New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[aaronm13]

London Fog. WLP066.

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-single?id=134&type=YEAST&style_type=0

Are you positive London Fog is the same as LAIII? I've used both a lot recently and both ferment totally different and end product is pretty different too. Very curious on this as I wouldn't have put the two of them as the same strain.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Are you positive London Fog is the same as LAIII? I've used both a lot recently and both ferment totally different and end product is pretty different too. Very curious on this as I wouldn't have put the two of them as the same strain.

I’m definitely not positive. But I will say that it is most commonly the white labs yeast that is considered comparable to London Ale 3. I think there are subtle differences, or sometimes even not-so-subtle differences, in strains that are thought to be the same from different manufacturers. Wyeast London Ale 3 (1318) omega British Ale V, and imperial juice are all pretty similar. I’ve never actually used London fog, but I do believe it is widely accepted as the white labs “version” of those other yeasts. The white labs description of it is very similar to that of London ale three, but the specs on temp range and attenuation are slightly different.

Seeing as you have used it several times, I would actually defer to your experience with it.

 

[aaronm13]

I’m definitely not positive. But I will say that it is most commonly the white labs yeast that is considered comparable to London Ale 3. I think there are subtle differences, or sometimes even not-so-subtle differences, in strains that are thought to be the same from different manufacturers. Wyeast London Ale 3 (1318) omega British Ale V, and imperial juice are all pretty similar. I’ve never actually used London fog, but I do believe it is widely accepted as the white labs “version” of those other yeasts. The white labs description of it is very similar to that of London ale three, but the specs on temp range and attenuation are slightly different.

Seeing as you have used it several times, I would actually defer to your experience with it.

That's very true as Northern Brewer posted about not all Conan strains being the same, I'm sure the same can be said for LAIII. When I started using London Fog, attenuation was 65-70%, now it's 75-82% so even that strain has changed over the years. I used to love it but does nothing for me now but it's performance is rock solid where LAIII is a lottery as to where it will finish.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I haven’t really shared any beers I’ve made in a while, but this one came out pretty good. I just kegged and carbed it and took a sample and it’s fantastic. I’ve made a lot of beers and this one is definitely towards the top of the list in terms of my favorites.

65% Mecca Grade Lamonta (2-row)
29% Mecca Grade Shaniko (white wheat)
6% Pilsner DME

Ca: 80
Mg: 10
Na: 62
Cl: 223
So4: 60

Mashed at 150
PH: 5.3
1.072 - 1.016 7.35%
Approximately 78% AA

10 min: 2oz mosaic
170 WP: 2oz mosaic, 2oz galaxy
DH: 6oz galaxy, 4oz mosaic lupomax

16 grams Verdant ipa yeast (based upon lallemand pitch rate calculator)

7 days at 68
2 days at 70
3 days at 72

I fermented the beer out and then dropped the temp to 60° for 24 hours, and then dropped it to 58 for an additional 24 hours. I then close-transferred it into the fermentation CO2 purged keg. At 58°, I popped the lid of the keg, and immediately started running CO2 through the gas post while I dropped in the dry hops. The lid was probably open for a maximum of 10 seconds. I then sealed it up and did 10 cycles of purging to 30 psi.

Over the next 12 hours I roused the keg three times, approximately every four hours. Each time I took it out of the Keezer I rolled it back-and-forth five or six times. I turned it upside down and back around a few times as well. I did this process four or five times each of the three times I took it out. It then sat in the keezer at 58 for another 12 hours, and then I did the exact same procedure I outlined before.

So in total, it was at 58° for 36 hours and I roused it six times. After the last time rousing it, I immediately set the chest freezer to 40°. It reached 40 in about four hours, and then I let it sit for another 24 hours at that temperature.

This dry hop keg had a floating dip tube with the small filter attachment on it. It’s similar to the Janish type filter that goes over the entire dip tube, but this one just goes right next to the floating ball.

I then jumped the beer from the dryhop keg into a liquid purged serving keg. Carbed it up and took a sample and it’s really really good.

The first and main thing I notice is that I can absolutely pick out defined galaxy and defined mosaic flavors. I don’t have to search for them and convince myself that they’re there. They’re absolutely there in the forefront. The aroma is very strong and super pungent. Mouth feel is thick and lush and very full. I’m sure this will continue to mellow a little bit, as there is The slightest hint of hop burn. It’s really not too pronounced, but it’s just a little bit hot. But for being this young and having that many hops I’m pretty impressed. It’s immediately very drinkable.

Maybe someday I’ll figure out how to take a good picture of beer, but this should give you an idea. If you’ve ever had trillium’s headroom, which is a hugely hop saturated mosaic/galaxy beer, this is pretty close.

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/beers/headroom

 

[tld6008]

Any info for me guys? Do you dry hop after passing a forced diacetyl test? Do you have to do another forced diacetyl test after dry hopping too? Any help on this question would be greatly appreciated!

