PBW supply

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McMullan

wort maker
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My tub of PBW is getting too low for comfort and the HBSs I’d normally use for PBW don’t seem to have had any stock for quite a while. Shopping around in Europe, it’s ‘out of stock’. Seems like the tablets and liquid formats are more available, but I’m not sure if it’s old stock or the powder form is being replaced. Is it the same in the US? Anyone have any views on the liquid product?
 
The liquid is expensive, but it's all I've been buying since switching from the powder. I had a bad batch of the powder and contacted 5 Star, and they sent me a sample of the liquid. Best thing ever. Costs more, but it's way easier to use in my opinion. Amazon by the gallon.
 
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The liquid is expensive, but it's all I've been buying since switching from the powder. I had a bad batch of the powder and contacted 5 Star, and they sent me a sample of the liquid. Best thing ever. Costs more, but it's way easier to use in my opinion. Amazon by the gallon.
I noticed the liquid was a lot more expensive than the powder, weight for weight, but I think the liquid requires less so lb for lb should last longer.
 
I’m not that keen on making my own. Even if I could get all the components locally, which is highly unlikely in Norway, they’d probably cost more overall than PBW.
 
I have a 5 gallon bucket of the liquid, but I don't use it since I started using this amazing thing called sodium/potassium hydroxide (caustic, lye). Perhaps look for some lye at a hardware store?
 
I’m not that keen on making my own. Even if I could get all the components locally, which is highly unlikely in Norway, they’d probably cost more overall than PBW.
I thought I'd use your post as an excuse to look up the components of PBW. Humm, in the UK (on EBay) the main component (Sodium Percarbonate) is creeping up in price ... 20Kg (can't even get 25Kg sacks no more) is £50 (small bottles of it are a ridiculous price).

What follows will be a bit below your understanding, but I'm writing here for anyone. (And perhaps anyone to correct me for anything dumb I've said!).

As this stuff gives off oxygen if it gets damp, it is potentially a fire risk (it will help sustain fire, not burst into flames itself) so there could be reluctance of governments to let you have it, store it, transport it, etc.

The (only) other active component is sodium metasilicate (30% suggested by some), a degreaser, and substitute for trisodium phosphate which is an ecological disaster (which you can still get it in the UK, but it should have been banned ages ago). I don't bother with it, percarbonate will deal with any organic grime and I'm not in a habit of spraying WD40 over my brewing kit.

So, +1 for using just sodium percarbonate to replace PBW ... if you can get it! Bulk buy (20-25Kg) or get ripped off with smaller amounts (it does come in handy for other jobs BTW!).


This is a bit more about the stuff (commercial chatter ... or lies?): https://stppgroup.com/understanding-sodium-percarbonate-a-powerful-cleaning-agent/

Now, the other bit that I've wanted to look up for ages ... it's "kill" ability! (Just microbes, I'm sure it'll evict any rats in your fermenter, or perhaps turn their fur white so it's easier to aim half-bricks).

Found this: https://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=87407.0

So, 1g made up to 100ml creates a 0.325% w/v hydrogen peroxide solution? That's the same as the 10g per litre concentration I use mostly (at 40-60°C). Not really enough? From what I've seen you need x10 for that (3%) to be an effective killer? 100g in one litre, that'll strip paint! (Not kidding, it does strip paint!). Maybe 10g/L for general cleaner, 100g/L (but fraction of volume) as a cleaned surface wash as killer? Do rinse off ... don't need to be as meticulous as with a chlorine cleaner, but it will make a bad flavour (using it as "no-rinse" as some suggest is a dumb move as I see it).
 
My tub of PBW is getting too low for comfort and the HBSs I’d normally use for PBW don’t seem to have had any stock for quite a while. Shopping around in Europe, it’s ‘out of stock’. Seems like the tablets and liquid formats are more available, but I’m not sure if it’s old stock or the powder form is being replaced. Is it the same in the US? Anyone have any views on the liquid product?
No issues at the LHBS I work or online.
 
I checked the MaltMagnus site, but wow.... shipping cost to Norway just as much as the cost for the 3.6kg one.
 
Still readily available in Canada, but when I checked on a UK site, many of their 5-Star Chemicals, including smaller PBW, were out of stock.
 
I noticed the liquid was a lot more expensive than the powder, weight for weight, but I think the liquid requires less so lb for lb should last longer.
Not sure what's available in your neighborhood but I found lots of dairy type products can be used successfully in the brewery. Cows are cows no matter where they are so this might help you with a cleaner until PBW is available.

