# New England IPA"Northeast" style IPA

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#### tracer bullet

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
~70 ml for a 10lb grain bill that was mostly 2 row with 10 oz of crystal!

Yeah, that's a ton. "A couple" ml would be normal. Everyone's water is different of course but 7ml might be getting to be a lot for me where I'd second guess.

Well, experience... now you know!

#### aaronm13

##### Well-Known Member
I used the brewersfriend calculator for advanced water chemistry and mash. I'm going to assume I just didn't use it correctly given how significant the error was. ~70 ml for a 10lb grain bill that was mostly 2 row with 10 oz of crystal! Tasting it along the way I kept thinking, "hmm, it's never been this tart before."

I did exactly that this time, as per Bru'n, and have an amount of acid that seems much more reasonable: 1 tbsp of 10% phosphoric to bring 5 gallons down to ~5.3.
That's a lot of acid alight. I'm roughly at 8-10ml of 75% phosphoric acid on a 6g batch into the fermenter.

#### rnewt

##### Member
That's a lot of acid alight. I'm roughly at 8-10ml of 75% phosphoric acid on a 6g batch into the fermenter.

Well, 70 ml of 10% isn't that different from 8-10 mls of 75%, no?

We're in that 8th grade math problem: if Rob has 100 mls of 10% acid solution and Aaron has 50 mls of 75% solution, how many should each contribute to obtain x mls of y% acid solution?

#### tracer bullet

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
An interesting subject just opened up. For the folks who brew a lot of NEIPA's:

* What is your target mash pH, and verify if you measure at room temp
* Roughly how many ml's acid do you use and what % is that acid to get there with a typical grain bill
* Do you use RO water or tap (if tap, does it run on the soft or hard side)

Assuming about a 5 gallon brew of a higher ABV but not quite full-on Imperial beer.

This isn't scientific of course but may be interesting to see if there are any outliers.

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#### bailey mountain brewer

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Target 5.2 measured at 70f

Just under .1ml of 85% phosphoric acid per gallon of water. Eg. I brew 15 gallon batches, if strike water is 15 gallons I use 1.2ml of 85% phosphoric acid in the mash, my hlt starts at 22 gallons of water to cover my herms coil and that water becomes my sparge water, I use 2ml of acid in the hlt.

I am on a private well, I've sent my water to ward and my alkalinity is around 98ppm CaCo3

Adding that amount of acid puts my alkalinity around 20ppm, I used a salifert kit to dial in my acid additions before I brewed with the acid additions, not software. This gave me a precise measurement, not a guess, and I hit 5.2 the majority of the time.

#### YeastFeast

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
An interesting subject just opened up. For the folks who brew a lot of NEIPA's:

* What is your target mash pH, and verify if you measure at room temp
* Roughly how many ml's acid do you use and what % is that acid to get there with a typical grain bill
* Do you use RO water or tap (if tap, does it run on the soft or hard side)

Assuming about a 5 gallon brew of a higher ABV but not quite full-on Imperial beer.

This isn't scientific of course but may be interesting to see if there are any outliers.
I shoot for 5.5 pH at room temp. I use 88% lactic acid and typically add 1.5ml (almost always between 1-2ml). I have an RO system for brewing and build water depending on style. I use EZWater Calculator to figure everything out. 5 gallon batches. The last 6 out of 7 brew days have been Hazy IPAs, I’m obsessed with making a great one!

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#### YeastFeast

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
FYI - the last three brews I've added 2ml, 1.5ml & 1.75ml of 88% lactic acid to hit my number in EZWaterCalculator.

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#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
An interesting subject just opened up. For the folks who brew a lot of NEIPA's:

* What is your target mash pH, and verify if you measure at room temp
* Roughly how many ml's acid do you use and what % is that acid to get there with a typical grain bill
* Do you use RO water or tap (if tap, does it run on the soft or hard side)

Assuming about a 5 gallon brew of a higher ABV but not quite full-on Imperial beer.

