PicoBrew Pico users

[jrb03]

Thanks. That's too bad. I wonder why they're not finding an alternative.

For a novice like myself, should I just google yeast substitutes (which I've done) and find an alternative or is there a better resource somewhere? I'm doing two english dark milds next (assuming they can find a fix for my problem). I had planned on using WLP002 (from the google search) but if there's a dry alternative that would work well, probably a little easier (my LHBS is about 45 minutes away). Thanks again for all of the help.

The English beers ship with S04 dry yeast. Just be sure to pitch 1 tsp which is plenty.

 

[jrb03]

What I don't understand about the whole US-05 thing, is that I used US-05 for years in 5 gallon batches and produced very clean beers with no esters or off flavors. If I chilled the wort fast, aerated with an oxygen stone, and used my fermentation chamber to ferment around 68 everything tasted great. I would expect with the proper brew process and pitching rates you could get very clean tasting beers with US-05 and pico generated wort.

Do you own a Pico? There are plenty of people using the US05 who are happy with it. Some of us seem more sensitive to its off flavors than others. It's like I can't untaste it lol. Curious if you've tried it in a Pico batch, seen plenty of people say the same thing, myself included.

 

[Lbarouf]

Just the 05. 90% of the packs come with 05 so we tend to do a disservice to the other dry yeasts forgetting that. I've done Bell of the ball with the bell saison yeast and a few lagers but I forget the dry lager yeast they include. Those come out fine. The Pico is a great wort maker the only problem is 05.

The Belle came with the Lalleman / Danstar Belle Saison.

I agree with the 'Pico being a great wort maker' statement. It saved me lots of time. Percise temperature control from what I have seen. As for the Safale, I actually have not brewed many of these yet. I still have a bunch of packs to brew though. Knock on wood that it won't be bad batches. I may just replace it with something else. It would be great to get a thread of recipes tweaks people have made.

 

[Lbarouf]

I always do 2 batches and split it. I have split a vial that I received expired and they took off just as fast as any other batch. I would not hesitate to just split it if you brew two, but if not it won't hurt to pitch the whole pack in one.

If you don't brew them back to back, would the yeast go bad once opened?
I don't use the remainder of dry yeast once opened, unless I do 2 batches that call for the same yeast, back to back.

 

[Lbarouf]

First of all an airlock is never a good indication of when fermentation is done. After 20 batches with the tilt I have a good feel for how long these batches take. I recommend 8-10 days for normal batches and 14 for the high abv like Pliny yeti and belle.

Second, the krausen out of FF is called blowoff and can happen with an airlock too, especially with the large beers like belle. It's normal and messy, the Pico brew keg doesn't allow much headspace. I use a few drops of fermcap-s in each batch and never get any blowoff.

Third, you picked a bad brew to try out FF! Belle is a saison, and saison is all about the yeast and the esters it produces. That brew is best fermented hot and with an airlock. The FF suppresses esters produced with warm fermentation, which is a good thing with every beer except saison where you want the funky Belgian flavors.

Is fermcap s the same anti foaming agent Picobrew sells for the Z ?

 

[bobbob911]

I'm still not 100% satisfied with my dry hopping quality (even using a separate hopping bag).

I've been thinking about using a stainless steel mesh tube around the dip tube and loose hopping into the serving keg - the mesh keeps the hop particles away from the dip tube.

Because of the small keg size I wouldn't want to trim the dip tube to fit, the mesh screen would need to fit unaltered.

Any ideas?

 

[jrb03]

If you don't brew them back to back, would the yeast go bad once opened?
I don't use the remainder of dry yeast once opened, unless I do 2 batches that call for the same yeast, back to back.

I would think you can sanitize a small mason jar and keep it for a bit in the fridge. How long I really don't know I've never tried to save it. I always brew 2 same day. From what I've read liquid is very perishable.

Is fermcap s the same anti foaming agent Picobrew sells for the Z ?

I'm 90% sure it's the same, but I've never purchased from them to verify. I picked mine up on Amazon for like $7 and I think it will last years.

 

[Denny]

I used 34/70 in the Bolderiaan Belgian Blonde and it came out nicely. Probably my favorite so far. The Saison yeast in Belle OF The Ball is also not bad.
I picked up some Bry 97 West Coast that I plan on giving a try in an IPA to compare but that will be at least a month or more away as I've got a Westy 12 clone ready to bottle and brewed the RIPA this morning (pitched the whole smack pack and attached a blow-off, no activity yet).

34/70 is kind of a strange choice for a Belgian beer. How did you come to try it there?

 

[Denny]

Thanks. That's too bad. I wonder why they're not finding an alternative.