I don't do a forced test but do what I call a rest by bring temp up to 72 after fermentation for 6-12 hrs then back down to mid 50s to drop yeast then up to mid 60s.for dry hop from there cold crash 48-50 to drop the hops prior to kegging. I have never had a diacetyl problem

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Ferment for 2weeks, usually 68 to 70f, crash to 45, drop yeast if you can, bring back to 58f dry hop there for 2 or 3 days, cold crash for 36 hours, then package. That's by my process that has been working for me.

 

[R.A.I.D]

The first and main thing I notice is that I can absolutely pick out defined galaxy and defined mosaic flavors. I don’t have to search for them and convince myself that they’re there. They’re absolutely there in the forefront. The aroma is very strong and super pungent. Mouth feel is thick and lush and very full. I’m sure this will continue to mellow a little bit, as there is The slightest hint of hop burn. It’s really not too pronounced, but it’s just a little bit hot. But for being this young and having that many hops I’m pretty impressed. It’s immediately very drinkable.

Thank you for sharing.

Try to cold crash at 28 F for 4 days after dry hopping. It helped on my hop burn issue.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Thank you for sharing.

Try to cold crash at 28 F for 4 days after dry hopping. It helped on my hop burn issue.

28? Isn’t that too cold? Will it not
freeze?

Also, are you talking about cold crashing for 4 days on the hops, or after removing them?

I’m definitely considering going down to 34-36 for maybe 72 hours.

 

[aaronm13]

I haven’t really shared any beers I’ve made in a while, but this one came out pretty good. I just kegged and carbed it and took a sample and it’s fantastic. I’ve made a lot of beers and this one is definitely towards the top of the list in terms of my favorites.

65% Mecca Grade Lamonta (2-row)
29% Mecca Grade Shaniko (white wheat)
6% Pilsner DME

Ca: 80
Mg: 10
Na: 62
Cl: 223
So4: 60

Mashed at 150
PH: 5.3
1.072 - 1.016 7.35%
Approximately 78% AA

10 min: 2oz mosaic
170 WP: 2oz mosaic, 2oz galaxy
DH: 6oz galaxy, 4oz mosaic lupomax

16 grams Verdant ipa yeast (based upon lallemand pitch rate calculator)

7 days at 68
2 days at 70
3 days at 72

I fermented the beer out and then dropped the temp to 60° for 24 hours, and then dropped it to 58 for an additional 24 hours. I then close-transferred it into the fermentation CO2 purged keg. At 58°, I popped the lid of the keg, and immediately started running CO2 through the gas post while I dropped in the dry hops. The lid was probably open for a maximum of 10 seconds. I then sealed it up and did 10 cycles of purging to 30 psi.

Over the next 12 hours I roused the keg three times, approximately every four hours. Each time I took it out of the Keezer I rolled it back-and-forth five or six times. I turned it upside down and back around a few times as well. I did this process four or five times each of the three times I took it out. It then sat in the keezer at 58 for another 12 hours, and then I did the exact same procedure I outlined before.

So in total, it was at 58° for 36 hours and I roused it six times. After the last time rousing it, I immediately set the chest freezer to 40°. It reached 40 in about four hours, and then I let it sit for another 24 hours at that temperature.

This dry hop keg had a floating dip tube with the small filter attachment on it. It’s similar to the Janish type filter that goes over the entire dip tube, but this one just goes right next to the floating ball.

I then jumped the beer from the dryhop keg into a liquid purged serving keg. Carbed it up and took a sample and it’s really really good.

The first and main thing I notice is that I can absolutely pick out defined galaxy and defined mosaic flavors. I don’t have to search for them and convince myself that they’re there. They’re absolutely there in the forefront. The aroma is very strong and super pungent. Mouth feel is thick and lush and very full. I’m sure this will continue to mellow a little bit, as there is The slightest hint of hop burn. It’s really not too pronounced, but it’s just a little bit hot. But for being this young and having that many hops I’m pretty impressed. It’s immediately very drinkable.

Maybe someday I’ll figure out how to take a good picture of beer, but this should give you an idea. If you’ve ever had trillium’s headroom, which is a hugely hop saturated mosaic/galaxy beer, this is pretty close.

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/beers/headroom
View attachment 761529View attachment 761530

That looks absolutely perfect. Did you find the Verdant yeast worked ok on its own especially with the high OG? I'm so reluctant to go back to LA3/Verdant for higher abv beers even though I love what it brings to the table. They also have a certain milky look to them that you totally nailed. Do you harvest this yeast to use again or just pitch a new pack?

 

[R.A.I.D]

28? Isn’t that too cold? Will it not
freeze?

Also, are you talking about cold crashing for 4 days on the hops, or after removing them?

I’m definitely considering going down to 34-36 for maybe 72 hours.