This isn't scientific of course but may be interesting to see if there are any outliers.
Mash I target 5.3 using lactic acid at 88%. Amount isnt going to matter as much as long as you’re using an appropriate calculator as the amount will vary based on water starting chemistry , volume, grainbill, and additions. I measure at room temp after 20 mins. And I adjust my tap water (hard water) after dechlorinating it

I also target a 5.0 k.o ph

#### Jesse Runowski

##### Active Member
* What is your target mash pH, and verify if you measure at room temp
* Roughly how many ml's acid do you use and what % is that acid to get there with a typical grain bill
* Do you use RO water or tap (if tap, does it run on the soft or hard side)

- Mash pH 5.2 at "room temp" I try to measure at the same temp every time, 65F.
- Usually ~6mls of Phosphoric Acid 85%
- Tap water for now, but looking to switch to RO

I take my pH a few times during the brew day, trying to hit ~4.8-4.9 into the fermenter. To do this, I take a pH reading with 10 mins left in the boil. I then adjust if needed.

#### tracer bullet

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Amount isn't going to matter as much as long as you’re using an appropriate calculator as the amount will vary based on water starting chemistry , volume, grainbill, and additions.
100% agree. But some of us aren't great w/ the calculators... With your setup do you mind sharing approx how much 88% Lactic do you add? Just so people can see if it's more like 1-2 ml's, or more like 10ml.

My thought with this is just to give people some idea of what others do, so they can flag themselves for further review if they do something wildly different with a similar setup. Everyone's setup will be different, and so is the "right" amount as well. Not to mention different preferences in the final product. But hopefully this gives some idea of what others do for comparison purposes.

I never answered the question myself. I didn't want to make a data point that was totally wrong.

I aim for ~ 5.4, have fairly soft by nature tap water, and in a 5 gallon batch will use up to 10ml of 10% phosphoric. That would be 1.1 or so ml if I used 88%.

If nothing else I feel like I'm not way off with my methods.

#### tld6008

##### Master of Nothing
HBT Supporter
FWIW over the last 40 batches of various IPA recipes I have used between 3 to 7 ML of 88% lactic, most common amount is either side of 5ml. I normally use RO water.

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
100% agree. But some of us aren't great w/ the calculators... With your setup do you mind sharing approx how much 88% Lactic do you add? Just so people can see if it's more like 1-2 ml's, or more like 10ml.

My thought with this is just to give people some idea of what others do, so they can flag themselves for further review if they do something wildly different with a similar setup. Everyone's setup will be different, and so is the "right" amount as well. Not to mention different preferences in the final product. But hopefully this gives some idea of what others do for comparison purposes.

I never answered the question myself. I didn't want to make a data point that was totally wrong.

I aim for ~ 5.4, have fairly soft by nature tap water, and in a 5 gallon batch will use up to 10ml of 10% phosphoric. That would be 1.1 or so ml if I used 88%.

If nothing else I feel like I'm not way off with my methods.
I see what you’re hoping for but ph is extremely impacted by starting water, unless your using RO/Distilled it will vary greatly

My tap has a bicarbonate of 120-130 ppm so I literally need a high amount of acid for pale beers around 5-6 ml for mash and about 3ml for sparring. People starting with RO/Distilled water, probably need no acid at all or very minimal amount

#### aaronm13

##### Well-Known Member
Well, 70 ml of 10% isn't that different from 8-10 mls of 75%, no?

We're in that 8th grade math problem: if Rob has 100 mls of 10% acid solution and Aaron has 50 mls of 75% solution, how many should each contribute to obtain x mls of y% acid solution?
Missed the 10% part. My bad.

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Well, 70 ml of 10% isn't that different from 8-10 mls of 75%, no?

70 ml of 10% Phosphoric Acid seems reasonable for a 10 gallon batch. For a 5 gallon batch with a light grain bill and my tap water (which if fairly low in alkalinity) I was often using in the 30-35 ml range. I recently swapped over to 88% Lactic as it seemed like a cheaper solution. My last light colored 5 gallon batch uses 3.6 ml of 88% Lactic.

#### murphyslaw

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
I shoot for 5.2. Usually 3-7ml of 88% lactic in the mash. I use RO.