I use this utensil cleaner for most of my manual cleaning. It's high foamy so you wouldn't want to use it with a pump.

1709388484937.png
 
Not sure what's available in your neighborhood but I found lots of dairy type products can be used successfully in the brewery. Cows are cows no matter where they are so this might help you with a cleaner until PBW is available.

I use this utensil cleaner for most of my manual cleaning. It's high foamy so you wouldn't want to use it with a pump.

View attachment 843106
There’s a farmer’s supplier just down the road. I’ll have to pop in there and see what they’ve got.
 
There’s a farmer’s supplier just down the road. I’ll have to pop in there and see what they’ve got.
Besides that, cleaner I also use a couple different sanitizers from that same brand. They have a whole bunch of other "dairy" products that could be used but I haven't explored them in detail.
 
Liquid Powdered Brewer's Wash? What is the world coming to?
I use it preferentially in my svbs where it circulates through the manifold and tubing. Have always had slight issues with getting it fully dissolved.
Do I really have to explain that it was a joke based on the oxymoron? See?

What is the world coming to? ;)
 
New Zealand had a drought for PBW a while ago.
The thread linked above shows how to make it and is well worth doing if you can get the ingredients.
I believe it's the free radicals in the H2O2 that tend to damage cells for the " sanitizer" effect.
Perhaps an ozone producer inline pumped as used in some high end aquariums could be an option.
I would be tempted by some enzybrew if I could get it and then follow on with starsan. But currently I have good cheap access to the PBW ingredients including EDTA.
 
Not sure what's available in your neighborhood but I found lots of dairy type products can be used successfully in the brewery. Cows are cows no matter where they are so this might help you with a cleaner until PBW is available.

I use this utensil cleaner for most of my manual cleaning. It's high foamy so you wouldn't want to use it with a pump.

View attachment 843106
A picture of the back of the bottle and ingredients would be useful.
 
A picture of the back of the bottle and ingredients would be useful.
Yes it would be helpful but I don't have one. The product is Stearns/Dairyland brand sold around here in the farm stores, Fleet Farm.

I did find a PDF about it, I'll try to post it when I get to my PC.
 
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So, in theory, and based on what our garden looks like at the moment, I actually have all the “PBW” I need?
IMG_0032.jpeg

I’ve ordered some sodium percarbonate. Hopefully it doesn’t foam too much, like the expensive “alternatives” to PBW being sold by my LHBSs.
 
It’s like this for 5-6 months here most years. The novelty wears off after the first week. ...
I remember a time when the novelty would wear off (although we'd have to wait a week or two before it's all back to mud). Now the Met Office kindly issue us with "Amber Warnings" of impending snowy doom. We all stand by the window to catch a glimpse of the solitary snowflake amongst the rain.


Anyway: I continued to look into this "sodium percarbonate" that I put so much trust into: I failed to mention the other breakdown product, sodium carbonate or "washing soda", plays its part in the cleaning, especially when hot, due to its high alkalinity (just short of "caustic" though).

As before, these are just musings, I'm not making recommendations.

From my earlier post; the "Hydrogen Peroxide" for sanitising if trying to get a 3% solution (100g Percarbonate per Litre) is a bit extreme (I've seen that concentration suggested for cleaning driveway!). So, I thought why not use Hydrogen Peroxide from a bottle as a spray-on no-rinse sanitiser. But the crazed bomb makers are killing that option off too*. In UK you can still get Hydrogen Peroxide fairly cheap, just a shame you can't get anyone to deliver it for cheap!

I'll possibly consider Isopropyl Alcohol as a spray-on no-rinse sanitiser ... if that's not likely to poison anyone (and me!). That's cheap. Meanwhile, if H2O2 is a dodgy sanitiser perhaps someone can highlight that, I can't see why it was not amongst the recommendations for brewers? It looks the bee's knees, so why doesn't it get more coverage?


*I'm interested in the explosives subject, because "explosives" was my job for over ten years. But I wouldn't dabble with something that might go off if someone sneezes ten miles away, or if it thinks someone sneezed! Leave that to deranged criminals (they won't be missed).
 
Below is what I use, off Amazon. Works great. I've made it myself also, but it's just too easy to click the button on Amazon.

I won't send any pictures of my area. I'll summarize by saying the pool is open :)

https://a.co/d/5d1ZF8O
View attachment 843199
Not sure what I dread more, shoveling snow the 3-4 times I need to over the winter or opening and maintaining the pool for those 3-4 months...
 
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