It will not freeze. The alcohol in the beer prevents it from freezing. Don't be afraid of 28 F. It will freeze around 22 F. Depending on the ABV.

And yes, I do this before racking off the hops.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I typically go hard cold crash to 38 for 2days and works well. I'd go lower but in my mini fridge in a NC garage, it takes some effort/time to get lower unless in winter. I visually watch it clear and seems to work quite well.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Believe it or not, Ive never used S04 before and tomorrow I will be using it for the first time in a NEIPA, OG 1.080. For those who have used it, what temp do you figure to get the most fruity esters from it? I think Ive seen peeps taking about 65 on the low end of Ferm temp for more fruitiness, but just would like to see confirmation. Also - as I don't have a ton of experience with dry yeast on higher OGs, would 2 packs be sufficient? Thanks.

Yesterday was the first time in 3 months I brewed and tomorrow, Im brewing again to get my fermenter pipeline alive again! Woot woot

EDIT: ferments shows AA to be 74-80%. I will be step mashing as my usual at 150 (40min) /163 (30min) /170 with 170 being 10minute mashout. So trying to anticipate my AA.

 

[AM1]

Guys quick question on cold crashing which i intend to do for the first time.

i plan to do a 40-45f for 36 hours to drop out any particles etc from my neipa.
my question is whether this will introduce any oxygen to the beer?

Also as i bottle condition, and which i intend to do following the cold crash, do i need to bring the temperature up in the fermenter or just bottle at 40-45f and place bottles for carnonation in room temperatures?

After the cold crash will there be enough yeast to kick start carbonation in the bottles??

thank you all in advance!!

 

[tld6008]

There will be plenty of yeast, after bottling elevated temp will carbonate faster but after a week or so need to store cold

 

[wepeeler]

Any info for me guys? Do you dry hop after passing a forced diacetyl test? Do you have to do another forced diacetyl test after dry hopping too? Any help on this question would be greatly appreciated!

Typically a D rest isn't necessary because you're going to be fermenting higher than 66 anyway. Most brewers are starting around 66 and letting it get up to 70-72, plenty good for getting rid of diacetyl. Just be sure you're at FG, then soft crash to 50 for 24-48 hours to drop yeast. DH 24-48 hours at same temp, then cold crash (if you want) and keg. I've kegged before and after cold crashing and not so sure it makes a big difference. Maybe a little less hop debris in the cold crashed beer. Ymmv

 

[wepeeler]

Are you positive London Fog is the same as LAIII? I've used both a lot recently and both ferment totally different and end product is pretty different too. Very curious on this as I wouldn't have put the two of them as the same strain.

London Fog, London Ale 3...similar names. But I would put my money on not being identical either. I used LA3 exclusively before finally branching out. LF does not produce the same beer. To me it's less sweet, more dank and produces a softer mouthfeel. Fwiw I wouldn't use LA3 again, for a neipa.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Guys quick question on cold crashing which i intend to do for the first time.

i plan to do a 40-45f for 36 hours to drop out any particles etc from my neipa.
my question is whether this will introduce any oxygen to the beer?

Also as i bottle condition, and which i intend to do following the cold crash, do i need to bring the temperature up in the fermenter or just bottle at 40-45f and place bottles for carnonation in room temperatures?

After the cold crash will there be enough yeast to kick start carbonation in the bottles??

thank you all in advance!!

So depending on your equipment ... you'll need to find a way to avoid suckback when you cold crash. If you can do that then your good to go and I would bottle cold then let the bottles come back to room temp for a week or 2 but once carbed would store them cold if you can.

 

[Shenanigans]

So depending on your equipment ... you'll need to find a way to avoid suckback when you cold crash. If you can do that then your good to go and I would bottle cold then let the bottles come back to room temp for a week or 2 but once carbed would store them cold if you can.

I agree with this.
Also if it's your first time bottling with cold beer be aware that it will cause condensation on the bottles if they are warmer than the beer.
This results in the bottles becoming very slippy so be careful.
I only did it once when I brewed a lager and almost dropped a few bottles.
Mabe others with more experience have a suggestion like wearing certain type of gloves or also cooling the bottles to reduce condensation.

 

[AM1]

Thank you for the valuable info guys much appreciated!

 

[secretlevel]

Guys quick question on cold crashing which i intend to do for the first time.

i plan to do a 40-45f for 36 hours to drop out any particles etc from my neipa.
my question is whether this will introduce any oxygen to the beer?

Also as i bottle condition, and which i intend to do following the cold crash, do i need to bring the temperature up in the fermenter or just bottle at 40-45f and place bottles for carnonation in room temperatures?

After the cold crash will there be enough yeast to kick start carbonation in the bottles??

thank you all in advance!!

In regards to oxygen ingress, many folks with standard fermenters just tape a mylar balloon to an airlock and put it on when ready to cold crash.

