PicoBrew Pico users

[Lbarouf]

About the Tilt. I don't have an iOS or Android device lying around to collect the info. But I do have Raspberry Pis. Anyone knows if it's possible to pair the Tilt to a Pi and have it collect the info and upload it to the cloud for you?

 

[Denny]

Yeah, the S 34/70 is in the packs for the boldariaan. I will try those soon. If the results are good, I may try my first freestyle packs with that in mind.

How did the back and forth with Pico went for you Denny? I was thinking about creating the packs using a Z. I just find the ingredient list a little short. If I make a recipe on the Z, it does not translate 1:1 into packs. For instance, I may use WL001. Replacing it with S34/70 may not give best results. How was it to deal with if I may ask, and if you may say.

Truthfully, I just pointed Annie to the version of the recipe for the Z in my account and she took it form there. Then we tweaked it a little after a couple trials. They're really great people. I think 34/70 may end up being a good choice, so I'm gonna experiment with that.

 

[jrb03]

About the Tilt. I don't have an iOS or Android device lying around to collect the info. But I do have Raspberry Pis. Anyone knows if it's possible to pair the Tilt to a Pi and have it collect the info and upload it to the cloud for you?

Yes I have seen that a Pi interface is out there but haven't paid it much attention. Do some googling and you will find the info.

The constant monitoring is nice for the pretty graphs, but not necessary. You can use your phone to check in on it every now and then and get a less populated chart.

 

[pagrider]

So you guys think that s05 is the problem with your beer? That strand has been around for many years and award winning beer has been made using it. I use it all the time and find at higher temps, mostly above 70 degrees, it wont clean up as well. If you over pitch at high temp than you are creating even more issues.

http://byo.com/hops/item/1519-top-10-steps-to-better-beer

this may be helpful

 

[jrb03]

So you guys think that s05 is the problem with your beer? That strand has been around for many years and award winning beer has been made using it. I use it all the time and find at higher temps, mostly above 70 degrees, it wont clean up as well. If you over pitch at high temp than you are creating even more issues.

http://byo.com/hops/item/1519-top-10-steps-to-better-beer

this may be helpful

Nope not helpful at all, thanks for trying to teach some very experienced brewers though. Very well aware of what 05 is, and how to properly ferment and pitch yeast. Wow your right, 05 really sucks when over pitched! Just kinda sucks when pitched properly.

Just because this is a Pico thread doesn't mean we are all noobies. Thanks for trying to help though.

 

[pagrider]

Ok your right. A pack of liquid yeast to pitch in one gallon of beer makes total sense. carry on.

 

[jrb03]

Actually half a pack in 1.5 gallons and yup works great and makes total sense. If you like the cheaper crappy yeast carry on and move on. It's pretty obvious you don't own a Pico.

 

[bford]

It would be awesome if they could price in and include the liquid yeast, but I know shipping kills that idea... unless you could always ship during a really cold winter!

 

[bobbob911]

What are some yeasts that are known to perform well at higher temps (70-74), with high flocculation? I think these two characteristics would be desirable for most Pico brewers who are typically fermenting at room temp.

 

[jrb03]

What are some yeasts that are known to perform well at higher temps (70-74), with high flocculation? I think these two characteristics would be desirable for most Pico brewers who are typically fermenting at room temp.

The FF valve helps with that. I've used 5 different strains of liquid yeast with FF at ~73'. Works great for me. Us-05 has off flavors both with FF and temp controlled in the mid 60s.

 

[Oleary]

Yes I have a single regulator leading to a three way manifold. Three co2 lines allow me to serve 2 and leaves an extra line for carbing another. You definitely want to force carb but a 2 way regulator is not needed for that. I have no use for a two way regulator, I serve and carb all my beers at 12 psi. I much prefer to force carb slower at serving pressure than the high pressure burst carbing. Takes about 5 days for a Pico batch to carb at 12 psi. If you want to force carb at higher psi or serve beers at two different volumes of co2 then you would need a dual regulator. I have never had a need for that, but you can always add a second later with an add on kit, don't need to decide yet. Look into balanced beer lines if you haven't yet, your going to need longer beer lines than ship with kegerators, mine are about 10' I believe.

There is no filter, the object your asking about is actually the taprite regulator.

Bad use of terminology on my part, I meant force carbing at a higher PSI, rolling the keg, etc (burst carbing looks like what I meant). The way your doing it makes more sense. I assume it's conditioning the beer a little that way also?