In the world of dry yeast, there really isn't an alternative.

 

[Denny]

What I don't understand about the whole US-05 thing, is that I used US-05 for years in 5 gallon batches and produced very clean beers with no esters or off flavors. If I chilled the wort fast, aerated with an oxygen stone, and used my fermentation chamber to ferment around 68 everything tasted great. I would expect with the proper brew process and pitching rates you could get very clean tasting beers with US-05 and pico generated wort.

I did too for years, but once I tasted the peachy flavors I couldn't get past them any more. Now I taste that every time I use 05, no matter the batch size or brewing method.

 

[Denny]

Is fermcap s the same anti foaming agent Picobrew sells for the Z ?

yes

 

[chupalt]

Do you own a Pico? There are plenty of people using the US05 who are happy with it. Some of us seem more sensitive to its off flavors than others. It's like I can't untaste it lol. Curious if you've tried it in a Pico batch, seen plenty of people say the same thing, myself included.

No, I'm in on the Pico C kickstarter. Trying to get back into brewing after having 2 kids in the last 16 months. Just trying to get my plan figured out so that I can streamline as much as possible.

 

[jrb03]

No, I'm in on the Pico C kickstarter. Trying to get back into brewing after having 2 kids in the last 16 months. Just trying to get my plan figured out so that I can streamline as much as possible.

I hear you, I was in the exact same boat. Had kids and got away from brewing for a couple years. The Pico got me back into it and really enjoying it. Definitely try it with 1/2 tsp if you have liked 05 in the past. None of mine with 05 have been dumpers just find liquid a lot cleaner brew.

 

[mwills]

34/70 is kind of a strange choice for a Belgian beer. How did you come to try it there?

They shipped it with the Belgian Blonde. Not sure if it was a mistake or not but the end result was enjoyable. Fermented in the upper 50's and then went up to upper 60's after a week. No Belgian Spice notes but tasty.

 

[Ewelady]

About to start brewing again. Delivered a gross of lambs in the past month (yep 144) so I can go back to brewing and thought I better catch up on the yeast situation. Glad I did. The last brew was Tweaties which I am drinking right now with a level tsp of 05. I don't have the after taste problem I was having before but I can see 1/2 tsp working. Doing Fire in the Rye tomorrow.

Signed up for the $500 deal on kickstarter packs. I figured I did 11 packs since Dec 1 when I did the first brew and I was brewing slowly because I didn't have enough kegs and I was struggling with the beer and then I had to deliver lambs. Now that the last 3 batches were good to great quality and I have a a few more kegs I know I can brew more than 2 a month!

 

[bobbob911]

Do you own a Pico? There are plenty of people using the US05 who are happy with it. Some of us seem more sensitive to its off flavors than others. It's like I can't untaste it lol. Curious if you've tried it in a Pico batch, seen plenty of people say the same thing, myself included.

I think that's exactly the problem - the first couple of batches made me extremely sensitive to that US-05 flavor, and now I can't untaste it

My next batch of IPAs I'm going to try 1968 - apparently this is the house strain for Three Floyds and I am a big fan of their beers.

I just tapped my Deaf Turtle done with 1318 - its drinkable but overall I don't think this is a great pak recipe, and I won't be reordering it.

 

[bobbob911]

I was also hoping the BrewMarketplace ratings system would have been marginally useful by now, but it seems like every single pak is rated 3.5-4 stars!

 

[bford]

Man.... Pico Packs are already a bit cost prohibitive compared to buying your own recipes at an LHBS.... if you have to add in a different yeast... especially going with a liquid... that really ups the cost.

I'm still on the fence if I'm going to stay with the Pico C. I wish I had the money to jump on one of the refurbished Zymatics... that would be a no brainer for me.. as I love the batch size over the 1 gallon and I love having complete control and being able to buy my own ingredients.

I love the idea of being fully automated for the most part..

 

[jrb03]

Man.... Pico Packs are already a bit cost prohibitive compared to buying your own recipes at an LHBS.... if you have to add in a different yeast... especially going with a liquid... that really ups the cost.

I'm still on the fence if I'm going to stay with the Pico C. I wish I had the money to jump on one of the refurbished Zymatics... that would be a no brainer for me.. as I love the batch size over the 1 gallon and I love having complete control and being able to buy my own ingredients.

I love the idea of being fully automated for the most part..

No not really. A vial or pack will do two batches, and Yeast cake can easily be saved and pitched over and over. I have 3 different strains going and don't plan on buying again for quite a while.

And if you like US05 you might be ok with pitching it at a low rate. Some of us don't like the fruity esters it produces though.