You basically use some tape to get it pretty tight around the airlock (I use a one piece), then hook it up to CO2 to get some CO2 inside before placing it on the fermenter.
https://brulosophy.com/2018/05/10/7-methods-for-reducing-cold-side-oxidation-when-brewing-beer/
Edit: you can also use a little CO2 from fermentation, just be careful and use it at the tail-end of ferm to fill it up, as it can fill quickly. You don't need the balloon to be all the way full.

 

[AM1]

In regards to oxygen ingress, many folks with standard fermenters just tape a mylar balloon to an airlock and put it on when ready to cold crash.

You basically use some tape to get it pretty tight around the airlock (I use a one piece), then hook it up to CO2 to get some CO2 inside before placing it on the fermenter.
https://brulosophy.com/2018/05/10/7-methods-for-reducing-cold-side-oxidation-when-brewing-beer/

Thanks for the info above! Will give it a shot!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was intending to provide their LAIII equivalent strain, which I thought was Burlington but I’m not correct. Which strain is their version of LAIII?

London Fog. WLP066.

Ach sorry, I meant to reply to this earlier. My impression is that White Labs are notably cautious about claiming a direct equivalence between London Fog and 1318 compared to some of their other "matches", it tends to be framed as more "this would be our choice for making hazies" rather than "this is our version of..."

I interpret that as it behaves similarly but doesn't share the same source. But we know that 1318 is not the classic "Tadcaster" diastatic yeast used by Boddington's in their heyday, and that genetically it's a Whitbread yeast similar to 1098. So my suspicion is that the "Boddington's" link is that 1318 was harvested from a Boddies made in a Whitbread factory after Whitbread bought Boddies and closed down their brewery in Manchester, with just a standard Whitbread production yeast.

And Whitbread yeasts are one of the most ubiquitous yeasts in British brewing, so there are plenty of sources for White Labs to get a yeast that is genetically almost identical to 1318, but which wasn't harvested from Boddies. Hence their caution in talking about the source of London Fog, whilst confidently recommending it for beers that are similar to those made with 1318.

As an aside, it's just weird how this idea persists of Dickensian fogs in London, when they were driven by the pollution from burning coal in cities. Which we've not done for 60+ years, following the Great Smog of 1952, the year the Queen came to the throne. So inasmuch as the average Brit thinks of London fog, it's in the context of it killing 10,000 of our citizens - not a cool thing to base your branding on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London

 

[Sully1986]

So here is the first poor trying with the buddy who got me the hops. Super tasty. Will edit with full recipe later

Edit. For recipe:

36.4% 2-row
36.4% golden promise
12.1% flaked Oats
12.1% white wheat
3% Honey Malt (had left over from another brew.

Mashed @154* for 1 hours.

.5oz mosaic at 30min
1oz of both Mosaic and Simcoe at 10 min
2oz mosaic/simcoe 1oz of galaxy 30 min whirlpool at 160

1pkg of both Imperial Barbarian/Juice

Ferment at 68 till fg reach raised to 70 for 48 hours.

Drop to 60 for 72hour dryhop
4oz galaxy
2.5oz Mosaic
1.5oz Simcoe

cold crash before packaging.

OG : 1.074
FG: 1.018

 

[SanPancho]

for anyone interested there is NZ nectaron for sale. 10# remaining as of this post.

For Sale - NZ nectaron hops

 

[aaronm13]

So my latest DIPA is in the keg 4 weeks now and I'm really happy with it except the body of it is pretty bad. For the ABV and FG it's very thin so wondering how I might be able to fix it. The details of the beer are as follows.

OG- 1.084
FG - 1.020
ABV - 8.5%

Crisp Pale Malt - 62.6%
Wheat malt - 13%
Oat Malt - 12.6%
Spelt - 11.8%
Yeast - Omega DIPA 1st gen

Calcium - 114
Mag - 7
Sodium - 79
Sulfate - 140
Chloride - 233

Hops were Citra hot side and 7oz of Nectaron and 3.5oz Citra dry hop.

I know without trying the beer it's impossible to tell but any ideas would be great. Looking back over previous recipes where I think I was happy with the mouthfeel I used around 7% carapils but have dropped it recently for some unknown reason. Would using this again help? I really need to take proper tasting notes of beers and not rely on memory.

 

[HopsAreGood]

So my latest DIPA is in the keg 4 weeks now and I'm really happy with it except the body of it is pretty bad. For the ABV and FG it's very thin so wondering how I might be able to fix it. The details of the beer are as follows.

OG- 1.084
FG - 1.020
ABV - 8.5%

Crisp Pale Malt - 62.6%
Wheat malt - 13%
Oat Malt - 12.6%
Spelt - 11.8%
Yeast - Omega DIPA 1st gen

Calcium - 114
Mag - 7
Sodium - 79
Sulfate - 140
Chloride - 233

Hops were Citra hot side and 7oz of Nectaron and 3.5oz Citra dry hop.