Thanks for the heads up on the balancing. Fascinating read. Sometimes I can't figure out amazon though. A 100 ft line was the same price as a 15 ft line. I won't have to worry about beer line for quite awhile (ever probably).

Thank you for the help and advice.

 

[Pelikan11]

What is everyone using for deep clean tabs?

 

[Oleary]

What is everyone using for deep clean tabs?

I just purchased these from amazon. If you have a dishwasher, they can serve a dual purpose.

 

[jrb03]

Bad use of terminology on my part, I meant force carbing at a higher PSI, rolling the keg, etc (burst carbing looks like what I meant). The way your doing it makes more sense. I assume it's conditioning the beer a little that way also?

Thanks for the heads up on the balancing. Fascinating read. Sometimes I can't figure out amazon though. A 100 ft line was the same price as a 15 ft line. I won't have to worry about beer line for quite awhile (ever probably).

Thank you for the help and advice.

Ya beer line comes in different shapes and sizes. I would recommend 3/16" PVC free tubing. The super cheap stuff that isn't pvc free can leave a plastic taste. There is also high dollar glass lined or antimicrobial beer line that I've never used, I just use the regular pvc free tubing, If you buy from Amazon make sure and read reviews the cheap stuff sucks. As far as balancing, ya it's important! Everyone learns the hard way the first time lol. The setup the kegerator maker gives you will get beer in your glass, but it will be mostly foam! I've setup a few tap systems over the years and 10' beer line is where I would start. Use it a while and if the pour is consistently too slow you can cut off a little at a time until you are happy with it. Mine are right at 10' I prefer a little slower pour with perfect head.

You can definitely carb faster at higher psi if your in a hurry, but it's easy to overcarb and a pain to fix. If you just carb at serving pressure you will never overcarb and ya the extra time helps the beer condition. People have different ways of doing it but after a couple bouts with over carbed beer i adopted the set it and forget it method and never looked back.

What is everyone using for deep clean tabs?

Picobrew recommends either the scent free finish tabs like they included with your Pico, or the zymatic cleaning tabs they sell on their website. I have used both and can't say one works better than other. The zymatic tabs produce less suds and the pack I got from them will last years.

 

[bobbob911]

The FF valve helps with that. I've used 5 different strains of liquid yeast with FF at ~73'. Works great for me. Us-05 has off flavors both with FF and temp controlled in the mid 60s.

It helps, but I expect results would still be incrementally better if fermentation was done at lower temps or the yeast strain was more forgiving.

I may try the swamp cooler method on my next batches but I certainly enjoy the flexibility to just set the kegs anywhere and forget about them for 2 weeks.

 

[Lbarouf]

What is everyone using for deep clean tabs?

My local Costcos (all of 4 at driving distance) carry the same "Finish" brand they included. It's the one we also use for our dishes, so it was an easy choice for us. I'm pretty sure you could find them at Walmart as well. And no brand powdered for the other cleaning.

 

[jrb03]

It helps, but I expect results would still be incrementally better if fermentation was done at lower temps or the yeast strain was more forgiving.

I may try the swamp cooler method on my next batches but I certainly enjoy the flexibility to just set the kegs anywhere and forget about them for 2 weeks.

I've done side by sides and stick with FF valve at room temp, personally. Frees up my kegerator for more beer rather than fermentation.

 

[Lbarouf]

Truthfully, I just pointed Annie to the version of the recipe for the Z in my account and she took it form there. Then we tweaked it a little after a couple trials. They're really great people. I think 34/70 may end up being a good choice, so I'm gonna experiment with that.

Thanks for your input. Please do share the results of the s 34/70 on your batches, if you can remember.

 

[Lbarouf]

Yes I have seen that a Pi interface is out there but haven't paid it much attention. Do some googling and you will find the info.

The constant monitoring is nice for the pretty graphs, but not necessary. You can use your phone to check in on it every now and then and get a less populated chart.

I hear you. I worry more on capturing and keeping the data more than the data resolution. Sure, matching the brewing graph is cool, but not required. I would like a solution that captures, stores and shares the info on the cloud. So if I'm away, I can keep an eye, and if the service I rely on goes down, I have my data. So having a Pi next to it and collecting, I don't have to worry.

I'll figure something out, I'm sure the Pi is a good fit for such thing.