I use one of those milwaukee units with the temp probe and just do it hot. I think that adjusts to room temp equivalent???? Or maybe I'm doing it wrong.

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
I shoot for 5.2. Usually 3-7ml of 88% lactic in the mash. I use RO.

I use one of those milwaukee units with the temp probe and just do it hot. I think that adjusts to room temp equivalent???? Or maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Only way to know is to take a reading at room temp and see if the correction is correct. Take a big scoop of grain and wort (I use a 8 oz measuring cup) let it get to 65-70 and see if they correspond.

I always do it at room temp. They guy who taught me about water chem and ph is someone I greatly admire and he said “always check ph at 65/70*f”

#### bailey mountain brewer

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Wait... grain and wort? I always just pull a sample of the wort, and yes I check at 65 to 70f

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
Wait... grain and wort? I always just pull a sample of the wort, and yes I check at 65 to 70f
Yes. Grain and wort. The grain bed is where the ph actually matters as that’s where the enzymatic reactions are taking place. That will give you the best reading. You literally should scoop your reading from the top of the mash after stirring. Shouldn’t be taking it from below your false bottom

#### bailey mountain brewer

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Interesting, I've always pulled a sample of my runoff as I recirculate, I use a herms system.. so I'm brewing tomorrow and I'll get scoop right from the mash tun for my reading. Thanks for the advice.

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
Interesting, I've always pulled a sample of my runoff as I recirculate, I use a herms system.. so I'm brewing tomorrow and I'll get scoop right from the mash tun for my reading. Thanks for the advice.
It won’t be much different. But maybe .1-.2 diffence depending

#### Gary25

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
I‘ve been using a ladle to get a scoop of grain and wort from the top of the mash. Cool it on an ice pack and check ph when temp falls below 30 degrees centigrade. I experimented with wort vs grain and wort and there was a difference but I don’t recall how much.

I have been using acidulated malt per brun water spreadsheet (typically 1/2 to 1 lb for 10 gallon batch). I have both lactic and phosphoric acid on hand, so think I’ll switch to just using acid.

I also use city tap water. It is pretty soft (used Ward Labs test) and I add chlorides/sulphate per beer style.

seems like it takes about 20 minutes cooling to get an accurate ph test. I used to test the mash directly but after ruining a ph meter, I now test cooled samples.

#### YeastFeast

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
I feel like I'm targeting a mash pH higher than everyone that has posted here. I've always been looking for a mash pH range between 5.4 - 5.6 measured at "room temp". Thoughts?

My source is from the theelectricbrewery.com:

For optimal starch to sugar conversion we want the pH to be around 5.2 to 5.4, but only when measured in the mash temperature range of somewhere around 145-165F. pH changes with temperature, so if the sample has been cooled to room temperature, a pH of 5.4 to 5.6 is the target range instead of 5.2 to 5.4. Don't confuse the inclusion of automatic temperature compensation (ATC) in the pH meter to mean that the target range will always be 5.2 to 5.4 regardless of temperature, as that would be incorrect. ATC only compensates for the change in the electrical response of the pH meter probe with temperature. It does not compensate for the chemical / energy change in the water that naturally makes a hotter mash more acidic (lower pH). The pH target range will therefore always depend on the temperature of the sample: 5.2 to 5.4 when measured at mash temperature, or 5.4 to 5.6 when measured at room temperature. For more information see our Measuring pH guide.

#### Gary25

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
I feel like I'm targeting a mash pH higher than everyone that has posted here. I've always been looking for a mash pH range between 5.4 - 5.6 measured at "room temp". Thoughts?