I know without trying the beer it's impossible to tell but any ideas would be great. Looking back over previous recipes where I think I was happy with the mouthfeel I used around 7% carapils but have dropped it recently for some unknown reason. Would using this again help? I really need to take proper tasting notes of beers and not rely on memory.

At a quick glance your FG, grains used, Chloride level, and size of dryhop would all lead you to believe the body should be pretty full.

The only thing I can think from the information provided, is the yeast. I haven’t used Conan by itself in quite some time, but when I did use it years ago I don’t recall it leaving a particularly full or round mouth feel. But to be honest all of the other characteristics I just listed should counteract that.

Carapils would just leave some additional dextrins in the beer, but at 1.020 you already have plenty of them. At nearly 40% wheat/ oats/spelt, I don’t really think carapils would be noticeable.

It could also just be time. Konan drops pretty heavy so if it was bound to any of the good stuff it may have taken some down with it.

 

[wepeeler]

So my latest DIPA is in the keg 4 weeks now and I'm really happy with it except the body of it is pretty bad. For the ABV and FG it's very thin so wondering how I might be able to fix it. The details of the beer are as follows.

OG- 1.084
FG - 1.020
ABV - 8.5%

Crisp Pale Malt - 62.6%
Wheat malt - 13%
Oat Malt - 12.6%
Spelt - 11.8%
Yeast - Omega DIPA 1st gen

Calcium - 114
Mag - 7
Sodium - 79
Sulfate - 140
Chloride - 233

Hops were Citra hot side and 7oz of Nectaron and 3.5oz Citra dry hop.

I know without trying the beer it's impossible to tell but any ideas would be great. Looking back over previous recipes where I think I was happy with the mouthfeel I used around 7% carapils but have dropped it recently for some unknown reason. Would using this again help? I really need to take proper tasting notes of beers and not rely on memory.

Carapils will help with body/mouthfeel. I use close to 10% in my neipas. I know some brewers using up to 20%, which I think is too much.

What was your mash temp? Your beer will be a different beer after 4 weeks in the keg. Some of mine have dropped out in that timespan, resulting in a thinner mouthfeel and less haze. Not totally clear by any means, but definitely some setting going on.

 

[aaronm13]

At a quick glance your FG, grains used, Chloride level, and size of dryhop would all lead you to believe the body should be pretty full.

The only thing I can think from the information provided, is the yeast. I haven’t used Conan by itself in quite some time, but when I did use it years ago I don’t recall it leaving a particularly full or round mouth feel. But to be honest all of the other characteristics I just listed should counteract that.

Carapils would just leave some additional dextrins in the beer, but at 1.020 you already have plenty of them.

That's what I'm thinking too. Every box is ticked for a big mouthfeel but is pretty thin. I was aiming for a FG of 15 or 16 but I overshot my gravity by a good few points so kinda glad it didn't go any lower. For 8.5% there's no booze off it. I've ordered some more Verdant yeast inspired by your last brew even though I swore I wouldn't use LA3 again on a DIPA but you proved it can be done. Checked their calculator and it says I need 17g of yeast so just going to pitch the 2 full packs. I haven't used Omega Conan in a good few years so can't remember what those beer were like.

 

[aaronm13]

At a quick glance your FG, grains used, Chloride level, and size of dryhop would all lead you to believe the body should be pretty full.

The only thing I can think from the information provided, is the yeast. I haven’t used Conan by itself in quite some time, but when I did use it years ago I don’t recall it leaving a particularly full or round mouth feel. But to be honest all of the other characteristics I just listed should counteract that.

Carapils would just leave some additional dextrins in the beer, but at 1.020 you already have plenty of them. At nearly 40% wheat/ oats/spelt, I don’t really think carapils would be noticeable.

It could also just be time. Konan drops pretty heavy so if it was bound to any of the good stuff it may have taken some down with it.

Carapils will help with body/mouthfeel. I use close to 10% in my neipas. I know some brewers using up to 20%, which I think is too much.

What was your mash temp? Your beer will be a different beer after 4 weeks in the keg. Some of mine have dropped out in that timespan, resulting in a thinner mouthfeel and less haze. Not totally clear by any means, but definitely some setting going on.

Mash temperature was 66C (151F). To be honest now you mention it I didn't notice it being so thin right away so maybe it is the yeast just dropping out. I'll give the keg a shake, haha.

 

[HopsAreGood]

That's what I'm thinking too. Every box is ticked for a big mouthfeel but is pretty thin. I was aiming for a FG of 15 or 16 but I overshot my gravity by a good few points so kinda glad it didn't go any lower. For 8.5% there's no booze off it. I've ordered some more Verdant yeast inspired by your last brew even though I swore I wouldn't use LA3 again on a DIPA but you proved it can be done. Checked their calculator and it says I need 17g of yeast so just going to pitch the 2 full packs. I haven't used Omega Conan in a good few years so can't remember what those beer were like.