 

[jrb03]

I've had my wifi go down, and when it comes back my iPad uploads all the missed data, so their cloud solution works just fine. One thing to note, if you ferment in the metal kegs reception from the tilt is pretty bad. I have to set my iPad right next to it. Not sure how a pi works but something to keep in mind.

 

[Oleary]

Ya beer line comes in different shapes and sizes. I would recommend 3/16" PVC free tubing. The super cheap stuff that isn't pvc free can leave a plastic taste. There is also high dollar glass lined or antimicrobial beer line that I've never used, I just use the regular pvc free tubing, If you buy from Amazon make sure and read reviews the cheap stuff sucks.

You hit the nail on the head. It was PVC. Luckily I was holding off on ordering it until I measured the distance from the keg to the tap. Thanks!

 

[Lbarouf]

I've had my wifi go down, and when it comes back my iPad uploads all the missed data, so their cloud solution works just fine. One thing to note, if you ferment in the metal kegs reception from the tilt is pretty bad. I have to set my iPad right next to it. Not sure how a pi works but something to keep in mind.

Yep, I was planning on using a Pi Zero W, which is a little bigger than a single Wrigley spearmint gum. Place it in a case INSIDE the kegerator, and have the micro usb cable routed inside to provide the power. The idea is to place the BLE antenna that will listen to the Tilt's broadcast, as close a possible. I would expect the Wifi signal to get inside the fridge no issue. Finding access to 5V 2A is the only challenge I see so far (without punching a hole that is). If I can connect somewhere inside or outside (the best could be to the kegsmart).

Your issues is the Tilt uses BLE and the signal is weak. Getting out of the keg (all metal faraday cage) and then the fridge is asking a bit much. That's why I was thinking placing it next to the keg , inside the fridge would get good reading.

 

[jrb03]

I ferment on top of kegerator more than in it. Even out of the kegerator it needs to be laying on or propped up against keg usually. When out of the keg the tilts range is great. When my second one arrived it showed up on my tilt app and I was very confused. It wasn't until I checked the mail I realized i was picking up the signal from the mailbox 50 feet outside!

 

[pagrider]

Jrb03 if you must know I have a zymatic. I ordered the pico c on kickstarter. I have a 10 gallon system and a Grainfather as well. Every one of these makes great beer. I also have 3 tilts which are great. I wish you wouldn't speak in such absolutes on US05 because it's rubbish. I have brewed heady topper clones at room temp with the fast ferment and they were terrible and then brewed them at 65 degrees and it was super close to the real deal. I have also brewed the same clone with 1056, and omega dipa all a little different but all terrific. You will develop off flavors at room temperature that's just a fact. It's the reason why commercial brewers the world over control fermentation temperature. Please people don't listen to the you don't have to control fermentation temperature stuff it's not true. Do your research on the topic

 

[Lbarouf]

I ferment on top of kegerator more than in it. Even out of the kegerator it needs to be laying on or propped up against keg usually. When out of the keg the tilts range is great. When my second one arrived it showed up on my tilt app and I was very confused. It wasn't until I checked the mail I realized i was picking up the signal from the mailbox 50 feet outside!

Hummm. Plastic mailbox maybe? Otherwise I don't see why the mailbox would differ from the keg. Anyhow, in my "future" setup, placing the keg in or out of the fridge for fermenting would not matter. I would love to compare the readings between the kegsmart and Tilt during a fermentation. if you can capture those it would be great.

Thanks,

 

[Lbarouf]

Jrb03 if you must know I have a zymatic. I ordered the pico c on kickstarter. I have a 10 gallon system and a Grainfather as well. Every one of these makes great beer. I also have 3 tilts which are great. I wish you wouldn't speak in such absolutes on US05 because it's rubbish. I have brewed heady topper clones at room temp with the fast ferment and they were terrible and then brewed them at 65 degrees and it was super close to the real deal. I have also brewed the same clone with 1056, and omega dipa all a little different but all terrific. You will develop off flavors at room temperature that's just a fact. It's the reason why commercial brewers the world over control fermentation temperature. Please people don't listen to the you don't have to control fermentation temperature stuff it's not true. Do your research on the topic

No need to be hostile. To each their own. We all have a different taste and opinion on things. Including yeasts. The same conversations occur on almost any aspect of brewing, may it be ingredients or equipment.

In any case, we heard you, you beg to differ. It's your opinion and you stated it loud and clear. Can we move on? Share what you expect out of the Pico from a Z user's perspective maybe?