My source is from the theelectricbrewery.com:

For optimal starch to sugar conversion we want the pH to be around 5.2 to 5.4, but only when measured in the mash temperature range of somewhere around 145-165F. pH changes with temperature, so if the sample has been cooled to room temperature, a pH of 5.4 to 5.6 is the target range instead of 5.2 to 5.4. Don't confuse the inclusion of automatic temperature compensation (ATC) in the pH meter to mean that the target range will always be 5.2 to 5.4 regardless of temperature, as that would be incorrect. ATC only compensates for the change in the electrical response of the pH meter probe with temperature. It does not compensate for the chemical / energy change in the water that naturally makes a hotter mash more acidic (lower pH). The pH target range will therefore always depend on the temperature of the sample: 5.2 to 5.4 when measured at mash temperature, or 5.4 to 5.6 when measured at room temperature. For more information see our Measuring pH guide.
Thanks for sharing this—lots of great info on mash pH on that site.

My Hanna pH meter has not been as durable as his. After replacing two probes I bought a cheaper one for less than the replacement probe. After reading the details on elelctricbrewery, I may bring the Hanna back into service. I‘m also going to start using his rinse and calibration techniques. I agree with his pH ranges for hot and room temp as well. 5.4 at room temp is my new target.

If interested, see step 5 on this link:

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
I feel like I'm targeting a mash pH higher than everyone that has posted here. I've always been looking for a mash pH range between 5.4 - 5.6 measured at "room temp". Thoughts?

My source is from the theelectricbrewery.com:

For optimal starch to sugar conversion we want the pH to be around 5.2 to 5.4, but only when measured in the mash temperature range of somewhere around 145-165F. pH changes with temperature, so if the sample has been cooled to room temperature, a pH of 5.4 to 5.6 is the target range instead of 5.2 to 5.4. Don't confuse the inclusion of automatic temperature compensation (ATC) in the pH meter to mean that the target range will always be 5.2 to 5.4 regardless of temperature, as that would be incorrect. ATC only compensates for the change in the electrical response of the pH meter probe with temperature. It does not compensate for the chemical / energy change in the water that naturally makes a hotter mash more acidic (lower pH). The pH target range will therefore always depend on the temperature of the sample: 5.2 to 5.4 when measured at mash temperature, or 5.4 to 5.6 when measured at room temperature. For more information see our Measuring pH guide.
Pale beers should be targeted slightly lower. 5.3/5.4 is usually the ideal mash ph range for pale beers. Dark beers 5.4-5.5 is a good range because it helps mellow the roast and gives you a bit of wiggle room incase the malt is darker or lighter than advertised by the maltster.

People going for to 5.2 for mashing is fine too but if you’re just targeting this and not truly measuring it can be slightly problematic for conversion. In this thread you’ll see more folks going lower as a lower ph lends to a smother hop profile comparatively

#### YeastFeast

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Pale beers should be targeted slightly lower. 5.3/5.4 is usually the ideal mash ph range for pale beers. Dark beers 5.4-5.5 is a good range because it helps mellow the roast and gives you a bit of wiggle room incase the malt is darker or lighter than advertised by the maltster.

People going for to 5.2 for mashing is fine too but if you’re just targeting this and not truly measuring it can be slightly problematic for conversion. In this thread you’ll see more folks going lower as a lower ph lends to a smother hop profile comparatively

#### murphyslaw

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
I'm looking for advice from those who have tried fermenting in kegs and adding dry hops to the serving keg before its flushed with fermentation co2. I think maybe it @VirginiaHops1 who said he did it this way?

My concern was that its sort of like opening your bag of hops and leaving them on the counter for a week before adding them to the beer. Curious if anyone has detected a loss of aroma due to that.

#### elproducto

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Are you folks adjusting Sparge Water pH? I've only ever done all my salts in the mash, but after listening to a recent Experimental Brewing podcast I'm wondering if I shouldn't try it.
I use brewfather so it would be easy enough.

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
Are you folks adjusting Sparge Water pH? I've only ever done all my salts in the mash, but after listening to a recent Experimental Brewing podcast I'm wondering if I shouldn't try it.
I use brewfather so it would be easy enough.
Absolutely adjust ph for sparge water. Most tannins are actually extracted in the sparge with improper ph adjustment.

You can still add your salts to just your mash if you choose but ph matters in sparge because the strike water is that much hotter

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#### bailey mountain brewer

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
+1 to that, absolutely adjust sparge ph.