If you’re going to use verdant I would recommend using exactly what the pitch calculator says. I know it seems like having more than enough yeast is beneficial, but if the direct spec from the manufacturer says x amount of yeast is needed, then just go with that. That’s what I did. I rounded up to the nearest gram. Also, I mashed at 150 and when I checked the temp after the 60 minutes it had gone down to 147. So I think mashing low definitely helped.

Another thing to consider is that I usually use some fairly small percent of dextrose, but with this beer I didn’t. I’m not sure of the science behind it but I’ve seen people say that because dextrose is so fermentable and easy for the yeast to digest, it can actually be counterproductive because they feast so easily on the initial sugars, and then slow down and crap out a little bit on the more “difficult” to chew on sugars from the grains. Without the dextrose there’s no initial frenzy for them to slow down after.

It’s just anecdotal, but in this beer the lack of dextrose and mashing low resulted in a 78% attenuation. Like you I have struggled to get Verdant to attenuate in previous batches.

 

[aaronm13]

If you’re going to use verdant I would recommend using exactly what the pitch calculator says. I know it seems like having more than enough yeast is beneficial, but if the direct spec from the manufacturer says x amount of yeast is needed, then just go with that. That’s what I did. I rounded up to the nearest gram. Also, I mashed at 150 and when I checked the temp after the 60 minutes it had gone down to 147. So I think mashing low definitely helped.

Another thing to consider is that I usually use some fairly small percent of dextrose, but with this beer I didn’t. I’m not sure of the science behind it but I’ve seen people say that because dextrose is so fermentable and easy for the yeast to digest, it can actually be counterproductive because they feast so easily on the initial sugars, and then slow down and crap out a little bit on the more “difficult” to chew on sugars from the grains. Without the dextrose there’s no initial frenzy for them to slow down after.

It’s just anecdotal, but in this beer the lack of dextrose and mashing low resulted in a 78% attenuation. Like you I have struggled to get Verdant to attenuate in previous batches.

You're probably right there with the pitching amounts. If the manufactures say X amount it must be right. I've only used this yeast once before on a 6.5% beer and it finished where it was supposed to, I just had no activity for around 36 hours. It's very close links to LA3 has totally put me off using it again as this yeast has caused me nothing but heartache. I use a Grainfather so maintaining mash temps is easy so might even go as low as 149 on it.

 

[Dgallo]

So my latest DIPA is in the keg 4 weeks now and I'm really happy with it except the body of it is pretty bad. For the ABV and FG it's very thin so wondering how I might be able to fix it. The details of the beer are as follows.

OG- 1.084
FG - 1.020
ABV - 8.5%

Crisp Pale Malt - 62.6%
Wheat malt - 13%
Oat Malt - 12.6%
Spelt - 11.8%
Yeast - Omega DIPA 1st gen

Calcium - 114
Mag - 7
Sodium - 79
Sulfate - 140
Chloride - 233

Hops were Citra hot side and 7oz of Nectaron and 3.5oz Citra dry hop.

I know without trying the beer it's impossible to tell but any ideas would be great. Looking back over previous recipes where I think I was happy with the mouthfeel I used around 7% carapils but have dropped it recently for some unknown reason. Would using this again help? I really need to take proper tasting notes of beers and not rely on memory.

How is your carb level? An often over looked part of body in NEIPA is the carbonation level. Higher carb level leads to less perceived body/mouthfeel. Recently I’ve like to shoot for about 2.2-2.4 vols

 

[HopsAreGood]

How is your carb level? An often over looked part of body in NEIPA is the carbonation level. Higher carb level leads to less perceived body/mouthfeel. Recently I’ve like to shoot for about 2.2-2.4 vols

This is a good point. I’ve played with different carb levels and have settled in on 2.21 vols. 10 psi at 42 degrees. I used to do 2.4 but prefer the slightly lower 2.2.

 

[aaronm13]

How is your carb level? An often over looked part of body in NEIPA is the carbonation level. Higher carb level leads to less perceived body/mouthfeel. Recently I’ve like to shoot for about 2.2-2.4 vols

Good point. It's definitely on the higher side. Not sure of the exact PSI. Should I maybe off gas it a little?

 

[wepeeler]

Mash temperature was 66C (151F). To be honest now you mention it I didn't notice it being so thin right away so maybe it is the yeast just dropping out. I'll give the keg a shake, haha.

It's 100% gotten thinner just by being in the keg for 4 weeks, BUT it's shouldn't be super noticeable with your grist and hop schedule. I only notice it when I'm down to the last few pints or so. They come out a lot clearer (still hazy, but def not opaque) and taste thinner.