 

[jrb03]

Jrb03 if you must know I have a zymatic. I ordered the pico c on kickstarter. I have a 10 gallon system and a Grainfather as well. Every one of these makes great beer. I also have 3 tilts which are great. I wish you wouldn't speak in such absolutes on US05 because it's rubbish. I have brewed heady topper clones at room temp with the fast ferment and they were terrible and then brewed them at 65 degrees and it was super close to the real deal. I have also brewed the same clone with 1056, and omega dipa all a little different but all terrific. You will develop off flavors at room temperature that's just a fact. It's the reason why commercial brewers the world over control fermentation temperature. Please people don't listen to the you don't have to control fermentation temperature stuff it's not true. Do your research on the topic

Enjoy your process I'll enjoy mine. There are plenty of people who will disagree with both of us. Pressurized fermentation works at higher temps without off flavors. I've done us05 plenty of times at 65'. It still sucks. To me. And a lot of other people. I'll be waiting for your review when you get your Pico and use Us05. It sucks more with Pico batches for whatever reason.

 

[pagrider]

No hostility it's all differing opinions based on ones own experience. My suggestion is do your research on the topic. I was trying to be helpful by linking the industries magazine article on the topic. I highly suggest a byo subscription to everyone. Hope it helps. I just didn't want someone ruining good wort by believing temp control during fermentation isn't important. I didn't mean to infer people on this thread had no experience brewing it just seemed that way because of the temp control thing so I was only trying to help.

The zymatic is terrific I was mostly using it to test new ideas to transfer to larger brews. Of late I have been brewing less and less with my larger system and using the zymatic. It's much easier. The pico c was ordered because of how much I like the zymatic and the reason I subscribed to this thread. I ordered the year long subscription as well so I will get a good run at a bunch of different beers and see how they turn out.

 

[pagrider]

Enjoy your process I'll enjoy mine. There are plenty of people who will disagree with both of us. Pressurized fermentation works at higher temps without off flavors. I've done us05 plenty of times at 65'. It still sucks. To me. And a lot of other people. I'll be waiting for your review when you get your Pico and use Us05. It sucks more with Pico batches for whatever reason.

No problem lets move on and be constructive there are many good resources for people to help them brew amazing beer. I suggest people try new ideas and see what works.

 

[jrb03]

No problem lets move on and be constructive there are many good resources for people to help them brew amazing beer. I suggest people try new ideas and see what works.

New ideas like pressurized fermentation!

Ha seriously, you will enjoy the Pico. It's a lot of fun and crazy quick brew process. I was in for a second Pico with the new kickstarter but switched it to a refurb zymatic. Looking forward to the Z but I will use the Pico more no doubt.

 

[VagueSkunk]

Jrb03 if you must know I have a zymatic. I ordered the pico c on kickstarter. I have a 10 gallon system and a Grainfather as well. Every one of these makes great beer. I also have 3 tilts which are great. I wish you wouldn't speak in such absolutes on US05 because it's rubbish. I have brewed heady topper clones at room temp with the fast ferment and they were terrible and then brewed them at 65 degrees and it was super close to the real deal. I have also brewed the same clone with 1056, and omega dipa all a little different but all terrific. You will develop off flavors at room temperature that's just a fact. It's the reason why commercial brewers the world over control fermentation temperature. Please people don't listen to the you don't have to control fermentation temperature stuff it's not true. Do your research on the topic

I ferment in a chest freezer...with an inkbird temperature controller and I still get tons of off-flavors (mostly buttery, but some peachy notes as well) when using US05.
I'm not going to be using US05 anymore, it's ruined many a batch for me. If you like it, more power to ya.

 

[bobbob911]

One of my next batches is Belle of the Ball saison. This one I should not use the fast ferment valve right? If so, should I be attempting to lower the ferment temperature below room temp?

 

[VagueSkunk]

One of my next batches is Belle of the Ball saison. This one I should not use the fast ferment valve right? If so, should I be attempting to lower the ferment temperature below room temp?

You can use the FF valve whenever you want. I use it because it's low profile and I can stack a 2nd keg on top of it. Can't do that with a standard airlock.

 

[jrb03]

One of my next batches is Belle of the Ball saison. This one I should not use the fast ferment valve right? If so, should I be attempting to lower the ferment temperature below room temp?

