to form huge portions of their vehicle chassis, I can't imagine what the repair costs might be if a collision breaks the casting...or if it's even possible to repair that kind of damage...

It’s only one data point and doesn’t involve the casted parts, but we were rear ended when we first got our Model Y, and the repair cost was almost $15k due to the construction of the rear lift gate/bumper.

 

[mac_1103]

I think that right there is the concern — manufacturers turned out more EVs than there was demand for, leading to prior-model-year vehicles sitting on lots waiting to be discounted.

Not much evidence of this in terms of product availability or discounted pricing. At least not in my local market.

 

[Kent88]

I was actually a bit concerned after all the NACS news came through, but there has also been news that an adapter for CCS vehicles to use NACS is likely on the way next year.

When I was looking at charging infrastructure around my routes I disregarded the Tesla chargers entirely, and I still have enough that I'm comfortable driving around.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

GM Forced the issue on huge investments on the Buick dealerships.
Audi is cutting their EV outlook.
Prices slashing.
Ford lost tons of money on EVs in 2023.
EVs sell terribly on the used market.
But it's me! Trust me!

 

[tracer bullet]

But it's me! Trust me!

You've stated facts, and when you do that, no one will disagree with them.

But when you're making the leap to EV's suck, they should be abolished, and anyone owning one is a doofus, that's when you'll run into problems. True or not that's sort of how you started, I think, and that's how a lot of people jump into this thread. And of course that extreme view is also rubbish.

If your thought is that this thread is full of people worshipping EV's, thinking they are perfect, will save the world, and have no downsides at all, then - well, you've completely misunderstood.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

The Market says otherwise.

There is very little good news with EVs.

https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/porsche-ev-sales-target-falling-taycan-sales/
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-wes...-more-than-any-other-vehicle-type--study-says
https://www.automotivedive.com/news/gm-evs-abandons-plan-build-400000-mid-2024/697670/
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ws-2023-forecast-warns-ev-results-2023-10-26/
https://www.theautopian.com/ford-lo...ehicle-sold-last-quarter-so-was-toyota-right/

 

[Kent88]

Prices slashing.

Good grief, all kinds of grief when automakers increase EV prices a couple months after announcing them, like when the Lightning got more expensive. Now it's a problem when supply chains improve, competition increases, and prices can come down. There's no pleasing some people. They announce a price and are just supposed to stay locked in?

Ford lost tons of money on EVs in 2023.

I actually linked to the Ford CEO talking about this some time ago. The view of the company is that, once people buy a BEV, they don't go back to an ICE vehicle. Ford wants to sell you an EV now, so they can sell you more EVs later.

EVs sell terribly on the used market.

According to?

But it's me! Trust me!

Actually, it does seem that way.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/08/fal...icles,EV adoption among mainstream consumers.||


https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/2...ars-not-selling-well-good-takes-vs-bad-takes/

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/2...ars-not-selling-well-good-takes-vs-bad-takes/
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-wes...s to depreciation,its value after five years.

 

[Airborneguy]

A reoccurring nightmare of mine is having to drive a gas car regularly ever again.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

I bet if you drive my 2014 Civic SI, you might really like it. Come on over!

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

Good grief, all kinds of grief when automakers increase EV prices a couple months after announcing them, like when the Lightning got more expensive. Now it's a problem when supply chains improve, competition increases, and prices can come down. There's no pleasing some people. They announce a price and are just supposed to stay locked in?

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/26/new...ost 30% between,have the largest price drops.The issue with EVs is the whole recipe is financial disaster. The companies lose money, the used market underperforms and they sell fewer units than in recent past.

 

[Airborneguy]

I bet if you drive my 2014 Civic SI, you might really like it. Come on over!

I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Nothing besides a Plaid upgrade will excite me forevermore.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

Ah, don't be so jaded

My car has been called the best handling front wheel drive on the market. I can't beat big cars on the highway or straightawys, but in corners and windy roads, it's awesome..

 

[Thorrak]

As I said, as an owner of a Model Y, we saw the used vehicle price rise for the past few years before supply started to catch up to demand. It’s fallen sharply in the past 12 months or so, but still is worth about what I would expect for its age.

Non-Tesla EVs though — I wouldn’t touch a used Volt/id3/EV Porsche at the moment due mainly to the lack of clarity today around NACS adoption. If I can wait, get a new model, and have the same seamless access to Tesla-branded superchargers that Teslas do, that’s enough to cut the value to me of existing stock substantially.

For non-Tesla automakers what you’re seeing is the first gen product. Until they get some iterations under their belt there really is no comparison.