I wouldn't shake the keg lol. I do know of some breweries that do that, but the stuff that drops out isn't worth putting back into suspension.

151 is a little low for that OG IMO. YMMV. I used to mash super high, like 156. I find that 152 is a great spot to keep a nice thick mouthfeel without the end product being overly sweet. Let those hops shine!

 

[couchsending]

Been a while since I contributed anything here. We were fortunate to brew a beer with Cellarmaker earlier this month and we just released it today. It’s a mash up of how we brew our highly hopped 5% beers and what they call Hazy WC Pale Ale. A lot of similarities to the recipes I was contributing here for a while. Clean yeast, present bitterness, permanent haze but no wheat or oats. Full mouthfeel for 5%. All about the hop character. Lots and lots of hop character. Here’s the recipe if anyone would like to try it at home.

Guest Experience
Hazy WC Pale Ale

Rahr 2 Row
20% Pils
-ideally European to help cut FAN down
8% Carafoam
2% crisp Caramalt
1-2% Acidulated

1.052/1.014
Yeast: ECY Old Newark
-the grandfather of most American Yeasts (Ballantine)

mash: 154/162/168

I forget the water profile exactly, pretty sure
100ish Ca
4-1 So4 to Cl
NaCl targeting 50ppm Na

mash pH 5.35-5.45
Preboil ph 5.2-5.3

Simcoe @ 30
HBC586/Simcoe WP @195-200
3

(we usually do larger 30 minute additions and lower WP to 180)

50ish IBUs

KO ph target of 5.0

Ferment at 66 for 3 days then freerise to 68/70 for D rest. Remove yeast, cool to 66 and add DH. 1.3oz/gallon DH all at once. Rouse next day. Remove hops the next day and check for creep/diacetyl. If none then cool to 32 removing more hops.

DH: 60% HBC586 T-90
17% Simcoe
17% Centennial
6% HBC586 Cryo

We keep alternating between DH at 55 vs DH at warmer temps. We had a beer end up with that rotting melon character (otherwise known as hop stank) that was dry hopped at 55 and have been scaredof it ever since. Think it was more yeast health related but time will tell. We consider it an off flavor so try to avoid it at all costs.

 

[beervoid]

Been a while since I contributed anything here. We were fortunate to brew a beer with Cellarmaker earlier this month and we just released it today. It’s a mash up of how we brew our highly hopped 5% beers and what they call Hazy WC Pale Ale. A lot of similarities to the recipes I was contributing here for a while. Clean yeast, present bitterness, permanent haze but no wheat or oats. Full mouthfeel for 5%. All about the hop character. Lots and lots of hop character. Here’s the recipe if anyone would like to try it at home.

Guest Experience
Hazy WC Pale Ale

Rahr 2 Row
20% Pils
-ideally European to help cut FAN down
8% Carafoam
2% crisp Caramalt
1-2% Acidulated

1.052/1.014
Yeast: ECY Old Newark
-the grandfather of most American Yeasts (Ballantine)

mash: 154/162/168

I forget the water profile exactly, pretty sure
100ish Ca
4-1 So4 to Cl
NaCl targeting 50ppm Na

mash pH 5.35-5.45
Preboil ph 5.2-5.3

Simcoe @ 30
HBC586/Simcoe WP @195-200
3

(we usually do larger 30 minute additions and lower WP to 180)

50ish IBUs

KO ph target of 5.0

Ferment at 66 for 3 days then freerise to 68/70 for D rest. Remove yeast, cool to 66 and add DH. 1.3oz/gallon DH all at once. Rouse next day. Remove hops the next day and check for creep/diacetyl. If none then cool to 32 removing more hops.

DH: 60% HBC586 T-90
17% Simcoe
17% Centennial
6% HBC586 Cryo

We keep alternating between DH at 55 vs DH at warmer temps. We had a beer end up with that rotting melon character (otherwise known as hop stank) that was dry hopped at 55 and have been scaredof it ever since. Think it was more yeast health related but time will tell. We consider it an off flavor so try to avoid it at all costs.

View attachment 763094View attachment 763095
View attachment 763097

Nice one! I would be curious to know how long the haze will be stable.
I heard in a Yakima webinar, I think it was with Creature Comforts that its definitely related to yeast health and the amount in suspension when dryhopping.

 

[LumberZach]

So I plan on brewing one next week and decided to try an ultra low calcium water profile this time. My water profile looks like this (I use Bru'n Water supporter version for my calculations):

• Calcium - 20ppm
• Magnesium - 13ppm
• Sodium - 84ppm
• Sulfate - 98ppm
• Choloride - 250ppm
• pH - 5.29 (with the help of some lactic acid)

I was able to achieve such low calcium levels with the help of canning salt and potassium chloride. I didn't use a single gram of calcium chloride. This was all built with distilled water.