Actually a saison is one beer you probably don't want to use the FF valve on. A saison is all about the funky Belgian esters the yeast produces. The FF valve suppresses yeast ester production. If you want the funkiness use an airlock and ferment warm, that yeast is good up into the 80s with an airlock. If you don't like Belgian funkiness use the FF valve. Before anyone gets mad at me this was all verified by Annie Johnson Picos master brewer before I brewed it. Email her if you need verification. She suggested high 70s temp if you can do it.

 

[Kody_Wulfe]

My lodge bought a Pico... and we are not satisfied with the dispensing keg.. can we add sugar to the fermented wort then use a bottling wand to fill bottles??

Anyone have thoughts??

Thanks,

Kody

 

[pagrider]

I ferment in a chest freezer...with an inkbird temperature controller and I still get tons of off-flavors (mostly buttery, but some peachy notes as well) when using US05.

I'm not going to be using US05 anymore, it's ruined many a batch for me. If you like it, more power to ya.

That's really weird. What yeast are you having good luck with? My one concern with the pico is freshness of the ingredients.

 

[Pelikan11]

My lodge bought a Pico... and we are not satisfied with the dispensing keg.. can we add sugar to the fermented wort then use a bottling wand to fill bottles??

Anyone have thoughts??

Thanks,

Kody

Yes Kody you absolutely can do that.

I'm still waiting for the first person who has actually happily used the serving keg to dispense beer to visit this forum

 

[Lbarouf]

The only challenge with the Pico, that I see, pagrider, is the users are new to brewing. I converted some folks at the office, but they expect something like a Keurig. Put in, press a button and get something. I don't expect those people to be experimenting much. They'll use what's in the pack. Some of us have brewed and want simplicity (or repeatability) and see this as a wort machine. Not sure what percentage of Pico owners fall in that "category".

That's why I was thinking of another thread for recipes tweaks. Even if you like the S05, maybe reading that the S34/70 worked great for someone else will make you want to try it as well.

Like FF. It's far from new. It was the first I heard of from an appliance manufacturer building something that was "tested". I was happy to read they were looking into it. In the end it's not much faster. But I sure like the idea that I can brew at room temperature now because of it. No more sticking to cellar in the basement. That is stuff I would love to hear.

I enjoy both CBB Mag and BYO in digital format now. There's always a clone recipe I eventually try from there. Now, the day I will be able to brew a Westvleteren clone in my Pico.. that will call for celebration. Just too big of a beer even for the Z I believe.

 

[jrb03]

That's really weird. What yeast are you having good luck with? My one concern with the pico is freshness of the ingredients.

The ingredients are fine for sure. The US05 I can't speak for, they may be mishandling it but i seriously doubt it. Any yeast but 05 works great. They include Belle saison, S04, a fermentis wheat and lager yeast I forget the exact numbers. Those packs come out fine. Anything with 05 has off flavors. Substitute any liquid strain for 05 and it's great. There's the history of this issue already beat to death in this thread.

Yes Kody you absolutely can do that.

I'm still waiting for the first person who has actually happily used the serving keg to dispense beer to visit this forum

Not gonna happen!

The only challenge with the Pico, that I see, pagrider, is the users are new to brewing. I converted some folks at the office, but they expect something like a Keurig. Put in, press a button and get something. I don't expect those people to be experimenting much. They'll use what's in the pack. Some of us have brewed and want simplicity (or repeatability) and see this as a wort machine. Not sure what percentage of Pico owners fall in that "category".

That's why I was thinking of another thread for recipes tweaks. Even if you like the S05, maybe reading that the S34/70 worked great for someone else will make you want to try it as well.

Like FF. It's far from new. It was the first I heard of from an appliance manufacturer building something that was "tested". I was happy to read they were looking into it. In the end it's not much faster. But I sure like the idea that I can brew at room temperature now because of it. No more sticking to cellar in the basement. That is stuff I would love to hear.

I enjoy both CBB Mag and BYO in digital format now. There's always a clone recipe I eventually try from there. Now, the day I will be able to brew a Westvleteren clone in my Pico.. that will call for celebration. Just too big of a beer even for the Z I believe.

That's right, the Pico is a great wort maker but there is still a lot of room for error in the rest of the process.

 

[Kody_Wulfe]

Not sure where my thread went...

So my lodge chipped in and we bought... we plan on brewing batches and bottling them...

I do not like the serving keg.. it under performs...

So the question I have.. is can you rack over to the serving keg.. .add the bottling sugar... then auto siphon into bottles?????

Thanks..

Kody