#### Sbe2

##### Well-Known Member
First hazy in about a year. Brewing in FL has some challenges but it is doable. Liking the A24 so far!

HBT Supporter

#### Ulisses4677

##### Well-Known Member
First hazy in about a year. Brewing in FL has some challenges but it is doable. Liking the A24 so
Tell me about it I live in Vegas but I love brewing neipas.

#### Ulisses4677

##### Well-Known Member
This is my motueka el dorado double.

#### LumberZach

##### Well-Known Member
This is my motueka el dorado double.
Love the color and the haze. What did your grain bill look like and what yeast?

#### Ulisses4677

##### Well-Known Member
Pretty basic: 88% rahr 2 row, 10% flaked oats , 2 % golden naked oats mashed @ 156 boiled for 45 min. I used imperial A24 yeast .

#### Noob_Brewer

##### Well-Known Member
speaking of el dorado...I have some 2021 El dorado that Im planning on using focusing on tropical fruits and leaning towards the purported pineapple. Im thinking of using it with a touch of vic secret (for more trop fruit and pineapple) and mosaic and/or Citra in the dry hop. As a supporter hop, Ive always gotten solid tropical sweet fruit from mosaic, as a primary I get more berry (blueberry) from mosaic. So I think this could work well if going with el dorado/vic secret/mosaic in a 2:1:1 format. I haven't used el dorado in a little while though but from what I remember it has a somewhat high total oil content and can come across as candied sweet if using too much. What have ya'll gotten from el dorado recently? Just curious.

#### Dgallo

##### Instagram: bantam_brews
speaking of el dorado...I have some 2021 El dorado that Im planning on using focusing on tropical fruits and leaning towards the purported pineapple. Im thinking of using it with a touch of vic secret (for more trop fruit and pineapple) and mosaic and/or Citra in the dry hop. As a supporter hop, Ive always gotten solid tropical sweet fruit from mosaic, as a primary I get more berry (blueberry) from mosaic. So I think this could work well if going with el dorado/vic secret/mosaic in a 2:1:1 format. I haven't used el dorado in a little while though but from what I remember it has a somewhat high total oil content and can come across as candied sweet if using too much. What have ya'll gotten from el dorado recently? Just curious.
If your looking for pineapple specifically, I got pretty close to legit pineapple charavter with Bru-1, Vic Secrete, and Citra. But I would bet that eldorado could be added or sub’d in for Vic and it would work just as well I’d not better

#### Noob_Brewer

##### Well-Known Member
If your looking for pineapple specifically, I got pretty close to legit pineapple charavter with Bru-1, Vic Secrete, and Citra. But I would bet that eldorado could be added or sub’d in for Vic and it would work just as well I’d not better
Thanks. I do have some bru-1. Will prob come to finalized dry hop based on how they all smell. With your pineapple combo of bru-1:vs:Citra I’m assuming you went with something like a 2:1:2 ratio? Or even 3:1:1?

#### rnewt

##### Member
speaking of el dorado...I have some 2021 El dorado that Im planning on using focusing on tropical fruits and leaning towards the purported pineapple. Im thinking of using it with a touch of vic secret (for more trop fruit and pineapple) and mosaic and/or Citra in the dry hop. As a supporter hop, Ive always gotten solid tropical sweet fruit from mosaic, as a primary I get more berry (blueberry) from mosaic. So I think this could work well if going with el dorado/vic secret/mosaic in a 2:1:1 format. I haven't used el dorado in a little while though but from what I remember it has a somewhat high total oil content and can come across as candied sweet if using too much. What have ya'll gotten from el dorado recently? Just curious.

I should be kegging my Citra+El do+ Amarillo here in a week and will let you know!

#### beervoid

Thanks. I do have some bru-1. Will prob come to finalized dry hop based on how they all smell. With your pineapple combo of bru-1:vs:Citra I’m assuming you went with something like a 2:1:2 ratio? Or even 3:1:1?
From my experience you need quiet a bit of el dorado to get that distinguishing character out of it. Its not much of a pungent hop as citra or mosaic for example

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