As for the recipe, here's my grain bill:

• 62.96% Rahr 2Row
• 25.93% BestMalz Spelt
• 11.11% Weyermann CaraFoam

I get terrible efficiency for some reason brewing these. Always have, but I now brew 1.75-2 gallon batches (into the fermonster), so it's no big deal to buy a few more ounces of grain. My wife is a travel nurse, so her and I are always bounching place to place every 6 months or so. I needed to put my 10 gallon kettle and the majority of my gear in storage and bought a 4 gallon thick wall aluminum kettle with a Brew Bag to match. I don't need a chiller as I'm able to put the whole kettle in the kitchen sink to get it cooled down to whirlpool temp and ultimately pitching temp.

Hopping looks like this:

• 0.5oz. Idaho 7 @ 5 minutes left in the boil
• 0.5oz. Idaho 7, 0.5oz. Citra & 0.5oz. Galaxy in the whirlpool @ 170F (I let this fall over the course of 30 minutes)
• 2oz. Citra & 2oz. Galaxy for the dry hop after soft crashing for 24 hours. I let them sit for 48 hours before crashing for 24 hours, and finally kegging.

Before traveling with my wife, I was brewing 5 gallon batches and dry hopping on day 2 of fermentation. I got really good at using Galaxy and would use 6oz. of it for the dry hop. Never had an issue with hop burn or anything. The beers alway were so saturated with tropical notes. I would go through a keg in less than a month because all my friends wanted growler fills. This was back in 2015 to 2017. I feel Galaxy crops that us homebrewers can get have taken a nose dive in recent years. The last time I used Galaxy in a notable quantity all I got out of it was a muted non tropical earthy flavor. My tried and true recipe using Galaxy was no longer the same. I swore I would never use it again until I heard that brewers where getting those trademark tropical notes. With this new beer I decided to give Galaxy another shot but not use it exclusively. I've learned alot about hopping with these small batches that hops do not scale linearly. Thanks to this thread, I've also moved my day 2 dry hops to a post fermentation dry hop after soft crashing. I gained some of my mojo back simply because of this process change. I will update this thread with my results.

 

[beervoid]

So I plan on brewing one next week and decided to try an ultra low calcium water profile this time. My water profile looks like this (I use Bru'n Water supporter version for my calculations):

• Calcium - 20ppm
• Magnesium - 13ppm
• Sodium - 84ppm
• Sulfate - 98ppm
• Choloride - 250ppm
• pH - 5.29 (with the help of some lactic acid)

I was able to achieve such low calcium levels with the help of canning salt and potassium chloride. I didn't use a single gram of calcium chloride. This was all built with distilled water.

As for the recipe, here's my grain bill:

• 62.96% Rahr 2Row
• 25.93% BestMalz Spelt
• 11.11% Weyermann CaraFoam

I get terrible efficiency for some reason brewing these. Always have, but I now brew 1.75-2 gallon batches (into the fermonster), so it's no big deal to buy a few more ounces of grain. My wife is a travel nurse, so her and I are always bounching place to place every 6 months or so. I needed to put my 10 gallon kettle and the majority of my gear in storage and bought a 4 gallon thick wall aluminum kettle with a Brew Bag to match. I don't need a chiller as I'm able to put the whole kettle in the kitchen sink to get it cooled down to whirlpool temp and ultimately pitching temp.

Hopping looks like this:

• 0.5oz. Idaho 7 @ 5 minutes left in the boil
• 0.5oz. Idaho 7, 0.5oz. Citra & 0.5oz. Galaxy in the whirlpool @ 170F (I let this fall over the course of 30 minutes)
• 2oz. Citra & 2oz. Galaxy for the dry hop after soft crashing for 24 hours. I let them sit for 48 hours before crashing for 24 hours, and finally kegging.

Before traveling with my wife, I was brewing 5 gallon batches and dry hopping on day 2 of fermentation. I got really good at using Galaxy and would use 6oz. of it for the dry hop. Never had an issue with hop burn or anything. The beers alway were so saturated with tropical notes. I would go through a keg in less than a month because all my friends wanted growler fills. This was back in 2015 to 2017. I feel Galaxy crops that us homebrewers can get have taken a nose dive in recent years. The last time I used Galaxy in a notable quantity all I got out of it was a muted non tropical earthy flavor. My tried and true recipe using Galaxy was no longer the same. I swore I would never use it again until I heard that brewers where getting those trademark tropical notes. With this new beer I decided to give Galaxy another shot but not use it exclusively. I've learned alot about hopping with these small batches that hops do not scale linearly. Thanks to this thread, I've also moved my day 2 dry hops to a post fermentation dry hop after soft crashing. I gained some of my mojo back simply because of this process change. I will update this thread with my results.

Sodium and sulfate clash

 

[LumberZach]

Sodium and sulfate clash

I pulled this profile from the Tree House yeast thread, and didn't see anyone complaining about it.