 

[Oleary]

Man.... Pico Packs are already a bit cost prohibitive compared to buying your own recipes at an LHBS.... if you have to add in a different yeast... especially going with a liquid... that really ups the cost.

I'm still on the fence if I'm going to stay with the Pico C. I wish I had the money to jump on one of the refurbished Zymatics... that would be a no brainer for me.. as I love the batch size over the 1 gallon and I love having complete control and being able to buy my own ingredients.

I love the idea of being fully automated for the most part..

Don't forget the time savings and convenience. I just received a pico s and the time spent brewing/cleaning is minimal. I guess the question is how much is your time worth to you. If it's worth more than the price of the pack or extra yeast then don't look back.

 

[Oleary]

I was also hoping the BrewMarketplace ratings system would have been marginally useful by now, but it seems like every single pak is rated 3.5-4 stars!

It would be great to get a thread of recipes tweaks people have made.

@lbarouf: Great idea.
We can add ratings per Bob and maybe also add what yeast came with the pack (to avoid 05 if need be).

@bobbob911: I agree completely.

 

[VagueSkunk]

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one that can't stand US05. Thought I was going crazy there for awhile

 

[bford]

Don't forget the time savings and convenience. I just received a pico s and the time spent brewing/cleaning is minimal. I guess the question is how much is your time worth to you. If it's worth more than the price of the pack or extra yeast then don't look back.

Time is the main reason I'd look at an automated machine like this... I would just prefer something bigger like the Zymatic size.. but of course that comes with a much larger price tag... still, then you get complete control of your recipe.

I've always been BIAB so cleanup has never been much for me... but I'm not a purist who feels like babysitting everything makes me a better brewer or if you don't do that then you aren't really connected..ha..my favorite part of brewing is designing recipes, following through and then seeing if it turns out or what I might want to change next time.


It might seem silly but wrapping my head around paying 20 something dollars for a pack to make a bit over a gallon... and maybe adding in the price of more yeast just seems high when I'm putting my own recipes together for 2.5 gallons for the same price.

Again, I love the direction where these are heading and I'm currently in on the Pico C.... I'm just really weighing the options... I could use the same money to upgrade to a much nicer kettle and a SS Tech Brewbucket fermenter or two... so I have to decide quickly if I'm going to stay in and spend the money for something that seems cool, but a bit limiting... but still really cool!

Decisions, decisions!!!!

 

[pagrider]

US-05 is not the issue. Just keep you temp between 65-69 degrees. For good beer you need to control temperature otherwise you develop off flavors. This is true for all yeast. As you get into the hobby more you will learn temp control during fermentation is number one one the list of making good beer

 

[jrb03]

US-05 is not the issue. Just keep you temp between 65-69 degrees. For good beer you need to control temperature otherwise you develop off flavors. This is true for all yeast. As you get into the hobby more you will learn temp control during fermentation is number one one the list of making good beer

Sorry but this post is complete bull****. I'm not going to bother rehashing the conversations that have already taken place in this thread.

 

[Oleary]

Quick question: the fermometer attached to the mini keg is showing room temperature after about 72 hours. Are the kegs too thick to show the correct temperature or am I being a worry 'wort'? Pulling the fast fermentor valve released a good shot of gas...

 

[Oleary]

Time is the main reason I'd look at an automated machine like this... I would just prefer something bigger like the Zymatic size.. but of course that comes with a much larger price tag... still, then you get complete control of your recipe.

I've always been BIAB so cleanup has never been much for me... but I'm not a purist who feels like babysitting everything makes me a better brewer or if you don't do that then you aren't really connected..ha..my favorite part of brewing is designing recipes, following through and then seeing if it turns out or what I might want to change next time.


It might seem silly but wrapping my head around paying 20 something dollars for a pack to make a bit over a gallon... and maybe adding in the price of more yeast just seems high when I'm putting my own recipes together for 2.5 gallons for the same price.

Again, I love the direction where these are heading and I'm currently in on the Pico C.... I'm just really weighing the options... I could use the same money to upgrade to a much nicer kettle and a SS Tech Brewbucket fermenter or two... so I have to decide quickly if I'm going to stay in and spend the money for something that seems cool, but a bit limiting... but still really cool!

Decisions, decisions!!!!

It doesn't seem silly at all. I'm guessing most of us here went through the same process. When you know the cost of the contents of the pack, it's a tougher sell.
I brewed for a couple of years in the 80's then started back up last year and I'm still amazed (overwhelmed) by the variety of equipment out there. The good news is we have lots of choices but the bad news is we have lots of decisions to make.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[Lbarouf]

Quick question: the fermometer attached to the mini keg is showing room temperature after about 72 hours. Are the kegs too thick to show the correct temperature or am I being a worry 'wort'? Pulling the fast fermentor valve released a good shot of gas...