 

[Airborneguy]

I had a Miata in 2014. Most fun car I’ve ever owned. I can’t see a front-wheel drive ever topping that. It’s the only gas car I’d ever consider again, and only to electrify it.

 

[Kent88]

Non-Tesla EVs though — I wouldn’t touch a used Volt/id3/EV Porsche at the moment due mainly to the lack of clarity today around NACS adoption.

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure there are already NACS to CCS adaptors that work for NACS supply equipment equivalent to level 2 charging and lower (not superchargers, I think they are called "destination chargers"?).

As for superchargers


I take this to mean that they're on the horizon.

 

[Airborneguy]

Level 2, but not superchargers yet.

 

[Kent88]

Yet

 

[Airborneguy]

My cousin bought a Mercedes ev a few months ago. The dealer told him the adapter and app for Superchargers should be available by the end of the 1st quarter.

When the superchargers open up, that’s when we will know how wide the market for evs truly is. Everyone who isn’t adamantly politically opposed to them knows that Tesla superchargers are the true “gas stations” of EVs because they are the only reliable and prolific network.

As has been said here, a lot of people are waiting for two factors: rates to drop and superchargers to be universal. It’s game over then.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q3-2023-ev-sales/

Total EV sales in Q3, according to an estimate from Kelley Blue Book, hit 313,086, a 49.8% increase from the same period one year ago and an increase from the 298,039 sold in Q2. Most automakers posted sizeable gains over 2022, with Volvo, Nissan, Mercedes and Hyundai delivering increases above 200%, thanks mostly to new products entering the market. In Q3, 14 new EV models that did not exist one year ago were in the mix, including Chevrolet Blazer and Silverado EVs. (The new Chevy EVs had very low sales – just an initial few to mark a Q3 launch). The EV market is transforming, to be sure.

Electric vehicle sales accounted for 7.9% of total industry sales in Q3, a record and up from 6.1% a year ago and 7.2% in Q2. As Cox Automotive has been reporting, higher inventory levels, more product availability, and downward pricing pressure have helped spur continued linear growth of EV sales in the U.S. market. EV sales have now increased for 13 straight quarters.

The issue with EVs is not demand. Demand is growing. The issue is that manufacturers all flooded the market with new models at the same time expecting EVEN higher growth, and that current supply exceeds current demand at financially sustainable prices.

As I've talked about, I come from the data storage industry. We see this in my industry. There is no such thing as oversupply; there is only oversupply at financially sustainable pricing. It's particularly a problem in the NAND side of the industry. NAND capital investments are planned based on a market projection 5+ years into the future, because building NAND fabs, retrofitting existing fabs with modern equipment, etc, takes a long time and costs billions of dollars. If you skate to the puck, it'll never be there when you get to your destination. You have to skate to where the puck will be. But all your competitors are doing the same thing... So every once in a while, you all skate to where the puck will be, all arrive at the same time, and then you're in oversupply and prices crater. (We're there right now and starting to come out of it.)

Every legacy automaker looked at the market and asked themselves "when do we need to enter the BEV market?" For every one of them, it was a multi-year process standing up R&D, engineering, development, validation/reliability testing, new supply chain partners, new production lines/techniques (and possibly plants), etc. And they all arrived at the puck at the same time.

That's not a demand problem.

 

[sibelman]

There is very little good news with EVs.

Well, there's some good news.

Of course, you may not see it as good news that Americans bought more EVs in 2023 than in any previous year. Eye of the beholder / one man's poison, I suppose.

Too, there's now a wider selection than ever - still not enough at the low/small end of the market, but more to come. I'm mildly excited by the upcoming Volvo EX30.

 

[mac_1103]

I just wish I was seeing all of this market flooding and price crashing where I live. I'd have bought three or four by now.

I'm mildly excited by the upcoming Volvo EX30.

That sounds like the BEV of SWMBO's dreams. Might be worth waiting for.

 

[sibelman]

That sounds like the BEV of SWMBO's dreams. Might be worth waiting for.

Might be worth waiting for the second model year, after early bugs are killed.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Might be worth waiting for the second model year, after early bugs are killed.

IMHO that's true for me for any car, BEV or ICEV. (Granted, I typically buy used cars so I also have a few years of reputational reliability for each model too.)

For EVs, I don't want to buy one from any vendor that has been <5 years in the BEV game, though. I think there's a significant technology learning curve involved and I want to have some trust that they've weathered it successfully rather than take a chance with that significant of a purchase.

 

[Airborneguy]

That’s why I haven’t bought a Rivian yet.

 

[sibelman]

fwiw, I counted 45 BEVs on the ~25mi. round trip I just made to LHBS. 2/3 were Teslas.