It takes a bit of time to get a good reading on the strips. They are accurate from what I compared with an infrared thermometer. I get my wort cooled overnight, or if brewing in the morning, at night it will reach the temp, I put in the strip if not already on it, and next day I pitch. The first few hours, I pull 2 or 3 times the keg lid stopper to reduce the suction. My lid almost went in a keg once. They say you should leave it in to keep the wort as sterile as possible.

So, after 8 or so hours I put the strip, and a good reading after 20 or so minutes appears to right. Get yourself a Tilt™ Floating Wireless Hydrometer and Thermometer for Brewing for more accuracy and tracking. I am leaning on buying one as well.

JRB, does your tilt send signals through the kegerator? How far can you get while fermenting in the kegerator and still read it?

 

[jrb03]

I also find the keg stickers to be accurate. I go by the sticker to know I'm at pitching temp, then pitch yeast and drop in tilt. The tilt always agrees with the sticker.

If I have the silicone keg seal and airlock on I have no problem with tilt reception from inside kegerator. If i have the metal lid and FF valve it severely inhibits reception. I can leave iPad on top of kegerator right above where the keg sits and get a signal but usually drops in and out often. Good enough to keep the chart going though.

 

[Oleary]

It takes a bit of time to get a good reading on the strips. They are accurate from what I compared with an infrared thermometer. I get my wort cooled overnight, or if brewing in the morning, at night it will reach the temp, I put in the strip if not already on it, and next day I pitch. The first few hours, I pull 2 or 3 times the keg lid stopper to reduce the suction. My lid almost went in a keg once. They say you should leave it in to keep the wort as sterile as possible.

So, after 8 or so hours I put the strip, and a good reading after 20 or so minutes appears to right. Get yourself a Tilt™ Floating Wireless Hydrometer and Thermometer for Brewing for more accuracy and tracking. I am leaning on buying one as well.

JRB, does your tilt send signals through the kegerator? How far can you get while fermenting in the kegerator and still read it?

I also find the keg stickers to be accurate. I go by the sticker to know I'm at pitching temp, then pitch yeast and drop in tilt. The tilt always agrees with the sticker.

Shouldn't my temp be several degrees higher than room? Too soon? I pitched a half tsp of the 05 at 73 degrees (room temp) on Saturday around noon.

I've seen y'all talking about the Tilt. Seems like a great addition. The pico is down right now (won't drain) so until they tell me how to fix or send a replacement, I'm going to hold off on any more purchases. I did buy the kegerator so I should probably be good for a bit also.

Thank you for the help and advice.

 

[jrb03]

Oh your expecting temp to rise from fermentation. You might see a little rise a couple degrees at most. The resolution on the keg sticker isn't great enough to really see it. On the tilt graph I can see a trend of temp up a degree or two during peak activity. Don't worry about that. Sorry to hear about your Pico they will get you fixed up.

 

[Oleary]

Oh your expecting temp to rise from fermentation. You might see a little rise a couple degrees at most. The resolution on the keg sticker isn't great enough to really see it. On the tilt graph I can see a trend of temp up a degree or two during peak activity. Don't worry about that. Sorry to hear about your Pico they will get you fixed up.

Whew. Thanks for putting my mind to ease. First brew with the pico so just paranoid.

Their customer service is pretty incredible. I did a second batch Sat and when it wouldn't drain I e-mailed "info". Ten minutes later I have a response and another 3 or 4 e-mails over the next hour or so. I had read all of the great stories here about it so I guess I can add mine to the list. It was definitely a deciding factor in the purchase and I'm glad to see it's still top notch.

 

[Denny]

US-05 is not the issue. Just keep you temp between 65-69 degrees. For good beer you need to control temperature otherwise you develop off flavors. This is true for all yeast. As you get into the hobby more you will learn temp control during fermentation is number one one the list of making good beer

Nope, sorry, but I've gotta disagree. The issue IS 05, not temp control. I agree that temp control may be one of the prime factors in making good beer, but not the only one. Ingredient choice plays a large part. And I've "gotten into the hobby more"....19 years and 514 batches.

 

[Oleary]

View attachment 398948

Here is the Brewvana they offered last kickstarter. It's the same 5.6 cu ft kegco kegerator my rebadged insignia is. That shelf allows you to get 4 kegs and kegplates in there. The standard shelf location will not allow the second row to fit with the kegplates. I have asked them to sell me the shelf but they aren't making them anymore.

Here is my kegerator, my solution was to cut down the included shelf to allow the third keg and plate. If your not using kegsmarts the standard shelf and location should allow you to get 4 1.75 gallon kegs in there, I don't know about any taller though would be close.

Starting to work on the kegerator. Couple of questions if you don't mind:

In looking at the picture, it looks like you added a 2 or 3 way manifold split from the main? What's the object that looks like an in-line filter directly to the right of the manifold (gold/black top with a red bottom)?

Is there any need to add secondary regulators? Do you ever have the need/want to have different pressures? The only thing that comes to mind is if I wanted to force carb at some point in the future.

Hoping to do it right the first time...

 

[jrb03]

Starting to work on the kegerator. Couple of questions if you don't mind:

In looking at the picture, it looks like you added a 2 or 3 way manifold split from the main? What's the object that looks like an in-line filter directly to the right of the manifold (gold/black top with a red bottom)?

Is there any need to add secondary regulators? Do you ever have the need/want to have different pressures? The only thing that comes to mind is if I wanted to force carb at some point in the future.

Hoping to do it right the first time...

Yes I have a single regulator leading to a three way manifold. Three co2 lines allow me to serve 2 and leaves an extra line for carbing another. You definitely want to force carb but a 2 way regulator is not needed for that. I have no use for a two way regulator, I serve and carb all my beers at 12 psi. I much prefer to force carb slower at serving pressure than the high pressure burst carbing. Takes about 5 days for a Pico batch to carb at 12 psi. If you want to force carb at higher psi or serve beers at two different volumes of co2 then you would need a dual regulator. I have never had a need for that, but you can always add a second later with an add on kit, don't need to decide yet. Look into balanced beer lines if you haven't yet, your going to need longer beer lines than ship with kegerators, mine are about 10' I believe.

There is no filter, the object your asking about is actually the taprite regulator.

 

[bford]

Nope, sorry, but I've gotta disagree. The issue IS 05, not temp control. I agree that temp control may be one of the prime factors in making good beer, but not the only one. Ingredient choice plays a large part. And I've "gotten into the hobby more"....19 years and 514 batches.

Denny... is there a better US style dry yeast to try over 05?

Thanks for all your help and info here!

 

[Lbarouf]

Denny... is there a better US style dry yeast to try over 05?

Thanks for all your help and info here!

I know you directed this to Denny (I will guess it's Denny Conn), I would give you my take on it. In 5 Gal batches, I have used White labs, it's liquid, with great results. The California Ale would be the one I would use.
If you want to stick to dry, Lallemand / Danstar has the Nottingham that could be a good replacement as well depending on the recipe you are planning doing. Different strains.

Like JRB pointed out, if you do 2 batches in a row on a pico, you could split the vial in half. Both wyeast and white labs had given me great results. And if you plan on subscribing, you can keep and reuse your yeast.

 

[Denny]

Denny... is there a better US style dry yeast to try over 05?

Thanks for all your help and info here!

Unfortunately that's the closest I've found to one I like. Everybody's tastes are different, though. One thing that just crossed my mind is that 34/70, which is a dry lager yeast, reportedly ferments cleanly up to 70F. I haven't tried that yet, but I may have to give it a go maybe 63.

 

[Denny]

I know you directed this to Denny (I will guess it's Denny Conn), I would give you my take on it. In 5 Gal batches, I have used White labs, it's liquid, with great results. The California Ale would be the one I would use.
If you want to stick to dry, Lallemand / Danstar has the Nottingham that could be a good replacement as well depending on the recipe you are planning doing. Different strains.

Like JRB pointed out, if you do 2 batches in a row on a pico, you could split the vial in half. Both wyeast and white labs had given me great results. And if you plan on subscribing, you can keep and reuse your yeast.

Yeah, if you're going to liquid that's a good choice, as is WY1056 or 1450 . I always found Nottingham a bit tart for my tastes, but I don't recall it being fruity, so that could be worth a shot.

 

[Lbarouf]

Unfortunately that's the closest I've found to one I like. Everybody's tastes are different, though. One thing that just crossed my mind is that 34/70, which is a dry lager yeast, reportedly ferments cleanly up to 70F. I haven't tried that yet, but I may have to give it a go maybe 63.

Yeah, the S 34/70 is in the packs for the boldariaan. I will try those soon. If the results are good, I may try my first freestyle packs with that in mind.

How did the back and forth with Pico went for you Denny? I was thinking about creating the packs using a Z. I just find the ingredient list a little short. If I make a recipe on the Z, it does not translate 1:1 into packs. For instance, I may use WL001. Replacing it with S34/70 may not give best results. How was it to deal with if I may ask, and if you may say.